Formula 1 2018-19 off season threadFormula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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LeGeNd-1
Which brings me back to my original question: is there any specific regulation that states teams MUST paint their cars?
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I don't think so, it's more for marketing purposes and to help smooth the bodywork finish. Carbon Fibre can sometimes not be as smooth as you'd want, and needs sanding down in places, so a paint job can be used to make the surface a consistent finish, rather than switching between smooth resin and bits that have been sanded.

Sometimes the teams have new Chassis' which aren't painted in case they're required, although I can only think of times this has happened in Formula E.
Hong-Kong-Formula-E-2016_17-Andretti-Frijns.jpg

july-30-2017-renault-edams-pilot-sebastian-buemi-9-during-the-qualifications-JNERMN.jpg

Sponsor logos go on it, because of the sponsors commitments, not the regulations.

A lot of the complex front wings don't get painted, especially with so many small and vital components that are expendable/vulnerable, it makes it not worth painting them, especially as it might infringe the aerodynamic properties of those small parts.
f1-front-wing-Williams-2018-FW41-740x387.jpg



EDIT: Here is the full statement about car liveries.
CAR LIVERY 9.1 The provisions of the Code relating to national colours shall not apply to the Championship. Both cars entered by a competitor must be presented in substantially the same livery at every Event, any significant change to this livery during a Championship season may only be made with the agreement of the Formula One Commission. In order that the cars of each team may be easily distinguished from one another whilst they are on the track, the on board cameras located above the principal roll structure of the first car must remain as it is supplied to the team and the second car must be predominantly fluorescent yellow. In order for drivers to be easily distinguished from one another whilst they are on the track, the crash helmet of each driver must, with the exception of one Event of the driver’s choice, be presented in substantially the same livery at every Event during a Championship season. A change to helmet livery will also be permitted if a driver changes team during a Championship season. 9.2 Each car will carry the race number of its driver as published by the FIA at the beginning of the season or the race number that has been allocated to his replacement under Article 26.1(b)(iii). This number must be clearly visible from the front of the car and on the driver’s crash helmet. Prior to the start of the 2014 World Championship season race numbers will be permanently allocated to drivers by ballot, such numbers must then be used by that driver during every Formula One World Championship Event he takes part in throughout his career in Formula 1. A driver’s career in Formula 1 will be deemed to have ended if he does not participate in an Event for two entire consecutive Championship seasons. Any new drivers, either at the start of or during a season, will also be allocated a permanent number in the same way. The only exception to this allocation process will be for the reigning World Champion who will have the option to use the number one. The number that was previously allocated to him will be reserved for him in subsequent seasons if he does not retain the title of World Champion. 9.3 The name or the emblem of the make of the car must appear on the front of the nose of the car and in either case be at least 25mm in its largest dimension. The name of the driver must appear on the external bodywork and be clearly legible.
 
According to remarks attributed to Hamilton, the midfield has "halved" the gap to the top runners. This means they won't be lapping the field up to 6th place like they did last year, ending the profound embarrassment of two classes of F1 cars, 6 fast ones and all the others a lap or more behind. Wow, what a great deal.
 
I hope that's true, but even in the past few seasons teams frequently did better in qualifying (mid-pack) than they did in the race. So I wonder if testing is the same. It's one thing to be faster in testing with a schedule, a plan, no stress of actually racing etc. But when you hit the track in anger, sometimes you're not nearly as fast. I do genuinely hope he's right though.

I know it sounds silly but I do wish the cars were less reliable today. Would make for some interesting races. Occasionally seeing a Renault or Force India on a podium due to engines giving up would be intriguing.
 
Dotini
According to remarks attributed to Hamilton, the midfield has "halved" the gap to the top runners. This means they won't be lapping the field up to 6th place like they did last year, ending the profound embarrassment of two classes of F1 cars, 6 fast ones and all the others a lap or more behind. Wow, what a great deal.
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Let's see how it's worked out by the mid-season when the big teams still have money to spend. Still, I hope you're right. HAAS are looking good and so are Renault, there were a few significantly-quick mid-compound times which could put them high in qualifying in Melbourne if they translate to soft-compound speed. McLaren too.

Williams... I hope this is their comeback season. I think it isn't but hope it is :)
 
Jimlaad43
I don't think so, it's more for marketing purposes and to help smooth the bodywork finish. Carbon Fibre can sometimes not be as smooth as you'd want, and needs sanding down in places, so a paint job can be used to make the surface a consistent finish, rather than switching between smooth resin and bits that have been sanded.

Sometimes the teams have new Chassis' which aren't painted in case they're required, although I can only think of times this has happened in Formula E.


Sponsor logos go on it, because of the sponsors commitments, not the regulations.

A lot of the complex front wings don't get painted, especially with so many small and vital components that are expendable/vulnerable, it makes it not worth painting them, especially as it might infringe the aerodynamic properties of those small parts.



EDIT: Here is the full statement about car liveries.
CAR LIVERY 9.1 The provisions of the Code relating to national colours shall not apply to the Championship. Both cars entered by a competitor must be presented in substantially the same livery at every Event, any significant change to this livery during a Championship season may only be made with the agreement of the Formula One Commission. In order that the cars of each team may be easily distinguished from one another whilst they are on the track, the on board cameras located above the principal roll structure of the first car must remain as it is supplied to the team and the second car must be predominantly fluorescent yellow. In order for drivers to be easily distinguished from one another whilst they are on the track, the crash helmet of each driver must, with the exception of one Event of the driver’s choice, be presented in substantially the same livery at every Event during a Championship season. A change to helmet livery will also be permitted if a driver changes team during a Championship season. 9.2 Each car will carry the race number of its driver as published by the FIA at the beginning of the season or the race number that has been allocated to his replacement under Article 26.1(b)(iii). This number must be clearly visible from the front of the car and on the driver’s crash helmet. Prior to the start of the 2014 World Championship season race numbers will be permanently allocated to drivers by ballot, such numbers must then be used by that driver during every Formula One World Championship Event he takes part in throughout his career in Formula 1. A driver’s career in Formula 1 will be deemed to have ended if he does not participate in an Event for two entire consecutive Championship seasons. Any new drivers, either at the start of or during a season, will also be allocated a permanent number in the same way. The only exception to this allocation process will be for the reigning World Champion who will have the option to use the number one. The number that was previously allocated to him will be reserved for him in subsequent seasons if he does not retain the title of World Champion. 9.3 The name or the emblem of the make of the car must appear on the front of the nose of the car and in either case be at least 25mm in its largest dimension. The name of the driver must appear on the external bodywork and be clearly legible.
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I mean run bare carbon with the smooth clearcoat over it. I can understand that most times, the extra funds from sponsors will probably be worth more laptime wise than that to be gained from leaving the car completely bare.

I found this article just from a quick google:

Type of color is very important. Paints are specially developed for carbon fiber, and specially developed for Formula 1. Paint must be light and have good covering properties to save the weight. One of the advantages of having a black car for example is that you need less layers of paint to cover black carbon fiber than a white car, so you save weight, probably worth up to half a tenth of a second per lap. Painting an F1 car white, requires three or four layers and one top coat, and uses around 4 kilos of paint. A black car needs only one base layer and one top coat, so saves around 30% of paint. At a race like Barcelona in pure performance terms that equates to four seconds over a 66 lap race, although the cars have to hit a minimum weight, it still confers a saving.
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http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/paintwork.html

Don't know how accurate those numbers are, but I've seen races won with the gap to second <4 secs, so it can definitely make a difference!
 
LeGeNd-1
Don't know how accurate those numbers are, but I've seen races won with the gap to second <4 secs, so it can definitely make a difference!
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Interesting 2019 article from McLaren about their own paint processes.

Bear in mind that if the team saves weight with the paint they just have to re-add the weight as ballast. Presumably the engineers are happy with the weight balance from the paint being spread across the whole tub and cover. Personally I think the real performance gain (given that the weight is only active as a balance issue) is the aerodynamic property of the surface.
 
TenEightyOne
Interesting 2019 article from McLaren about their own paint processes.

Bear in mind that if the team saves weight with the paint they just have to re-add the weight as ballast. Presumably the engineers are happy with the weight balance from the paint being spread across the whole tub and cover. Personally I think the real performance gain (given that the weight is only active as a balance issue) is the aerodynamic property of the surface.
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I was more thinking, the more weight they save, the greater the freedom in the amount and location of ballast that they can use (though I imagine there's a regulation limiting both of that as well). Or they could be more lenient with driver weight and not have some drivers starve themselves like a few years ago before they raised the minimum weight limit. Or they could maybe make engine parts a bit heavier and stronger to increase reliability *cough*Honda/Renault*cough*.
 
LeGeNd-1
I was more thinking, the more weight they save, the greater the freedom in the amount and location of ballast that they can use (though I imagine there's a regulation limiting both of that as well). Or they could be more lenient with driver weight and not have some drivers starve themselves like a few years ago before they raised the minimum weight limit. Or they could maybe make engine parts a bit heavier and stronger to increase reliability *cough*Honda/Renault*cough*.
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Driver weight is not part of the total weight for this season. For the ballast, as I said, it may well be that the engineers are quite happy with that 4kg being spread across the length of the car. In effect that 0.5% of the total mass nullifies itself in balance terms.
 
TenEightyOne
Driver weight is not part of the total weight for this season. For the ballast, as I said, it may well be that the engineers are quite happy with that 4kg being spread across the length of the car. In effect that 0.5% of the total mass nullifies itself in balance terms.
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Yeah I'm aware of driver weight being separated this season. That's why I said it's probably more useful a few years ago.

With ballast, I imagine that sometimes they wish they could add a few more kg to swing the balance of under/oversteer. As you know racing drivers are never happy :lol: Also there's proportionally more bodywork at the rear of the car so I imagine the paint weight is not evenly spread after all. I'm sure car setups are made with this rear weight bias in mind already, but ideally don't you want the perfect racecar to be as close as possible to 50:50 weight distribution? Hence any ability to add extra ballast to the front will help get closer to that ideal. Just from my gaming experience in rFactor though, even with maximum ballast weight placed as front as possible the best you can get is 44:56 weight.
 
LeGeNd-1
ideally don't you want the perfect racecar to be as close as possible to 50:50 weight distribution? Hence any ability to add extra ballast to the front will help get closer to that ideal. Just from my gaming experience in rFactor though, even with maximum ballast weight placed as front as possible the best you can get is 44:56 weight.
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An F1 car is a bit more complex, the faster it goes the more it weighs. I think that if that 0.5% of mass was better suited to a particular moment along the car's axis then we'd see even greater efforts to reduce the paint mass. We don't though, as I keep pointing out the engineers spending the money clearly feel it's the best solution. The colours are part of the brand and the brand makes the money that makes the car... and after all that they still have 150kg of ballast to distribute.
 
Jimlaad43
Drivers will now be awarded 1 point for setting the Fastest Lap in Formula 1.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fastest-lap-bonus-points-2019/4348938/

Discuss
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The proposal provides that only those finishing in the top 10 are eligible for the bonus point. It wouldn't have made much sense last year, since the top 6 usually lapped everyone else, making it logical for the 6th place driver (with nothing to lose) stop for a fresh set of tires and pick up an extra point. This year it is presumed the field is more closed up and equal, so I don't have a quibble with it. Old spice to hot up the action.
 
if anything, it will encourage teams to actually bother setting respectable lap records at the end of a race. There will inevitably be a point during the season where someone tries for the fastest lap and spins or crashes. I've always thought a point for fastest Lap would make sense, as what's the point in keeping stats for it if it's meaningless. At least a Pole Position helps you in the race.
 
Due to inflation in the points since the fifties, the value of a fastest lap should be proportionately raised to 3 from 1.

I'm not certain why the point for fastest lap was ever eliminated. But I will guess it was due to nervous anxiety by the FIA over safety, as they almost simultaneously reduced engine displacement from 2.5 liters to 1.5 liters.
 
I'll gloss over just how many fans I've seen who don't want this, contrary to their research, and just leave here what Keith Collantine said on the very idea of this a few days ago.

Would offering a point for fastest lap going lead to loads of drivers trying to set the fastest lap at the end of races? No, it will largely be a question of which of the few drivers in the fastest cars has enough of a gap behind them to pit for fresh tyres. That will most likely mean only one or two drivers – the rest will be aware there’s no point risking their car.

But the fact it is unlikely to make much of a difference isn’t a reason to support it. A slightly bad idea is still a bad idea.

Awarding a point for fastest lap would unnecessarily complicate the scoring system – most people can multiple 25 in their head far more easily than 26.

Worst, at a time when F1 is supposed to be concentrating on how to make it easier for drivers to follow each other closely and overtake, it has now proposed to give drivers an incentive not to tackle their rivals, but to back off, find some clear space and make a bid for fastest lap.

Is a grand prix supposed to be a race or a qualifying session? Those who have proposed this pointless gimmick (pun intended) haven’t thought it through.
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This rule is straight up awful. Take it from me as a man who has seen how badly wrong it can go, live and in the flesh. Good job some more interesting motorsport is already under way this year...
 
They used to have it back in the 50s but... I don't think we need it in this day and age.
 
Anything that can liven up the 'bore-fest' that F1 has become, is a welcome addition - bu--er it, drop the 1 point eligibility from the top10 finishers to everyone in the race.

Short of spec racing of top supercars for the drivers, ala BMW M1 pro cars, to satisfy the questioners of 'whose the quickest driver?' - which is what everyone, except the drivers, wants to know:

F1 needs 'dumbing down', if it can still contribute as a drivers championship rather than a constructors championship.
 
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Hmm... a points change to make it more exciting in the closing stages of a race eh?

That gives me an idea for an article...
 
This had me take a look at previous seasons.
We would have hypothetically had a few different champions
with this point-for-fastest-lap system. I researched as far back as 1970.


2008 - Final Standings
1. Hamilton - 98p
2. Massa - 97p

Including points for fastest laps
1. Massa - 100p
2. Hamilton - 99 p

-----------------------------------

1988 - Final Standings
1. Senna - 90p
2. Prost - 87p

Including points for fastest laps
1. Prost - 94p
2. Senna - 93p

----------------------------------

1986 - Final Standings
1. Prost - 72p
2. Mansell - 70p
3. Piquet - 69p

Including points for fastest laps
1. Piquet - 76p
2. Prost - 74p
3. Mansell - 74p

----------------------------------

1979 - Final Standings
1. Scheckter - 51p
2. Villeneuve - 47p

Including points for fastest laps
1. Villeneuve - 53p
2. Scheckter - 51p

----------------------------------

1976 - Final Standings
1. Hunt - 69p
2. Lauda - 68p

Including points for fastest laps
1. Lauda - 72p
2. Hunt - 71p
 
Back in the day, the fastest lap was good for a point and the win worth 8. That means today when the win is 25, the fastest lap should be 3 points.
I will not be happy until the FIA corrects their error. :grumpy:
 

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