The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

[TexRex]

Don't know if sarcasm or not but will address the issue;

****ing right it was sarcasm. It was sarcasm laced copiously with cynicism.

genocide - apparenty not worth protesting.

Apparent to you.

You, who apparently wishes to deflect from the issue by presenting data for the number of people killed by cops, by race, but who fails to recognize that the data is flawed in that it doesn't account for those killed by police who can't be reasonably said to have been in imminent danger at the time of that killing.

You, who apparently doesn't care enough about the group you wave about in your apparent attempt to deflect from the issue to spell their name correctly.

Here's something that may not be apparent to you:

You don't get to decide what issues others take up and you better ****ing believe that you don't get to say how others feel about issues that aren't the issue they are presently taking up.

Meth head armed robber that theathened a pregnant woman with a gun to her abdomen (yeah, the facts are coming out now), killed unlawfuly by police;

He wasn't doing that at the time he was unlawfully killed by police. He was too busy crying. He was too busy suffering; struggling to breathe. He was too busy dying under the knee of a man who had previously sworn to protect, a man who kept that knee on his victim's neck for eight minutes and forty-six ****ing seconds.

George Floyd was arrested for that crime. George Floyd was convicted for that crime. George Floyd went to prison for that crime. George Floyd was in prison for that crime for a longer period of time than that which followed his release until his death.

The officer that killed George Floyd does not get to determine that the sentence he served was insufficient for the crime he committed.

George Floyd was arrested for passing counterfeit currency. Yes, George Floyd was likely high at the time of his arrest. Yes, George Floyd was likely drunk at the time of his arrest. George Floyd should have had the opportunity to receive a fair run through the criminal justice system for any crimes he may have committed leading up to his arrest, excluding any crimes for which he'd already been convicted, sentenced and served time.

If George Floyd posed a legitimate threat to the four arresting officers, his killing would have been unfortunate but justified. If George Floyd posed a legitimate threat to the four arresting officers, it likely would have resulted from gunshot(s) rather than one of those arresting officers kneeling on his neck for eight minutes and forty-six ****ing seconds as the other three arresting officers watched and one of whom questioned his superior multiple times over the manner of restraint.

let's raid for all it's worth.

There you go conflating those peacably protesting with those whose aim is to cause disruption through violence and destruction.

Nobody deserves to die, but some people make live hard for themsleves.

Everybody dies. Some of those people who die actually do deserve to die. Some of those people who deserve to die made life hard for themselves.

None of those who deserve to die after having made life hard for themselves should be denied justice.

Nobody should be denied justice. Not you. Not me. Not George Floyd. Not George Floyd's killer. Not those who cause disruption through violence and destruction. Not Uyghur Muslims in China.

Protest by all the freedoms given to you by your consitution. But when you enage in anarchy and ignore the rule of law you deserve what's coming, no matter your skin colour.

What do those protesting peacably have coming to them? Do they deserve it?

What about those not actually protesting at all, instead caring for those peacably protesting outside a church? Do they deserve to be bombarded with gas and/or smoke canisters so that a bigoted chonk, chump Trump can take a picture outside that church while brandishing a borrowed bible?

 

[Scaff]

My education in British history taugh me that it was our people that concluded slavery and expressed the same sentient on the american nation.

So that absolves us if all involvement in it?

Would I take a knee? What the **** for? Did my faimly's sacrifice to defeat a common evil mean nothing? Can any second or third (including valued European members of my family) gerneration British say that owned slaves? **** no.

It's highly likley that my ancestor had black slaves (centuries ago). Am I resposible for them?

What the actual **** are you on about?

Hey, before I lose your attention, let's not forget that the African American slave trade pales in signficace to the slave trade of Europeans by the Arab nations back in the old days.

Oh look whataboutery. Show me a statue of an Ottoman slave trader and I will be quite happy to call for its removal.

I'd like to conclude by adding that the current riots and protests over the unlawful killing of a human being, no matter their skin colour, is ****ing minor comapred to the real attrocites commited by government states that seems to be too much of a hard target.

More whataboutary, you seem to be under the idea it’s not possible to object to and campaign in regard to both (or even more)

Y'all go spend a year living under the rule of an oppressive, facsist, Chinese regime and then they'll be something to riot about... if you're even allowed to protest. Little thought for the people of HK right now? How many statues or shop fronts did they dececrate?

They petrol bombed police stations!

Oh and whataboutary again

Oh, maybe you mean the enedless list of modern iventions that shaped the modern world that came from Britain or in turn the US?

Nice western exceptionalism.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Y'all go spend a year living under the rule of an oppressive, facsist, Chinese regime and then they'll be something to riot about... if you're even allowed to protest. Little thought for the people of HK right now? How many statues or shop fronts did they dececrate?

Because Americans (and other westerners) have not experienced a truly authoritarian government, they don't have adequate grounds to protest? Hogwash. I read the first amendment as more of a tool to prevent the ascent of authoritarian governments...rather than a tool to fight one that is already in place. It's unfortunate that the Chinese don't have the means to forcefully voice their dissent. I think a year living under Chinese rule would actually encourage westerners to exercise their first amendment freedoms more, not less.

I wonder how Chinese dissidents feel:



Ah, ok.

The messed up stuff in the UK you refer to would be the abolishion of slaver? The industrial revolution the changed the world? Prey tell, at what point does histroy become "not useful"?

If anything was messed up, it brought us to our current state of living, and for one thing, that aint bad.

Oh, maybe you mean the enedless list of modern iventions that shaped the modern world that came from Britain or in turn the US?

Is the industrial revolution and the subsequent era of ceaseless technological development an unquestionable good?

 

[TexRex]

I'm against the peaceful protests in the UK turning into some of the violence we've witnessed over the past few days, it's especially shocking what happened to that horse-mounted WPC, (hope she makes a full recovery). I believe there's more to come out about what happened in that particular situation, and I believe the cause of it lands directly at the feet of some of the protestors.

Holy crap!

I realize extra effort is likely undertaken to ensure service animals are capable of handling situations over there as they are here, but I also have an idea just how easily horses can be rattled.

I share your sentiments regarding both the wellbeing of the rider and the individuals responsible being held accountable.

 

[8l23ub]

As a person of colour who was born in Britain in 1965, I believe that black people have jumped the gun on the rioting, they should at the very least allowed history to repeat itself by waiting for officer whatshisname to get away Scot free first, then cause some civil unrest, which will lead to some token reform at some point in the future

 

[TexRex]

Nice story about a peaceful protest, police professionalism and...a Karen.

Language warning. Profanity referenced in the article is censored (by way of a single omitted letter, which I'm given to understand doesn't satisfy the GTP AUP), however images depict uncensored profanity and profanity can be heard in video presented in the article.

https://www.insider.com/karen-black-lives-matter-florida-shane-meyers-protest-police-2020-6

Long story short:

Florida woman calls police to stop a solo protest on a street corner, citing "incitement to riot" and concerns about getting shot while driving. Police inform woman of protester's right to wield his sign peacefully as he has done. Protester reads aloud the message on his sign, one which contains profanity, and the woman, whose efforts have thus far failed, then plays the "children could see that" card. The protest is permitted to continue.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Children should see that 👍

 

[Submerged]

So that absolves us if all involvement in it?


What the actual **** are you on about?


Oh look whataboutery. Show me a statue of an Ottoman slave trader and I will be quite happy to call for its removal.


More whataboutary, you seem to be under the idea it’s not possible to object to and campaign in regard to both (or even more)


They petrol bombed police stations!

Oh and whataboutary again





Nice western exceptionalism.
/QUOTE]

What I believe @W3HS is trying to say, is that a place like China, which is very authoritain (sp?), far more than American or the United Kingdom is, he is trying to say that the government would easily make it a non-issue to the public by basically killing all the protestors and making sure no media was reporting on it.

I believe what @W3HS was trying to say that with the American and British system of media and freedom, it was a better way of protesting and allowing others that never had seen hardship, to see it and then rise up against it.

Also, @W3HS may have been trying to give an indication that while Black Lives Matter in the United States, honestly, in comparison to what goes else in the world with its continual depravity and apparent disregard for colour and respect to a fellow human being, it still continues in other countries. Shouldn't we also make it carry on into those other countries too?

The Arab Spring Rising didn't really work at that time, from what I gather.

 

[Scaff]

What I believe @W3HS is trying to say, is that a place like China, which is very authoritain (sp?), far more than American or the United Kingdom is, he is trying to say that the government would easily make it a non-issue to the public by basically killing all the protestors and making sure no media was reporting on it.

I believe what @W3HS was trying to say that with the American and British system of media and freedom, it was a better way of protesting and allowing others that never had seen hardship, to see it and then rise up against it.

Also, @W3HS may have been trying to give an indication that while Black Lives Matter in the United States, honestly, in comparison to what goes else in the world with its continual depravity and apparent disregard for colour and respect to a fellow human being, it still continues in other countries. Shouldn't we also make it carry on into those other countries too?

The Arab Spring Rising didn't really work at that time, from what I gather.

It’s whataboutary and as such is an attempt to discredit and downplay BLM using the false comparison of other issues.

As I quite clearly stated, it’s more than possible to campaign against multiple causes of injustice at once, and using one to attempt to minimise or dismiss another is both an affront to logic and insulting to those who have suffered.

To be honest I think your giving @W3HS far to much credit, given his rather telling, didn’t the western world invent everything good line, one normally trotted out by the far right.

 

[Submerged]

@Scaff, to be honest, I have actually worked over in China for a few years. Seeing what I saw over there and how the local people had to have a visa just to get to a city, I can see why Shem was trying to, at this time, say that there were bigger things to be fighting about.

Maybe it was not the right time to do it, but inequality has to be show all the time, doesn't it?

The only issue the outside world has, is that we will never know now that XinJing has an issue even though its never talked about. But it is... because if people ask you about it, but people don't talk about it, it becomes an issue, doesn't it?

Yes, it is what-about-ism, but does that deflect from the whole thing of making a worldwide focus on just black people in America when it really should be, racism shouldn't happen to any country and it should be about the person ability to do the job itself?

 

[TexRex]

@Scaff, to be honest, I have actually worked over in China for a few years. Seeing what I saw over there and how the local people had to have a visa just to get to a city, I can see why Shem was trying to, at this time, say that there were bigger things to be fighting about.

China is China. I find the manner in which China wields its power to be abhorrent. To the United States, I say, "Don't be like China."

I expect much more from my country than I do China. While I find goings-on in China to be abhorrent, there's nothing to say that I can't feel it more when it's so close to home.

Yes, it is what-about-ism, but does that deflect from the whole thing of making a worldwide focus on just black people in America when it really should be, racism shouldn't happen to any country and it should be about the person ability to do the job itself?

Yes. Yes it does. Maybe the focus on what's going on in the United States should be limited to the United States, but nobody gets to tell others what issues they can and can't take up.

Also, it's painfully obvious that people are just jumping onto the sexy issue as an excuse to perpetrate their acts of violence and destruction. This hurts the cause by giving opponents to the cause ammunition to use against it as many people, including @W3HS, have done. [Edit: This user used the misdeeds against the cause. That wasn't an allegation that this user is opposed to the cause.]

Frankly, I feel that playing the China card does a disservice to those experiencing what the people playing that particular card are trying to invoke. The people playing that card are saying that those suffering are just a tool to make a demented point.

 

[Submerged]

@TexRex,

Your observation of "China is China"

doesn't actually help in the grand scheme of things in what @W3HS was trying to say,

The case that you "expect much more from your country" but it is failing you greatly in killing minorities other than white people brings this into light.

The problem is , when its about a police brutality thread, it ends up not being about the US, it ends up being a WorldWide thread about any racial injustice

 

[ryzno]

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/ba...police-officer-charged-in-george-floyds-death

 

[TexRex]

@TexRex,

Your observation of "China is China"

doesn't actually help in the grand scheme of things in what @W3HS was trying to say,

Maybe stop trying to explain what another user meant by what they said and have another look at what they actually said.

I don't accept a person walking back what they themselves said in an attempt to spin it as less bad, so what makes you think I'd accept that of one who presumes to do it for another?

The message wasn't "we are all children of the same Earth Mother," it was "you hypocrites are crying because a black criminal got killed but ignore these innocent people in China"; the user literally called others hypocrites, albeit without a vowel, in an attempt to suggest they don't get to choose which issue they take up, while at the very same time suggesting how people feel--as a collective that they very much are not--about something else.

The case that you "expect much more from your country" but it is failing you greatly in killing minorities other than white people brings this into light.

What?! What is this? What does this mean?

You called me rude for politely asking you to explain something that made little sense, even to the point that I accounted for the possibility that you may not be a native English speaker regardless of your location that I didn't know at the time to be the UK, and you come to me now with this...disjointed...what...what even is this?

I ****ing love my country. It's because of my love for my country that I'm ****ing pissed those who are tasked with protecting people are instead killing people unjustly and ****ing getting away with it. I want it to ****ing stop!

The problem is , when its about a police brutality thread, it ends up not being about the US, it ends up being a WorldWide thread about any racial injustice

Absolutely. We can even get rid of the racial bit.

Thing is...we're back to an individual saying a group of people--a group that doesn't even exist as a singular entity--feels some way about one thing but not another.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Saying that we shouldn't be caring about this issue because of the oppression going on in China is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Yes, China is a fascist regime that does a lot of horrible things, but we can't ignore the systemic racism going on in the US. It's a real issue, it's a serious issue and it's one that we have to fix for the good of the nation's people. Saying that the injustice is "minor" is a massive insult to all black people who have been murdered at the hands of scummy white policemen. If it was minor, we wouldn't be seeing these protests.

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff, to be honest, I have actually worked over in China for a few years. Seeing what I saw over there and how the local people had to have a visa just to get to a city, I can see why Shem was trying to, at this time, say that there were bigger things to be fighting about.

It's an invalid argument unless you honestly believe it's not possible to campaign against more than one thing at a time.

Maybe it was not the right time to do it, but inequality has to be show all the time, doesn't it?

And you don;t do that by using one area of inequality to shut down perfectly valid discussion about another area of inequality!

The only issue the outside world has, is that we will never know now that XinJing has an issue even though its never talked about. But it is... because if people ask you about it, but people don't talk about it, it becomes an issue, doesn't it?

It's not 'never talked about', that's an utterly false statement to make.

Yes, it is what-about-ism, but does that deflect from the whole thing of making a worldwide focus on just black people in America when it really should be, racism shouldn't happen to any country and it should be about the person ability to do the job itself?

If you hadn't noticed it's not putting a world-wide focus on "just black people in America" (but you really should read that back to yourself and see just how that actually sounds), its about racial inequality worldwide, it's given a voice to marginalised people around the globe, particularly those in black communities.

You and @W3HS are both presenting a false dilemma (a form of logical fallacy), @W3HS is doing it quite transparently to try and shut down support for minorities in the BAME community, that to me reads as racist, plain and simple. Maybe its time you stopped trying to speak for @W3HS and tried speaking for yourself, that way we can get a better picture of where exactly you stand on the issue? As right now you appear to be standing very firmly on the side of those who would close down BAME voices.

 

[W3H5]

@W3HS is doing it quite transparently to try and shut down support for minorities in the BAME community, that to me reads as racist, plain and simple.

I’ve never discriminated against or disliked anyone because of the colour of their skin or ethnicity. I wasn’t trying to shut anyone down, so I’m sorry if it came across that way, but I really don’t feel like people protesting in the modern western world about major inequality and oppression really understand how good they have it in our civilised societies.

It’s not just black folk who are protesting, it’s people from every race, and I think they’re all going about it in the wrong manor. That’s just my opinion though.

As for me being racist, perhaps I am. I’m only attracted to Asian women, black and white girls just don’t cut it for me. And I certainly think modern western culture is far better than most others (including the one I currently live around), which would make me xenophobic, but I hold my hands up to that in admission.

Isn’t it the obvious racist thing for me to say I have a Jamaican brother, Thai wife & daughter, Chinese stepmother, and plenty of other races in my family, so I won’t say that. People are nice or dicks no matter what their ethnicity and should be judged singularly on their actions.

The R word doesn’t scare me or make me feel terrible and shameful because I know that skin colour and ethnicity isn’t a factor to me. These days it’s hard to know the definition of racism since anyone can be racist for even the most minor things.
It’s OK to be white, right? Is that racist? All lives matter, do they not? Or is that racist? I’m proud of my white heritage (but not necessarily my pale Irish skin that roasts on an overcast day). Can I sing the N word that’s in a song or does that make me a racist?

To reiterate my point; a dude is dead, shouldn’t be, but is. Did over use of force kill him? Yeah. Will protesting against police brutality change anything for the good*? Probably not in our life time.

*I read headlines about defunding the police in certain areas. Good luck with your purge if that goes ahead.

 

[UKMikey]

It’s OK to be white, right? Is that racist? All lives matter, do they not? Or is that racist? I’m proud of my white heritage (but not necessarily my pale Irish skin that roasts on an overcast day). Can I sing the N word that’s in a song or does that make me a racist?

I hope your singing voice isn't as tone deaf as this post appears to be.

What part of the worldwide protests by people of all races gives you the impression that people think it's not OK to be white or that anyone else's life doesn't matter? Smdh.

 

[W3H5]

I hope your singing voice isn't as tone deaf as thismpost appears to be.

I can’t sing for toffee.

 

[Scaff]

I’ve never discriminated against or disliked anyone because of the colour of their skin or ethnicity. I wasn’t trying to shut anyone down, so I’m sorry if it came across that way, but I really don’t feel like people protesting in the modern western world about major inequality and oppression really understand how good they have it in our civilised societies.

So they should shut up and just accept it?

As that's exactly as it reads, and comes across as a view based very much on privilege.

'My life's fine, so what are the rest of you complaining about!'

It’s not just black folk who are protesting, it’s people from every race, and I think they’re all going about it in the wrong manor. That’s just my opinion though.

What is the correct, approved method of protest? what if that doesn't work?

As for me being racist, perhaps I am. I’m only attracted to Asian women, black and white girls just don’t cut it for me. And I certainly think modern western culture is far better than most others (including the one I currently live around), which would make me xenophobic, but I hold my hands up to that in admission.

The question answers itself.

Isn’t it the obvious racist thing for me to say I have a Jamaican brother, Thai wife & daughter, Chinese stepmother, and plenty of other races in my family, so I won’t say that. People are nice or dicks no matter what their ethnicity and should be judged singularly on their actions.

The R word doesn’t scare me or make me feel terrible and shameful because I know that skin colour and ethnicity isn’t a factor to me. These days it’s hard to know the definition of racism since anyone can be racist for even the most minor things.

Skin colour and ethnicity is a factor to you, you've said as much a few sentences ago!

It’s OK to be white, right? Is that racist? All lives matter, do they not? Or is that racist? I’m proud of my white heritage (but not necessarily my pale Irish skin that roasts on an overcast day).

I'm white, it's perfectly fine to be white, it's not perfectly fine to ignore the privilege that brings. All lives do matter, but saying that Black Live Matter doesn't invalidate that, its the exact same false dilemma you have repeatedly used in this thread. Do you also call out people saying that the rainforests need saving with 'all forests matter'? Do you call out people reading money for breast cancer with 'all cancers matter'? If not then yes responding with 'all lives matter' is indeed racist. as for proud of your white heritage, what exactly does that even mean and what part did you play in it to be proud of it. Be proud of the accomplishments you have made, don't hang on the false pride of the coat-tails of others, as it may well burn you when those coat-tails turn out to be stained.

Can I sing the N word that’s in a song or does that make me a racist?

You're white so yes it does.

To reiterate my point; a dude is dead, shouldn’t be, but is. Did over use of force kill him? Yeah. Will protesting against police brutality change anything for the good*? Probably not in our life time.

*I read headlines about defunding the police in certain areas. Good luck with your purge if that goes ahead.

Did protesting for gay-rights change nothing? Did women suffrage change nothing? Did campaigning against the apartheid South African state do nothing? Apathy is the refuge of the privileged.

 

[Famine]

Can I sing the N word that’s in a song or does that make me a racist?

In private? Sure, go nuts. In public... you can take the chance if you want to.

I put together this guide to help people confused about offensive terms:

It's an interesting, but moot point. For the avoidance of doubt, here's how using offensive terms works:

Rule 0:
(a): Anyone can take offence at anything, at any time, and for any reason.
(b): If a term has a long history of being used to abuse a group of people, particularly when it comes to oppression, it's considered offensive - rather than something to which offence can be taken (see 0a)

Rule 1:
(a): Only you can decide what is offensive to you.
(b): Other people don't get to decide what is offensive to you.
(c): Only other people can decide what is offensive to them.
(d): You don't get to decide what is offensive to other people.

Rule 2:
(a): If a group decides that a term is offensive to that group (as per 0b), it is offensive to that group.
(b): Not all members of a group (2a) have to agree with that classification (per 1a,b) at all times.
(c): If you don't belong to the group (2a) affected by the term (0b), whether you agree with the classification or not is not relevant (per 1a,b,c,d) because the term does not affect you.

Rule 3:
(a): If you do belong to the group affected by the term (0b,2a), your use of the term in public is subject to Rule 1.
(b): If you don't belong to that group (2a), your use of the term (0b) in public is subject to 1c, 1d.
(c): In a private conversation, use of the term (0b) is subject to any communicated arrangement between parties of Rule 1.

Rule 4:
Private organisations may have their own rules on the term, to which employees and members are subject.


A black rapper using this word in a song is 3a. A non-black actor using the word in a film is 3b. In both cases, people of any racial grouping can choose to take offence or not to take offence, but no group gets to say that other groups can or can't enjoy the song/film, because 1b. This is why rappers can use it, Mike Colter can use it in Luke Cage, Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker can use it in Rush Hour, Samuel L Jackson and Leonardo di Caprio can use it in Django Unchained, Trey Parker can use it in South Park, and Chris Rock can use it in that famous (and excellent) stand-up skit - and why we can all give our money to these people for doing so, or choose not to.

Kyle Larson's issue is he thought he was 3c (having a private conversation with pre-agreed use of the term), but he was actually 3b and broadcasting it to a few hundred thousand people, falling foul of Rule 4.

Of course you don't have to agree with NASCAR's response, or CGR, or McDonald's, or any of his other sponsors who may have dropped him. Their Rule 4 policy likely hinges on employees avoiding these terms because it's bad for business to allow terms of offence against groups of would-be customers. But it doesn't matter whether you agree or not if you aren't black, because of 2c - it's not your word to be offended by or not.

And I'm not black.

 

[Scaff]

I would say that Trump has finally lost it, but how do you actually tell that?

 

[W3H5]

You're white so yes it does.

Ironic that based on the colour of my skin, saying a certain word makes me racist.

Would it be fair to assume that nobody outside of travelling folk from island can use the word “pikey” under the same logic?

 

[Scaff]

Ironic that based on the colour of my skin, saying a certain word makes me racist.

Would it be fair to assume that nobody outside of travelling folk from island can use the word “pikey” under the same logic?

Is it really that difficult a concept to grasp?

Oh, and it's not ironic at all, you just seem pissed that using a racist term makes you a racist.

You are also free to use it whenever and wherever you like, but you will not be free of the consequences of doing so.

 

[HenrySwanson]

It's a real issue, it's a serious issue and it's one that we have to fix for the good of the nation's people. Saying that the injustice is "minor" is a massive insult to all black people who have been murdered at the hands of scummy white policemen. If it was minor, we wouldn't be seeing these protests.

Do you have statistics for how many have been "murdered at the hands of scummy white policemen"?

 

[Joey D]

It’s not just black folk who are protesting, it’s people from every race, and I think they’re all going about it in the wrong manor.

It's because people of all races are sick of this 🤬. Cops are abusing their power and getting away with it, people are tired of seeing that and they're standing up.

I'm curious what you think the right way to go about it is? I get looting and burning are probably not the right way to do it, but most of the protests are peaceful now that the troublemakers have been weeded out.

It’s OK to be white, right? Is that racist? All lives matter, do they not? Or is that racist? I’m proud of my white heritage

Yes, it's OK to be white and it's OK to be proud of your heritage. I'm very proud of my Scottish and Norse heritage. That doesn't mean you overlook what's going on in the world though. And yes, all lives do matter, but right now, in the US at least, black lives need support. It doesn't mean other lives don't matter, it just means that some of our fellow humans with different colored skin are having their rights violated.

In the past three months, there have been three high profile killings of unarmed blacks, two at the hands of cops and one at the hands of overzealous rednecks. By now we all know the series of events with George Floyd, but Breonna Taylor was killed in her bed during a no-knock raid by police and her boyfriend used his legally licensed firearm to protect himself and Taylor. This was all over suspicion that the apartment was being used to receive packages (as in FedEx type) that may have contained drugs. The other is Ahmaud Arbery who was effectively lynched by some racist rednecks. His only crime? Running while black.

To reiterate my point; a dude is dead, shouldn’t be, but is. Did over use of force kill him? Yeah. Will protesting against police brutality change anything for the good*? Probably not in our life time.

It's brought serious attention to the issue and cities are starting to do something about it. Across the US several municipalities are looking into police reform. They're introducing bills, punishing bad cops, and listening to the public. Protesting works if you stick with it and are loud enough. Rioting doesn't help the cause, but as I said, that's largely died down across the nation in favor of people simply taking to the streets to march with signs.

 

[TexRex]

...I really don’t feel like people protesting in the modern western world about major inequality and oppression really understand how good they have it in our civilised societies.

Countless people* unjustly killed by those tasked with protecting people, and those killers getting away with it over and over and over and over and over, is indicative of a civilized society? We're ****ed.

Still...you don't get to decide what issues other people take up, and you better ****ing believe you don't get to say how people collectively feel about other issues, simply because they are presently taking another up, when they don't even exist as a collective. The only way such a collective exists is if you are a part of it, and you thinking differently than you unrightly saying others think is proof that no such collective exists.

*They're literally uncountable. Records of these events are not kept in an effort to conceal the events and prevent counting of the events.

I put together this guide to help people confused about offensive terms:

It's an interesting, but moot point. For the avoidance of doubt, here's how using offensive terms works:

Rule 0:
(a): Anyone can take offence at anything, at any time, and for any reason.
(b): If a term has a long history of being used to abuse a group of people, particularly when it comes to oppression, it's considered offensive - rather than something to which offence can be taken (see 0a)

Rule 1:
(a): Only you can decide what is offensive to you.
(b): Other people don't get to decide what is offensive to you.
(c): Only other people can decide what is offensive to them.
(d): You don't get to decide what is offensive to other people.

Rule 2:
(a): If a group decides that a term is offensive to that group (as per 0b), it is offensive to that group.
(b): Not all members of a group (2a) have to agree with that classification (per 1a,b) at all times.
(c): If you don't belong to the group (2a) affected by the term (0b), whether you agree with the classification or not is not relevant (per 1a,b,c,d) because the term does not affect you.

Rule 3:
(a): If you do belong to the group affected by the term (0b,2a), your use of the term in public is subject to Rule 1.
(b): If you don't belong to that group (2a), your use of the term (0b) in public is subject to 1c, 1d.
(c): In a private conversation, use of the term (0b) is subject to any communicated arrangement between parties of Rule 1.

Rule 4:
Private organisations may have their own rules on the term, to which employees and members are subject.


A black rapper using this word in a song is 3a. A non-black actor using the word in a film is 3b. In both cases, people of any racial grouping can choose to take offence or not to take offence, but no group gets to say that other groups can or can't enjoy the song/film, because 1b. This is why rappers can use it, Mike Colter can use it in Luke Cage, Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker can use it in Rush Hour, Samuel L Jackson and Leonardo di Caprio can use it in Django Unchained, Trey Parker can use it in South Park, and Chris Rock can use it in that famous (and excellent) stand-up skit - and why we can all give our money to these people for doing so, or choose not to.

Kyle Larson's issue is he thought he was 3c (having a private conversation with pre-agreed use of the term), but he was actually 3b and broadcasting it to a few hundred thousand people, falling foul of Rule 4.

Of course you don't have to agree with NASCAR's response, or CGR, or McDonald's, or any of his other sponsors who may have dropped him. Their Rule 4 policy likely hinges on employees avoiding these terms because it's bad for business to allow terms of offence against groups of would-be customers. But it doesn't matter whether you agree or not if you aren't black, because of 2c - it's not your word to be offended by or not.

And I'm not black.

That. Is. Awesome.

 

[Sprite]

Do you have statistics for how many have been "murdered at the hands of scummy white policemen"?

I cant seem to find data which drills down to White Officers maybe someone else will have more luck finding those statistics. However Year on year the Washington Post have kept a record of fatal shootings (so not the killings by other means) by police.

Drilling into their database just using last year as a figure, 1004 killed (that is all races and all sexes) There were 249 black people killed (both sexes). However killings only tells half the story as this just isn't about deaths this is about systematic targeting of Black peoples by the police and not just in the USA.

The Database is here >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...ings-database/?itid=lk_interstitial_manual_10

The documentary 13th has some really eye opening information about what is going on and why.

 

[TexRex]

I cant seem to find data which drills down to White Officers maybe someone else will have more luck finding those statistics. However Year on year the Washington Post have kept a record of fatal shootings (so not the killings by other means) by police.

View attachment 928715

Drilling into their database just using last year as a figure, 1004 killed (that is all races and all sexes) There were 249 black people killed (both sexes). However killings only tells half the story as this just isn't about deaths this is about systematic targeting of Black peoples by the police and not just in the USA.

The Database is here >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...ings-database/?itid=lk_interstitial_manual_10

The documentary 13th has some really eye opening information about what is going on and why.

Unless I'm not reading it correctly, it doesn't highlight recorded unjust killings by police. The unjust killings are what I'm most interested in, as the killing of a suspect who represented a legitimate, imminent threat to the arresting officer(s) is unfortunate but justified.

 

[Sprite]

Unless I'm not reading it correctly, it doesn't highlight recorded unjust killings by police. The unjust killings are what I'm most interested in, as the killing of a suspect who represented a legitimate, imminent threat to the arresting officer(s) is unfortunate but justified.

You’re correct, it doesn’t highlight or separate any of them. Being a lefty and British myself, any killing to me is unjust, but hey I’m not here to judge anyone’s views.