Tactile Info & Buyers Guide / Comparisons / Opinions - Work In Progress

  • Thread starter Mr Latte
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Sorry to hear of your issues...

Has the amp been getting good ventilation, if so perhaps it has a fault and the best thing you can do is return it for a replacement. * The amp has some form of GAIN setting what had you it set at?

The tactile units you have look similar to the Reckhorn models and yes your amp is seemingly not meeting the required 4ohm wattage specs listed. The listed specs are quite a bit beyond your 100w per channel requirements so it is rather odd. Do understand though that tactile, especially with a source like Simvibe is continuously operating and hard on amplifiers.

I know that several users over on ISR forums promote these amps and yes they come with differing wattages. Yours being one of the more higher rated models. Personally though I am dubious to what the actual quality of amps like these really is, when they list rather high distortion levels and are very cheap compared to major brands.

Points to always take note of which I mentioned in the guide, listed specs for amps are so often part marketing or misleading. We may not know if it is a peak performance of the units or if the listed specs were conditional to set test parameters. Just because a wattage can be obtained does not mean it operates continuously upto such a rating and work to the listed spec continuously in all "real world scenarios".

TEST
Try one tactile unit at max volume to see if it runs for a long period no problems or if the amp still cuts out. Then repeat the same test but on the other channel. Come back and let us know
 
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Hi!
Thank you very much for trying to help!
No gain settings on this. Took apart the amp and now the PSU too, seems like quality parts and soldering everywhere, but i'm no electrician...
Redid the cables (used shorted ones 0.5m 1.5), installed equalizer apo, added double low pass filter (can't find out how to cut off...) at 100hz.
Tried one speaker on both L and R, onboard realtek audio at 50/100, -4db preamp in equalizer apo. Turned the volume knob 100%. Tried with some bass test audio from youtube (ye i know i'm noob, btw how do you test these?), and it worked just fine, even more aggressive than yesterday.
Then the strange thing, i connected two shakers, and it worked with the volume all the way up too... I may used 100 on my onboard audio, and set no low pass filter yesterday...

Is the onboard audio supposed to be all the way up too?
I think i might did my cabling wrong yesterday, and the cable touched the metal part of the shaker... Don't really know.
Now the shakers get very hot, and the amp stays really cool, so it seems like the amp is just fine...
I didn't tried with the cables i used yesterday (I need 3m for my rig), will try with those tomorrow. Should I use wider wire size than 1.5mm?
Thanks!
 
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Well good to see you get a result.

Cable thickness, you should use 12-14 gauge cabling for tactile and the length you need.
The LPF might effect how well the units handle the lower bass frequencies. If you reduce the working range then the tactile has less frequencies effecting what it does and this might help with the overheating.
If you increase the output signal from PC then the amp should require a bit less volume
If using Simvibe you should not be using any EQ or other sound modification inc bass boost at the PC processing/output stage
 
Hi!

Just to report back, all is well now. Tweaked the SimVibe effects in AC for hours (days?:)), and now I'm very satisfied with this setup. No bottoming out, no overload of the amp, no noticeable fade over a long race. The little SMSL can indeed drive drive those two sinustec shakers. I bolted them to the left and right back side of my steel tube rig, and the effects are plenty enough for me. It's so good, i'm considering not setting the front side up in the near future... Disclaimer: The rig is on wheels, and very sturdy, nearly zero effects transfering to the floor.

The things which would have saved me a tons of hours:
Cabling DO matters
Set PC sound to 100% and disable all realtek, and in my case freaking Sound Blaster effects. This is a must... Then fine tune the amp...

Thanks for the help!
 
Thats good news...
Although I would certainly encourage you to go for full chassis and having the immersion also in pedals. It will increase the enjoyment.

What can you report about AC and Simvibe, do you have favourite effects,track or car that you particularly like?
 
This is the settings I'm using for now:

The front and rear stuff are equally configured, only showing the rear ones. On the engine vibration i'm using tone and volume smoothing, it won't cut off that hard. Another thing is, these shakers don't like the low (10-30) sound settings, found the sweetspot of starting them around 50 or so. They shake very hard on those freqs, but the transfer to higher hz vibrates the whole setup in a bad way around 40-45 (sorry, cant describe it better).
I used the Nordschleife with the Lotus 49 as baseline for configuration. I like this combo very much, and the combined effects are fantastic. I can feel every bumb, the car lifting off, kerbs, weight transfer etc... No particular favorite effect, have to balance a couple of them together.
To sum it together, it well worth the money, and using the rig without it feels empty and boring...
 
Like reading of when people experience tactile and are enjoying it, yes going back to having none is quickly missed.

Not surprised your shakers struggle with the lower Hz in recreating the really deep energy, tbh you need to go to something like the BK Advance or fullsize LFE to really get good impact performance much below 40Hz.

Would be interested on your feedback on a little test or if you try doing some with various TONES to help you feel the differences with your own tactile/cockpit. Get familiar with different tones for instance one of your effects from 65Hz-105hz what is going on with those frequencies? You would need to change the output from Simvibe card to the PC speaker audio and also to USE THIS . (Use the sweep generator on the left with a Sine wave.)

Simvibe is missing a decent test feature that allows a user to do this kind of thing from within or feel an effect with the settings you have set for it. Unfortunately not even possible to be able operate between two different values eg 50-65Hz only and feel how your units respond. Different tactile units may vary in their peak performance like the 40-45Hz you mention. The upper upper 50Hz to upper 60Hz on some units can feel a bit annoying too if at high volume output as they transition out of low to mid bass.

What I suppose is possible is finding the Hz you like your tactile to perform with if doing the audio TONE tests and take note of frequencies you find annoying or uncomfortable. Try testing from 20Hz -125hz and see what you feel between 20-40 40-60 60-90 and 90-125hz you might be surprised....

I would expect it is possible for a user to create effects to operate within Hz ranges that suit their preference or indeed avoid specific frequencies altogether if they preferred. If you wanted to consider possibly skipping a small range like say the 40-46Hz frequencies then use Simvibe rule settings for effects to work around them. Or I assume it would also be possible to set a rule to operate from example: 40-46Hz with a reduced intensity and then continue the effect with a secondary one using the rest of the gradual tones you want and perhaps at a stronger or different intensity. In essence this would be like creating an EQ reduction for specific frequencies if not totally avoiding them for fine tuning. I have not read of people trying to do this within Simvibe but is something I do not see as cant be done neither.

Not like me to complicate things eh (lol) :)
 
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Someone had to do it in the end. :)
Whats the old saying, if you want summit done right......


Well I wanted to do this upon Simvibes release back in around 2012, only 4 years too late.
Soon proper testing can begin to put towards getting the very most out of this terrific software.

I have discovered much already on how/what certain things do...

 
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Just received two of these Dayton Audio Bass Shakers which they're still on discount for USD $29.90 each. Haven't set them up yet which they'll be made permanently onto my rig and exclusively for Simvibe extensions mode (Seat + Pedals). Not expecting much from these as I have pretty low budget/expectations setup and just really need that little bit more of immersion. Never own Auras but hopefully these are just as good. Perhaps @Mr Latte might get one some day and provide feedback since it's so cheap. haha :lol:

My original ADX Maximus bass transducer has been transferred to the bottom of my couch powered by SMSL SA-98E (plus little cheap Crossover Eq. between source and amp. input) and has been in use everyday for the last 7 months. I have it setup at around 90Hz-110Hz and while it adds depth to the experience when watching free TV, majority of the TV programmes (at least in Australia) are not very subwoofer/bass friendly if that makes sense? Seems like these producers are not bothered at all with the audio mixing.

However, you will definitely enjoy the added rumbling in most movies where sound editing is just as important as the film editing itself. Gaming is also enjoyable like movies, not great. Maybe because I don't play enough FPS with lots of explosions but overall does add a lot more especially when you had to put on your headphones.

Lastly listening to music or watching music videos is the most enjoyable of all. My favourite pastime as a couch potato is complete.
 
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For your couch why not setup a velcro or magnetic mounting solution to easily let you switch between cockpit/sofa? Are you using sub out or L/R.

Your comment strikes a memory...

Think this was 4 Years ago before my year or so absence. I did some testing with them to enhance engine revs and put them in a sponge type pocket shoved right up under the seats covering to help reduce the noise. I suppose using them a bit like a external tweeter in a car audio system.



I read of some peoples reports in how much they enjoy the little Daytons and yes its great that they are so cheap. It helps get people into the whole thing in just having/experiencing the immersion aspect I suppose.

Unfortunately I bought a few from PE around the same time as buying the fullsize LFE. When realising the power and benefits of those compared to all the others it changed my ideas. Although it was the above image/testing that started my experimenting of more than one unit on a channel for a combined performance potential.

@Soulfresh_ACV I would appreciate if you download/try the following and report on what frequencies work well with the ADX/Daytons. This will help me on the investigation I am doing regards Simvibe towards best usage of the frequency range or perhaps what effects should have priority for different tactile.

It could help you perhaps tune the ADX also mate if you have not done such before? As for music, yeah really enjoy music with mine too and when the subs are rocking.

HERE
I really would like to know how the ADX/PUC perform from 10Hz-130Hz and what frequencies they feel good with and bad/odd or lacking with.
 
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Hardware Setup
SMSL SA-98E amp. @ 50% Vol. (Direct Line-Out from PC to amp)
Crossover Eq. @ 130–135Hz approx.

Audio SweepGen
Test FQ range: 10–130Hz | Waveform: Sine | Sweep Mode: Log | Sweep Speed: Manual | Output Lvl: 0

* Strength of vibration = 1-5 (1 lowest)

ADX Maximus

This is mounted onto the center wooden frame under my couch, I've tested 7-8 times and not sure whether the range is good or not. But nonetheless a bit surprised of the usable range with this budget setup. Like you said, this has definitely given me better idea of the FQ. range to use in Simvibe if ever I do so. For instance, 10–27Hz will be ideal for engine rev. as it felt just like engine vibration. 30–36Hz for impacts (and it also felt like a massage chair. Helps with blood circulation :lol:)

Results
86–130Hz = 1
61–85Hz = 2
51–60Hz = 3
39–50Hz = 4
31–38Hz = 5 (33–35Hz Peak range)
28–30Hz = 4
25–27Hz = 3
22–24Hz = 2
18–21Hz = 1
11–17Hz = 0 (Barely felt any vibration and completely dropped off at 10Hz)


Dayton Audio Bass Shakers

I haven't mounted like the ADX so I will refrain from a direct comparison. However, without doing a direct comparison of the two, with the same hardware/software setup, I managed to at least differentiated the FQ. range by placing it on carpet and sitting top of it with a bean bag ottoman. Roughly tested it around 7–10 times. The Dayton seems to have more characteristics at the higher FQ. range and peak at different range (around 54–59Hz).

Results
111–130Hz = 1
90–110Hz = 2
74–87Hz = 3
66–73Hz = 4
51–65Hz = 5 (54–59Hz Peak range)
37–50Hz = 4
24–36Hz = 3
22–23Hz = 2
17–21Hz = 1
13–16Hz = 0 (Barely felt any vibration and completely dropped off at 12Hz)



@Mr Latte Apologies for the inconclusive (quite possibly unreliable) findings. Thoughts? :P
 
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This is VERY much welcomed, EXCELLENT!!!!
Thank you friend I will look over and bring future response...

Your reward is below:


Like the 1-5 scale it is crucial we find peoples 1-5 and in particular the 3-5 scores from like you did multiple tests. Maybe not focus too much yet on what roles/effects for Simvibe that could be looked at later but glad it did help give you a better idea.

I hope it encourages others to follow your format and do the same...
Aura Pro & BK Mini owners

@Carson79 this is you mission should you choose to accept it (lol) :)


Edit:
@Soulfresh_ACV it would be great if you can later do a more direct comparison to then rate the performance differences or benefits you find with the bigger ADX. The lowest frequencies below 20Hz will also be subject to amplifier distortion.
 
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Looking at building a simvibe system for iRacing with these components:

1 x Behringer iNuke / NU1000 DSP Amplifier
2 x ButtKicker BK-MINI-LFE

What cabling do I need to plug all this together? Other items I need? Links to parts-express.com would be great :)

Thanks,
Joe
 
I just got the same setup. I'm not using Simvibe, however I have the audio connected from my on-board sound card via optical to my Denon Receiver. I then have an RCA splitter from the Sub out of the receiver going to the sub and the iNuke NU1000DSP with an Neutrik RCA to XLR connector on Channel A. I then have several Neutrik SpeakON NL2FX connectors from Output A and B to my Buttkicker BK-Mini-LFE's on my RSeat RS1 frame.

I'm also using a Neutrik SpeakON coupler NL4MMX between the BK-Mini-LFE with SpeakOn's and the NU1000DSP SpeakON connectors.

Looks like this:

Buttkicker BK-Mini-LFE -> SpeakON NL2FX -> SpeakON Coupler NL4MMX -> SpeakON NL2FX -> 12AWG Speaker Cable -> SpeakON NL2FX -> iNuke NU1000DSP

Now the only challenge is setting it up and learning to use the DSP
 
How do we use the iNuke NU1000DSP DSP? What do all the menu options mean? What are the recommended ranges for a Buttkicker BK-Mini-LFE?

I got it working but have no idea wtf i'm doing :D
 
hyp36rmax
How do we use the iNuke NU1000DSP DSP? What do all the menu options mean? What are the recommended ranges for a Buttkicker BK-Mini-LFE?

I got it working but have no idea wtf i'm doing :D
Click to expand...

Well I can link you another thread/post that helped me out with the DSP settings, check out the last few pages and post 837
I would just suggest reading through this thread and the one linked as there's lots of other handy tips
 
Sorry guys not been bothering that much on forums here lately.
Thanks to those for mentioning past help...

During a discussion with a guy on the official forums querying how to get good results from the large kerbs on Silverstone. I wanted to try and help but was curious as had not done much testing yet in AC.

Here is my latest work towards my Simvibe journey.
(Still a noob with videos and only using HD530 so restricted for good screen capture)

How do the various bumps operate compared to suspension?


How does suspension operate differently compared to the general bumps/textures/surges etc?


Highlighting frequencies used by engine revs and showing (peak hold) examples to determine strongest frequencies


I have a thread on the official Simvibe forums for discussing these if anyone is wanting to.
 
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Just a quick note guys and to anyone that has been interested in tactile or combined with Simvibe operation...

All my own future tests regards Simvibe will be on the SimXperience official forums.
On-going report is happening as I look into various effects but will do so in much more depth than others have in the past.
 
Hi Mr Latte,

I am new to this and am looking for any improvements to my plan on setting up my rig.
I currently have a GT Omega Pro RS9 rig. Due to budget constraints I have to do this in stages over time. With that in mind, here is my plan.
Do you have any suggestions or see any issues that I might be missing.

Thanks for all you do


Stage 1 purchase

Simvibe software

1 iNuke 1000DSP amp

2 Buttkicker Mini LFE transducers

1 Hosa CMP-159 3.5 mm TRS to Dual 1/4 inch TS Stereo Breakout Cable, 10 feet.
This will go from the sound card to inuke A/B inputs

2- Technical Pro CBS1225 25' Banana Plug to Speakon Speaker Cable, 12 Gauge.
These will go from the inuke speakon outputs to the Minis inputs. I plan on cutting off the bananna plugs which will not fit the minis and adding 2 separate bananna plugs to connect to the them.

The setup would be extension mode with the mini's under the seat and under the pedals.

Stage 2 purchase

1- iNuke 1000DSP amp

2- Buttkicker Advanced transducers

1- Hosa CMP-159 3.5 mm TRS to Dual 1/4 inch TS Stereo Breakout Cable, 10 feet.
This will go from sound card to inuke A/B inputs

2- Technical Pro CBS1225 25' Banana Plug to Speakon Speaker Cable, 12 Gauge.
These will go from the inuke Speakon outputs to the Buttkickers. I plan on cutting off the bananna plugs which will not fit them and adding 2 separate bananna plug ends to connect to the Buttkickers inputs.

I plan on changing to Chassis mode here with the transducers placed on the four corner of the rig. The two advanced shakers in the rear and the two minis on the front.
 
Hi that all seems rather good, seems youve done some homework already... :)

You could perhaps compare prices of cables going with 3.5mm-XLR than the 1/4 inch but either will work. Also using Amp Out Speakon Male - Speakon Male - Speakon Coupler - Speakon Male on the Buttkickers. Using these makes it easy to disconnect the Buttkickers short cable (always turn off amp) if you ever need to move the cockpit etc.

I believe you will need the DSP3000 model for dual Advance Buttkickers as the wattages Behringer state are not the true RMS output.

Personally I would suggest configuring the seat with L/R units rather than one on pedals/seat. The reason for this being you will get nice stereo tactile from "suspension bumps" (in titles that support them) and the tactile will easily be felt in your pedals with your metal rig.

I would recommend two metal plates (possibly 4mm steel) cut to suitable size/shape that connect direct to the seat rails and you can bolt the tactile onto. If possible, avoid having a single wooden board or metal plate across the whole seat uprights as two indivdual ones will help maintain the individual effects better. These will also deliver direct tactile across the metal internal construction within the seat and up through the recline mechanisim as well.

If your not on concrete or solid tile floor you may need to consider rubber isolators (eg wooden floor upstairs) as the vibrations will travel.

Hope its some help...
 
Mr Latte
Hi that all seems rather good, seems youve done some homework already... :)

You could perhaps compare prices of cables going with 3.5mm-XLR than the 1/4 inch but either will work. Also using Amp Out Speakon Male - Speakon Male - Speakon Coupler - Speakon Male on the Buttkickers. Using these makes it easy to disconnect the Buttkickers short cable (always turn off amp) if you ever need to move the cockpit etc.

I believe you will need the DSP3000 model for dual Advance Buttkickers as the wattages Behringer state are not the true RMS output.

Personally I would suggest configuring the seat with L/R units rather than one on pedals/seat. The reason for this being you will get nice stereo tactile from "suspension bumps" (in titles that support them) and the tactile will easily be felt in your pedals with your metal rig.

I would recommend two metal plates (possibly 4mm steel) cut to suitable size/shape that connect direct to the seat rails and you can bolt the tactile onto. If possible, avoid having a single wooden board or metal plate across the whole seat uprights as two indivdual ones will help maintain the individual effects better. These will also deliver direct tactile across the metal internal construction within the seat and up through the recline mechanisim as well.

If your not on concrete or solid tile floor you may need to consider rubber isolators (eg wooden floor upstairs) as the vibrations will travel.

Hope its some help...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick reply.
You make some very good suggestions and I will be sure to follow them.

When I get the metal plates, would steel be better than aluminum or vice versa?

Stage 1..
I get what you are saying about going L/R instead of pedals/seat. I assume you would want me to set the mode to chassis instead of extension

Stage 2 - At this point would it make sense to move the minis to the front edges of the frame and install the Advance Buttkickers where the minis were? Or would you suggest another placement of the four transducers. After some further research today, I read that maybe attaching to the frame corners, might not be the best use of four transducers.

Sorry for all the questions, but I really want to do this right the first time......
 
dpj463
Thanks for the quick reply.
You make some very good suggestions and I will be sure to follow them.

When I get the metal plates, would steel be better than aluminium or vice versa?

Stage 1..
I get what you are saying about going L/R instead of pedals/seat. I assume you would want me to set the mode to chassis instead of extension

Stage 2 - At this point would it make sense to move the minis to the front edges of the frame and install the Advance Buttkickers where the minis were? Or would you suggest another placement of the four transducers. After some further research today, I read that maybe attaching to the frame corners, might not be the best use of four transducers.

Sorry for all the questions, but I really want to do this right the first time......
Click to expand...


Hey no probs....
Aluminium may be fine if thick but can I suppose be shaped and worked with. I have seen people use Aluminium on Playseats for individual L/R tactile platforms connected to the seats uprights and runner sections. My concern is having tinny audible vibration noise becoming an issue? Trying more than one solution is the only way to know which is better.

Stage 1
Yes go with CM in Simvibe but actually connect up the seat as "Front channels" if only using two for now.
Sounds weird but I believe the stereo separation may work better for the front channels. Keep Windows in QUAD surround mode as it will make it easier for Stage 2 later. You want to avoid the metal making a clattering or pinging sound. A more solid metal should be better, you could also consider MDF in 18mm or 24mm thickness but with your rig being metal I would stick with the same. It need securely attached as well with tight nut/bolts. Perhaps consider some neoprene rubber sheet both top/bottom of the metal plate that can be cut to size and stuck to the metal surface between the Buttkicker. See ebay its not expensive and you should find both the metal plating and neoprene depending on your location?


Stage 2
Moving the mini up front for the pedals will be fine.
If it was my own build I would be considering to isolate the pedal platform from the main cockpit frame. Simply because the the power of the Advance units could interfere with the fronts more than desired. Really experimentation is key to discovering such issues and your own preferences also.

Having rubber isolators at the front base section with maybe some more of that neoprene rubber sheet may help keep the rear tactile from effecting the front but also help maintain better, the tactile in the pedals from the Mini units attached.

You could I suppose do similar to the seat, have two metal plates for each side of the pedals to bolt them to and also attach the Mini units on. It will take some thought and planning but that's part of the fun/challenge. Pedal section is so small that both units vibrations will easily combine into the pedal heel and main section. I personally would want to try and maximise the stereo separation as best possible.

Issue Of Placement?
Tactile that is in more direct contact with the seat/pedals will allow the user to get the strongest feeling from it than say further away on corners. Personally I feel the only main issue this brings is that the time for the tactile to travel from placement of installation to desired location is practical nil. The Simvibe software so far does not offer the ability to add a slight millisecond delay (eg. 1-2ms) to accommodate various builds with different tactile installations.

I am not saying this is an issue but such could help separate better the scale/impression between the front and rear wheels. You can however apply "delay" via the inuke dsp as it supports a hardware delay value that you can set but again this will be personal preference and if you feel you need it or if you even like it.

Do brace yourself for complications/hassle.
All this could take a bit of patience/trial and error and thats before you start learning how Simvibe effects and settings operate. I am learning quite a lot and certainly seeking to get advanced understanding with it. The simple reason my own build has always been about taking it to the extremes but doing that requires knowing how to manually configure effects/settings in the best ways.


Some previous testing, more on my YT channel from time to time.
 
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Great suggestions, can't wait to get started on this journey. When I finally get the cash to dive in, I will let you know how things are going.
Again, Thanks for all your help. This is a great forum and your posts are very helpful.
 
dpj463
Great suggestions, can't wait to get started on this journey. When I finally get the cash to dive in, I will let you know how things are going.
Again, Thanks for all your help. This is a great forum and your posts are very helpful.
Click to expand...


Made plenty of mistakes in the past myself, although wish their were more people eager to do joint testing and eperimenting with it. I guess I am a rather odd and some people dont get my over the top ideas for my own build. Many people that have it, I think just settle with decent settings and enjoy thier racing.

Part of the hobby for me is testing for hours tweaking or trying different configurations to learn new things or improve my own settings.

Take care...
 
Hi Mr Latte, I'm thinking of buying the Behringer DSM1000 with two mini LFE's would it be possible to connect this setup to an Xbox one as the X1 doesn't have a phono socket only optical in and out, also which would be best one single BK advance or two mini's as I am a bit restricted for space as I have a GT Omega Office chair. would the advance rattle the chair to pieces? Many Thanks Greg
 
Hi @Greg Garfoot
You may find on ebay/amazon etc a cheap solution that lets you connect HDMI and bypass the image/sound and hdmi cable but also enables analogue audio output to be used on an amp for the Buttkickers.

Like this

Can you take some photos of the underside of the chair. I am curious to see if it used a standard seat rail like in a real car that the office/base attaches to. Just how BADDASS do you want this to be? Really may depend much you want to spend and where abouts do you live (currency)?

You should have no real problems incorporating an Advance but I would REALLY recommend upping the budget that bit more for the Fullsize LFE.

Wait till you feel games like H3/GOW/BF1 with one of those
 
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Hi Mr Latte, I will take some photo's tomorrow. If I was to fit a fullsize LFE would it matter if the unit was right at the back of the seat.Would a single LFE be better than two mini LFE's. I'm going to have fit some sort of plate in between the seat and the recliner mechanism not sure if this should be made from steel or MDF ps I'm also considering going for the DSM3000 just so it has a little more grunt. Thanks again for your input, it's really appreciated. I'm in the uk, Norfolk.
 

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