Teachers with guns ?

[Danoff]

With this scenario, there is just 1 thing that may raise a question. What if ... there were another shooting at a school where there was a firearm held up in a locksafe. Where is the locksafe located ? Principals office more than likely. Where is the Principals office located within the school building ? Is it centrally located ? Is it at one end of the building ? How much time will it take to get the firearm unlocked, then will it have to be loaded ? Here we are at the time scenario thing again. It will only take seconds for a perp to wreak havoc. How much time will it take to get the gun out, load it, then get to the location within the building where the shooting is taking place ? More than a few seconds.

Doesn't matter though. It's still a deterrent, and it still has the potential to slow down an attacker. Can mean the difference between a 20-kid body count and a 6-kid body count.

I think the only real potential side effect of armed guards at schools would be kids growing up expecting to be protected by somebody else. They'd be even more likely to give up their guns to the police because they've always been told that guy outside the door is there to protect you. Call him when something goes wrong. And I think that's just terrible.

Maybe, but I think kids view their teachers (and most adults) that way already. The only thing I think it would actually do is make kids a little more comfortable around guns - which is a good thing. Adults today are far too afraid of guns, and it's part of the reason we blame guns, pass laws against guns, and have huge body counts when a psycho gets a gun.

 

[photonrider]

........................................................


It would be interesting to have students here at GTP express their thoughts on this. It will also be interesting to see what parents here on GTP have to feel about this.

If at all possible within your post, could you please indentify whether you are a student or a parent, or maybe just a concerned citizen.

Thanks

I am a student, a parent, and a concerned citizen.
Are you talking teachers in general - or just teachers in countries that have significant gun violence in their schools?
The USA has enough guns in the country to fight several civil wars successfully - what would be the difference in arming a few more people?
We must not forget that over 70% of the gun violence involves small handguns - not the less than 5% of semi-auto long guns. Teachers are no less responsible than the millions (and millions) of responsible gun owners. If responsible for the custody and safety of their charges - arm them. At least some of them - after due examination, and training. Give them a bit of a pay-raise, too (hazard pay).
We may have to ignore the teachers in the 'Rubber Rooms' of NY, though. They already have problems of their own.

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

Teachers shouldn't have guns
Students shouldn't have guns
Police shouldn't have guns all the time, (just when absolutely necessary)
Criminals shouldn't have guns either but some of them are very naughty boys and girls.

I only speak from personal experience in the UK and USA. The above is just my opinion.

Guns don't kill people on their own, it's only when they're carried by people. Less people carrying guns, less people killed by them.

 

[Zenith]

*sigh*

With that infallible logic, what's the point of arguing?

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

*sigh*

With that infallible logic, what's the point of arguing?

Don't worry, just another person brainwashed by the ever-truthful British media.

Guns are bad, mm'kay?

 

[Nicksfix]

Are you talking teachers in general - or just teachers in countries that have significant gun violence in their schools?

The thread was intended for those teachers here in the States, however I see no reason why it could not be applied in countries where there are no gun bans.

Could you imagine hearing of a school shooting in Australia, the UK, Japan, or where ever guns are banned. The media would have field day over that one.

The USA has enough guns in the country to fight several civil wars successfully - what would be the difference in arming a few more people?

IMO, no difference. If anything it is for the safety of our children and the teachers (who by the way are supposed to be in a safe haven ..... school), not a soft target zone for some deranged perp.

Teachers are no less responsible than the millions (and millions) of responsible gun owners. If responsible for the custody and safety of their charges - arm them. At least some of them - after due examination, and training. Give them a bit of a pay-raise, too (hazard pay).

+1

We may have to ignore the teachers in the 'Rubber Rooms' of NY, though. They already have problems of their own.

true that.

Teachers shouldn't have guns
Students shouldn't have guns
Police shouldn't have guns all the time, (just when absolutely necessary)
Criminals shouldn't have guns either but some of them are very naughty boys and girls.

Well if that isn't rich.

I only speak from personal experience in the UK and USA.

Which would be ..... ?

Guns don't kill people on their own, it's only when they're carried by people

Well you got that part correct. A gun is an inanimate object, incapable of conducting any such action by itself, without the aid of human hands.

Less people carrying guns, less people killed by them.

Needs a little correcting.

Less irresponsible people carrying guns = less people killed by them.

 

[Danoff]

Less people carrying guns, less people killed by them.

What Nicksfix said. Imagine for a moment that one of the moviegoers in the audience of the Aurora theater massacre had a gun. Imagine that he shot it at the ceiling while taking cover - alerting the deranged psycho that someone in the audience was armed. What do you think the body count would have been? Would it have been what it was? Higher? Or perhaps lower?

If Holmes had stopped for just a moment to look around and assess whether he was in danger, even if it caused him to pause for only 10 or 20 seconds, that's possibly one less dead person.

Now let's say the audience member shot Holmes in the head before he killed anyone. One bad guy dead, zero innocent people dead.

Those are small examples of how an EXTRA gun in the situation REDUCES the body count.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

Darn, I change my mind! Anyway, I originally chose the first one, but I support the second one. I used to live in Connecticut, and where I lived, it was freaking dangerous. I think more security should be added instead of the whole "teachers with guns" idea. Some teachers can get totally violent for whatever reason and start shooting up his/her class and eventually the whole school. I dunno, that's just my view.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Darn, I change my mind! Anyway, I originally chose the first one, but I support the second one. I used to live in Connecticut, and where I lived, it was freaking dangerous. I think more security should be added instead of the whole "teachers with guns" idea. Some teachers can get totally violent for whatever reason and start shooting up his/her class and eventually the whole school. I dunno, that's just my view.

My god your perception of reality is flawed.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

My god your perception of reality is flawed.

What do you mean "flawed"? I am not that retarded...

 

[Jump_Ace]

Voted.

The less guns there are in this world the better. Guns give people too much power, that some can't control. Some say that then knives would take its place and I don't think so. I can probably outrun a knife better than a bullet, yes? Knives have to be done in very close proximity; you can't do a drive by knifing. People love guns, it gives them a sense of power that they lack otherwise. Giving teachers guns is just escalation and is not the solution.


Jerome

 

[Zenith]

Darn, I change my mind! Anyway, I originally chose the first one, but I support the second one. I used to live in Connecticut, and where I lived, it was freaking dangerous. I think more security should be added instead of the whole "teachers with guns" idea. Some teachers can get totally violent for whatever reason and start shooting up his/her class and eventually the whole school. I dunno, that's just my view.

We had a long and drawn out discussion about teachers with concealed carry permits going crazy and shooting up a school. No evidence has been provided that shows that people with concealed carry permits or teachers would do such a thing. It is pure conjecture.

Voted.

The less guns there are in this world the better. Guns give people too much power, that some can't control. Some say that then knives would take its place and I don't think so. I can probably outrun a knife better than a bullet, yes? Knives have to be done in very close proximity; you can't do a drive by knifing.

Some can't control, yes. The same can be said of cars, chainsaws, poison, explosives.

the difference is that guns are a great equalizer. A small woman has the ability to defend herself with a gun against larger or multiple attackers that she does not have with a knife or her fist. This goes for all people. Guns are currently the best tool for defense, including the defense of school children and teachers.

People love guns, it gives them a sense of power that they lack otherwise.

*Sigh*...

That's me! Just some sad power fantasist! Please get some perspective before you go around making character judgements on several million people.

Giving teachers guns is just escalation and is not the solution.

Nobody is saying give teachers guns, simply allow them to carry much like they would in any other place.

 

[arora]

Teaching responsibility should be a greater priority then removing power or rights, unless of course you subscribe to Chicago politics lol.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

What do you mean "flawed"? I am not that retarded...

No I am not calling you retarded lol. Don't take it that way.

But you're saying the reason you believe teachers shouldn't have guns is because there are some with anger issues that would just go on shooting sprees?

Let's be realistic.

If these teachers really have problems then what's to stop them from doing it right now? If they're really THAT nuts why would they wait until they can legally carry on school grounds to murder everyone there? Why wouldn't they just go around stabbing all their students with pencils RIGHT NOW?

 

[Nicksfix]

Some teachers can get totally violent for whatever reason and start shooting up his/her class and eventually the whole school. I dunno, that's just my view.

Bye Ya tried to approach this at the same angle ..... it didn't get anywhere either.

Voted.

The less guns there are in this world the better. Guns give people too much power, that some can't control. Some say that then knives would take its place and I don't think so. I can probably outrun a knife better than a bullet, yes? Knives have to be done in very close proximity; you can't do a drive by knifing. People love guns, it gives them a sense of power that they lack otherwise. Giving teachers guns is just escalation and is not the solution.


Jerome

How do you plan on accomplishing this feat ? Sure, Obozo, Feinstein, and all the other anti-gunners would love you for that comment. But it is just a comment, not an act. There will never be an all out gun ban ... at least here in the States ... impossible, to say the least.

Guns give people too much power, that some can't control.

Needs a word added to make this accurate.

"Guns give criminals too much power, that some can't control"

and to add to it :

"Guns allow us citizens to protect ourselves from the aforementioned"

People love guns, it gives them a sense of power that they lack otherwise.

...... uuuuuum, ok

Giving teachers guns is just escalation and is not the solution.

An escalation to what may I ask ? What is your solution then ?

You do know that teachers have the right to protect my kids, your kids, your neighbors kids, your nieces and nephews, right ?

In Loco Parentis mean anything ? The last 9 words of it are quite meaningful.

School authorities have the right to maintain school safety.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

No I am not calling you retarded lol. Don't take it that way.

But you're saying the reason you believe teachers shouldn't have guns is because there are some with anger issues that would just go on shooting sprees?

Let's be realistic.

If these teachers really have problems then what's to stop them from doing it right now? If they're really THAT nuts why would they wait until they can legally carry on school grounds to murder everyone there? Why wouldn't they just go around stabbing all their students with pencils RIGHT NOW?

It's a possibility!

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Barrack Obama becoming the next Pope is a possibility.

Doesn't mean it is a logical theory.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

Barrack Obama becoming the next Pope is a possibility.

Doesn't mean it is a logical theory.

 

[Lizard]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21722377

 

[boiltheocean]

It's sad that kids will grow up being so afraid of what's outside because some knee jerk reaction has decided they need guns in the classroom to stay safe.

It's bad enough that we already have generations so shy they can barely look up from a mobile phone, fearing they may get left out of their safe social bubble. They hardly speak, only just uttering a few words that could be drowned out by a pin drop for fear of interacting with a stranger.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

It's sad that kids will grow up being so afraid of what's outside.

What kind of logic is that? They are safer with a gun in the classroom than without.

Should we stop fitting fire extinguishers in classrooms? After all, they represent the very real possibility of a fire, which might mean kids grow up in fear of the day that they burn to death.

School shootings happen - just like any other kind of school emergency. Better to be prepared than have to sit by and wait for outside help.

Why let the wastepaper basket fire grow and burn down a block of the school if you can have fire extinguishers at hand and stop it in its early stages? Why let a gunman shoot up an entire block of classrooms when you can have trained staff with guns and stop the shooting in its early stages?

 

[Zenith]

It's sad that kids will grow up being so afraid of what's outside because some knee jerk reaction has decided they need guns in the classroom to stay safe.

It's bad enough that we already have generations so shy they can barely look up from a mobile phone, fearing they may get left out of their safe social bubble. They hardly speak, only just uttering a few words that could be drowned out by a pin drop for fear of interacting with a stranger.

You seem to have come down with a nasty case of didntreadthethread-itus with ignorance and conjecture being the chief side effects. Might want to cure that.

 

[boiltheocean]

You seem to have come down with a nasty case of didntreadthethread-itus with ignorance and conjecture being the chief side effects. Might want to cure that.

*sigh* You seem to have come down with a nasty case of thisguyhasanopinionidon'tagreewithintheopinionsforumandnowimustmakeupsomestupidcomeback-itus, it seems to be repeating on you too.

Might want to cure that!

MD, I'll make a post tomorrow explaining my reasoning, for now though I'm going to bed. It's 2am.

 

[Azuremen]

It's sad that kids will grow up being so afraid of what's outside because some knee jerk reaction has decided they need guns in the classroom to stay safe.

I do hope the irony of this statement isn't lost on you...

What I see is you being so afraid of guns that you can not look past the actions of those with them. It would be similar to me being scared of airliners because of 9/11

It's bad enough that we already have generations so shy they can barely look up from a mobile phone, fearing they may get left out of their safe social bubble. They hardly speak, only just uttering a few words that could be drowned out by a pin drop for fear of interacting with a stranger.

Fear of social exclusion is nothing new, and one can argue that technology has helped those that would normally be too shy to interact with anyone. Though I also fail to see what relevance it has to this topic.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It's bad enough that we already have generations so shy they can barely look up from a mobile phone, fearing they may get left out of their safe social bubble. They hardly speak, only just uttering a few words that could be drowned out by a pin drop for fear of interacting with a stranger.

I would not call that being shy. I have had plenty of students who are more interested in their phones than their lessons and who haven't been afraid to speak their minds when I take their phones from them.

 

[Nicksfix]

It's sad that kids will grow up being so afraid of what's outside because some knee jerk reaction has decided they need guns in the classroom to stay safe.

Would you rather the teacher throw a book at the perpetrator ?????

 

[Hyped]

Would you rather the teacher throw a book at the perpetrator ?????

But then what would happen when a teacher loses control, which doesn't seem like such an uncommon thing nowadays. I personally would rather have a book thrown at me. And also, if I knew there was a gun in a classroom I was in, I would not feel very comfortable.

 

[Zenith]

But then what would happen when a teacher loses control, which doesn't seem like such an uncommon thing nowadays. I personally would rather have a book thrown at me. And also, if I knew there was a gun in a classroom I was in, I would not feel very comfortable.

Didntreadthethread-itus is contagious it seems. Go back in the thread and find the part where nobody is able to provide evidence of teachers "losing control" and attempting to murder a student.

If you've got evidence, we're all ears.

 

[Famine]

Ahem?

Well... I can provide you with one if you like. But it is only one.

And again it's a mental health issue.

 

[Zenith]

There goes my selective memory again. I'd use Famine's quote to read that part of the conversation.