Sweet Dreams, Sweetheart... Sleeper Cars!

[1X83Z]

one "sleeper" could be the mazda 323. i believe the GT-X was made in 89 and 90 (im probably wrong) but that car was always awd. it was known to handle 18 psi after a couple fuel modifications. they are sort of rare though....too bad.

It was made in 1988 and 1989. Still, good job for even knowing about it - it's slipped the minds of many and while it's not a stock sleeper it could probably stand some performance modifications. By the way, they also made a four-wheel drive version of the Protege sedan in 1990 and 1991.

So you think the SRT-4 is pretty good, M5Power?

The bang-for-your-buck is almost the best in the business, and it's the best ever performance value in its segment. It's one of few new cars at that price that I really like.

 

[iceburns288]

Well, John, the SRT4 makes 220+whp... stock. Torque is abundant. Mopar 3R kit gets 350whp... Dodge is playing Porsche's game with these numbers.

 

[1X83Z]

350whp on a front-drive car? Porsche - and I - would run and hide...

 

[blargonator]

please don't compare a FF car to a good ol' porsche <8- ) actually i quite like the SRT-4. pretty basic looks but seems and sounds like enough to be a fun car. thanks M5power for correcting me 👍 another that CAN be is the ford festiva after a engine swap but we are not talking about cars with engine swaps now are we? the Mitsubishi galant VR4 might not be common knowledge and those are known to be very quick (sometimes rally-) cars. the galant is not exactly a car people watch for so....just a thought


edit. by the time i posted someone else voiced their opinion on a ff porsche

 

[1X83Z]

The Galant VR-4 isn't that quick - I think 0-60 was about 7.3. It was a pretty cool car though.

 

[Duke]

'Sex on wheels', I believe, was the term used. I wouldn't go that far but I wholeheartedly back 'pretty cool' as a description.

 

[1X83Z]

'Sex on wheels', I believe, was the term used. I wouldn't go that far but I wholeheartedly back 'pretty cool' as a description.

Well then where were you back in 1991 when they came out!? They were so stoked about the thing only to find no-one actually wanted it. They were gone before the 1993 model year. I've seen exactly one in my whole life (or one since I knew what they were - which is no longer than a few years).

Really it wasn't too bad an idea - a Galant using the engine and drivetrain from the AWD turbo Eclipse/Talon/Laser of the time period. Slightly more practical too. It'd do well today, but there hasn't been an AWD Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Mitsubishi sedan since it. All the spoils for Subaru...

 

[Duke]

In 1991 I was driving a 1981 Supra that I got from my parents as a wedding present, fixed up with a new engine and interior.

 

[battle_stage]

I'd like to make my car a sleeper only if I had the budget for it.
I have a 1994 Honda Civic LX, which is completely stock. It's also an automatic. One thing I noticed with some well-budgeted sleepers, is they are TOO clean. It just doesn't look right. They stand out from the normal. It doesn't become all to surprising to me when they're also fast.

With my car, I wanna keep it just how it looks now, maybe even remove my hubcaps. No window tint, dings and scratches in the paint, car is dirty, full interior, still an automatic tranny. Just how it came stock. All except for the built K-series engine squeezed under the hood. I've decided I'd want an NA car, as to not give any clues to having a turbo with blow-off valve noises. I'd have a small diameter stock looking exhaust. The only clue that may give the car away as being modified would be the tire tread pattern if noticable, and a slight rumble coming from a beefy engine. But of course, given the car's appearence one would think it were just a loud beat up civic.

 

[1X83Z]

In 1991 I was driving a 1981 Supra that I got from my parents as a wedding present, fixed up with a new engine and interior.

Sounds like you were the VR-4's target market, actually.

 

[Goomba]

The bang-for-your-buck is almost the best in the business, and it's the best ever performance value in its segment. It's one of few new cars at that price that I really like.

What is the best bang for your buck? That damn Volvo you always rant and rave about?

Although it wouldn't be a total sleeper, I'd love to drop an STi block in the WRX and get it up around 300whp at altitude. Mainly just so I could see boom's shocked expression.

 

[TheCracker]

Really it wasn't too bad an idea - a Galant using the engine and drivetrain from the AWD turbo Eclipse/Talon/Laser of the time period. Slightly more practical too. It'd do well today, but there hasn't been an AWD Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Mitsubishi sedan since it. All the spoils for Subaru...

*coughs* ...Mitsubishi make the Lancer don't they?

 

[blargonator]

even with the lancer the lancer is mainly electronics. some would even say "its a bunch of clicks and whistles" i would take a STI anyday because its more of a real car and less of "kitt" the Evo. and STI dont really qualify though because its a car that just about any automotive enthusuaist should be able to spot. i thought the plain lancer was fwd anyways im just messing around but another one could be the old turbo volvos. oh and technically there is a AWD "honda" really an acura but that does not apply anywhere other than the u.s. the RL with its "Super handling all-wheel-drive" (SH-AWD) but it sounds like a very nice system. oh and does the sort of new awd G35 count for nissan?

 

[Revheadnz]

Two cars, both featured in New Zeland Performance Car magazine a few months ago.

A Honda Integra (not Type-R) which looked pretty much stock apart from bigger alloys and new low profile tire and the huge intercooler behind the front bar. The B18 is turbocharged and makes 330fwhp. It has run 12.21 on road tires and 11.7 on slicks.

A Nissan Stagea with a transplant RB26DETT tuned for 700hp. Everything exterior is stock except for some alloys and large exhaust. Runs 11.7 on road tires.

 

[blargonator]

integras are popular "tuner" cars over here in the U.S. but i was confused when you said integra. i was thinking DC5 integra also known as the RSX over here definetly a nice car but i would not call it a sleeper. i am going to go ahead and go out on a limb and say front mount intercoolers are usually kind of obvious. the only reason i figured out you were talking about a DC2 was because of the oh so popular B18 <8- ) speaking of the rsx my brother's friend has one and he already killed 2nd gear! haha he is lucky its still covered by the warranty! to think the transmission from 1977 should still be going strong while a transmission from a 2004 is already damaged

 

[1X83Z]

What is the best bang for your buck? That damn Volvo you always rant and rave about?

No idea - ask the me of three days ago. I'm fairly sure it is the cheapest on the market in terms of price per horsepower. Maybe I was talking about the new Mustang? Who knows.

*coughs* ...Mitsubishi make the Lancer don't they?

Damn you.

oh and technically there is a AWD "honda" really an acura but that does not apply anywhere other than the u.s. the RL with its "Super handling all-wheel-drive" (SH-AWD) but it sounds like a very nice system. oh and does the sort of new awd G35 count for nissan?

No - there was a reason I said that (because it's true). Evo just slipped my mind because the stock Lancer isn't AWD. You guys know Suzuki makes an AWD sedan too? That's actually why I left them off.

 

[Jay]

but there hasn't been an AWD Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Mitsubishi sedan since it. All the spoils for Subaru...

Also Nissan made a 4WD 4 door turbo Skyline (Nissan Skyline GTS4) but I dont think they sold out of Japan.

 

[Gordonfan24]

Would Sportec count? It's a tuning company, but they keep the cars semi-stock-looking; they lower the car/truck, and put some kind of aero lip on the front & rear. Here's a wallpaper I was using up until last week of a Sportec Audi RS4 Avant.
Then there's the Cayenne Turbo, and the 996 Turbo Coupe (& Cabrio) that they tuned from Porsche, which are quick to begin with, but...too much is never enough...

Here's a nice sleeper...a little heavy, but it'll still tear the rubber off! (You know I had to have a Chevy on here! )

1996 Chevy Impala SS

I have another sleeper pic, I just have to find it...


---EDIT---
GTPlanet's Urix owns this AWD Talon. Not technically sleeper, more of a tuner. But it is a racer, not a trailer (or drag ) queen. (Yes, I know I just said 'drag queen', but I mean that it can only go in a straight line.) Anyway, I added three pics of the car to the Attatchements. [Ignore the stock seats, because he said he wants to buy a roll cage before he gets taller race seats...]

 

[1X83Z]

Also Nissan made a 4WD 4 door turbo Skyline (Nissan Skyline GTS4) but I dont think they sold out of Japan.

I seem to have this problem continually. I'm an American, who was addressing an American. Therefore, I was referring to the American market. You called it out to show us your knowledge of Skylines, but you didn't mention that Mitsubishi's been selling an all-wheel drive Galant in various markets for years - but nor did I, because I wasn't trying to make a statement that encompasses every market segment.

Here's a nice sleeper...a little heavy, but it'll still tear the rubber off!

I would say it's not a sleeper for two reasons:

1. Everyone on Earth knows what it is and can identify it by the wheels and the unique emblems and body parts.
2. It does 0-60 in 7.1 seconds which makes it notably slower than the current Impala SS, which all the "Chevy people" dismiss as front-drive crap.

 

[Jay]

I seem to have this problem continually. I'm an American, who was addressing an American. Therefore, I was referring to the American market. You called it out to show us your knowledge of Skylines, but you didn't mention that Mitsubishi's been selling an all-wheel drive Galant in various markets for years - but nor did I, because I wasn't trying to make a statement that encompasses every market segment.

Yes I realise from other threads that you always refer to the US market, but I talk about world markets, well mainly Japanese and Australian as I know more about them then others. I actually saw one of those VR4 galants yesterday in black, I dont think ive seen a black one before.

Did the US market get the 4WD Nissan Bluebird SSS (about 1993-95 I think)?

 

[1X83Z]

Yes I realise from other threads that you always refer to the US market, but I talk about world markets, well mainly Japanese and Australian as I know more about them then others. I actually saw one of those VR4 galants yesterday in black, I dont think ive seen a black one before.

Did the US market get the 4WD Nissan Bluebird SSS (about 1995 I think)?

Not in 4WD trim. Actually by 1995 we weren't getting it or anything similar - I believe it may have been the Nissan Maxima of the mid to late 1980s, though. By 1995 our Nissan sedan lineup consisted of the front-drive Sentra, Altima, and Maxima - which is exactly how it continues ten years later.

EDIT: Checked - the 1995 Nissan Bluebird, I believe, was rebaded as the Nissan Altima here - at least for the mid-90s. Is it this?

Either way, we didn't get 4WD. In fact, the Nissan Altima didn't even have an engine option until 2002 (though it debuted in 1993) and it's always been front-drive.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Not in 4WD trim. Actually by 1995 we weren't getting it or anything similar - I believe it may have been the Nissan Maxima of the mid to late 1980s, though. By 1995 our Nissan sedan lineup consisted of the front-drive Sentra, Altima, and Maxima - which is exactly how it continues ten years later.

Why won't Nissan invest in a rear-drive sedan for the US market (and I'm not counting the G35/Q45/M45...)?

 

[ND4SPD]

there hasn't been an AWD Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Mitsubishi sedan since it. All the spoils for Subaru...

Aside from the lancer....Cough* Cough* G35x.......

 

[Jay]

Checked - the 1995 Nissan Bluebird, I believe, was rebaded as the Nissan Altima here - at least for the mid-90s. Is it this?

Yes thats the one, we got it as the Bluebird and then we had a limited run of turbocharged 4wd Bluebird SSS's.

 

[1X83Z]

Why won't Nissan invest in a rear-drive sedan for the US market (and I'm not counting the G35/Q45/M45...)?

They don't see a market. I've actually done research on the segment for Nissan - the groups of people interested in large rear-drive sedans are small, which is compounded by the fact that most interested parties only buy American anyway. Any rear-drive Japanese sedan has been aimed at the luxury market - BMW, rather than (for example) Buick. Buyers in this segment simply can't be stolen from the American brands in America - but as I said, it's not much of a loss because there aren't many buyers anyway.

Anyway - in my view, the segment is dead. I realise the Chrysler 300 has brought it 'back', but consider that truly. Years ago everything was a rear-drive large sedan - these days, there's precisely three - and only two if you consider the Mercury Grand Marquis to be the same vehicle as the Ford Crown Victoria, which is obviously a legitimate consideration. The 1990s were the death of rear-drive: minivans, Asian sports cars, and sedans.

Aside from the lancer....Cough* Cough* G35x.......

Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Mitsubishi haven't yet produced such a model - and I imagine they wouldn't be met with much contentment by Infiniti if they did (plus this was already addressed). Add Mazda to that list by the way.

And while we're discussing non-Subaru AWD Japanese sedans, I can think of only a handful to begin with:

- 05-_ Acura RL
- 04-_ Infiniti G35x
- 91-92 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
- 03-_ Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
- 02-_ Suzuki Aerio LX AWD (though, rumor has it that one night while the president of Suzuki North America was sleeping, one of these came into his bedroom, woke him up, and demanded to be cancelled)
- 88-91 Toyota Camry All-Trac

 

[1X83Z]

Yes thats the one, we got it as the Bluebird and then we had a limited run of turbocharged 4wd Bluebird SSS's.

Yeah, I can beat that: of the three domestic auto corporations, eight minivans are produced - all with pushrod engines of no more than 207 horsepower. HA!

Yeah, our market sucks. Actually the Altima was pretty nice - they had a top-spec GLE model from 1993 to 1997 which was a total deal - leather, sunroof, automatic (and in 1996 and 1997, a CD player) for like $15700 (which was the price of a mid-spec Corolla or Civic at the time, neither of which offered leather). Plus the Altima had 150 horsepower (the other Japanese companies couldn't come close) and even with the automatic it did 0-60 in 9.1 seconds. No turbocharged model though.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

They don't see a market.

Thanks for all the info! 👍

Why not a 4-door version of the 350Z (since large cars are out)? And before you mention the fact that Infiniti already has the G35 , Nissan already has two similar models in its range... the Altima and the Maxima (at least the V6 version of the Altima w/ 250-260hp). They both have about the same power, are priced around the same, and both have available manual or automatic transmissions.

 

[1X83Z]

Thanks for all the info! 👍

Why not a 4-door version of the 350Z (since large cars are out)? And before you mention the fact that Infiniti already has the G35 , Nissan already has two similar models in its range... the Altima and the Maxima (at least the V6 version of the Altima w/ 250-260hp). They both have about the same power, are priced around the same, and both have available manual or automatic transmissions.

Indeed - so wouldn't you say that the Maxima and Altima, with the exception of rear-wheel drive, are the Nissan equivalent to a four-door 350Z? I mean, Nissan's been calling the Maxima a four-door sports car since I was ten - maybe it's finally true!

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Indeed - so wouldn't you say that the Maxima and Altima, with the exception of rear-wheel drive, are the Nissan equivalent to a four-door 350Z? I mean, Nissan's been calling the Maxima a four-door sports car since I was ten - maybe it's finally true!

I guess you could say that, but wouldn't it make more sense to have at least one rear-drive, 350Z-based sedan (the ultimate sleeper car). I'm just throwing out ideas anyway... not saying the Maxima/Altima V6 aren't sports cars just because they have front-wheel drive. Remember the Datsun 810? It was rear-wheel drive!

I wasn't even alive when the Maxima was first introduced!

 

[1X83Z]

I guess you could say that, but wouldn't it make more sense to have at least one rear-drive, 350Z-based sedan (the ultimate sleeper car). I'm just throwing out ideas anyway... not saying the Maxima/Altima V6 aren't sports cars just because they have front-wheel drive. Remember the Datsun 810? It was rear-wheel drive!

Yeah, but the culture was totally different - I'm telling you: non-luxury rear-drive sedans died in the 1990s along with rear-drive minivans like the Ford Aerostar and Chevrolet Astro and rear-drive Asian sports cars like the 300ZX and Supra. It takes the Japanese a long time to get back and try again, even if all indications are that a certain market can be profitable (check out that AWD sedans thing - there's a ten-year gap in there), but I don't think the rear-drive Japanese non-premium sedan market has been profitable in recent automotive years (which I'll define as 1982-2005).

Still - I wouldn't mind a Nissan version of the G35, but ONLY AS A SUPPLEMENT TO THE ALTIMA AND MAXIMA, not a replacement - non-premium brands just can't sell rear-drive sedans as well as front-drivers, because front-drive cars have such a broad appeal while modern rear-drive sedans are pretty much performance-only.