The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

[NotThePrez]

Should tack on rioting, looting and murdering. It's all part of the real world. Perhaps we don't need policing at all.

Excellent point as well.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Excellent point as well.

I'm just scratching my head as to where that real world argument is going. Is there supposed to be a certain threshold where we can attribute things to the real word before it becomes a problem we can try to fix?

 

[HenrySwanson]

George was at least the third person to die in similar circumstances after Eric Garner and John Neville. Perhaps people felt that enough was enough.

Also, maybe concerns over civil rights in other countries fail to gain traction because the protesters feel they don't have so much of a personal stake in what goes on in say China. Expecting them to care more about these geographically remote causes than about what they feel is more likely to threaten them in their own backyard would be more deserving of your derogatory description of them as "virtue signalling".

That's....selfish.

Shouldn't the media and businesses draw attention to this if they feel it's the moral thing to do? In the press's case, when did reporting the news become "virtue signalling"?

They should....as long as they recognise and sound out other (sometimes bigger) causes with the same fervour.

 

[UKMikey]

That's....selfish

That's... realistic. Trying to decide which causes people should get involved with by waving whataboutism in their face just doesn't work and sounds like a thinly veiled attempt to stop them participating in a cause you don't believe in. You don't get to make the rules.

 

[Joey D]

They should....as long as they recognise and sound out other (sometimes bigger) causes with the same fervour.

Why? While I think what's going on in China is awful and I think the Chinese government is committing genocide, what can I do about it? Ok, say I protest about it. Guess what? China doesn't care what I do, not even a little bit. Hell, with what I've typed online regarding China I'm guessing I'd be denied entry to the country if I even went there.

With police brutality in America, I can actually do something about it. While I'm not going to protest because being around a bunch of people right now isn't the safest thing, I have contacted my local government leaders among other things. I can't very well ring up Emperor Whinnie the Pooh and tell him to quit having his government murder people, but I can ring up the mayor's office in SLC and tell them to quit having their goons murder people. And we've even seen change here as well, due to the police brutality protests, we are seeing local leaders actually do something about it, or at least attempt too.

 

[DesertPenguin]

In the simplest of terms, it's learning how and when to pick your battles. Something that comes with maturity.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Why? While I think what's going on in China is awful and I think the Chinese government is committing genocide, what can I do about it? Ok, say I protest about it. Guess what? China doesn't care what I do, not even a little bit. Hell, with what I've typed online regarding China I'm guessing I'd be denied entry to the country if I even went there.

With police brutality in America, I can actually do something about it. While I'm not going to protest because being around a bunch of people right now isn't the safest thing, I have contacted my local government leaders among other things. I can't very well ring up Emperor Whinnie the Pooh and tell him to quit having his government murder people, but I can ring up the mayor's office in SLC and tell them to quit having their goons murder people. And we've even seen change here as well, due to the police brutality protests, we are seeing local leaders actually do something about it, or at least attempt too.

That was in response to what businesses and media should do.

Some businesses are happy to sign up to BLM while not really doing much in support for actual workers they employ

 

[Dotini]

In the simplest of terms, it's learning how and when to pick your battles. Something that comes with maturity.

Agreed. You should never enunciate, act on or defend your principles when in the minority or losing side, but should only commit yourself when you think you will win and benefit. This is the first rule of politics.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Agreed. You should never enunciate, act on or defend your principles when in the minority or losing side, but should only commit yourself when you think you will win and benefit. This is the first rule of politics.

Please don't twist my words to your liking. That's not what I said and you know it.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Chicago police officers are retiring at a more rapid pace, which may lead to under-staffing. I'm expecting this to continue and Chicago is probably not the only place with the issue.

https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news...d-pace-raise-concerns-of-staffing-shortfalls/

 

[DesertPenguin]

Good. We don't want racist pigs.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

That's a pretty broad brush.

 

[DesertPenguin]

That's a pretty broad brush.

Good. We don't want racist pigs.

 

[ryzno]

Good. We don't want racist pigs.

I'm gonna pull a "your kind" and ask for a "citation needed" on that one sir.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I'm gonna pull a "your kind" and ask for a "citation needed" on that one sir.

Citation of what? That people don't want racist pigs as cops? Turn on your TV. Watch a live stream. You see those protests that this topic is made for? That's your citation.

 

[ryzno]

Citation of what? That people don't want racist pigs as cops? Turn on your TV. Watch a live stream. You see those protests that this topic is made for? That's your citation.

From your post I take it you feel all the officers retiring are racist.
Citation needed.

 

[Carbonox]

Good. We don't want racist pigs.

Good. We don't want racist pigs.

Someone call the repairman, we got a broken record player in the building.

 

[huskeR32]

From your post I take it you feel all the officers retiring are racist.

Clearly you're interpreting his statement as an opinion rather than a statement of fact. Which means this...

Citation needed.

...is unnecessary.

 

[TexRex]

I'm gonna pull a "your kind" and ask for a "citation needed" on that one sir.

Do I have to go back to putting an opinion disclaimer again? I mean this is the opinions section.

I'll add that it's not an opinion that I share. I'd prefer people--indeed police--were not racist, but that seems an unreasonable goal. I'd settle for people who don't use their beliefs as motivation or justification for violating the rights of others. I maintain that belief itself is benign and it takes an individual willing to act on those beliefs for the rights of others to be violated. Among those is the right to justice, of which even criminals are deserving.

I also don't agree with the apparent implication that the police vacating their positions--or even police as a whole--are racist. I suspect they're leaving because of widespread anti-police sentiment, which is itself a case of chickens coming home to roost...bawk bawk. A light has been cast on a culture that protects bad actors from being held accountable for their actions.

 

[McLaren]

Good. We don't want racist pigs.

I'm not so sure it's definitively that. Half of Chicago's police force is non-white: a quarter is Hispanic, 1/5th is Black. It's probably within' reason that while some are likely retiring b/c they're racist or similar attitude, many could just as easily be retiring for various other reasons.

 

[Danoff]

I'm not so sure it's definitively that. Half of Chicago's police force is non-white: a quarter is Hispanic, 1/5th is Black. It's probably within' reason that while some are likely retiring b/c they're racist or similar attitude, many could just as easily be retiring for various other reasons.

I'll agree that many police officers may be retiring early for other reasons (like what a crap time it is to be a police officer). But I will say that one of the most racist people I have ever met happens to be Hispanic. That's not to say Hispanic people are racist, but rather to say that Hispanic people can absolutely be racist, as can Black people of course.

 

[DesertPenguin]

And even if they aren't racists themselves, they're aware of the stigma right now and don't want to be associated with it.

 

[TexRex]

I'll agree that many police officers may be retiring early for other reasons (like what a crap time it is to be a police officer). But I will say that one of the most racist people I have ever met happens to be Hispanic. That's not to say Hispanic people are racist, but rather to say that Hispanic people can absolutely be racist, as can Black people of course.

Racism, or simply sectarianism, definitely doesn't require the individual who holds those feelings to be...anything. Well, anything other than bigoted.

 

[Danoff]

Racism, or simply sectarianism, definitely doesn't require the individual who holds those feelings to be...anything. Well, anything other than bigoted.

Interestingly... one of the most sexist (anti-female) people I know is a woman. Of course that's because she's deeply psychologically damaged and uses sexism to escape abuse. But still, she is the most sexist. She has told me, clearly, explicitly, that women should not have a right to vote.

 

[TexRex]

Interestingly... one of the most sexist (anti-female) people I know is a woman. Of course that's because she's deeply psychologically damaged and uses sexism to escape abuse. But still, she is the most sexist. She has told me, clearly, explicitly, that women should not have a right to vote.

Switch those to homophobic and gay, and remove the bit about the right to vote, and that perfectly describes someone with whom I'm familiar. I have it on good authority that it's the result of physical and verbal abuse in his youth.

Edit: Not to over-generalize (he says, preparing to over-generalize), but people suck.

 

[Danoff]

Switch those to homophobic and gay, and remove the bit about the right to vote, and that perfectly describes someone with whom I'm familiar. I have it on good authority that it's the result of physical and verbal abuse in his youth.

Edit: Not to over-generalize (he says, preparing to over-generalize), but people suck.

Sorry to hear that, but not too surprised it's relatable. People develop some strange and incredibly destructive coping mechanisms. Psychology is super messy.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I'll agree that many police officers may be retiring early for other reasons (like what a crap time it is to be a police officer).

I think that's the main reason. They are weighing their options and the cons to sticking it out have increased. I would probably heavily consider early retirement too, if I was in their shoes.

 

[Dotini]

Slow progress in the rioting/arson situation at Portland.
https://apnews.com/d640afdd85404f0b7ffde44eb75f9512

 

[TexRex]

I have a broadly favorable view of the police, but there's simply no denying (if you're reasonable; I think some people support them blindly, and I suspect some of that support is actually because others are critical of them) that there's been a bad element for what I suspect is a very long time. There are those who have done harm directly and there are those who have kept it quiet; it's why I've repeatedly brought up Tony Timpa.

I don't support de-funding. I think de-militarization is a necessity, and with that comes reduced funding requirements. I think better training is necessary, and that costs money, and I think the result would be a force of individuals actually deserving of increased pay.

I think the most important thing is doing away with the system that keeps those who have perpetrated acts against the members of the public on the force.

 

[Dotini]

I have a broadly favorable view of the police, but there's simply no denying (if you're reasonable; I think some people support them blindly, and I suspect some of that support is actually because others are critical of them) that there's been a bad element for what I suspect is a very long time. There are those who have done harm directly and there are those who have kept it quiet; it's why I've repeatedly brought up Tony Timpa.

I don't support de-funding. I think de-militarization is a necessity, and with that comes reduced funding requirements. I think better training is necessary, and that costs money, and I think the result would be a force of individuals actually deserving of increased pay.

I think the most important thing is doing away with the system that keeps those who have perpetrated acts against the members of the public on the force.

Some, really many very sensible thoughts here, IMHO.

One of the biggest problems with defunding police is that, due to negotiated contracts, union rules and all that, the last hired are the first to be let go, as a rule. This means that minorities and females which have been the focus of recent hiring in Seattle and probably elsewhere will be the first to be laid off.