The Active Stock Market Trader, or Traders of Other (Crypto ect.) Market's Thing's Thread.

[McLaren]

I've not been following that closely, but just looking at the chart, if you'd have bought in January at around $19, and sold at the peak of $347, you'd have had to have had $54,739 invested in Game Stop to have made $1,000,000. I doubt your average redditor had $55k in GME, and I doubt many could afford the risk to get in at that level in the hope it would jump. I'm sure a lot of people have made some good wedge on it though.

Sometimes I wonder, though. The average redditor, sure. But, some of those folks on WSB definitely dump thousands & thousands like it's just candy. There was a user who did dump something around $50K into GME, don't think it was u/DeepF'Value though. Looks like he dumped much more in and has still not sold. I guess they're doing another week of this?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I've limited my exposure to the stock market almost entirely at this point. I've got about 10% in there, but it's way too frothy for me.

 

[Danoff]

I've limited my exposure to the stock market almost entirely at this point. I've got about 10% in there, but it's way too frothy for me.

Well done. I'm more like 50% in, which is more than I'd like but I can't think of a better option for that 50% - which is almost entirely in 401ks.

 

[Joey D]

I've limited my exposure to the stock market almost entirely at this point. I've got about 10% in there, but it's way too frothy for me.

The stock market really isn't that bad if you're looking for relatively safe long term gains. I'm talking about really safe, blue-chip stocks here too. Other than some lame ass savings programs the bank offers, there's really not much else most people can do to increase their wealth without having a decent amount of wealth to start with. Real estate is always good, but it costs a fortune to get involved in that plus you have to either pay a management company or do it yourself. I can't even afford one house and/or condo so I'm not sure how I'd be able to afford two.

I don't mind jumping into risky stocks though and as long as I monitor them continuously, I don't really get burned. Most of my money is in mutual funds, IRAs, and my 403b since that all came from work-related retirement accounts that have just been rolled over and over again. My current employer does a really nice match so I put in the same percentage they match up to. I figure it's worth it to get a few extra thousand out of them every year.

Past that, what is there to invest your money in?

 

[Danoff]

The stock market really isn't that bad if you're looking for relatively safe long term gains. I'm talking about really safe, blue-chip stocks here too. Other than some lame ass savings programs the bank offers, there's really not much else most people can do to increase their wealth without having a decent amount of wealth to start with. Real estate is always good, but it costs a fortune to get involved in that plus you have to either pay a management company or do it yourself. I can't even afford one house and/or condo so I'm not sure how I'd be able to afford two.

It's called a mortgage. Currently they're free.

Past that, what is there to invest your money in?

Oh... things....

Collectible cars, REITs, annuities, variable universal life insurance (who am I kidding, this is back in the stock market), rental property, oil wells, gold and other metals, cryptocurrency, and of course... frozen concentrated... no... gamestop!

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

The stock market really isn't that bad if you're looking for relatively safe long term gains. I'm talking about really safe, blue-chip stocks here too. Other than some lame ass savings programs the bank offers, there's really not much else most people can do to increase their wealth without having a decent amount of wealth to start with. Real estate is always good, but it costs a fortune to get involved in that plus you have to either pay a management company or do it yourself. I can't even afford one house and/or condo so I'm not sure how I'd be able to afford two.

I don't mind jumping into risky stocks though and as long as I monitor them continuously, I don't really get burned. Most of my money is in mutual funds, IRAs, and my 403b since that all came from work-related retirement accounts that have just been rolled over and over again. My current employer does a really nice match so I put in the same percentage they match up to. I figure it's worth it to get a few extra thousand out of them every year.

Past that, what is there to invest your money in?

That's the direction I'm headed. See announcements thread. Though, I'm not super confident in even that. But I figure it's a play that, eventually, will come out ahead even if there is a near-term bust (I think there could be). I don't honestly think that anything can compare to both the scarcity and universal intrinsic value of real estate. Here's hoping the US population keeps growing...

 

[Danoff]

That's the direction I'm headed. See announcements thread. Though, I'm not super confident in even that. But I figure it's a play that, eventually, will come out ahead even if there is a near-term bust (I think there could be). I don't honestly think that anything can compare to both the scarcity and universal intrinsic value of real estate. Here's hoping the US population keeps growing...

Welcome to the club!

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Funds wise the market is a bit over inflated for comfort. There are still some individual stocks that seem a bit undervalued, but the pickings are getting smaller and smaller.

 

[Moglet]

Sometimes I wonder, though. The average redditor, sure. But, some of those folks on WSB definitely dump thousands & thousands like it's just candy. There was a user who did dump something around $50K into GME, don't think it was u/DeepF'Value though. Looks like he dumped much more in and has still not sold. I guess they're doing another week of this?

DFV didn't put much more in, his total was $54,000 in but he did it in September 2019 when shares were around $4 each. He also has some call options at $12 each. On Jan 27th his total shares were worth $48 million but they're currently worth about $22 million and I don't believe he has any intention of selling yet!

I'm not sure I'd be strong enough to see that "loss" of $13,000,000 in a single day and not panic sell...

 

[Blitz24]

DFV didn't put much more in, his total was $54,000 in but he did it in September 2019 when shares were around $4 each. He also has some call options at $12 each. On Jan 27th his total shares were worth $48 million but they're currently worth about $22 million and I don't believe he has any intention of selling yet!

I'm not sure I'd be strong enough to see that "loss" of $13,000,000 in a single day and not panic sell...

If he really believed in the company and he has enough assets, then this is not a extremely bad decision. The problem is, why are you really holding that much faith in a company shown to be unfaithful?

 

[Danoff]

If he really believed in the company and he has enough assets, then this is not a extremely bad decision. The problem is, why are you really holding that much faith in a company shown to be unfaithful?

I'm sorry what does this have to do with gamestop again? Seriously the company has absolutely zero to do with the stock price right now.

 

[Blitz24]

I'm sorry what does this have to do with gamestop again? Seriously the company has absolutely zero to do with the stock price right now.

If he's still holding and didn't sell off, it's becomes debatable if he truly is in this against the hedge fund investors.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I'm sorry what does this have to do with gamestop again? Seriously the company has absolutely zero to do with the stock price right now.

I don't think it's zero. I've been reading elsewhere that Gamestop was not chosen just because it was highly shorted, but that it was a highly shorted company that some critical mass on Reddit has a personal affinity for. In some ways, I believe there was a collective feeling that something they "love" (or at least have nostalgic feelings for) - Gamestop - was being destroyed in a cold/calculated way by something they hate (or at least have deep distrust in) - faceless Wall Street. I almost feel like it's GamerGate 2.0 except with far more ambiguous outcomes - a large amounted of semi-coordinated malcontents with a bone to pick with someone over a perceived injustice, and the tools and creativity to do some damage. AMC & BB&B are just sort of periphery "when in Rome" moves, IMO, and the silver thing seems to be some astroturfing attempt.

Now all that being said, I'm pretty sure a lot of people were piling on purely sensing an opportunity to make a buck. But I don't think this would have taken off quite so much if it had been any other company.

 

[Danoff]

I don't think it's zero. I've been reading elsewhere that Gamestop was not chosen just because it was highly shorted, but that it was a highly shorted company that some critical mass on Reddit has a personal affinity for. In some ways, I believe there was a collective feeling that something they "love" (or at least have nostalgic feelings for) - Gamestop - was being destroyed in a cold/calculated way by something they hate (or at least have deep distrust in) - faceless Wall Street. I almost feel like it's GamerGate 2.0 except with far more ambiguous outcomes - a large amounted of semi-coordinated malcontents with a bone to pick with someone over a perceived injustice, and the tools and creativity to do some damage. AMC & BB&B are just sort of periphery "when in Rome" moves, IMO, and the silver thing seems to be some astroturfing attempt.

Now all that being said, I'm pretty sure a lot of people were piling on purely sensing an opportunity to make a buck. But I don't think this would have taken off quite so much if it had been any other company.

I guess I'd argue that that has more to do with the brand than the company (if you can view them as separable, which I can but I recognize might not come naturally).

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I guess I'd argue that that has more to do with the brand than the company (if you can view them as separable, which I can but I recognize might not come naturally).

Maybe I'm not understanding your original post, but I'm merely explaining what I think is the broad motivation of the Redditors - I do not think they view the brand and the company separately.

 

[Danoff]

Maybe I'm not understanding your original post, but I'm merely explaining what I think is the broad motivation of the Redditors - I do not think they view the brand and the company separately.

Yea that would bolster my point. The company itself, the fundamentals, current viability, operating capital, inventory, business model, earnings outlook, is not what the stock price is based on right now (still). One could make a similar argument for Tesla of course. The gamestop stock price is based on things which are not related to the fundamentals of the company - things like dislike for hedge fund managers, speculation about the behavior of others, and loyalty to the brand. The brand can be sold to another company, which can operate the brand and even the same locations, and even adopt much of the same business model. But the company itself is what the stock is "invested" in, not the brand per se. The company owns the brand, that might not always be the case.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Yea that would bolster my point. The company itself, the fundamentals, current viability, operating capital, inventory, business model, earnings outlook, is not what the stock price is based on right now (still). One could make a similar argument for Tesla of course. The gamestop stock price is based on things which are not related to the fundamentals of the company - things like dislike for hedge fund managers, speculation about the behavior of others, and loyalty to the brand. The brand can be sold to another company, which can operate the brand and even the same locations, and even adopt much of the same business model. But the company itself is what the stock is "invested" in, not the brand per se. The company owns the brand, that might not always be the case.

I believe the DPV character first invested when Gamestop brought on a new CEO and there was some optimism that the company could pivot to a more successful E-commerce model and therefore theoretically represented value at the "low" stock price, so there is some underlying fundamental faith going on, but yeah I mostly agree with you. I doubt many of the Redditors jumping on the short squeeze did it with any sort of sober assessment of the company's actual prospects.

 

[Danoff]

I believe the DPV character first invested when Gamestop brought on a new CEO and there was some optimism that the company could pivot to a more successful E-commerce model and therefore theoretically represented value at the "low" stock price, so there is some underlying fundamental faith going on, but yeah I mostly agree with you. I doubt many of the Redditors jumping on the short squeeze did it with any sort of sober assessment of the company's actual prospects.

 

[Outspacer]

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

At what point does this sort of thing qualify as market manipulation?

 

[CTznOfTime]

At what point does this sort of thing qualify as market manipulation?

Probably when those in power are starting to feel that they are losing (ground, money, power) to those whom they are keeping the power from in the first place...

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Probably when those in power are starting to feel that they are losing (ground, money, power) to those whom they are keeping the power from in the first place...

I hardly think Elon Musk is someone lacking in power. If Musk has a large stake in Dogecoin and then uses his massive reach and fanbase to drive up the price of it, that doesn't seem very innocent to me.

I don't think the narrative of the gamestop saga should be of the poor taking from the rich, especially when some hedge funds came out of it with hundreds of millions in profits.

 

[CTznOfTime]

I hardly think Elon Musk is someone lacking in power. If Musk has a large stake in Dogecoin and then uses his massive reach and fanbase to drive up the price of it, that doesn't seem very innocent to me.

I don't think the narrative of the gamestop saga should be of the poor taking from the rich, especially when some hedge funds came out of it with hundreds of millions in profits.

Yes but things are getting awfully close for their comfort... Why risk it, when they can try to continue keeping 'us' at bay...

Just my unfounded perspective

 

[Crash]

If he's still holding and didn't sell off, it's becomes debatable if he truly is in this against the hedge fund investors.

If you look at his daily GME YOLO Updates (and believe it), DFV has been booking profits on the way up and now has a multi-million dollar position in cash.

 

[eran0004]

I don't think the narrative of the gamestop saga should be of the poor taking from the rich, especially when some hedge funds came out of it with hundreds of millions in profits.

And when most of the poor lost most of their invested money. The problem with inflating a stock artificially is that it’s basically a pyramid scheme: because the value of the stock is not based on the value of the business, your investment is only secure as long as other people keep buying in.

 

[Danoff]

because the value of the stock is not based on the value of the business, your investment is only secure as long as other people keep buying in.

What a super weird thing to see in the stock market.

 

[CTznOfTime]

https://www.insider.com/wallstreetb...ators-gamestop-started-movie-deal-coup-2021-2

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

And when most of the poor lost most of their invested money. The problem with inflating a stock artificially is that it’s basically a pyramid scheme: because the value of the stock is not based on the value of the business, your investment is only secure as long as other people keep buying in.

Heh, I called it a Ponzi scheme since day 1.

Absolutely! Go onto that reddit thread, if you dare. The nihilism there reminds me of 4chan 10 years ago.

There is not even a pretense (beyond a vaguely plausible move to e-commerce due to a new investor) of investing in good faith. It's a pile-on to punish a particular hedge fund (I'm not taking a side here) that sure smells and swims like a ponzi scheme to me. I really wonder...do they all (the robinhood bros) think they can cash out with big winnings? Because that ain't gonna happen. I saw that one redditor is up to a $22m position as of this morning, and they are trying to drive his stake up past the net worth of Melvin Capitol's founder or CEO or something.

If this continues, there will be regulation coming because the stock market could be in for systemic risk if this kind of activity continues.

edit: On the other hand, I feel like this is specifically targeted at punishing short investors. Short investors kind of annoy me because it seems to me like a fundamentally unproductive way to use capital. So maybe it's not so bad?

 

[Biggles]

Feb 15th 2021 the Nikkei moved back over 30,000 for the first time in 30 years (it peaked in 1989 at 38,957). Through the 1980's the Japanese economy was a juggernaut. This was the time when the Japanese business model was being touted as the best in the world & Japanese corporations & individuals were buying up assets around the globe. I bought a Japanese mutual fund at some point in the mid 90's - I don't remember exactly when, but I made the assumption that because Japanese stocks had already dropped a lot from their highs, while American stocks were displaying "irrational exuberance", Japan stocks would be a safer bet.

Bad decision.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Gamestop stock went up over 100% today and is going even higher after hours.