Teachers with guns ?

[BobK]

But then what would happen when a teacher loses control, which doesn't seem like such an uncommon thing nowadays. I personally would rather have a book thrown at me. And also, if I knew there was a gun in a classroom I was in, I would not feel very comfortable.

Can you cite a single example of that, other than the one Famine came up with?

 

[Ranman20]

If people are so scared of their children being scared then get a teaching license and homeschool your kids.

Think about this. If a teacher had a gun and a maniac came in and held hostage one of the teachers and killed him/her. The students are already traumatized from that. Say the other teacher already grabbed the gun and killed the man. The kids already seen enough and then they saw him die. That might be too much. Put it like this I'm not against it or agree with it. We can't control the maniac so there will always be violence. See we try not to encouraage or bring upon violence to the kids but there is no way to stop it from happening.

 

[FoolKiller]

If people are so scared of their children being scared then get a teaching license and homeschool your kids.

I still believe it is a non-issue all around. The odds of it happening at your kid's school is along the lines of getting struck by lightning.

Think about this. If a teacher had a gun and a maniac came in and held hostage one of the teachers and killed him/her. The students are already traumatized from that. Say the other teacher already grabbed the gun and killed the man. The kids already seen enough and then they saw him die. That might be too much.

Far less traumatizing than him wandering the school, shooting multiple kids and teachers, completely unopposed, and possibly even killing himself once law enforcement shows up 20 minutes later.

 

[Nicksfix]

So Homeland Security lays out an option of confronting the shooter with a pair a scissors ? Yeah right, let us know how this one works out !



I'd rather go with this guy.

 

[Nicksfix]

*bump*

Irony hit today. While at a customers place today, we got started talking about how soon school was going to be let back in. The guy made mention of last years tragedy in Newtown, saying he hopes we don't have to see anything like this transpire again. None of us do, really. So, I get home, start browsing the web news and low and behold, here lies another school that will be arming it's teachers, administrators and other school employees. Clarksville, Alabama will have more than 20 armed staff members for this upcoming year. This coming after extensive training on the staffs part ... 53 hours of certified training per school employee. Obviously, this comes with some controversy, as to be expected.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with this ..... keep our kids safe while they are away from their home and in school. How many more school districts will follow ?

Article

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

*sigh* You seem to have come down with a nasty case of thisguyhasanopinionidon'tagreewithintheopinionsforumandnowimustmakeupsomestupidcomeback-itus, it seems to be repeating on you too.

Might want to cure that!

MD, I'll make a post tomorrow explaining my reasoning, for now though I'm going to bed. It's 2am.

Just to let you know Zenith is pretty pro-gun so...it probably has more to do with something else. Hey but if you don't know who you are dealing with then by all means make knee jerk reactions.

 

[Camaro69427]

Seriously, what will fend off a mass murderer, a sign that says "This is a gun free zone" or a sign that says "Our staff is armed and is not afraid to shoot any intruder"? Seriously, it's a no brainer.

 

[Jubby]

Should teachers have guns? Only if they feel comfortable with them. There is no point in having Mr. John or Ms. Suzy fumbling with their .38 snub-nose when the person comes in. There should be no pressure for anyone, plus a strenuous test for them to be able to. Basically, they should be able to conduct a gun safety course (properly) to do so.

The weapon should be concealed and unloaded. Yes, unloaded. My suggestion would be to have the concealment be in the form of an ankle holster or even in a locked drawer.
The ammunition should be either separately locked in a separate drawer and not obvious.

The concealment is necessary to help the students not know who is packing a weapon and who is not.

Now, if teachers are going to carry guns, they should also be allowed to restrain people, students included, with little liability or impunity (obvious issues notwithstanding). Students used to fear teachers and faculty, when necessary. Not think they can run over them. The vast majority of teachers I spent time with were nice, cordial, and very helpful, but if you stepped out of line, you were expecting all hell to break loose. Now all children fear from teachers are, "Please, Suzy/Johnny, stop that." Zero recourse today. Hell, some schools are doing away with punishments and detentions. And we wonder why we think some kids think they own the schools. In their minds, they do- and we let them think that.

 

[dr_slump]

This will work untill a teacher decides to go amok.

 

[Jubby]

This will work untill a teacher decides to go amok.

What's stopping them now? Nothing. They can still bring a gun to work, concealed. Not many schools scan the teachers and administrators. So, the risk is the same.

 

[Camaro69427]

Should teachers have guns? Only if they feel comfortable with them. There is no point in having Mr. John or Ms. Suzy fumbling with their .38 snub-nose when the person comes in. There should be no pressure for anyone, plus a strenuous test for them to be able to. Basically, they should be able to conduct a gun safety course (properly) to do so.

The weapon should be concealed and unloaded. Yes, unloaded. My suggestion would be to have the concealment be in the form of an ankle holster or even in a locked drawer.
The ammunition should be either separately locked in a separate drawer and not obvious.

The concealment is necessary to help the students not know who is packing a weapon and who is not.

Now, if teachers are going to carry guns, they should also be allowed to restrain people, students included, with little liability or impunity (obvious issues notwithstanding). Students used to fear teachers and faculty, when necessary. Not think they can run over them. The vast majority of teachers I spent time with were nice, cordial, and very helpful, but if you stepped out of line, you were expecting all hell to break loose. Now all children fear from teachers are, "Please, Suzy/Johnny, stop that." Zero recourse today. Hell, some schools are doing away with punishments and detentions. And we wonder why we think some kids think they own the schools. In their minds, they do- and we let them think that.

Exactly, my Dad says the same thing.

 

[Sage Ages]

No. I do not trust people. (Not necessarily the teacher)

 

[Joel]

No. I do not trust people. (Not necessarily the teacher)

Then why do you not trust people to bring a gun regardless? It's not like there's strict security measures at schools.

 

[LeMansAid]

This will work untill a teacher decides to go amok.

I think it's been pretty well established that if there's an argument against, that's not it.

Seriously, what will fend off a mass murderer, a sign that says "This is a gun free zone" or a sign that says "Our staff is armed and is not afraid to shoot any intruder"? Seriously, it's a no brainer.

No brainer for you, but have you ever had the brain of a mass murderer?

A good murderer uses the right tool for the job. Will the right tool be different if the teachers are known to be armed? Or maybe it's not the tool that changes, but the method.

Does continually raising the defence level knock on to a continual raising of the attack level? Be it hardware or forethought.

 

[Zenith]

Why is this thread being necroed to rehash the same arguments?

 

[Jubby]

Why is this thread being necroed to rehash the same arguments?

Because people wanted to discuss the OP's topic. We can do that sort of thing, you know. It's not like it's been a year since the last post. I've not had the time to weigh in with what my opinion was back at the beginning of the year. I do now and I can express my opinion if I'd like. If it happens to sound similar to earlier posts, then it does. If you're not thrilled with it, there's a neat little button that allows you to go back. Sorry we disrupted your day.

Does continually raising the defence level knock on to a continual raising of the attack level? Be it hardware or forethought.

I don't think there is necessarily a correlation to that. If a student brings in a sub-machine gun (heaven forbid), I won't want teachers having those. People are going to do stupid things, but some things can be used as a deterrent. It's similar to having a gun in a household for protection. Most people will never have to use them.

 

[Camaro69427]

No brainer for you, but have you ever had the brain of a mass murderer?

A good murderer uses the right tool for the job. Will the right tool be different if the teachers are known to be armed? Or maybe it's not the tool that changes, but the method.

Does continually raising the defence level knock on to a continual raising of the attack level? Be it hardware or forethought.

Still, if the murderer does see that before he goes berserk, he may change his mind, but who knows really.

 

[LeMansAid]

I don't think there is necessarily a correlation to that. If a student brings in a sub-machine gun (heaven forbid), I won't want teachers having those. People are going to do stupid things, but some things can be used as a deterrent. It's similar to having a gun in a household for protection. Most people will never have to use them.

Unless it's a mass murdering member of the Scouts. You know..... "Be prepared". Being silly there, but people may think two different ways about "Our staff is armed" signage. Something as simple as having a little yapping dog can send a burglar to a couple of houses down the street because it's not worth the hassle. Conversely, if there's something in that particular house that the burglar really wants, they can prepare to contend with the dog, or what ever other obstacles there may be. So does a school tend to be a random target, or a specific target? I think they generally want something in that particular "house".

 

[FoolKiller]

We've already had schools attacked with "assault" rifles and explosives by people wearing body armor. What can it escalate to?

Many show up intending to die and/or engage a SWAT team. They are already escalated beyond a handgun, when they want/can. An armed teacher will be more likely to deter a random guy going in with a shotgun or give students a few extra precious moments to get away from the truly psychotic guy on a kill and destroy mission, if not stop him altogether.


No one thinks it will be a 100% fix, but then no one thinks an off-duty cop working security at a bank will guarantee no bank robberies take place. It's an extra level of security, one that might save lives.


Personally, I'm all for trained attack crows.

 

[Zenith]

Because people wanted to discuss the OP's topic. We can do that sort of thing, you know. It's not like it's been a year since the last post. I've not had the time to weigh in with what my opinion was back at the beginning of the year. I do now and I can express my opinion if I'd like. If it happens to sound similar to earlier posts, then it does. If you're not thrilled with it, there's a neat little button that allows you to go back. Sorry we disrupted your day.

Oh sorry, I forgot that the important thing about discussions isn't comparing and examining ideas, it's making sure everybody knows where you stand. Carry on.

 

[LeMansAid]

Yes, time well spent Zenith.

No one thinks it will be a 100% fix, but then no one thinks an off-duty cop working security at a bank will guarantee no bank robberies take place. It's an extra level of security, one that might save lives.

I've been thinking about the gun thing a bit lately. I can actually see that if I were to imagine myself with a child attending school in a society where schools are prone to attacks, that I might feel more at ease if the teachers had guns. Might be nice if teachers were to pass a course rather than merely complete a course though.

I do however still think the psychology for the potential attacker could go either way.

 

[Jubby]

We've already had schools attacked with "assault" rifles and explosives by people wearing body armor. What can it escalate to?

Many show up intending to die and/or engage a SWAT team...

Personally, I'm all for trained attack crows.

Sadly, it can escalate as far as people imagine. I do agree that most times it's a suicide mission. I'm just hoping that with armed personnel, they can oblige the idiot before harming someone that wants to live.

As for the cows... that's awesome, but will they be organic?

I do however still think the psychology for the potential attacker could go either way.

Yeah, the psychology can go either way, but if it deters even one casualty, isn't it worth it? I'd think so. Some people are just going to do stupid things regardless of security measures.

 

[FoolKiller]

I do however still think the psychology for the potential attacker could go either way.

So could who dies (attacker or kids) if there are bullets aimed at the attacker. And that's a potential that doesn't exist now.

Sadly, it can escalate as far as people imagine.

Much further than where it has and they won't need to enter the school grounds to achieve their goal.

As for the cows... that's awesome, but will they be organic?

Crows. Birds. Not the kind you eat.

 

[LeMansAid]

The psychology interests me. It seems that often these types of killings are carried out by people seeking to fill a need for emotional retribution. But then, the escalation could encourage greater physical, emotional, and psychological distance. Ah, the conundrum: Do I carry out my mass murder effectively but without getting that "up close and personal" satisfaction, or aim to get my retribution fix but risk being shot within seconds? The old head vs heart debate.

 

[Strittan]

I do not support guns at all. I don't even think cops should have 'em.

The thing with the US and A though, is that it's already gone way too far and the only solution really is to give everyone guns it seems, and then, when everyone has killed each other, perhaps the whole nation could become this huge amusement park with guided tours and such, for the rest of the world to see and experience?

EDIT: I'm kidding by the way, except for the first two sentences.

 

[Omnis]

So the cops should just throw rocks at the guy with a knife at your throat? And don't say you wouldn't let him come at you with a knife. This is a professional knifist with years of knife combat training and big swole stab muscles.

 

[Strittan]

So the cops should just throw rocks at the guy with a knife at your throat? And don't say you wouldn't let him come at you with a knife. This is a professional knifist with years of knife combat training and big swole stab muscles.

 

[Badasp5.0]

Not 100% effective nor does it allow followup shots if it misses or doesn't work.

 

[Strittan]

Not 100% effective nor does it allow followup shots if it misses or doesn't work.

I'd say it's quite effective though, but ok, you're right. Then there's the option to stick with guns, but using rubber bullets instead of the lethal kind.

 

[Tornado]

Rubber bullets are merely less lethal rather than non-lethal; but with the major drawback that they are also far less effective at actually stopping someone.