Sweet Dreams, Sweetheart... Sleeper Cars!

[MrktMkr1986]

Yeah, but the culture was totally different - I'm telling you: non-luxury rear-drive sedans died in the 1990s along with rear-drive minivans like the Ford Aerostar and Chevrolet Astro and rear-drive Asian sports cars like the 300ZX and Supra. It takes the Japanese a long time to get back and try again, even if all indications are that a certain market can be profitable (check out that AWD sedans thing - there's a ten-year gap in there), but I don't think the rear-drive Japanese non-premium sedan market has been profitable in recent automotive years (which I'll define as 1982-2005).

That's unfortuante...

Still - I wouldn't mind a Nissan version of the G35, but ONLY AS A SUPPLEMENT TO THE ALTIMA AND MAXIMA, not a replacement - non-premium brands just can't sell rear-drive sedans as well as front-drivers, because front-drive cars have such a broad appeal while modern rear-drive sedans are pretty much performance-only.

Speaking of which, why do front-drive cars have such broad appeal? I much prefer a car with either rear or 4/all-wheel drive.

What are the target markets for the Altima/Maxima? They seem very similar to me (again, in 3.5-liter V6 format...).

 

[Goomba]

Speaking of which, why do front-drive cars have such broad appeal? I much prefer a car with either rear or 4/all-wheel drive.

I believe its because they're cheaper, more compact, a bit easier to drive and not as big a pain in the ass to drive through snow. What you (and I) perfer, isn't what everyone else does. AWD systems aren't installed on everything because they're more complex meaning more expensive to manufacture and to fix.

 

[BlueRex]

this classifies as a sleeper.......OMG!!!!!!!


Holy Fabrications Batman!

 

[MrktMkr1986]

this classifies as a sleeper.......OMG!!!!!!!


Holy Fabrications Batman!

2000 horsepower? Isn't there a limitation to the amount of power a dynomometer can measure?

 

[BlueRex]

sorry that site blows, that car is amazing though. They took down all the specs on the site. Those guys make some crazy stuff though. I'll see if i can find somemore info somewhere.

 

[BlueRex]

Nice sleeper For Sale on Ebay

 

[JohnBM01]

Oh, my stepdad loves that car, Gordonfan. It's perhaps the sickest ride you can have. It can run. And in case you're asking, it should have RWD, if I'm not mistaken, so no worries over FWD. Can you dig that?

 

[Revheadnz]

Nice sleeper For Sale on Ebay

Wow, that is such a nice WRX. 466whp! 👍

Another good sleeper would be the 1994-1997 Volvo 850R.

 

[blargonator]

fwd= work of satan <8- ) but about FWD being so popular....its because its as someone already said very basic. rwd cars just dont make sense for most people. just remember all of the people who drive minivans, hondas, geos, toyotas, and many domestics. i mean when is that 60 year old librarian going to need performace? never! he/she just needs to do as much damage as phisically possible with his/her sable. lol did you look at what that WRX was racing? i will put it this way, its something that would make you cry if it beat you from its ugly looks.

 

[High-Test]

The US did get the bluebird in 1968, as a two door, four door, or wagon, and it stayed until 1973, and they changed the name to stanza in the early 80s, and then it became the Altima. ...I think.

 

[1X83Z]

Speaking of which, why do front-drive cars have such broad appeal? I much prefer a car with either rear or 4/all-wheel drive.

As Goomba said...

It's mainly difficulty in driving, methinks - though with modern traction control systems as they are, that shouldn't be as much of an issue. Still, it's like diesel engines - no-one wants one, regardless of technological advance.

What are the target markets for the Altima/Maxima? They seem very similar to me (again, in 3.5-liter V6 format...).

The Altima is a much broader market - don't overlook the fact that, while there is a great V6 model, the base engine - and most popular Altima - is a 175-horsepower 2.5-liter four - a full 90 horsepower less than the Maxima. The Maxima isn't, to me, a "family" sedan - it's powerful and sporty and it's aimed at the same market as the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP - between mid and large, loaded with power and attitude. Meanwhile, while V6 Altimas encroach on Maxima space, most Maxima owners are mentally 'above' Altima owners and most Altima owners think Maxima owners are in their sixties - which isn't necessarily untrue.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

As Goomba said...

It's mainly difficulty in driving, methinks - though with modern traction control systems as they are, that shouldn't be as much of an issue. Still, it's like diesel engines - no-one wants one, regardless of technological advance.

The Altima is a much broader market - don't overlook the fact that, while there is a great V6 model, the base engine - and most popular Altima - is a 175-horsepower 2.5-liter four - a full 90 horsepower less than the Maxima. The Maxima isn't, to me, a "family" sedan - it's powerful and sporty and it's aimed at the same market as the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP - between mid and large, loaded with power and attitude. Meanwhile, while V6 Altimas encroach on Maxima space, most Maxima owners are mentally 'above' Altima owners and most Altima owners think Maxima owners are in their sixties - which isn't necessarily untrue.

Thanks for info. 👍

As for the driving difficulty, I disagree. It's all about throttle control. My Dad in his Volvo S80 could barely make it up a snowy hill even with all the traction control and stability control on. I think because the traction control keeps killing power, the driver isn't able to get the momentum needed to make it hills in the snow, so I really don't see the point in having it. On the other hand, all I did was feather the throttle in my rear-drive T-Bird and I slowly, but surely made it up the hill.

Personally, I prefer the Altimas "new" styling over the Maximas. You?

 

[DRIFT GOD]

What about this sleepy fellow? The 85/86 Ford LTD Lx, which was about 8/10ths Fox Mustang under the taxicab body.

LMFAO !!! that was my first car 15 years ago 👍

 

[Goomba]

As for the driving difficulty, I disagree. It's all about throttle control. My Dad in his Volvo S80 could barely make it up a snowy hill even with all the traction control and stability control on. I think because the traction control keeps killing power, the driver isn't able to get the momentum needed to make it hills in the snow, so I really don't see the point in having it. On the other hand, all I did was feather the throttle in my rear-drive T-Bird and I slowly, but surely made it up the hill.

Right. But the whole throttle control contributes to the difficulty of driving. Most people don't even know how to get their car out of the snow because they're either mashing the gas as hard as possible, or their front tires aren't straight forward. Usually a combination of the two.

It's also apparent in some of the new guys that bring their Corvettes out to autocrosses. It seems like it takes a lap or two to figure out 400 lb-ft of torque isn't the best thing to utilize to its full potential after coming out of a corner.

And thinking about it some more, it also applies to bad-weather conditions. RWD is waaaaaaaaay more likely to turn when someone gets on the gas a little too fast, as opposed to FWD.

As Goomba said...

It's mainly difficulty in driving, methinks - though with modern traction control systems as they are, that shouldn't be as much of an issue. Still, it's like diesel engines - no-one wants one, regardless of technological advance.

I don't think they're real popular because they probably add more to the cost of the car, as well as relatively new technology. Right?

 

[1X83Z]

On the other hand, all I did was feather the throttle in my rear-drive T-Bird and I slowly, but surely made it up the hill.

Indeed, though I've seen it both ways. It's got a lot to do with simply knowing how to drive in the snow - I was born and raised in Guam, a South Pacific island. I went to college at the University of Pennsylvania and, for the first time in my life, experienced driving on snow (and LOTS of snow) - it took a winter and a half to adjust to. Up here, if you've got northern-state or Canadian plates, you're a good snow driver - however I personally refuse to drive behind, in front of, or near someone with, say, Texas plates when the roads are snowy - they simply don't get throttle control and are prone to weird maneuvers and sliding.

Personally, I prefer the Altimas "new" styling over the Maximas. You?

I tend to avoid discussions about styling - frankly I think both cars are great for their class. (diplomatic answer of the day) Frankly the Maxima doesn't have the 'classic' good looks like the Altima does, but the Maxima's styling exudes its attitude, which is a necessary statement to make for a car like the Maxima. Do remember that in the last four years, all major Japanese Maxima competitors have either disappeared (Mazda Millenia, Mitsubishi Diamante) or moved to a different segment (Toyota Avalon) - Maxima has to distinguish itself somehow. I loved the 95-99 and 00-03 Maxima, but they weren't exciting enough on the outside - I've heard a lot of people call the 04-_ models ugly but, to me, push to shove, at least people are talking.

I don't think they're real popular because they probably add more to the cost of the car, as well as relatively new technology. Right?

Rear-wheel drive? Not sure that it adds more to cost of the car or that it's new technology - or were you referring to diesels?

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Indeed, though I've seen it both ways. It's got a lot to do with simply knowing how to drive in the snow - I was born and raised in Guam, a South Pacific island.

Cool! An islander just like my parents!

I went to college at the University of Pennsylvania and, for the first time in my life, experienced driving on snow (and LOTS of snow) - it took a winter and a half to adjust to. Up here, if you've got northern-state or Canadian plates, you're a good snow driver -

Thank you!

however I personally refuse to drive behind, in front of, or near someone with, say, Texas plates when the roads are snowy - they simply don't get throttle control and are prone to weird maneuvers and sliding.

Tell me about it. But even in NY there are still some idiot drivers that think because their vehicle has four-wheel drive means velcro traction...

I tend to avoid discussions about styling - frankly I think both cars are great for their class. (diplomatic answer of the day) Frankly the Maxima doesn't have the 'classic' good looks like the Altima does, but the Maxima's styling exudes its attitude, which is a necessary statement to make for a car like the Maxima. Do remember that in the last four years, all major Japanese Maxima competitors have either disappeared (Mazda Millenia, Mitsubishi Diamante) or moved to a different segment (Toyota Avalon) - Maxima has to distinguish itself somehow. I loved the 95-99 and 00-03 Maxima, but they weren't exciting enough on the outside - I've heard a lot of people call the 04-_ models ugly but, to me, push to shove, at least people are talking.

Speaking of Millenia (the S model with the supercharger is another sleeper car), why has Nissan ceased making cars with turbochargers or superchargers? Adding power to what would normally be an underpowered car via a turbo or supercharger would create the ULTIMATE sleeper car.

*Mustang SVO/T-Bird Turbo

 

[1X83Z]

Cool! An islander just like my parents!

Are your parents from Guam?

Or Long Island?

Thank you!

New Yorkers seem to rock in the snow - though people from Vermont seem to get on the best. I remember in Pennslyvania the rule was the further south they were from the worst they were - Mainers were the best and Floridians were awful, though so many people in Pennsylvania used to register their cars in Florida to escape Pennsylvania's high taxes that it wasn't always an absolute. Most southerners can't figure out snow though. Saw a guy from Hawaii the other day in a Rodeo - I wanted to roll down my window and yell 'Cold enough for ya?' but he was probably frostbitten.

Tell me about it. But even in NY there are still some idiot drivers that think because their vehicle has four-wheel drive means velcro traction...

Yeah - AWD improves cornering and acceleration, but not braking. Up here that's a mantra, it comes on as public service announcements and local groups take out ads with similar wording in newspapers. Doesn't seem to have much effect. Four months into winter and today was the nearest I came - went through a two-way stop right into the path of an oncoming Geo Prizm - eek!

Speaking of Millenia (the S model with the supercharger is another sleeper car), why has Nissan ceased making cars with turbochargers or superchargers? Adding power to what would normally be an underpowered car via a turbo or supercharger would create the ULTIMATE sleeper car.

Nissan does have a supercharged engine in the Frontier and Xterra. Otherwise, there's little point. In some vehicles - Armada, Pathfinder, and Quest come to mind - it's obvious why they don't supercharge or turbocharge, though I can think of at least one supercharged minivan and several turbocharged/supercharged SUVs. I'd love to see a turbo 350Z but aside that, they already lead their respective classes in power: Subaru had to turbo the Legacy to get 250hp; Altima gets it naturally-aspirated. Pontiac had to supercharge the Grand Prix to make 260hp; Maxima gets it naturally-aspirated. And Sentra's 'performance models' (SE-R and SE-R Spec V) are the most powerful vehicles in their class too, with 165 and 175 horsepower. And a turbo Murano, while cool, would steal sales from the Infiniti FX - another problem with turbocharging the Maxima and Altima (stealing sales from Infiniti).

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Are your parents from Guam?

Or Long Island?

Jamaica. Long Island?! I wish!

New Yorkers seem to rock in the snow - though people from Vermont seem to get on the best. I remember in Pennslyvania the rule was the further south they were from the worst they were - Mainers were the best and Floridians were awful, though so many people in Pennsylvania used to register their cars in Florida to escape Pennsylvania's high taxes that it wasn't always an absolute. Most southerners can't figure out snow though. Saw a guy from Hawaii the other day in a Rodeo - I wanted to roll down my window and yell 'Cold enough for ya?' but he was probably frostbitten.

I've lived in NY my whole life, and I still can't take the cold...

Yeah - AWD improves cornering and acceleration, but not braking. Up here that's a mantra, it comes on as public service announcements and local groups take out ads with similar wording in newspapers. Doesn't seem to have much effect. Four months into winter and today was the nearest I came - went through a two-way stop right into the path of an oncoming Geo Prizm - eek!

Thank goodness nothing happened though...

Nissan does have a supercharged engine in the Frontier and Xterra.

I forgot about those...

Otherwise, there's little point. In some vehicles - Armada, Pathfinder, and Quest come to mind - it's obvious why they don't supercharge or turbocharge, though I can think of at least one supercharged minivan and several turbocharged/supercharged SUVs.

You're right about that. They're powerful enough.

I'd love to see a turbo 350Z but aside that, they already lead their respective classes in power: Subaru had to turbo the Legacy to get 250hp; Altima gets it naturally-aspirated. Pontiac had to supercharge the Grand Prix to make 260hp; Maxima gets it naturally-aspirated. And Sentra's 'performance models' (SE-R and SE-R Spec V) are the most powerful vehicles in their class too, with 165 and 175 horsepower. And a turbo Murano, while cool, would steal sales from the Infiniti FX - another problem with turbocharging the Maxima and Altima (stealing sales from Infiniti).

Come to think of it, a turbo 350Z would be nice. 350-400 horsepower perhaps? But then that's what the possibly upcoming 2007 Skyline is for.

As far as stealing sales is concerned, I completely understand. Not only did they do the same thing with my car, they did the same thing with the Camaro & Corvette. The T-Bird Turbo Coupe (sleeper car!) was quoted as having 190hp yet the Mustang SVO (sleeper car!) with the same exact engine was quoted as having 205hp. The '02 Camaro Z28 310hp, yet the Corvette with the exact same engine is rated at 350hp.

 

[Goomba]

Rear-wheel drive? Not sure that it adds more to cost of the car or that it's new technology - or were you referring to diesels?

Er, the traction control.

 

[blargonator]

we have some bad drivers in my area. one person whom i will refer to as "Dingus kahn". Dingus kahn lives in my area. Dingus has a integra GSR. it snows, Dingus plows into a curb and sign smashing the front end of his car long story short....one crappy driver off the road for a little while.

 

[1X83Z]

Er, the traction control.

Ah - well at this point, pretty much everything's using some form of traction aid. GM offers it pretty much across the board with anti-lock brakes. But there's good traction control and bad traction control - 4-wheel ABS, brake assist, antiskid system, traction control, hill descent control - then you have to break it down to each specific manufacturer's ideas, like Subaru's VDC which does seem to be slightly different from Lexus's VSC.

Not sure where I'm going with that. Point is, traction control can be damn cheap to install - I'm thinking of the most basic Chrysler 300 where it's just $775, including ABS.

 

[blargonator]

ABS is pretty much basic on every car right? or does it have to be on every car 1992 and up? i just know my porsche does not have power steering, windows, definetely not traction control, or ABS. Its a 77 924 aka the poor mans porsche so not much to expect. Can we nominate my dead 95 BHP 4 speed 924 as a honarary sleeper because right now that is all she can do, or atleast until we get the fuel pump relay <8- ) oh yeah the chrysler 300 is rwd right? and the magnum too (i know there is a awd version too)?

 

[1X83Z]

ABS is pretty much basic on every car right? or does it have to be on every car 1992 and up?

I believe European law makes anti-lock braking standard. In the United States, the following vehicles do not have ABS standard:

- Buick Century
- Buick Lacrosse
- Buick Rendezvous
- Chevrolet Aveo
- Chevrolet Cavalier
- Chevrolet Cobalt
- Chevrolet Equinox
- Chevrolet Impala
- Chevrolet Malibu
- Chevrolet Monte Carlo
- Chevrolet Venture Plus
- Chrysler 300
- Chrysler PT Cruiser
- Chrysler Sebring
- Chrysler Town & Country
- Dodge Caravan
- Dodge Dakota (rear only)
- Dodge Magnum
- Dodge Neon
- Dodge Ram
- Dodge Stratus
- Ford Focus
- Ford Taurus
- Honda Civic
- Honda CR-V
- Honda Element
- Hyundai Accent
- Hyundai Elantra
- Hyundai Santa Fe
- Hyundai Sonata
- Hyundai Tiburon
- Jeep Liberty
- Jeep Wrangler
- Kia Optima
- Kia Rio
- Kia Sedona
- Kia Sorento
- Kia Spectra
- Mazda 3
- Mazda Miata
- Mercury Sable
- Mitsubishi Eclipse
- Mitsubishi Endeavor
- Mitsubishi Galant
- Mitsubishi Lancer
- Mitsubishi Montero
- Mitsubishi Outlander
- Nissan Altima
- Nissan Sentra
- Pontiac Aztek
- Pontiac G6
- Pontiac Grand Prix
- Pontiac Montana
- Pontiac Sunfire
- Pontiac Vibe
- Saturn Ion
- Saturn Vue
- Suzuki Aerio
- Suzuki Forenza
- Suzuki Reno
- Suzuki Verona
- Suzuki XL-7
- Toyota Celica
- Toyota Corolla
- Toyota Echo
- Toyota Matrix

ABS is available on all but a handful of those cars, however, and almost always under $1000 (usually it's around $500).

oh yeah the chrysler 300 is rwd right? and the magnum too (i know there is a awd version too)?

Chrysler 300 base = RWD, 190hp 2.7 V6, $23300
Chrysler 300 Touring = RWD or AWD, 250hp 3.5 V6, $27100 RWD or $29400 AWD
Chrysler 300C = RWD or AWD, 340hp 5.7 V8, $32900 RWD or $34200 AWD

Dodge Magnum SE = RWD, 190hp 2.7 V6, $21900
Dodge Magnum SXT = AWD, 250hp 3.5 V6, $27900
Dodge Magnum RT = RWD or AWD, 340hp 5.7 V8, $29400 RWD or $31400 AWD

Basically the only difference between the two is the availability of AWD with the 3.5-liter V6; it's standard on the Dodge while it's optional on the Chrysler.

 

[PublicSecrecy]

GMC Cyclone. Maaad sleeper. Unless I said that already.

 

[1X83Z]

GMC Cyclone. Maaad sleeper. Unless I said that already.

It's "Syclone" and I've begun questioning the sleeper value of it and the SUV version, the GMC Typhoon, which I'm buying TODAY!

I'm kind of excited about that one.

Anyway - most people know about the Syclone and Typhoon at this point - word of mouth has sort of killed its sleeper status.

 

[Gordonfan24]

Another sleeper...Jay Leno's 1955 Buick Roadmaster

Runs 11s in the 1/4 mile - with 4 guys in it!
620hp - 572c.i. Big-block
Corvette C4 & C5 independent suspensions
Stock body
Stock-looking paint
Custom retro-Buick 17" wheels

Great all-around resto-mod! It's probably worth around $110,000+ when you think about it. To read more about it, click here.

 

[Revheadnz]

That Buick is incredible! Jay Leno has a thing for hugely powerful vehicles doesn't he.

 

[McLaren]

He owns a huge collection of cars.

F1, Diablo SV, more.

 

[blargonator]

lol yeah he has the coolest cars. he obviously owns a Grand national (i think its a GNX) but anyways did you guys ever see the Tim allen VS. Jay leno burnout contest? long burnout short tim allen > Jay leno

 

[PublicSecrecy]

Tim Allen > Jay Leno? That's strange because he got his but kicked by Bob Villa in one episode, and I'd've thought that Jay Leno is leagues ahead of Villa.