The biking thread

[SPhilli911]

Ha, my brother sent me a link to this event a few days ago (he lives in CT). Looks like a fun time. They need to do something like this at Laguna Seca which actually has a ton of trails around it.

Very cool, did your brother participate in the event? The group for the 18.5 mile ride was fairly small with only 29 riders, but the others had very large groups, over 100 I'd guess, including pros.

It's a great event to utilize the track since there are no Sunday races. Not to mention, it's simply a stunning location to ride a bike. I don't typically like to road ride because I live in a heavy traffic area, but the roads around Lime Rock are empty. Would be great to take a bike down the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Very cool, did your brother participate in the event? The group for the 18.5 mile ride was fairly small with only 29 riders, but the others had very large groups, over 100 I'd guess, including pros.

It's a great event to utilize the track since there are no Sunday races. Not to mention, it's simply a stunning location to ride a bike. I don't typically like to road ride because I live in a heavy traffic area, but the roads around Lime Rock are empty. Would be great to take a bike down the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca

I'm an idiot...Sea Otter is at Laguna Seca. I'm definitely gonna sign up for it next year. I'll have to follow up to see if he did it. He rides a red Surly Midnight Special if you happen to notice one.

 

[SPhilli911]

I'm an idiot...Sea Otter is at Laguna Seca. I'm definitely gonna sign up for it next year. I'll have to follow up to see if he did it. He rides a red Surly Midnight Special if you happen to notice one.

I didn't see anyone on a Midnight Special. Nearly got that same bike myself, actually, before going with the Trek.

 

[TB]

I really love the aesthetics of the old rigid triple triangle GT mountain bikes.

My wife had this built for me as a wedding present. I passed it down to my son when I bought the Roubaix.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

View attachment 1294375

My wife had this built for me as a wedding present. I passed it down to my son when I bought the Roubaix.

Yeah the quill stem on these old MTBs always leave me scratching my head. I wonder if you could do a normal-ish stem with some kind of alt/BMX/swept bar to get the handlebars into roughly the same spot without the weird looking cockpit, more or less what comes on the Marin Larkspur from the factory. Would that be enough raise? Bike is probably too short for the sweep and it would feel really cramped if its even rideable.

So then maybe the bars from the Surly lowside?

Could look pretty cool, IMO, while still being functional.

I just want a cool looking but still functional rat bike. Anyone know if those old GT bikes had mounts for a rear or front rack?

 

[Omnis]

I don't think any of those old MTB bikes had rack mounts. I'd be shocked if they even had fender mounts.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I'm leaning towards the Kona Dew. Might even pick up a pair of them for me and my S.O.

In comparing it to my Ribble, my Cannondale, and my Giant its slacker (70 deg HT angle) and more relaxed than the Ribble & a lot more so than the Cannondale (obviously) with a pretty long wheelbase (1116mm) - not far off from the Giant which is about what I'm looking for. As best I can tell it's around 25lbs in the lowest build. It comes with 650bx47 tires which is pretty rare for this type of bike. It has a 22/36 front chainset and an 11-34 cassette so the climbing ratio is actually rather excellent. They can be found for under $500

Is the 70 degree HT angle going to make the bike feel too lazy is my worry. I would be using the bike for commuting so comfort is definitely important, but I'm also hoping the bike will be somewhat zesty to ride, at least when racks are not mounted. Ideally I would love a steel frame, but you get up into really high dollar bikes for something decently light. The Surly Bridge club would probably be 5lb heavier and that's assuming better finishing kit as well - and the frameset alone on the Surly is more than a complete Dew.

Trying to refine my requirements here:

650b (changed from earlier, I like how nimble 650b feels for a get-on-and-go bike)
Relaxed & comfortable geometry
Mech disc (for simplicity)
High standover clearance
Flat bars
Rack mounts
Relatively lightweight
Flat pedals
Clearance for 35mm tires+
Attractive frame design

The Dew seems to get all this right

 

[Greycap]

Is the 70 degree HT angle going to make the bike feel too lazy is my worry.

Admittedly I have never ridden a 70° 650B but I've had a 70° 26" and a selection of 29ers with 71,5°/71°/70,5°/68° and if anything they get better even in leisurely riding when the angle gets slacker. The stem makes a much bigger difference, when I rode the 26" for the last time before selling it I wondered how I had managed to stay out of hospital through the Finnish winter with it. Very twitchy with the stock 75 mm stem, my current 29er with 68° and 60 mm is way more manageable yet still turns on a dime if needed. In fact I mostly had a 90 mm on the 26" for just that reason.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Speaking of handling, I've noticed that my Ribble handles pretty...weird... with the 700c wheelset and specifically if I have a handlebar bag equipped. I think it's a combination of having relatively high trail (65mm with 700c) and somewhat steep 71.5deg HT angle and pretty damn long stem (100mm). There just feels like there is a ton of intertia on the steering axis way out front. Whereas I can ride without touching the handelbars pretty much indefinitely on my Cannondale (700C, 73° HT 58mm trail) I feel the Ribble just wanders and has a mind of its own. Probably (?) more stable for off road downhill but it isn't great for a commuter setup, which is what I use the bike for in the rain season. How can I fix? Put a rear rack and panniers instead of the bar bag? Shorter stem?

What am I feeling here, is it the relatively high trail?

 

[Omnis]

I finally finished my Space Horse build after my brakes were delivered yesterday. Went with a set of Juin Tech F1s, which are cable-actuated hydraulic calipers. My GOD what a difference decent brakes actually make. I'm fully convinced that what I bought was just some frame outfitted with a bunch of shop junk to get it out the door. Anyway, I also lucked out with the chain situation. I got a YBN 11-speed chain, and it was just long enough to fit on the 46t chainring. Had I gone any higher with a 48 or 50, I would have had to buy two chains and cannibalize one to make it long enough. I'll be keeping the other one in case I throw the 36er back on the front if I'm ever in any hilly situations. I'll also get some compressionless brake housing later on and re-wrap the bars when it comes time to install that. Don't really have a need to right now. The tape's a little chewed up but it's not horrible, so since I spent all the time deep-cleaning everything I'll run that for a little bit more until it gets filthy or even more torn up again. Pics incoming tomorrow.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

As I frequently commute to work on my bike and at the same time I've been trying to go to the gym more often I've come up on storage limits on my bike. My handlebar bag can fit lunch in a pinch, but if I need more space I'm taking my backpack. Riding a bike with a backpack sucks. So I did a thing and picked up a Blackburn rear rack and ordered one of these Pannier backpacks from priority.

I've also now started to lean towards the Marin Muirwoods as my potential do-whatever bike. I don't think I could build a 90s MTB the way I want it for the cost of the Muirwoods, and that bike is almost the exact geometry and feature set I'm looking for (which a 90s MTB could never really be). It's not a high end steel frame but 4130 CrMo is totally acceptable. The only thing I would change, at first anyways, is the handlebar setup (looking for more rise, maybe the Surly Sunrise bar from the Lowside) and 650b wheelset. I wonder if I could work with the dealer to either sell me the bike without a wheelset or switch it out for a 650b wheelset.

I honestly cannot find a bike similar to this for anywhere close to the price. Look how slack that headtube is! It's basically an urban rigid mountain bike...which is pretty much what I want.

 

[Greycap]

The only thing I would change, at first anyways, is the handlebar setup (looking for more rise, maybe the Surly Sunrise bar from the Lowside) and 650b wheelset. I wonder if I could work with the dealer to either sell me the bike without a wheelset or switch it out for a 650b wheelset.

Careful with that, unless you go for balloon tyres which may not fit to begin with. It has a 289 mm BB height with 700C x 40, that'll drop to 270 mm with 650B wheels which would require ~60 mm tyres to cancel the wheel size difference. My Chisel has 309 mm with the stock tyres, now around 10 mm less so something like 299 mm which is still more than the Muirwoods even in its stock configuration, and I've managed pedal strikes around town with it (175 mm cranks for the record) when going into sharp corners in a bit too spirited way.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Hmm interesting...not something I considered. I'm gonna go look at one this weekend to see how much clearance there is at the chain stays and at the front fork for some large volume 650b - I might just bring my spare 650b wheelset and see if the bike shop will let me test fit at least the front. If it fits 47s I'd guess that will be roughly similar to 700x40 in total O.D.

My Ribble has 282mm BB height and I've never had a pedal strike on road as far as I remember...though I'm always subconsciously bringing my inside pedal up to at least 9/3 oclock (if not 12 oclock) during corners because I'm used to my Cannondale which is real low (269).

Before hitting reply I found this where it appears that for a similar tire, a 650b x 47 will position the bike 15mm lower (30mm smaller, total) than a 700c x 40. Just based on the pictures, I don't think anything in the 2"+ tire range will fit. So that would put the theoretical 650b x 47 Muirwoods at 275. Better than the Cannondale, but realistically maybe a bit too low. Sigh. One of the other bikes I was considering, the Kona Dr. Dew actually has 272mm height stock with 650bx47...so, who knows? I should just test ride one and be extra aggro and see what happens. I actually emailed Marin bikes to ask them about a Muirwoods on 650b and they gave me kind of un-detailed response that the bike is designed for 700C.

 

[Greycap]

If it fits 47s I'd guess that will be roughly similar to 700x40 in total O.D.

The rule of thumb is that you need +20 mm on a 650B when compared to a 700C, it's 19 mm less in radius. I didn't pull that ~60 mm balloon tyre out of thin air.

Looking at the pictures, the front will probably fit whatever you want, as does the seatstay area. The chainstays is where it gets tight if somewhere.

EDIT - someone has thrown full on 650MTB tyres on one. Not sure if the frame has changed for the current model.

https://medium.com/@heruiming/2-year-review-of-the-marin-muirwoods-budget-tourer-awesome-commuter-a6b7d3c07cc4

Seriously though, I can understand the thought behind 650B feeling snappier, but don't be so sure about it. The wheel isn't THAT much smaller, the inertia isn't THAT much lower, and the rim or tyre weights don't differ basically at all. Admittedly I haven't ridden a 26" hardtail for ten years but I still have my old 26" full suspension and it has a pretty good rear shock lockout. The red Chisel still leaves it absolutely standing when putting power down, sure it has a pretty lightweight wheelset but the 26" doesn't have anchors either, and yes it's a hardtail but the half an inch of travel in the locked out shock doesn't make that much difference. The point being that the 700C outruns the 26" with ease, in other words just about everything else matters more than the wheel size.

I like numbers, so... the diameter difference between a 650B and a 700C when shod with tyres of similar width is roughly comparable to a car having 205/55R16 vs. 205/65R16 tyres. Can you feel the overall size, not the higher profile? Doubt it.

What I'm trying to say is that if you can, test it with its stock wheels, and if it feels good as is don't overthink it any further. Of course the 650B test would be a good one but it's very possible that you don't even need it.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

The rule of thumb is that you need +20 mm on a 650B when compared to a 700C, it's 19 mm less in radius. I didn't pull that ~60 mm balloon tyre out of thin air.

Looking at the pictures, the front will probably fit whatever you want, as does the seatstay area. The chainstays is where it gets tight if somewhere.

EDIT - someone has thrown full on 650MTB tyres on one. Not sure if the frame has changed for the current model.



Seriously though, I can understand the thought behind 650B feeling snappier, but don't be so sure about it. The wheel isn't THAT much smaller, the inertia isn't THAT much lower, and the rim or tyre weights don't differ basically at all. Admittedly I haven't ridden a 26" hardtail for ten years but I still have my old 26" full suspension and it has a pretty good rear shock lockout. The red Chisel still leaves it absolutely standing when putting power down, sure it has a pretty lightweight wheelset but the 26" doesn't have anchors either, and yes it's a hardtail but the half an inch of travel in the locked out shock doesn't make that much difference. The point being that the 700C outruns the 26" with ease, in other words just about everything else matters more than the wheel size.

I like numbers, so... the diameter difference between a 650B and a 700C when shod with tyres of similar width is roughly comparable to a car having 205/55R16 vs. 205/65R16 tyres. Can you feel the overall size, not the higher profile? Doubt it.

What I'm trying to say is that if you can, test it with its stock wheels, and if it feels good as is don't overthink it any further. Of course the 650B test would be a good one but it's very possible that you don't even need it.

I think it's mostly the front where I feel a difference, at least when switching back and forth on my Ribble. Not so much acceleration but more of nimbleness.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Man the Lowside truly is a unique bike. I did a search on 99 spokes based on key aspects of the Lowside geo (namely the short wheelbase, moderately slack head tube angle, moderate trail, and short chainstays, with a rigid fork, steel frame and 27.5 or 650b wheels), and the search turned up very few results. The Kona unit sneaks in there when you loosen up the front end parameters (the back is quite similar to the lowside) but I think it would feel like a much different bike with such a significant amount more trail. Other than that, you get the Rose Hobo, Ribble Adventure, and the Salsa Fargo (and the Marin Larkspur, interestingly enough, but that bike is waaay too heavy for me to consider.) The Geometry is clearly on the pack mule side of things (a bunch more off road touring bikes show up when you increase the wheelbase parameter even a little) which is so interesting to me because the Lowside is...not that. I just need to ride one.

edit: I think what I like about how the Lowside looks is also down to the very low stack. Loosening up the other parameters but keeping the stack low (<580mm) eliminates literally every other bike from the comparison. Letting the head tube angle and trail max out, the only other rigid steel bike that comes up is...yep, the Unit which also has a very low & compact looking frame, but is much longer and slacker than the Lowside. I think quill stems or bars with a high rise are very unfashionable these days, so to keep the stems and bars short & low modern MTB geo tends to bring the top tube up quite high. This probably also allows for more suspension travel. I guess I'm on the hunt for a bike that isn't very common. I want kind of a goldilocks frame that is fun to toss around and nimble (so not super high trail & not very slack with a pretty short wheelbase) but can also handle bombing around an urban/suburban environment with some limited amount of off road. I found this random reddit post where somebody is building up a Unit pretty similar to what I have in mind.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

So I really don't want to pay $800-900 for a frameset as rudimentary as a Lowside or Unit (particularly with them being bog standard 4130 steel) but they are basically what I want in terms of geometry. On the other hand, both bikes are sort of overbuilt, with the Unit being particularly heavy and geared towards bikepacking since the new model came out in 2020. This is not a bike I would put bags on. So...conundrum. Then I stumbled upon these guys...

MarinoBike

It's an outfit out of Peru that builds steel frames to whatever geometry you give them. Starting price is $325 for rigid frames in 4130. BUT they can do all the way up to Reynolds 853! I sent them an email if they are OK copying geometry from mainstream brands and they had no issue with it. They also had no issue with making provisions for belt drive. So I could basically make myself a high-end tubeset Lowside with a belt-compatible chainstay and less enormous tire clearance. I think with the upgraded tubes and other extras it would end up being around $700, which is around the price of the Lowside, but it would be significantly lighter. What I have in my mind for this bike is basically a Gymkhana bike...if that makes any sense. A super agile suburban killer that begs to be chucked around just for the joy of it.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

@Greycap - You know anything about OnOne bikes? Not a brand I see here...ever...but apparently they are a more known commodity in Europe. This popped up on my local marketplace and I'm very tempted.

It's steel
It's rigid (although, i'm 99% sure these actually had a big 'ol fork on them from the factory)
It's got a compact/low stack frame
It's got disc brakes
It's yellow
It's less than half the price of a Lowside or Unit

The bars are weird and I would definitely change them, and I would prefer 27.5" if they fit but this ticks a lot of boxes.

Thoughts?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Next year's TDF is gonna be a good one - Primoz (Bora) v Jonas (JV) v Tadej (UAE) v Remco* (SQS). There's even going to be some gravel KMs though I'm not sure its enough to be anything other than a novelty.

*I'm not convinced Remco is a genuine competitor for the whole race, but he does have a way of lighting up stages.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Alright bike bretheren, I think I might have found the one. After a frankly exhausting search, I discovered the Redline Monocog. It's geometry fits somewhere between the Unit & Lowside, it has a 4130 steel frame, rigid fork, and single speed drivetrain. It's on the heavy side at 29lbs but I doubt the Unit or Lowside are lighter. But UNLIKE the Surly & Kona, the Redline is $799 brand new...because it comes from a BMX brand. I don't necessarily have a problem spending $1500 on a bike (My Ribble was over $3k) but I don't want to spend that much on a bike I intend to just ride around town, lock up, and not worry about too much. With that in mind, the Monocog seems almost ideal. Everything that is lacking on that bike with regards to component selection is either easily fixed (like the handlebars...I still want the Surly sunrise bars) or actually preferred - like the mech. disc brakes. I want this thing to be bomb proof. Apparently, Redline used to make a variant of this bike with a belt drive which is sadly unavailable now. But I'm sure a good frame mechanic could hook me up.

Aligning all three (Unit, Lowside, Monocog) to the axle centerlines, the frames are almost identical -

It's basically the same bike as the Unit, but for half the price.

edit: wow that's 6 posts in a row from me. Yikes.

 

[Omnis]

That's actually hilarious that you bring up Redline...

Dug my childhood steed out of the garage. LOVED this bike and it was fast as hell. My dad and I went to the bike shop and he got me the lightest BMX bike they had in the store, because I had to carry it up 4 flights of stairs every day. I always thought it was aluminum because it was so light, but it's 4130 and all rusty now. And compared to my TCR and even the Space Horse it's HEAVY.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Yeah I had a sweet BMX bike as a kid...unfortunately long gone so I'd have no way of knowing what brand it was. 95% certain it was a big box store bike, but I loved it all the same.

Apparently the Monocog has a 26.8mm seatpost...which is basically a defunct standard and therefore no (practical) dropper posts are available. I don't know exactly how I would use the bike, but being limited in this regard is a big bummer. It also has a weird BB standard and outdated hub spacing and, somehow, a QR fork. I think I'm gonna pass on this one.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

What the actual...

So you're telling me that I can get a Tange Prestige MTB frame, from a local fabricator, with geometry similar to the Lowside and Unit, WITH a belt drive chainstay break for half the cost of a Kona Unit 4130 frame? I'm seriously in disbelief. This is it - exactly what I've been looking for.

Soma Frame Riff Blue (Belt-Drive)

Out of stock. I'm signing up for hella updates.

 

[Omnis]

Yeah, surprised you didn't look at Soma before. They make great stuff. Was gonna go with their Cazadores tires (custom/better Pana rubber.) until I found the $30 Byways on Bezosmart. That Path Less Pedaled guy is all about Soma. I've come to respect the bicycle hipsters that just keep things simple. If I part ways with the Space Horse, the next bike would likely be a Sour or a Lauf.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Yeah, surprised you didn't look at Soma before. They make great stuff. Was gonna go with their Cazadores tires (custom/better Pana rubber.) until I found the $30 Byways on Bezosmart. That Path Less Pedaled guy is all about Soma. I've come to respect the bicycle hipsters that just keep things simple. If I part ways with the Space Horse, the next bike would likely be a Sour or a Lauf.

I have some Byways I could have sent you for free!

 

[Omnis]

I have some Byways I could have sent you for free!

How big though?
I was looking at Swamperos and Thunderos and stuff because they've got good reviews and low rolling resistance, etc. But, bro, I was struggling to keep 14-15 on the levee. Might as well just put the toughest thing possible on there and call it a day. She's a heavy beast and gravel is hardddddd. I dunno how these guys do hills. Strada Bianca and Unbound and all that stuff... those guys are total psychos.

Here's the swamp horse...

Any tips for slipping seat posts on steel? When I started there was at least 2 inches above the N in "THOMSON" My bum was sitting on the back edge of the saddle after it dropped and I had to turn around. Only did like 10 miles but it was tough. Also, wondering if I should ride in a PAPR so I don't get silicosis from all that limestone dust What a mess!

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I've tried WTB Byways, Teravail Rutlands, and Rene Herse Juniper Ridge - I like Rene Herse the best. They roll on pavement better than the Rutlands in my experience and have longer treadlife. They have far more traction than the Byways off road. If you aren't doing any climbing, the Byways are probably a better tire. I also have a 700cX35 Gravelking Slick setup and that does surprisingly well on smooth pack.

Bike looks really good.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Well the reason the SOMA frame is so cheap is that it's on a closeout sale. I'm not sure if they are discontinuing the model or what. So I have the following options -

Get a medium (440mm ST) chain drive for $265
Get a large (470mm ST) belt drive for $295

I'm kind of a tweener at 5'-10" (~178cm) with a 32.25" (~82cm) inseam so I don't think a large would be far off, it's just that I prefer smaller bikes typically - I'm more leg than torso. Anyone have any recommendation? SOMA is somewhat known for being bad at communicating, so I've reached out to them, but I'm not expecting a fruitful answer.

I honestly struggle to believe I couldn't flip one of those frames on craigslist for at least $500 considering they retail for $700 new when not on sale. I'm considering buying both and seeing which fits me better. Is that nuts? I really want the belt drive, but I also want a bike that I enjoy riding.

 

[Shaun]

I'm considering buying both and seeing which fits me better. Is that nuts? I really want the belt drive, but I also want a bike that I enjoy riding.

Nah, if you can afford it go for it.

Rule of thumb, you can always make a small frame a bit bigger with components but you can't make a big frame any smaller.
Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing the build. 👍

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I did some more analysis and determined that the Med. size Riff has almost exactly the same reach as my old Giant Roam, which is a bike I felt extremely comfortable on so I think that should be the one. Its a steel frame so I could always have a good shop modify the rear triangle for a belt drive down the road if I want to. For now I'm going to plan to set it up single speed and see how I like it.

edit:

I did the thing