The 2017 F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation threadFormula 1

[Jimlaad43]

Does anyone know if it's just for Malaysia or for the rest of the season? I know it sounds silly but I'd like to see Gasly finish the fight for the the Super Formula Championship (the final round of which is the same weekend as the USA GP). Back to back championships in two of the highest ranked series outside of Formula 1 could be huge for him not only within the Red Bull family but across the F1 paddock in general.

Malaysia and Japan. He'll then stay there and try to win the Super Formula title, so Kvyat's back in Austin. No idea for then on.

 

[EngieDiesel]

Malaysia and Japan. He'll then stay there and try to win the Super Formula title, so Kvyat's back in Austin. No idea for then on.

Franz Tost hasn't been very kind in his assessment of Kvyat's performance, so it's not a stretch to say he'll probably be shown the door as soon as it's convenient for the team.

Also, the other effect of Kvyat being replaced is that Sainz has to stay at Toro Rosso for the time being, which prevented Renault from sacking Palmer early. Oughta be fun to see how far the Palmer/Renault situation deteriorates over the rest of the season since the two sides are probably very unhappy with each other now. Especially since the team didn't even tell Palmer he was being replaced and he found out from the Internet...

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Where did I say you said that? I said it is implied when you post in a fashion you did, you don't like people inferring something then don't give them reason to simple. I want to know why you and a few others claim a fallacy that isn't being used, just to deflect. I quoted exactly the part of the post that stood out as strange and unfinished and commented on it, go back and read it if there is that much trouble connecting the dots.

Let's quickly brake it down, one you don't like the prospect of Kubica you yourself have claimed this. Two the portion I quoted from you says and I quote "Looking forward to being proven wrong, but i don't think we'll see Kubica in F1.", which reads as if Kubica wont be coming to F1, and neglects that Kubica has a history in F1. Hence why I responded the way I did. It's that fact that you ignore that is why he's a prospect in the first place, and why it's not "hype" but an expectation that if he is in physical shape to compete then there is a chance that he can be as quick as he was before his accident.

If other former drivers can come back yet again, then why not Kubica, if other former drivers that have had accidents can come back to F1 and win, then why not Kubica. If you don't expect to see Kubica return to f1 then okay, but let's respect the fact he's been here before and is actually trying to return in a serious effort not some gimmick.

I didn't really get that sense from his posts. Kubica seems to be doing pretty well, but you also have to consider that he's been out of F1 for years. Schumacher struggled, and he was out for a shorter time and did not have an injury to work through. Though sometimes people come out stronger, more focused after injuries. I hope he succeeds in getting back.

 

[mustafur]

The thing with Schumacher is he came back when he was way too old and past his prime, Kubica is still at a good age but his arm may limit his ability.

Apples and Oranges.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

There's no new Malaysian GP thread but I wanna post this. The Formula 1 official YouTube channel uploaded the full 2001 Malaysian GP. They never upload full races. Is it legendary and if so why?

 

[Kingofweasles]

There's no new Malaysian GP thread but I wanna post this. The Formula 1 official YouTube channel uploaded the full 2001 Malaysian GP. They never upload full races. Is it legendary and if so why?

Somebody probably just spam-voted like crazy to get that race uploaded.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

What vote?

 

[mustafur]

Yes the 2001 Malaysian GP was pretty legendary the start was incredibly weird for multiple reasons.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Yes the 2001 Malaysian GP was pretty legendary the start was incredibly weird for multiple reasons.

Just watching it now, awesome stuff There's a link in the OP of the race thread.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I didn't really get that sense from his posts. Kubica seems to be doing pretty well, but you also have to consider that he's been out of F1 for years. Schumacher struggled, and he was out for a shorter time and did not have an injury to work through. Though sometimes people come out stronger, more focused after injuries. I hope he succeeds in getting back.

Like @mustafur said, there have been others to come back from massive injuries and show the world otherwise, like Lauda, Mika and such. Also Kimi has proven that you can come back and win after a period of absences nearly as long. So it all depends on how capable Kubica is, for a long time he didn't believe he was able to come back. Now he's changed that tone, and that leads me to believe that the the person who knows best, is Robert Kubica himself.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Like @mustafur said, there have been others to come back from massive injuries and show the world otherwise, like Lauda, Mika and such. Also Kimi has proven that you can come back and win after a period of absences nearly as long. So it all depends on how capable Kubica is, for a long time he didn't believe he was able to come back. Now he's changed that tone, and that leads me to believe that the the person who knows best, is Robert Kubica himself.

Those times were a little different as the average age of the drivers was a bit higher. There's a bit more competition from the Verstappens of the world that makes the proposition of hiring an older driver less favorable. Kimi is doing okay. After his comeback he settled into a somewhat successful #2 driver role. But that seems far off from when he was chasing championships. Though that may have changed after he won the championship in 2007.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Those times were a little different as the average age of the drivers was a bit higher. There's a bit more competition from the Verstappens of the world that makes the proposition of hiring an older driver less favorable.

I wonder how these other two fogies are getting on?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Those times were a little different as the average age of the drivers was a bit higher. There's a bit more competition from the Verstappens of the world that makes the proposition of hiring an older driver less favorable. Kimi is doing okay. After his comeback he settled into a somewhat successful #2 driver role. But that seems far off from when he was chasing championships. Though that may have changed after he won the championship in 2007.

As @TenEightyOne bluntly put it, how? Considering the age of other drivers currently dominating the sport along side a young guy like Verstappen, or better due to his lack of experience in relation to theirs. Lewis is (knock on wood) honing in on a 4th WDC, Nico is the incumbent WDC, Kimi still holds his own when he feels like it. Fernando even older is by and large quick. Massa for all things considered is still capable of grabbing points. I don't understand. Average age was higher how? There are so many drivers coming in and out of the sport with far less teams that of course the average age seems lower but is it really when talking about competitive drivers? Which Kubica is still regarded as, if his mobility is supposedly no longer a worry.

I would argue that currently there is a down turn in potential drivers ready to make the leap, and money to back them. When a guy like Palmer can do progressively worse after his rookie season, and still have the potential for a seat in 2018...there is clearly not a big back log of Verstappens in the wings.

Also just to note, when I talk about Kimi's success, I specifically talk about his time at Lotus on the first couple seasons return. His move to Ferrari to me is no short (yes most of you people love him despite this) of a yes man. A consistent driver who could challenge others and pick up the slack when needed, but also one who was proven. And despite Kimi's leaving, Ferrari knew who he was and took him back in. To me it wasn't really about winning a WDC again and more so now, but just being in the sport and earning a check.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I wonder how these other two fogies are getting on?

One of them felt too old and retired. And the other considered retirement, but reconsidered after taking his senior multivitamins.


@LMSCorvetteGT2 That's a fair assessment of the situation.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

One of them felt too old and retired. And the other considered retirement, but reconsidered after taking his senior multivitamins.


@LMSCorvetteGT2 That's a fair assessment of the situation.

Though I should be clear, I too lack the real belief that Kubica has full mobility back, but then again I'm not a doctor.

 

[TenEightyOne]

When a guy like Palmer can do progressively worse after his rookie season, and still have the potential for a seat in 2018...there is clearly not a big back log of Verstappens in the wings.

I quite agree... but Williams is still a special case (as we keep saying). Even if Verstappen was free and had his heart set on a Williams 2018 drive they couldn't take him without getting rid of Stroll.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I quite agree... but Williams is still a special case (as we keep saying). Even if Verstappen was free and had his heart set on a Williams 2018 drive they couldn't take him without getting rid of Stroll.

I get that, but there are plenty of other drivers of past form better than Palmer that are of the age necessary. The fact Palmer is even a chance, is less to do with his age, for the reason I've just now given and more to with his backing. I realize the age fact for Williams but that isn't my point, Palmer was the easiest driver to pick out. We could also point to Kvyat and how Gasly could have easily been given a seat, the fact he wasn't shows more about how the current line up are probably in less threat of losing a seat then 3 years ago let's say.

 

[Brutaka]

So Eracing365 just put out an article saying that Palmer attempted to get a seat in Formula E with Techeetah but was beat out by Andre Lotterer.

 

[TenEightyOne]

So Eracing365 just put out an article saying that Palmer attempted to get a seat in Formula E with Techeetah but was beat out by Andre Lotterer.

Can't find it... link?

 

[TheElbows]

Possibly because Andre Lotterer is a proven and rather fantastic racing driver?

 

[IforceV8]

Can't find it... link?

http://e-racing365.com/formula-e/exclusive-techeetah-sign-lotterer/

 

[TenEightyOne]

The fly in Kubica's appointment may be the Strolls. Williams were keen to test Kubica at Suzuka a couple of weeks ago but it couldn't happen. Sky, Mark Hughes.

Stroll tested the 2014 Williams at Suzuka twice – in the week before the Singapore Grand Prix and again two days after. An initial plan for Kubica to test the day after Stroll was thwarted by the Strolls, who preferred to have their two cars shipped to Austin in readiness for Lance to gain further experience ahead of the American Grand Prix there.

This has left Williams looking at the feasibility of using its remaining 2014 car to conduct a Kubica test somewhere in Europe – and with the driver potentially looking for financial backing to cover the cost of the test. Although the Strolls do not run the team and the choice of driver alongside Lance Stroll is the prerogative of the Williams board members, and Paddy Lowe in particular, Lawrence Stroll does pay for Lance’s test programme in the 2014 cars. He does not pay for Williams to test other drivers in those cars. Hence the political difficulties of Kubica’s test.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The fly in Kubica's appointment may be the Strolls. Williams were keen to test Kubica at Suzuka a couple of weeks ago but it couldn't happen. Sky, Mark Hughes.

Yeah I just read this and was going to post it myself. This also helps the other contestant, PdR.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...ms-seat-as-doubts-persist-about-robert-kubica

I don't see it as malicious but yeah it does hinder Kubica quite a bit. I don't really get the logistics of it all, but I imagine if a test is the issue, why not put him in the best testing conditions possible and that being a Friday FP session. I'm guessing because he'd have to be on the payroll and the FIA would have to approve it on some level...it's a strange set of circumstances. I've never seen something where a team controls the cars, but since a drivers financial backers pay for the testing of their driver, essentially Williams can't say no?

 

[Liquid]

There's only one similar precedent for Robert Kubica; Alessandro Nannini.

Kubica's injury (a partially severed forearm) isn't quite as severe as Nannini's (a totally severed forearm) but Nannini, despite a return test with Ferrari in 1992, never did return to Formula One. It's a shame that that happened because, like Kubica, Nannini was a popular driver with one win under his belt amidst a glowing reputation. The paddock gossip at the time was that Ferrari wanted to sign Nannini to replace Nigel Mansell but instead they had to sign Ivan Capelli and we all know how that went.

I personally feel that a lot of the Kubica talk is laden with rose-tint of his first run in Formula One which was great, I don't think anyone denies that. But really, we on the fora, in the magazines, on the websites, we know nothing. It's the teams who are running the testing sessions and seeing how well he is performing. You would think that Williams, or any other team, will take a calculated and balanced approach to signing him.

And I would love to be proven wrong on skepticism. I would love for Kubica to come back and be as good as he was the first time. But even away from his injuries, he's been away for seven seasons. It's a big ask.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

At this point, I think it's safe to say that PdR probably has a lock on this, and unless he says otherwise it would fall to potentially Palmer at least from all the info we've been given. It is sad as said above, but this is F1 and the fairy tale stories are very few and far between. At the end of the day the fact he put in a massive effort, got a few test with the distances he ran, and came back after it all says a lot.

 

[TenEightyOne]

"Sources" at Williams have said to the BBC that if Kubica doesn't work out then their preferred option is to offer Massa another season with Di Resta having an outside chance. Jolyon Palmer's chance is, seemingly, nil. True story.

What surprises me most is that Massa's re-retirement isn't a given... in fact Massa seems confident that he's the number one choice for the seat.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

"Sources" at Williams have said to the BBC that if Kubica doesn't work out then their preferred option is to offer Massa another season with Di Resta having an outside chance. Jolyon Palmer's chance is, seemingly, nil. True story.

What surprises me most is that Massa's re-retirement isn't a given... in fact Massa seems confident that he's the number one choice for the seat.

I feel that only states what many felt, that Williams wanted Massa out at Williams because Bottas was their guy to take them places, and they wanted a fresh face along side him in Stroll. Now it's just easier to keep Massa who never wanted to retire in the first place, but knew there was no where to go in F1 if Williams let him go and thus "retired"

 

[Kingofweasles]

There's only one similar precedent for Robert Kubica; Alessandro Nannini.

Kubica's injury (a partially severed forearm) isn't quite as severe as Nannini's (a totally severed forearm) but Nannini, despite a return test with Ferrari in 1992, never did return to Formula One. It's a shame that that happened because, like Kubica, Nannini was a popular driver with one win under his belt amidst a glowing reputation. The paddock gossip at the time was that Ferrari wanted to sign Nannini to replace Nigel Mansell but instead they had to sign Ivan Capelli and we all know how that went.

I personally feel that a lot of the Kubica talk is laden with rose-tint of his first run in Formula One which was great, I don't think anyone denies that. But really, we on the fora, in the magazines, on the websites, we know nothing. It's the teams who are running the testing sessions and seeing how well he is performing. You would think that Williams, or any other team, will take a calculated and balanced approach to signing him.

And I would love to be proven wrong on skepticism. I would love for Kubica to come back and be as good as he was the first time. But even away from his injuries, he's been away for seven seasons. It's a big ask.

I feel that the respect for Robert Kubica's natural talent as a driver is one of the big forces behind all of the "If anyone could come back and be fast after so long with such an injury, it's him" talks & speculation. I too would like to see him back in F1 and prove people wrong, but we ("We" being the casual fans on these forums) really don't know much and in the end, our opinions don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

Also, one small slightly-OT thing about Nannini: I feel that even if his helicopter accident didn't happen and he had driven for Ferrari in 1992, I don't think he could've coaxed any real speed out of the Ferrari F92A; It was an extremely pitch-sensitive car that only really could've worked if the team had active suspension to keep the ride height at an optimum so that the trick underfloor Jean-Claude Migeot designed could work (Which of course, they didn't).

 

[TenEightyOne]

I feel that the respect for Robert Kubica's natural talent as a driver is one of the big forces behind all of the "If anyone could come back and be fast after so long with such an injury, it's him" talks & speculation. I too would like to see him back in F1 and prove people wrong, but we ("We" being the casual fans on these forums) really don't know much and in the end,

Absolutely, but his pace over two-race-distances at Hungary a few weeks ago suggested that he's still no slouch.

in the end, our opinions don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

How can this be right? We are the internet people!

 

[TenEightyOne]

Kubica to have two days testing with Williams to allow them to assess his ability/potential. BBC.

Aside from the obvious sponsor exposure from such a move it seems to me that he must still be a serious consideration. I genuinely believe that he could be faster than Massa as it stands now and far less unpleasant to work with than Paul di Resta.