The 2018 F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation threadFormula 1

[NFSCARBON1]

Hasn't been looking great for McLaren since they joined with Honda. It brought to light their flawed car design philosophy. It's obvious when another team can take a Honda engine (Toro Rosso) and clearly not be crap every single outing.

The single biggest mistake McLaren made was in 2009 when they gave Brawn GP permission to use the Mercedes engines. Without that, Brawn GP would most likely have been at the back of the grid (if not folded altogether) Mercedes wouldn't have bought the team, Hamilton possibly wouldn't have jumped ship and McLaren would still be the Mercedes works team.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The single biggest mistake McLaren made was in 2009 when they gave Brawn GP permission to use the Mercedes engines. Without that, Brawn GP would most likely have been at the back of the grid (if not folded altogether) Mercedes wouldn't have bought the team, Hamilton possibly wouldn't have jumped ship and McLaren would still be the Mercedes works team.

That's quite a way to look at history...

It wasn't McLaren's choice first off, and second several manufactures offered to supply Brawn and his team. The Mercedes engine fit best in the car. Mercedes were not the best engine that year, and as I've pointed out on the constructor thread Brawn had several things going for them aero wise that other teams didn't due to the night and day shift of rules from 2008 to 2009. Which even McLaren couldn't get right but a team formed from nothing almost could (and RBR). Also Mercedes seemed poised to join as a manufacture anyways, considering the number of dying teams in 2009 they had options.

But you have a point I will say, that McLaren has struggled (which I also said) for some time now.

 

[twitcher]

Stoked to hear about Kimi to Sauber....at least I got one of my silly season wishes

I think it’s a smart move, and with the pace Sauber has shown this year, I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility for Kimi to drag that car into the podium next year.

Also, Ferrari now have a reliable driver in the Sauber that they can use to test parts which they eventually put on the Ferrari. With Sauber’s wind tunnel, Ferrari now have double the aero testing capabilities.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Will be interesting to see what Kimi gets done at sauber

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Stoked to hear about Kimi to Sauber....at least I got one of my silly season wishes

I think it’s a smart move, and with the pace Sauber has shown this year, I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility for Kimi to drag that car into the podium next year.

I think it is a good move because it means that Kimi is not just a driver buy a partial owner claim as well. So he has the ability to help prosper the team beyond driving potentially which is good. Perhaps similar to a Lauda or Prost type situation. As for a podium next year? Perhaps but if we're basing it on this year's car, a lot of things would have to happen to his opponents for that to happen.

The Sauber may be improved and Kimi may be fast, but even the guy replacing him has struggled to crack the top five when fellow competitors have a bad day.

Also, Ferrari now have a reliable driver in the Sauber that they can use to test parts which they eventually put on the Ferrari. With Sauber’s wind tunnel, Ferrari now have double the aero testing capabilities.

That's not how it works and is quite illegal. Especially the wind tunnel part. They can send parts to be tested or approved if it is the engine, since that isn't a constructor piece.

 

[twitcher]

I think it is a good move because it means that Kimi is not just a driver buy a partial owner claim as well. So he has the ability to help prosper the team beyond driving potentially which is good. Perhaps similar to a Lauda or Prost type situation. As for a podium next year? Perhaps but if we're basing it on this year's car, a lot of things would have to happen to his opponents for that to happen.

The Sauber may be improved and Kimi may be fast, but even the guy replacing him has struggled to crack the top five when fellow competitors have a bad day.



That's not how it works and is quite illegal. Especially the wind tunnel part. They can send parts to be tested or approved if it is the engine, since that isn't a constructor piece.

I realize it’s not necessarily legal for Ferrari to use sauber’s facilities, but I think they’ll find some back channel ways of transferring info, or at least using the Sauber facilities to some benefit. With all the Ferrari employees ending up at Sauber, I just see it as inevetible.


Thinking about it further...next year, if the Sauber is fast enough (let’s say consistent top 8 in quali), could Ferrari use Kimi to interfere with the likes of merc and RB? Run really weird pit strategies that make him a rolling blockade for the enemies, who cleanly moves aside for a red car. Again, not entirely legal as far as I’m aware, but if it’s a pre-agreed upon arrangement set up over drinks and dinner at a country club, what can the FIA or FOM do to stop it?

 

[-Fred-]

Thinking about it further...next year, if the Sauber is fast enough (let’s say consistent top 8 in quali), could Ferrari use Kimi to interfere with the likes of merc and RB? Run really weird pit strategies that make him a rolling blockade for the enemies, who cleanly moves aside for a red car.

Yeah, good luck not making that extremely obvious to both the other teams and the FIA...

I can see potential fireworks at Ferrari next season. On one hand you've got the multiple WC with a bit of a superiority complex (but then name me one WC that wasn't like that) and the whole team built up around him, and on the other you have the fresh new kid with a boatload of talent, most likely very eager to show what he's made of. I very much doubt he'll be contempt with playing second fiddle and helping the #1 like every #2 driver at Ferrari since... pretty much always. I think sparks are going to fly.

 

[twitcher]

Yeah, good luck not making that extremely obvious to both the other teams and the FIA...

I can see potential fireworks at Ferrari next season. On one hand you've got the multiple WC with a bit of a superiority complex (but then name me one WC that wasn't like that) and the whole team built up around him, and on the other you have the fresh new kid with a boatload of talent, most likely very eager to show what he's made of. I very much doubt he'll be contempt with playing second fiddle and helping the #1 like every #2 driver at Ferrari since... pretty much always. I think sparks are going to fly.

It wouldn’t be any more or less obvious than the Sauber and Haas cars jumping out of the way of the red cars like they already have been doing this year. Any claim of foul play that anyone wants to make, Sauber/Haas just say that’s the race strategy they were on.

The FIA can’t force Kimi to fight Seb as hard as he fights Max or Lewis, and even if it’s completely obvious what is going on, I don’t think anyone can do anything about it. If they could find a paper trail of someone at Ferrari telling Sauber to do xyz, then maybe ya...but if it’s all agreed upon with winks and handshakes, there’s nothing anyone can do.

 

[Pupik]

Hopefully they are taking enough carbon fibre to allow their 🤬 to stay afloat.

If their victory in the pre-Canadian GP Rowing Basin Race was anything to go by, they'll be alright in that category.

 

[EngieDiesel]

I can see potential fireworks at Ferrari next season. On one hand you've got the multiple WC with a bit of a superiority complex (but then name me one WC that wasn't like that) and the whole team built up around him, and on the other you have the fresh new kid with a boatload of talent, most likely very eager to show what he's made of. I very much doubt he'll be contempt with playing second fiddle and helping the #1 like every #2 driver at Ferrari since... pretty much always. I think sparks are going to fly.

And to think, considering everything else that's changed so far this year it may well be the least dramatic thing to happen next season.

 

[Tired Tyres]

The single biggest mistake McLaren made was in 2009 when they gave Brawn GP permission to use the Mercedes engines. Without that, Brawn GP would most likely have been at the back of the grid (if not folded altogether) Mercedes wouldn't have bought the team, Hamilton possibly wouldn't have jumped ship and McLaren would still be the Mercedes works team.

Nothing at all about that has any affect in McLaren producing a good car.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I hope he goes out with a (metaphorical) bang rather than a whimper, it's always sad to see a great driver bobbling around the midfield for a couple of years before they finally go to be a commentator.

Kimi would do some great commentary.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Kimi would do some great commentary.

Bwaaaahhhhh... oh, they have start while I was having a ****.

 

[TheElbows]

Man, this is going to be more bizarre than the Rosberg bombshell a few seasons back.

Kimi to Sauber is bizarre. It's one thing to be old and leave, another to leave an extremely competitive seat. I wonder if he's "buying" part of Sauber, or if that was a gift to help convince him to leave without a fuss. "Hey, thanks for your time, here's a junior driving slot, but you can own some of the team..."

Leclerc, well we'll see. Loads of talented drivers choke in a top car. If he's fast we'll have a high school cat fight with him and Verstoopenpoopen (he's still in his teens right?).

Ricciardo and Kimi will be in cars who could compete with each other so we'll see some oddly recognizable names in the mid-pack. If we get a better driver in Haas they'll probably all end up together. I'm also still silently hoping Renault has some tricks up their sleeve (didn't they just build a massive new F1 headquarters/garage or some such?) and will be surprising.

Stroll will be wearing pink, no question...so sadly my favourite junior driver is still the one without a seat, Mr. Ocon. I do hope he ends up somewhere decent, and the Haas rumour would be cool - their car is great they just have some "meh" drivers. Need a little more excitement in that team.

Now all we need is for Lewis to win the WDC and then resign immediately thereafter...because why not.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Kimi's driver interview. Some informative answers, some very typical Kimi answers. Sky.

 

[FutureF1]

This silly season has to be one of the craziest considering the likes of Vandoorne and Ocon are pretty much guaranteed not to have a seat on the grid in 2019. I strongly recommend the FIA look into adding more cars to the grid. While the talent level of juniors is immense, I don’t think either Vandoorne or Ocon deserves to be booted. Both are, in my eyes, champions of the future

 

[TenEightyOne]

This silly season has to be one of the craziest considering the likes of Vandoorne and Ocon are pretty much guaranteed not to have a seat on the grid in 2019.

As I recall the term "silly season" refers to the rumours that gather pace during the mostly-newsless summer break. All those things you mentioned have actually happened

 

[twitcher]

As I recall the term "silly season" refers to the rumours that gather pace during the mostly-newsless summer break. All those things you mentioned have actually happened

I’ve seen the term used across multiple sports, for decades now, and it’s always a general term for the entire part of the season when new contracts are being signed...nothing specific about a few weeks on the F1 calander.

 

[twitcher]

Sorry for the DP, but came across tbis while drinking my morning coffee. Possible seat swap between Alonso and Johnson? That would be cool to see.



https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alonso-johnson-nascar-f1-switch/3175637/?nrt=54

Maybe at or around the Texas round? Having Jimmie help promote the USGP via a seat swap with Alonso could help bring in viewing numbers from people who might not normally tune in.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I’ve seen the term used across multiple sports, for decades now, and it’s always a general term for the entire part of the season when new contracts are being signed...nothing specific about a few weeks on the F1 calander.

Ah, I thought you were using it in its F1 context, that's why it came across as the wrong usage.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

This silly season has to be one of the craziest considering the likes of Vandoorne and Ocon are pretty much guaranteed not to have a seat on the grid in 2019. I strongly recommend the FIA look into adding more cars to the grid. While the talent level of juniors is immense, I don’t think either Vandoorne or Ocon deserves to be booted. Both are, in my eyes, champions of the future

A certain Mercedes Boss already said this should happen last week.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The BBC are suggesting that Ocon will be the reserve driver for Merc in 2019 and may get some Friday drives (situation dependent). Bottas' seat is free in 2020.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The BBC are suggesting that Ocon will be the reserve driver for Merc in 2019 and may get some Friday drives (situation dependent). Bottas' seat is free in 2020.

After Toto's outburst about how the rest of the paddock didn't have the "balls" as he put it, to do a deal and get Ocon a seat for 2019, this seemed like the only option. Also the fact that Ocon even said (along with Toto) that back in July they had two offers and then those two teams rescinded come end of August. So I would say that it's absolute that Ocon and perhaps Vandoorne will not get a seat next year full time and will be reservist/develop drivers.

I would also say that this more or less indicates all other seats that seem up in the air are taken. Williams was probably that other team and considering how they suddenly wont be using Merc gearboxes after having talked about it for quite some time this year of getting them...

I think that indicates both Ocon and Russell options aren't there. Who Williams will take in place of Stroll I haven't a clue. Kvyat seems most likely to go to STR since Marko said Buemi return was baseless especially when one stops to think about his FE and WEC contracts. Perez seems most likely to stay at FI, Haas seem more likely to keep both drivers. The only other grumblings are Giovannazi still having a shot at Sauber and potentially replacing Ericsson.

Everyone else is secure it would seem and even Hartley seems to have a shot at being retained.

 

[TenEightyOne]

After Toto's outburst about how the rest of the paddock didn't have the "balls" as he put it, to do a deal and get Ocon a seat for 2019

It seems that the detail is that he actually had verbal promises that were then reneged on. For ze Todonador zis is nicht gut.

 

[adb]

I mean, I don’t think verbal agreements in F1 are anything to go by, everybody is talking to everyone, and after Renault learned they could score Daniel, I’m not really shocked they backed out of Ocon deal, who is relatively unproven and would be yet another loan driver.

Toto only got himself to blame for this situation. If they really cared, I’m sure they could make Williams a reasonable offer, that would match at least one of their drivers’ “offering”.

And to not see the potential last year in buying Manor...

Really pity for Ocon, and then Toto staying other teams have no balls... disgusting really. I’m pretty sure that next year it will be “we’re very close in WCC, we can’t put in our car a guy who hasn’t raced for a year”

He should just let him go and focus 100% on making sure Russell gets a seat in 2020 or maybe striking a deal with Williams for next year

 

[TenEightyOne]

I mean, I don’t think verbal agreements in F1 are anything to go by

I'm not sure I'd believe that you'd made a verbal agreement with anyone in F1. Toto seemed to feel it that each other's word was good enough, then the Ricciardio surprise was sprung.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It seems that the detail is that he actually had verbal promises that were then reneged on. For ze Todonador zis is nicht gut.

Yeah I know why, I'm simply just saying that gentlemen agreement's and F1 have a history of being broken. I think Toto is a more man of his word type and thus expect others to be as true to their word as his. As noble as the idea sounds, it's a cut throat business he's more than aware of this, and for a group to say just change their mind without notice isn't surprising I think.

As for @adb I've seen this talk of "Manor" this and that and I'm curious cause it reads like one or two people on f1 websites like racefans. So how exactly and why exactly should Merc have bought Manor? It seems many still are sore about this because Manor was that underdog working person's team among other reasons. Aside from those feelings of emotion and not logic what else would Merc gain that they don't by helping FI?

 

[TenEightyOne]

So how exactly and why exactly should Merc have bought Manor?

I've always felt that the team had to close and its liabilities with it. Two of their drivers died in accidents in which failure of the "double-stop" safety mechanism was reported or claimed. I doubt anybody would invest money in a team that had the potential to be called to account (in a financial sense) if the representatives of either driver successfully claimed against them.

 

[Interstellar9]

Toto Wolff just has to put Ocon in Bottas' seat. He complains that the young guys do not have their chances but what did he and Merc when Nico Rosberg retired? They bought a river from Williams + Bottas isn't even a young driver anymore. They could have chosen Ocon or Wehrlein.

 

[DesertPenguin]

But the team is built around Hamilton and Bottas was the safest choice in that respect?