Tesla Master Plan: Part Deux

[Moglet]

Turns out the yoke wheel is as much of an ergonomic mess as most people imagined it to be:

Elon's reply to this makes his arrogance very clear



So it will get better over time which is great but...the car is for sale NOW, not in 10 years time. A $114,000 car should not have problems with basics like indicating.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I've seen Musk make that 'All input is error' statement before.

At the moment that seems to include input from the cameras in the FSD system

 

[LM7325]

Doesn't Panasonic supply the cells for the battery and build them into batteries in collaboration with Tesla?

I was thinking of Tesla becoming the Pratt& Whitney of the electric car world.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

I think Rimac has already beaten Tesla there

 

[Famine]

I was thinking of Tesla becoming the Pratt& Whitney of the electric car world.

They just need to find a Whitney, I guess.



I've tried for eight whole minutes not to post this response, but I'm only human.

 

[CodeRedR51]

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Ignoring the clickbait title, this video does a really good job of summarizing all of the autonowashing Tesla has been doing

 

[CodeRedR51]

Autopilot

All new Tesla vehicles are equipped with the hardware needed for Autopilot and Full Self-Driving capability features, designed to improve functionality over time.

www.tesla.com

 

[Silver Arrows]

But while human drivers indeed can be held legally liable in such crashes, NHTSA is investigating Autopilot’s ability to identify obstacles in the roadway and its “event detection and response” systems. The technical language obscures some common sense questions that surely will be explored: Why does Autopilot sometimes not see fire trucks and police cars with lights flashing? Why did its automatic emergency brake systems not work?

 

[CodeRedR51]

 

[Vegard]

Official world speed record

 

[MatskiMonk]

Official world speed record

I'm just impressed there is now an official body for Nürburgring lap records.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I'm just impressed there is now an official body for Nürburgring lap records.

Is this official enough?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Also:

 

[Northstar]

People still care about 'Ring lap records? Thought that fad passed years ago.

 

[McLaren]

I didn't know the Nurburgring decided to officially recognize who has & hasn't the records. Interesting that it writes off the Porsche record now b/c it was a pre-production spec in a private session, something I believe most manufacturers seemed to have accomplished their records doing, Telsa included a couple years ago.

Also giving Telsa the production EV record while Formula E recognizes the NIO EP9 as the overall fastest production car at the 'Ring with a 6:45.90.

Having previously set the electric vehicle lap record, the NIO EP9 shaved a further 19.22 seconds off that lap time. This makes the Chinese supercar not only the fastest electric vehicle around the historic circuit, but the fastest production car ever to take the challenge.

I'm sorry, but the IG post seems to take a bit of a revisionist approach that gives Telsa all the credit & then some. "Driver shoveled dirt and that helped him go faster on the track"....

 

[Famine]

I didn't know the Nurburgring decided to officially recognize who has & hasn't the records.

When the track changed hands a couple of years ago, the new owners decided to standardise records because they were bloody ridiculous.

Manufacturers were doing all sorts of crazy crap, like slapping in a full cage which they claimed didn't add any rigidity, then deleting HVAC "to offset the weight" of the cage - never mind totally changing the weight distribution and COG - and running basically cheater slicks. Some brands even partnered with the tyre manufacturer so you could theoretically order your car with minimally road-legal track rubber, to claim it's production spec. And then there were the video controversies, like the one with Lamborghini.

Originally 'Ring records were just one German magazine doing an annual test of road-legal cars in Germany. I'm not sure what the moment was that made everyone suddenly decide it was the thing to do and do it for themselves, but it was probably the R33 Skyline's eight-minute lap.

Still, it's good to see that the Plaid can run a lap completely unmodified except for that idiotic yoke steering wheel swapped out for a regular unit 2% faster than a Honda Civic, and 2% slower than a decade-old GT-R.

 

[McLaren]

When the track changed hands a couple of years ago, the new owners decided to standardise records because they were bloody ridiculous.

Manufacturers were doing all sorts of crazy crap, like slapping in a full cage which they claimed didn't add any rigidity, then deleting HVAC "to offset the weight" of the cage - never mind totally changing the weight distribution and COG - and running basically cheater slicks. Some brands even partnered with the tyre manufacturer so you could theoretically order your car with minimally road-legal track rubber, to claim it's production spec. And then there were the video controversies, like the one with Lamborghini.

Originally 'Ring records were just one German magazine doing an annual test of road-legal cars in Germany. I'm not sure what the moment was that made everyone suddenly decide it was the thing to do and do it for themselves, but it was probably the R33 Skyline's eight-minute lap.

Still, it's good to see that the Plaid can run a lap completely unmodified except for that idiotic yoke steering wheel swapped out for a regular unit 2% faster than a Honda Civic, and 2% slower than a decade-old GT-R.

The thing I noticed though is that their current classification system doesn't recognize any record past 2018 & I have seen you give strong, compelling arguments in years prior to how Radical set a completely legitimate time of driving from the factory to the track, setting a time, and driving back to showcase it being a full-fledged production car.

 

[Famine]

The thing I noticed though is that their current classification system doesn't recognize any record past 2018 & I have seen you give strong, compelling arguments in years prior to how Radical set a completely legitimate time of driving from the factory to the track, setting a time, and driving back to showcase it being a full-fledged production car.

Yup. Same set of tyres for the whole trip too As I recall there wasn't even any setup, and it was a Touristfahrten session, not a fully booked private day for a manufacturer.

I think the new owners basically Lance Armstronged the records - or at least archived them for guidance only - and now only permit records they personally time.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Still, it's good to see that the Plaid can run a lap completely unmodified except for that idiotic yoke steering wheel swapped out for a regular unit

Steering wheel was not swapped out.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I think the new owners basically Lance Armstronged the records - or at least archived them for guidance only - and now only permit records they personally time.

I guess it makes sense. If you are going to be clocking in laps, then it makes sense to have a clear starting point and then work from there, with everything that came before it serving as 'valid, but not valid under our system'

 

[ProjectWHaT]

WSJ News Exclusive | Elon Musk’s Push to Expand Tesla’s Driver Assistance to Cities Rankles a Top Safety Authority

Tesla plans to expand access to its Full Self-Driving system and defends its technology. A safety official says more work is needed and calls the name irresponsible.

www.wsj.com

Jennifer Homendy, the new head of the National Transportation Safety Board, said Tesla shouldn’t roll out the city-driving tool before addressing what the agency views as safety deficiencies in the company’s technology. The NTSB, which investigates crashes and issues safety recommendations though it has no regulatory authority, has urged Tesla to clamp down on how drivers are able to use the company’s driver-assistance tools.

“Basic safety issues have to be addressed before they’re then expanding it to other city streets and other areas,” she said in an interview. Ms. Homendy also expressed concern about how Tesla software is tested on public roadways.

Ms. Homendy called Tesla’s use of the term Full Self-Driving “misleading and irresponsible,” adding that people pay more attention to marketing than to warnings in car manuals or on a company’s website. In Tesla’s case, she said, “It has clearly misled numerous people to misuse and abuse technology.”

Some safety advocates and transportation officials have raised concerns that drivers may be overestimating the capabilities of advanced driver-assistance systems such as Tesla’s.

“We’re consistently hearing that it’s definitely a work in progress, so it’s just how do we make sure the public understands its limitations?” Reema Griffith, executive director of the Washington State Transportation Commission, told The Wall Street Journal.

Mark Kopko, director of the office of transformational technology at the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation, in an interview expressed similar concerns about driver education and called for additional federal guidance.

Tesla’s technology has faced increasing scrutiny. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the country’s auto-safety regulator, launched a probe last month after a spate of crashes in which Teslas that had been operating with Autopilot engaged ran into one or more parked emergency vehicles such as police cars. NHTSA has requested a trove of data from Tesla and other auto makers as it seeks to compare advanced driver-assistance systems. The agency also recently began requiring auto makers to report serious crashes involving such features.

Meanwhile, the California DMV is reviewing whether Tesla violated a state regulation that bars companies from falsely advertising vehicles as autonomous. Democratic lawmakers have asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate whether Tesla has used deceptive marketing practices.

Ms. Homendy of the NTSB said those with regulatory power should be moving more aggressively to issue appropriate regulations. “Doing investigations after the fact, that’s a tombstone mentality,” she said. “You can proactively address potential future crashes and future deaths by taking action, by issuing regulations, performance standards aimed at saving lives.”

 

[EngieDiesel]

Five Texas police officers are suing Tesla after a drunk driver crashed into their patrol cars, claiming the Model X's Autopilot didn't recognize the flashing lights on their cars and was responsible for the accident.

Frankly I would think anyone with a shred of common sense would say that since the driver was intoxicated he should be held at fault and shouldn't have been on the road, irregardless of what automated systems were fitted to his car, but looking at how the lawsuit is worded (and the fact that the driver isn't named in the lawsuit), it's pretty clear the real intention is "Hey rich man Elon, give us an out of court settlement to make us go away".

 

[ProjectWHaT]

In other news, Tesla is encouraging drivers to drive more dangerously

[language warning]

Tesla Is Now Ranking Drivers With A 'Safety Score' And Of Course It's Already Going Weird

Unsurprisingly, judging driving behavior without context turns safety into a stupid game

jalopnik.com

 

[Famine]

Now he's split with Claire "Grimes" Boucher, is she his Space Ex?

 

[EngieDiesel]

In other news, Tesla is encouraging drivers to drive more dangerously

[language warning]

Tesla Is Now Ranking Drivers With A 'Safety Score' And Of Course It's Already Going Weird

Unsurprisingly, judging driving behavior without context turns safety into a stupid game

jalopnik.com

This reminds me of how for a short while some insurance companies used to offer a dongle that would plug into your car's OBD-II port, monitor the engine computer and beam the data back to them for the claimed purpose of giving you better insurance rates for safe driving habits (or however they interpreted that from the raw data anyway). I don't think it really caught on because people were afraid that they would get nailed for too many speed ups to beat a yellow light or such, though the eventual reveal that the dongles were notoriously insecure and easy to hack into sure didn't help.

I'm presuming this Safety Score business isn't an opt-in, which should be a privacy concern since they're actively monitoring how people drive their cars... but I have a feeling Tesla was already doing that anyway and they can do whatever the hell they want to the cars via OTA regardless of whether you're a hotshoe or not, so I guess it's another case of Just Tesla Things™.

 

[CodeRedR51]

This reminds me of how for a short while some insurance companies used to offer a dongle that would plug into your car's OBD-II port, monitor the engine computer and beam the data back to them for the claimed purpose of giving you better insurance rates for safe driving habits (or however they interpreted that from the raw data anyway). I don't think it really caught on because people were afraid that they would get nailed for too many speed ups to beat a yellow light or such, though the eventual reveal that the dongles were notoriously insecure and easy to hack into sure didn't help.

I'm presuming this Safety Score business isn't an opt-in, which should be a privacy concern since they're actively monitoring how people drive their cars... but I have a feeling Tesla was already doing that anyway and they can do whatever the hell they want to the cars via OTA regardless of whether you're a hotshoe or not, so I guess it's another case of Just Tesla Things™.

Insurance companies still offer that.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

I'm presuming this Safety Score business isn't an opt-in, which should be a privacy concern since they're actively monitoring how people drive their cars... but I have a feeling Tesla was already doing that anyway and they can do whatever the hell they want to the cars via OTA regardless of whether you're a hotshoe or not, so I guess it's another case of Just Tesla Things™.

It's opt-in where people who want to test the Full Self Driving beta, they have to have a high enough score to be able to be given the chance to test the software that they have already paid the hardware for

 

[Keef]

In other news, Tesla is encouraging drivers to drive more dangerously

[language warning]

Tesla Is Now Ranking Drivers With A 'Safety Score' And Of Course It's Already Going Weird

Unsurprisingly, judging driving behavior without context turns safety into a stupid game

jalopnik.com

To be fair, I would absolutely agree that "running" yellow lights (instead of suddenly stopping and forcing cars behind to also suddenly stop), and the car's familiar owner parking the car instead of an unfamiliar and time-rushed valet, and defending your legal right-of-way, and not avoiding inefficient and frustrating complete stops at the 95% of America's stop signs which should all be yield signs are all more standardized, more efficient, more predictable, and ultimately safer operations than otherwise.

It is not safer to ponder your way through the dilemma zone and then slam on the brakes.



It is not safer to let some random person trying to park cars as fast as possible to park your car for you.

It is not safer to make up right-of-way rules as you go (unfortunate for the rider who also cannot follow rules but that's their legal and moral problem if a collision happens).

It's not safer to come to complete stops when it isn't necessary, particularly because it encourages road rage amongst the people behind you.

Ultimately what is safer and/or more efficient when it comes to roads and highways is an absolute cluster. Our current rules largely make no sense combined, from any perspective, especially legacy rules which are still lingering and forcing new ideas to be compromised within idiotic boundaries. And then there's the fact that you could re-implement all the newest and most efficient and safest designs and rules you could ever want, but they won't mean squat if you don't train people how to use them, which we don't. And we absolutely do not teach new drivers about human factors concepts, or about vehicle and network efficiency, etc. We basically just give them the keys to a death machine and hope they can figure out how to read all these extremely authoritative signs before they run into something.

What I do know is that I've driven a whole lot of new rental cars with fancy lane-keeping and smarty pants cruise controls and all that sort of stuff, and I've driven Teslas with Autopilot (the basic kind, from a couple years ago), and Tesla's system was way more logical and human-like than anybody else's. Toyota's in particular was heavily over-cautious and infuriating, to the point of people around me getting pissed off, passing me, and causing further problems for my car's system. Being over-cautious is not safe. Being annoying is not safe. In my experience, particularly in aviation, the ideas of efficiency and safety are typically synonymous. But here on the ground we neither design our road systems nor teach our drivers to be efficient or safe.

 

[Danoff]

To be fair, I would absolutely agree that "running" yellow lights (instead of suddenly stopping and forcing cars behind to also suddenly stop)

Yea, when did "running" yellow lights become a bad thing? I've gotten pretty pissed at people who slammed on their brakes to avoid going through a yellow when I was already expecting to proceed from behind them.