The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

We enter the evening (6pm) of the 6th day of protests in Seattle. Enormous crowds have surrounded the East Police Precinct and City Hall downtown. Numbers now are over 10,000, the highest yet seen.

Protest leaders well-known and unknown have met with the mayor and police chief and made demands. One demand is defunding the police department.
 
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I was just out in a peaceful protest riding my bike alongside countless others. I can't do much but if I can show my support, that helps in a small way. But damn my legs are tired! I haven't ridden a bike that far in so long!

Edit: Lost my glasses. I had them on at first but then realized how quickly they were fogging up with the mask so I put them in my hoodie pocket that was tied around my waste. Massive fail. I can see just fine without them but they make everything crystal clear. It's like going from 720 to 1080. I can live in 720 for a little while lol
 
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I saw this thread pop up on Reddit and it's certainly interesting:



There are sources within the thread if you want to see how the poster came up with their case.

The gist of it though is that Officer Thomas Lane was a rookie and only became a full officer in December. So he'd had only six months under his belt as a cop. When compared to Chauvin's 19 years, it shows what a huge difference there was in terms of experience. Lane also questioned Chauvin not once, but twice:

Lane asked “should we roll him on his side” and Chauvin allegedly responded: “That’s why we have him on his stomach.”

“I am worried about excited delirium or whatever," Lane said, according to the charging document, before Chauvin allegedly answered: “That’s why we have him on his stomach.”
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I'm not a cop, so I don't fully understand the dynamic, but I can't imagine it differs greatly from anywhere else. Questioning a superior takes guts, especially doing it twice. I have to imagine doing anything more than questioning would've meant Lane would've lost his job too and probably the ability to ever be a cop again in the MSP area. I totally get why Lane didn't do more and honestly, I think even speaking up was huge and even something that minor put his career on the line, as well as the respect of his fellow officers.

I know many people are commenting in that thread that Lane should've tackled Chauvin or done something to physically restrain him, but I'm not sure I agree. Chauvin was already seen to be someone who clearly had violent tendencies and I could totally see him putting Lane in cuffs on the ground and putting his knee on his neck. Also, guns were involved and Chauvin could've easily made the case that he "feared for his life" and shot Lane.

Honestly, if all this is true about Lane, then I don't think he should see any jail time. Under the circumstances, he did what he could and doesn't really seem like an accessory to murder. I'm not real familiar with negligence or breach of duty laws, but I'm guessing there's something in those that would fit for Lane. At most he should get probation in exchange for testimony against Chauvin.
 
Joey D
Honestly, if all this is true about Lane, then I don't think he should see any jail time. Under the circumstances, he did what he could and doesn't really seem like an accessory to murder. I'm not real familiar with negligence or breach of duty laws, but I'm guessing there's something in those that would fit for Lane. At most he should get probation in exchange for testimony against Chauvin.
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Why only Lane? How is he less responsible than Tou Thao? And he could at the very least stand up. Lane and Kueng hold him down while Chauvin was killing him. If Lane walks away then the other two should too.
 
Is it likely that widespread gathering in protests will lead to a visible 2nd wave in the pandemic? Or perhaps it makes no real difference at this point.

More than 13,000 people have been arrested while protesting around the nation this week.

Marti Gould Cummings says he and others were peacefully protesting police brutality Tuesday when they say the NYPD arrested several of them along the West Side Highway, escalating another crisis — that is COVID-19.

“We were then put in a hallway, about 100 of us at a time, shoulder to shoulder with no mask, no social distancing,” Gould Cummings told CBS2’s Christina Fan.

Protesters say the holding pens they’re being kept in are overcrowded, making it impossible to socially distance.

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“We know that shouting, yelling projects respiratory droplets much farther than just talking, and these people are of course less than six feet away from each other. And so, my concern is yes, there’s going to be a tremendous amount of transmission,” said Dr. Len Horovitz, an internist at Lenox Hill Hospital NYC.

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/06/03/protests-coronavirus-new-york/
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warp9engage
Title of headline: "Three men connected to 'boogaloo' movement tried to provoke violence at protests, feds say"

In the article itself: "Federal prosecutors in Las Vegas have charged three men alleged to be members of the far-right extremist "Boogaloo" movement..."

Sneaky reporting is sneaky...
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Sneaky!

Same Article
Charging documents say Stephen T. Parshall, aka "Kiwi," 35; Andrew Lynam, 23; and William L. Loomis, 40, all of Las Vegas, were arrested Saturday on a state criminal complaint alleging conspiracy to commit an act of terrorism, material support for committing an act of terrorism and multiple explosives violations. The plot was foiled with help from an informant, authorities said.
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Are you sure you entirely understand why/how journalists use the word "allegedly" for matters in jurisprudence?
 
Austin cops fired on a group of people bringing a kid who had suffered a fractured skull after being fired on by the cops with less-lethal rounds.

I read an account from one of the guys carrying him.


It's hard to see how this will end when the thing that people are protesting about keeps happening to those protesting.
 
TenEightyOne
Sneaky!



Are you sure you entirely understand why/how journalists use the word "allegedly" for matters in jurisprudence?
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"alleged, adjective,
said, without proof, to have taken place or to have a specified illegal or undesirable quality."

The article says, in the headline, that the men arrested were connected to the group in question. The reality is that they are alleged to be a part of the group in question. Very different. Until properly charged and proven guilty, you should always say alleged, even in the headline or, at least, the sub-headline. This sounds like they're already certain these guys are that, which is sneaky.
 
strela
Why only Lane? How is he less responsible than Tou Thao? And he could at the very least stand up. Lane and Kueng hold him down while Chauvin was killing him. If Lane walks away then the other two should too.
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I don't think Thao is responsible at all based on the known information, he was talking with bystanders and gathering statements. Kueng is in a similar position as Lane, but unlike Lane, he reportedly didn't question Chauvin.

Honestly, I don't think Lane, Kueng, or Thao will see a conviction. The evidence against them is pretty weak and they're lawyers will argue that they were doing what they were trained to do. Chauvin is in a world of hurt though, he ignored pleas from the suspect, he ignored a fellow officer, and he continued to kneel on Floyd's neck for nearly three minutes after Floyd lost consciousness.
 
warp9engage
The article says, in the headline, that the men arrested were connected to the group in question.
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Connection doesn't mean proof, it means that an investigative connection has been made between the terrorists and the group. Alleged means that this connection hasn't been proven in law.

You seem very keen that Boogaloo aren't somehow tainted by association with these terrorists, why is that?
 
TenEightyOne
Connection doesn't mean proof, it means that an investigative connection has been made between the terrorists and the group. Alleged means that this connection hasn't been proven in law.
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That is one interpretation. But being connected can also mean 'being associated with', which is still in the air. They could be of that group or another group. Either way, they should be arrested.

Right now, with tensions as high as they are, it's vital that everyone, especially the media, who are supposed to be the impartial and accurate informants of the people, take extra care with everything they publish, being as clear and concise as possible, as anything slightly out of place can set off another powder keg.

TenEightyOne
You seem very keen that Boogaloo aren't somehow tainted by association with these terrorists, why is that?
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I commented on this article simply because it showed up in the latest post of the thread, when I visited it. I could have easily commented the same on any other article about anything else, as long as I saw misleading journalism in it, because I want to point out the major role the media has in starting this mess, by having misleading headlines, publishing innacurate information, ommitting information and adding personal opinions outside editorial articles. They know most people only read headlines so they push for sensation rather than accuracy, all in the name of ratings and profit. Meanwhile these headlines are being read by extremists, of all sides of the political spectrum who, erroneously, start to think the situation is absolutely terrible and feel emboldened to take action. Years of this have led to now.

As for caring for 'Boogaloo', believe it or not, I only heard of them on this very article and I emphatically don't support their cause. Who wants deliberate Civil War? They're crazy, just like all the other radical groups.

I don't like that you assumed that of me after just one post on the topic. Just a word of a advice: stop assuming the absolute worse of people. You'll make fewer enemies. Reflect on that.

My post was meant to be taken at face-value. Literally the complaint was at the sly journalism, not because of who might be being slighted by said journalism. For all I care, I wouldn't mind a group like this 'Boogaloo' being slighted, as they deserve it. But I also don't like double standards so I have to call out all slighting, even if it's against people I don't like.

EDIT: "assuming the assuming" oops fixed
 
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Joey D
I don't think Thao is responsible at all based on the known information, he was talking with bystanders and gathering statements. Kueng is in a similar position as Lane, but unlike Lane, he reportedly didn't question Chauvin.

Honestly, I don't think Lane, Kueng, or Thao will see a conviction. The evidence against them is pretty weak and they're lawyers will argue that they were doing what they were trained to do. Chauvin is in a world of hurt though, he ignored pleas from the suspect, he ignored a fellow officer, and he continued to kneel on Floyd's neck for nearly three minutes after Floyd lost consciousness.
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I believe they should. They are policemen. They should serve and protect. They should know when somebody is in life threatening situation. They didn't do anything to prevent the death of a human being. No matter how much you want to back up your partner you should distance yourself from wrong doing. You should...
But yeah, I know. They are going to use everything to prove their innocents. I wouldn't be surprised if Chauvin would claim that Floyd just faked the I can't breathe part. He did tried the claustrophobic excuse when they tried to put him in the police suv despite the fact that he was sitting in similar vehicle just minutes before. Let's hope that the judge will be wise enough.
 
The protests are one thing.
Organized criminals looting and burning are a very different element to all this.
Investigations are being done on all these loony anarchists alt right alt left criminals taking advantage of a protest situation to do their violence.
There needs to be a clear seperation between those legitimately outraged and excercising their rights vs outright criminals excercising violent means in these gatherings to destroy harm police loot arson etc because of whatever ridiculous ideology they subscribe to.
These elements which have nothing to do with the righteous protesters rightly calling for change are what I think law enforcement needs to focus on.
I’d bet 90 or more percent of the violence that has been seen comes from the fringe crazy types coming out of their holes.
What is scary is many reports from police noting an element of organization to this violence and crime that pretty much hasn’t been seen before here...
 
I apologize for the double-post but a I have a little more to say.

I thought I'd try and post an opinion on this section but that did not go well. I've decided I'm not going to post anymore on this thread, or even this section, as it's obvious tempers are high right now and not everyone is listening to reason as much as they should.

I'm also going to ask of @TenEightyOne and those who liked his reply implying that I could be interested in defending a radical group, to apologize and rethink their way of thought. If you are going to say something on the level of my personal honor, then you better have a seriously good case behind you or I will not tolerate it.

Last, but not least, paiting someone with dangerous colors after minimal interaction is an eco-chamber, radical mindset. Be careful were you let your mind go to and open some doors in it.

Good day.
 
strela
I believe they should. They are policemen. They should serve and protect. They should know when somebody is in life threatening situation. They didn't do anything to prevent the death of a human being. No matter how much you want to back up your partner you should distance yourself from wrong doing. You should...
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It's not that simple. Lane recognized that Chauvin was potentially doing something wrong and spoke up. Past what he did, there's not much else he could do and even doing that he put his career on the line. If Floyd had survived the encounter, the likelihood of Lane being terminated by the department was high and he would've almost certainly been ostracized by fellow officers. He was in a bad position and did what he reasonably could. Chauvin was, at least by the known information, the senior officer there. Going against a superior is difficult under the best of circumstances. It's also worth noting that Lane was the only officer to turn himself in.

Kueng should have also spoken up, but he reportedly didn't. He's shares more of the blame, but even then I'm not sure he's an accessory to murder. Thao is probably even further from being an accessory as he wasn't with the other three officers, he was gathering statements from bystanders and witnesses. I'm not sure he really knew what was going on in full.

This is why evidence and the rule of law is so important. Right now there's a mob mentality that all four officers should be charged with murder and sentenced to a maximum amount of jail time. That's unreasonable and would also be an injustice. Chauvin committed the murder and deserves punishment for it, the other three officers are in more of a gray area that needs further examination.
 
strela
He did tried the claustrophobic excuse when they tried to put him in the police suv despite the fact that he was sitting in similar vehicle just minutes before.
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All I'll say is the back of a police SUV is a lot smaller than you think, it's also a lot smaller than the front seat of a normal SUV, not to mention the cage you're sitting in when you are in handcuffs behind your back giving you even less room.
I'm 6 feet tall BTW, I literally have to sit sideways.
 
ryzno
All I'll say is the back of a police SUV is a lot smaller than you think, it's also a lot smaller than the front seat of a normal SUV, not to mention the cage you're sitting in when you are in handcuffs behind your back giving you even less room.
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I got arrested once and was in the back of a Ford Explorer but it didn't have a cage barrier. They were an unmarked car so that's probably why. I even jokingly asked to put on a certain radio station. That's probably white privilege though :( It was a victimless crime so there was no threat of anything to anyone.
 
PzR Slim
Maybe they are members of the Trump Army? Stay safe everyone over there.

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In the very least it's misleading. They didn't "change" the Maga hat to the camo one, but they do offer the camo one on their campaign store. I think I recall seeing them sporadically in the past 3-4 years, I don't think they are new.
https://shop.donaldjtrump.com/products/official-keep-america-great-45th-president-hat-camo

As I'm not signed up for Trump's newsletter (lol) I can't say for sure whether or not that email was legitimate, but I'm not sure that twitter post is all that credible.

The space force hats are hilarious. 2 years ago, that exact same branding would have been the nerdiest thing imaginable. :lol:
 
Groundfish
What is scary is many reports from police noting an element of organization to this violence and crime that pretty much hasn’t been seen before here...
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Last Saturday in Seattle, rioters burned dozens of mainly police cars right down to burnt-out hulks. This was despite continuous heavy rain in the area all day long. I suspect the very clever and effective use of accelerants of some kind. Backpacks confiscated from rioters were found loaded with frozen water bottles and other projectiles, fireworks, as well as stick weapons.
 

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