The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

[Dave A]

Thank you for your balanced opinion. The two autopsies disagree on the cause of death but both agree that it was homicide according to the CBS link at the bottom of my follow up post.

Ah my bad, I didn't thoroughly read your follow up before quoting the earlier comment 👍.

I also agree with the assessment that both reports rightly point to homicide, that is perfectly logical, underlying conditions or not for the reasons already stated.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Then why go after them?
So why go after everyone? And what proof do you have? This is the whole virtue signalling thing over again.
Why not?

Protesters demonstrate over the causes they feel strongly about. To tell them they should be caring about other causes instead without supporting them yourself... well, there's a word for that.

I think it's a reaction to the enormity of the movement. It just exploded worldwide whereas other concerns over civil rights (some of which are even more harsh) fail to get off the ground/gain as much traction. It's a reaction to the press and corporations virtue signalling as much as it is against participants.

It's quite possible to be of a mind to sign such a petition while wearing Boohoo trousers (or whatever they make). If one continues to wear Boohoo clothes that have been found to be produced in unacceptable conditions then that's different. Consumers trust modern companies/producers to be doing the right thing but cannot act if they don't know when companies/producers are not doing the right thing.

That's why the ongoing conversations are so important in all aspects of history and modern life.

But where's the outrage after that was discovered? Where's the push to ethically source the products we now virtually demand to be cheap? Why are we still supporting the Qatar World Cup, or even its sponsors?

Answer:

Convenience. With a side serving of hypocrisy.

Are you capable of nuanced thought at all?

You can't see how there's a difference between police brutality in your own city of residence, and the behavior of a foreign government half the globe away? And how those two situations present very different opportunities to affect change? And how they represent two very different national relations situations?

How do you even know the thoughts of the average BLM member on China? How do you know they would or wouldn't support it if the US government wanted to take action?

Was talking more about UK BLM as I'm a Londoner.

Maybe someone else can speak about the US movement.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I don’t think the sole purpose of this thread is only discussing police related incidents.

@killerjimbag @Chrunch Houston @ryzno and whoever else:

Please stop derailing this thread. If you genuinely care about the things you brought up then please kindly make your own thread to discuss such things. It's a big forum. We will be glad to discuss those issues in a separate thread.

 

[UKMikey]

I think it's a reaction to the enormity of the movement. It just exploded worldwide whereas other concerns over civil rights (some of which are even more harsh) fail to get off the ground/gain as much traction.

George was at least the third person to die in similar circumstances after Eric Garner and John Neville. Perhaps people felt that enough was enough.

Also, maybe concerns over civil rights in other countries fail to gain traction because the protesters feel they don't have so much of a personal stake in what goes on in say China. Expecting them to care more about these geographically remote causes than about what they feel is more likely to threaten them in their own backyard would be more deserving of your derogatory description of them as "virtue signalling".

I seem to recall Tank Man capturing the public imagination in a similar manner to George Floyd's televised death. It's not just a matter of which deaths you personally feel are more unjust but which ones are more in the public eye.

It's a reaction to the press and corporations virtue signalling as much as it is against participants.

Shouldn't the media and businesses draw attention to this if they feel it's the moral thing to do? In the press's case, when did reporting the news become "virtue signalling"?

Please stop derailing this thread. If you genuinely care about the things you brought up then please kindly make your own thread to discuss such things. It's a big forum. We will be glad to discuss those issues in a separate thread.

I've requested this repeatedly and the response is "But, but BLM!". Perhaps they're concerned a separate thread won't have the visibility of this one or are resentful that a seemingly leftist cause is continuing to garner so much attention instead of their own agenda driven causes célèbre.

 

[ryzno]

Perhaps they're concerned a separate thread won't have the visibility of this one or are resentful that a seemingly leftist cause is continuing to garner so much attention instead of their own agenda driven causes celebre.

Y'all way over think stuff man.

And I don't need you telling me where to post Penguin. I'll tell you for the umpteenth time don't like what I posted report it. I said what I said and moved on.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Y'all way over think stuff man.

Then make a separate thread already. What are you waiting for?

(To all of you who know you who you are) If you don't, they you prove that you are trolls because we've been going back and forth in this thread and other threads for months with no sign of anything changing. At this point it appears your only goals are to disrupt the peace. If so, it's clear after all this time that you have no intention of proper discussion.

 

[Joey D]

I'm having a hard time comprehending the mental gymnastics someone must do to use a child killed in cold blood as a political pawn because they don't agree with people protesting police straight-up murdering people and the organization that started the protests. I seriously feel like I'm reading some asinine Facebook BS instead of the typical thoughtful discussion on GTP.

Is killing a child, in cold blood, an awful thing? Yes.
Is what happened to Floyd a terrible thing? Yes.
Are both things worthy of being outraged about? Yes.

 

[ryzno]

Then make a separate thread already. What are you waiting for?

(To all of you who know you who you are) If you don't, they you prove that you are trolls because we've been going back and forth in this thread and other threads for months with no sign of anything changing. At this point it appears your only goals are to disrupt the peace and as such should be removed. It's clear after all this time that you have no intention of proper discussion.

Well become a mod and ban me.
And I'll create a thread. Not to please you but out of respect to George. But I doubt you'll respond cause all you are worried about is being a mini mod and not actually having a conversation.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Well become a mod and ban me.
And I'll create a thread. Not to please you but out of respect to George. But I doubt you'll respond cause all you are worried about is being a mini mod and not actually having a conversation.

I don't see the thread yet. I'll respond when it's open.

Edit: I've stated this before in at least one thread that I let others who are much wiser with their words do the heavy lifting against your kind. I help out where and when I can.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

(To all of you who know you who you are) If you don't, they you prove that you are trolls because we've been going back and forth in this thread and other threads for months with no sign of anything changing.

You mean like, our opinions?

At this point it appears your only goals are to disrupt the peace and as such should be removed.

We don't agree, so we have to leave? If you want a safe space, then why are you here?

 

[DesertPenguin]

It's not that we disagree so much as the way you go about it.

 

[ryzno]

your kind

Please elaborate on what my kind is. Feel free to respond wherever you see fit as to not disrupt a thread.

 

[UKMikey]

And I'll create a thread. Not to please you but out of respect to George.

I'm glad someone has some respect for George. But it's not just about him. The Chicago victims also deserve respect as well and the situation there deserves somewhere where people can talk about what's happening without raising the temperature of this one with asinine talk about "safe spaces".

That's how the Political Cartoon/Meme thread got started and it's worked out fine so far.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Your kind being the those who choose to deflect and obfuscate from the topic at hand and the methods in which you choose to do so.

I'm surprised it took this long for your new thread to be made.

 

[Tornado]

Man, it must be a slow day on Trump's twitter account if people are this desperate to derail a thread about police officers murdering people on videotape.

You mean like, our opinions?

I think probably more your disingenuous moral grandstanding masquerading as actually caring about any topic you post in.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Then make a separate thread already. What are you waiting for?

(To all of you who know you who you are) If you don't, they you prove that you are trolls because we've been going back and forth in this thread and other threads for months with no sign of anything changing. At this point it appears your only goals are to disrupt the peace and as such should be removed. It's clear after all this time that you have no intention of proper discussion.

I find this kind of strange how you yourself are going about it. One you can easily report a post if people are actually trolling and being intentionaply rude or attacking you and not the discussion.

However, following the thread and just reading it, it seems that you have a determined view that may or may not align with others. That doesn't mean that because you don't align with others they should change or you should expect some change. Especially when you argue from an Appeal to Emotion fallacy stand point.

Another thing you could do is use your ignore list, if you truly feel those responding are adding nothing of value to the conversation. That way you don't have to see these "troll like" members. Especially if reported posts are not Tos breaking.

This is a very divisive topic and conversation, and realizing that would probably help you and those who oppose you as well. This isn't a topic that has a clear overarching solution. I think any rational person will agree that these situations shouldn't happen and when they do, those involved should face greater consequence.

Though crying foul when the argument never meets some conflict resolution isn't good either.

 

[killerjimbag]

Your kind being the those who choose to deflect and obfuscate from the topic at hand and the methods in which you choose to do so.

I'm surprised it took this long for your new thread to be made.

Is this the thread headlines?
My kind? What is that supposed to mean?
The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

George Floyd totally unacceptable for his death.

BLM I suppose if it included Indigenous, White,Hispanic ,Asian and others I could agree. If they actually marched and peacefully protested the deaths of the thousands murdered I get it.Unfortunately they don't.

POLICE BRUTALITY.
Welcome to the real world. Talk about Saudi Arabia,Russia,China and pretty much any oppressed countries in the world. Why is it just about the US. Is there no brutality outside of the US?Nobody seems to give a rats ass about "those people"
Thats what the thread says. Change it.

 

[UKMikey]

My eyes...

Forget about what's happening on your doorstep, go and protest in Saudi Arabia instead. Because cops beating on you and killing some of you is part of "the real world" and you should just learn to live with it. /s

This sounds like more of @McLaren's false equivalence fallacies. The thread title looks just fine to me as it has for the last thirty-six pages.

 

[killerjimbag]

My eyes...

Forget about what's happening on your doorstep, go and protest in Saudi Arabia instead. Because cops beating on you and killing some of you is part of "the real world" and you should just learn to live with it.

This sounds like more of @McLaren's false equivalence fallacies.

On my doorstep. I live 50 miles from Toronto. My daughter lives there. In 10 days there has been 26 shootings. I don't want to point out who or whom is shooting up Toronto. Do you want CCV video of the said culprits? If I post them am I going to be painted as what?

Wakehttps://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2020/7/21/1_5032441.html

Yeah an innocent 15 year old black child was killed. Do you want more videos? I can go on all day with this crap if you want.
Wake up dude. My best friend is a 25 year member of the Toronto Police force. I know facts dont mean squat and saying anything out of the narrative is being racist. BLM please.

 

[DesertPenguin]

On my doorstep. I live 50 miles from Toronto. My daughter lives there. In 10 days there has been 26 shootings. I don't want to point out who or whom is shooting up Toronto. Do you want CCV video of the said culprits? If I post them am I going to be painted as what?

Wakehttps://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2020/7/21/1_5032441.html

Wake up dude. My best friend is a 25 year member of the Toronto Police force. I know facts dont mean squat.

How does any of that explain or justify this?

POLICE BRUTALITY.
Welcome to the real world.

 

[UKMikey]

On my doorstep. I live 50 miles from Toronto. My daughter lives there. In 10 days there has been 26 shootings. I don't want to point out who or whom is shooting up Toronto. Do you want CCV video of the said culprits? If I post them am I going to be painted as what?

As somebody who can't be arsed to make his own thread and wants to take over this one because he doesn't agree with the subject matter. Unless police brutality is somehow supposed to be warranted because some people commit crime. Glad you found another drinking buddy besides the black dude.

 

[DesertPenguin]

As somebody who can't be arsed to make his own thread and wants to take over this one because he doesn't agree with the subject matter. Glad you found another drinking buddy besides the black dude.

Oh right, isn't killerjimbag the guy that basically said "I'm not racist, I have a black friend"?

 

[Tornado]

POLICE BRUTALITY.
Welcome to the real world. Talk about Saudi Arabia,Russia,China and pretty much any oppressed countries in the world. Why is it just about the US. Is there no brutality outside of the US?Nobody seems to give a rats ass about "those people"
Thats what the thread says. Change it.

In the grand scheme of things, no, I honestly really don't care about governments abusing their citizens in countries like Russia or Saudi Arabia or China. Certainly not in a thread that's not about China wailing on Hong Kong or Russia assassinating people who publicly complain about Putin. It could be

1. Because I don't think it's even remotely acceptable that the US is in a state that it is able to be mentioned in the same breath as those places for similar behavior
2. Because at the end of the day what China does to its citizens isn't actually my problem like what the US does to its own citizens is; and I happily skip out on when those countries are given high profile international events as a reward for it.
3. Because for the most part I think the actions of those countries on their citizens being used as a rallying cry in this thread is just an attempt to shut down calls for the US to actually do anything about social problems in the US. It's little different from when Republicans suddenly talk about giving money to veterans whenever they are blocking a spending program.

You're free to pick whatever one you prefer, but I think the thread title is fine.

 

[McLaren]

POLICE BRUTALITY.
Welcome to the real world. Talk about Saudi Arabia,Russia,China and pretty much any oppressed countries in the world. Why is it just about the US. Is there no brutality outside of the US?Nobody seems to give a rats ass about "those people"
Thats what the thread says. Change it.

It does happen. The issue is people that share your stance don't actually care about those people either, and as a likely result, don't look into them.

This spike owes part of its volume to the George Floyd and BLM movement and protests in the United States, but not only there. The world is seeing new waves of protests that are contributing to this global trend.

Ongoing protests movements today that only started the last two months include the Khabarovsk protests in Russia, corruption protests in Bulgaria, coronavirus protests in Serbia, anti-government protests in Thailand, political protests in Belarus, and unemployment protests in Tunisia. These do not include frequent protesting for laws concerning the coronavirus or police brutality and the Black Lives Matter movement worldwide. Not to mention massive already ongoing movements that are not two years old, like Hong Kong autonomy protests, Chilean, or Lebanese protests that include each over a million protesters.[3]

https://demsoxism.wordpress.com/202...coincidence-or-a-pattern-to-something-deeper/

 

[killerjimbag]

Oh right, isn't killerjimbag the guy that basically said "I'm not racist, I have a black friend"?

Yes I have many friends of different nationalities. Your point being what? So it comes to the I have black friends crap now. Kudos thats the usual crap when facts are put in someone's face.

 

[NotThePrez]

Once again, because I know I've sad this before in the past (And I'm speaking generally here),...

1) Just because you have a black friend, doesn't mean you're incapable of being a racist. All it truly means is that you know a black person that is willing to associate themselves with you. I personally had a good friend in high school that I immediately cut ties with when I found out he was a racist piece of crap online/in private.

2) As someone who has often been the "black friend," if you're finding that you constantly need to remind people that you have a black friend (or friends belonging to other minorities) when you give your take, there's usually a pretty good chance that your take is backwards in some regard. Also, using your "friend" as a scapegoat is frankly not cool, full-stop.

It's not a good scapegoat, and it will never be a good scapegoat. Stop using it (again, speaking in general).

Is this the thread headlines?
I suppose if it included Indigenous, White,Hispanic ,Asian and others I could agree. If they actually marched and peacefully protested the deaths of the thousands murdered I get it.Unfortunately they don't.

BLM the movement and BLM The Organization are not always the same thing (especially currently), and it is absolutely possible to support the movement/idea without supporting the organization. This is also something that has been explained in this thread and others.

Once again, you seem to be missing the core issue, in which an officer of the law, whose job it is to also protect suspects, because even criminals have rights in this country, was completely negligent in his duty and killed a guy who was already detained and was not a threat to a single soul. And that's not to mention the decent number of cases over the past few years in which and officer killed someone unnecessarily (usually a minority), and didn't face any criminal consequences, even in the cases where there was clear-as-day footage of the incidents.

Is murder, especially random murder, bad? Yes, very.
Are unnecessary deaths caused the negligence of the people who are supposed to protect us also bad? Yes, very.
Is it possible to be mad about both? Yes, and people absolutely should be.
Are these things on the same level? Not always.

I have no idea how to make this any more clear for you.

POLICE BRUTALITY.

Welcome to the real world.

And police brutality being part of the "real world" makes it acceptable and not worth challenging.....how, exactly?

 

[killerjimbag]

Once again, because I know I've sad this before in the past (And I'm speaking generally here),...

1) Just because you have a black friend, doesn't mean you're incapable of being a racist. All it truly means is that you know a black person that is willing to associate themselves with you. I personally had a good friend in high school that I immediately cut ties with when I found out he was a racist piece of crap online/in private.

2) As someone who has often been the "black friend," if you're finding that you constantly need to remind people that you have a black friend (or friends belonging to other minorities) when you give your take, there's usually a pretty good chance that your take is backwards in some regard. Also, using your "friend" as a scapegoat is frankly not cool, full-stop.

It's not a good scapegoat, and it will never be a good scapegoat. Stop using it (again, speaking in general).



BLM the movement and BLM The Organization are not always the same thing (especially currently), and it is absolutely possible to support the movement/idea without supporting the organization. This is also something that has been explained in this thread and others.

Once again, you seem to be missing the core issue, in which an officer of the law, whose job it is to also protect suspects, because even criminals have rights in this country, was completely negligent in his duty and killed a guy who was already detained and was not a threat to a single soul. And that's not to mention the decent number of cases over the past few years in which and officer killed someone unnecessarily (usually a minority), and didn't face any criminal consequences, even in the cases where there was clear-as-day footage of the incidents.

Is murder, especially random murder, bad? Yes, very.
Are unnecessary deaths caused the negligence of the people who are supposed to protect us also bad? Yes, very.
Is it possible to be mad about both? Yes, and people absolutely should be.
Are these things on the same level? Not always.

I have no idea how to make this any more clear for you.



And police brutality being part of the "real world" makes it acceptable and not worth challenging.....how, exactly?

Yes and looting and rioting and murdering each other is what? Part of the real world.

 

[UKMikey]

Yes and looting and rioting and murdering each other is what? Part of the real world.

You can challenge looting and rioting and murdering and challenge police brutality at the same time. Doing one doesn't mean you can't do the other.

 

[NotThePrez]

Yes and looting and rioting and murdering each other is what? Part of the real world.

And is also 100% not ok. You can challenge both at the same time.

Edit: How is Police Brutality acceptable just because it's part of the real world? Would love an answer there.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

And is also 100% not ok. You can challenge both at the same time.

Edit: How is Police Brutality acceptable just because it's part of the real world? Would love an answer there.

Should tack on rioting, looting and murdering. It's all part of the real world. Perhaps we don't need policing at all.