The Childfree Thread.

[McLaren]

I don't think I'd ever want kids. They're noisy, their hands are always inexplicably sticky and they generally make things messy.

And besides I was the best child in existence so any child I have would only be a disappointment.

Although having said that, I'd love to be able to crack out the 'you don't have kids, you wouldn't understand' holier than thou attitude that occasionally runs rampant on here.

Have kids, become jerk. Every single one of them.

When can I hire you to babysit?

 

[Katiegan]

What is that supposed to signify?

That was my expression upon reading that.

 

[Tom]

I'm in a debacle between the two at the moment. I do adore my niece and cousins when I see them, and my family do compliment my 'childhandling' (to use such a term) skills. But, I'm not sure that I could handle one full-time, especially given my career choice of Motorsport Journalism which, if successful, may lead to global travel on a regular basis.

I know that things will be different ten years down-the-line however, so I'll have to assess my situation then, however I've made it perfectly clear that I would only consider it if I could dedicate the time to he/she/them (as stated) and that I could financially support a family.

 

[photonrider]

Great topic, Carbonox! 👍 And a very relevant discussion in this day and age when we have thrown away whatever conditioning we have been traditionally imbued with and are emancipated enough to make the choices we want to rather than have to.
I have four kids - three of my own and a step-daughter - and I love them all dearly. The love they return makes life worth living - in fact even subliminally gives it purpose if not meaning.

Having said that - some of my favourite friends are childless - most of them (or is it all? Got to think about that) are deliberately non-reproductive. They are also my more relaxed, freedom-loving, and fun friends. Taking on the mission to provide the world with children is no easy task.

Most of them also admire me for being a family man, and enjoy my kids a lot when we meet - spoiling them rotten and chastising me if I rebuke them in their presence. Nothing wrong with being child-free is what I'm saying I suppose.

Good luck in your endeavors, and may you find all the happiness you are looking for.

 

[DG_Silva]

I'm in an unusual position of being enforced childless and by choice childfree. I'm gay, and obviously unable to reproduce naturally, but when my partner and I have discussed it in the past (we have been together for 12 years), both of us have agreed that we don't want children, and in fact children are best when they're someone else's, because you can give them back when you're done (please read that with tongue-in-cheek).

Other people have suggested adopting, but as said before, we find it hard to look after ourselves financially, it would be utterly irresponsible for us to bring a child into that environment.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Yeah, 34 and can in no way see Children in my future. Doesn't bother me so much personally, but it's depressing to think that the family-line will stop at my generation.

 

[High-Test]

When I was 19, there was no way I was having kids.
When I was 21, I got married and told everyone that I didn't like kids so they stop asking when my wife and I were going to have kids (the question was from my mom at the wedding reception )
When I was 22, my wife and I decided that we would have two kids and no more. They must not be allowed to outnumber us.
When I was 26, we had our first son.
When I was 27, we had out second son.
Still 27, Thing 2 was diagnosed with CF.
When I was 28, I had a vasectomy. It was less expensive then birth control pills and, especially the way this doctor did it, there's VIRTUALLY no possible way for one of the little swimmers to make it through. I already have one rather expensive illness in the family. I can't handle two.
Now that I'm 36, there's no way I'd change any of the above.

For you guys that are under the age of 21 saying you don't want kids (Especially because of diapers. Really? Grow up.) after you find "the right person", see if that attitude changes. I'm betting it will. And you'll be better off for it.

Thing 2 (Spencer?) is nine years old and still doing well, I hope. (No more run-ins with the TSA over that jacket thing, I hope)

I'm 24 and tragically single. Supposing I were married, I would do my damnedest not to have children until both of us were ready.

I do intend on having a family one day. 2 kids. Preferably one boy and one girl. But I'll take what I get. And maybe adopt a third. I've got six nieces and nephews so the drudgery doesn't scare me in the slightest.

But for now, the issue is moot. I suspect I'll be childless for quite a while. Plus, my youngest niece (who we call satan) is the most powerful birth control I've ever seen. That kid.... makes my haploids ponder the ramifications of the purpose of their existence.

 

[Cano]

I'm 31, my wife is 30. December 6th we celebrated out 7th year as wife and husband, but we've been together for about 13 years. We're clearly not ready to have kids and are scared to death of them, and we don't like kids either, both of us find them incredibly annoying and a burden we don't want to endure.

Even so, we think having a children, at least one, might be in order in the as-distant-as-our-bodies-will-let-us future just so we won't be all alone when we grow old. At least not that alone, and will have someone who more or less looks after us when we really are old it might sound really low, but that's the only reason we've come up to more or less wanting to have kids. Er, kid.

With that said, I'm sure out attitude will most likely change when we have the little bastard with us and we'll want to give him a borther/sister so he/she won't be alone and all that trash. I hate to say it, but a family is most likely in our future, even if we don't really want such a thing. We'll see.

But for now, at least fo the next 5 years, NOPE.

 

[Slash]

I don't think anyone can really prepare for a child...I think it's one of those things that you deal with accordingly when the time comes.


Although, I can't say for sure since I don't have one.

 

[TigJackson]

My wife and I will celebrate our 36th wedding anniversary on December 16, 2013. While we were planning our wedding and future lives, we agreed to have only two children. We were blessed with two healthy, wonderful, and beautiful daughters. The oldest is now 34 years old and the youngest is 33 years old, and each of them is most likely older than most of the members that have posted on this thread to date.

I an now semi-retired after working very hard as a Registered Professional Engineer and Registered Professional Land Surveyor for over 42 years. My wife has been a stay-at-home Mom since our eldest daughter was born. As a team, we have supported our daughters throughout the entirety of their lives. Certainly a child can seem to be an overwhelming experience during their infant stage, but things get much better and very rewarding within a relatively short period of time.

We have always been very proud of our ‘kids’. They have never been in any kind of trouble, primarily because my wife always kept them occupied with swimming lessons, piano lessons, guitar lessons, bowling lessons, volleyball camps, etc. during their formative years. They both attended a local private school from Pre-K through high school graduation, and then they both graduated from St. Mary’s University in San Antonio, Texas. My eldest daughter earned her Master’s Degree in Physical Therapy from the University of Texas Medical Branch, and my youngest daughter earned her Master’s Degree in Business Administration from Texas A&M University. Both of my daughters completed their education without owing a single penny to anyone, since I am very proud to say that my wife and I paid for every bit of their tuition every step of the way.

They both have great jobs in satisfying careers at the present time, and they certainly appreciate the sacrifices that we have made to help them out in life. The dividends that we are presently receiving from these ‘sacrifices’ proves that we made some very wise investments. We would do exactly the same thing all over again if we had the chance, which we are actually 'somewhat' doing since our first grandchild arrived earlier this year.

tl;dr? Then briefly, I greatly enjoyed the experience of raising and developing two wonderful daughters, and would do it all over again in a heartbeat!

 

[watermelon punch]

Even so, we think having a children, at least one, might be in order in the as-distant-as-our-bodies-will-let-us future just so we won't be all alone when we grow old. At least not that alone, and will have someone who more or less looks after us when we really are old it might sound really low, but that's the only reason we've come up to more or less wanting to have kids. Er, kid.

I think that's one of the strongest drives motivating people to want children, but probably often unconsciously, and as you express, it's almost like taboo to talk about it. As if there's something wrong with wanting affection of family in old age!

It's not as necessary if the society has a decent pension system for old age. Especially if good. But historically, that's why people have long had not one or two children, but many, to make sure at least a few survive to help the elder generation.
Obviously a natural drive, and perfectly logical.

And, most people need the warmth of human companionship. Regardless of age.
I see this with my mother, who prefers to live independently in her gated retirement community in Florida since being widowed. She has no grandchildren anyway to spend time with, and a full social life of similarly aged peers in a climate she likes. They have stuff going on in her community constantly. I could see how that would seem preferable than moving in with one of her childless married children in a state where it snows in winter & more limited community social options.
Perhaps that's what makes me not worry too much about being lonely in old age, I don't know.

 

[Danoff]

When I brought up infertility in the GTPlanet Dads thread (or father's day thread, I can't remember) I was attacked for pooing in the punchbowl and ruining the party and run off. When someone creates a thread intended to discuss living without children, all anyone wants to do is explain why they disagree. Sooo much of this thread blatantly ignores the point.

 

[xXKingJoshXx]

I hope to never have kids. I can't say it will never happen but I just hope it never does. I would be an awful parent and if my kid was anything like me, I'd end up going [more] insane. I've already driven my mom insane and I can't imagine what I would do to someone like me that can barely take care of themself.


(damn that makes no sense )

 

[Imari]

I have nothing against kids. They're kind of fun, and I think a lot of adults could do well to remember not to be so serious. I enjoy looking after other people's kids.

That said, I haven't had and probably won't ever have kids simply because they don't fit with how I want to live my life. I value my freedom to work really hard at my job if I want to, to bugger off for the weekend on a moment's notice, to get wasted on weeknights, basically to enjoy myself.

I suspect parents get a similar enjoyment out of looking after their kids, but I know I wouldn't. Kids are not for me.

My limit is cats. Give them food, play with them occasionally and they generally look after themselves. I simply don't have the interest in spending the next twenty years teaching a kid how to be a good human, when I could be spending that time teaching myself how to be a good human.

Basically, I'm a selfish prick who would rather spend his time on himself than on kids. And I'm pretty OK with that.

 

[kikie]

Sometimes when I see a father, a friend or a total stranger, with his little daughter and how she adores here father, I have this little feeling of jealousy because I can't have that.

But then I start to think about what it means to be a father, the responsibilities, the changes in my lifes (of which I'm a fraid) and this jealous feeling goes away very quickly and I'm back to my original feeling of not wanting children.

I have another good reason. It's a personal reason that makes sense in my mind but probably doesn't when other's read it.
This reason is 'genetics'. There is always a slight chance that my child(ren) will inherent the genetic defect that makes my life very hard:

1) it's personal but it has to do with the way I look and why I have been bullied for years and years.​

2) My genetic predisposition for depressions, panic, phobia etc... .​

I'm afraid that my child(ren) will have to go through the same crap as I have.


The unknown is scary for most people and becoming a father is scary because it is a new experience which brings a lot or responsibilities.

 

[Danoff]

I have another good reason. It's a personal reason that makes sense in my mind but probably doesn't when other's read it.

It's a good thought, and one that a lot of people don't consider. You should know, however, that you can have children without them being related to you. There are a variety of ways to accomplish that. I'm not necessarily advocating that you do that, just wanted to make sure you were aware of the options.

 

[ENDURANCEGUY]

Personally, I wouldn't mind having children (I hate using the term "kid") Although they are sometimes a bit annoying and loud (Which I have VERY little tolerance of) which stresses me, if I were to have children.
As of now, I'm not really interested in having children, and probably in the future as well.
One thing that I can't get out of my head when I think about having children is the responsibility that is required. Even though I'm quite a responsible person, I don't think I would be able to take care of my own children. Also, I looking into being a full time musician, more specifically a composer. I worry that I might not have enough time for my children, or simply they will interfere with my career.
That's all I really have about having children, for now.
~ENDURANCEGUY

 

[wfooshee]

My situation is similar to TB's in his earlier post, with the exception that I never found someone with whom I was able to make the commitment for marriage and family. Not because I wasn't looking, but there were always issues. I'd discover something about a woman that frankly I couldn't live with. Another would be the that way about me, perhaps. Or one that I know would have been perfect was..... elsewhere.

To me, the issue was never, "Damn it! I've got to have kids!!!!!" It was, "Damn it! Where is the one I can have kids with?"

I have stepchildren, now. When I finally married at age 42, she had two teens and a pre-teen. Even though "that woman" left me some 11 years later for another man, the kids and I are still close and one of them still calls me "Dad." (The other two never did, by the way.) Their kids call me Grandpa, and all is well with that situation, so no regrets.

But had there been the right woman at the right stage, the kids would have followed as a matter of course, the way Nature intended.

 

[MatskiMonk]

One of the things I do miss about having kids, is the ability to bore interest the crap out of all my friends on facebook with 20 updates a day about my kids doing the same stuff as every other new parent I know on facebook...

 

[ProjectWHaT]

a gamer who has a child for 8 months and he talks about how being a father is like (language warning)
It sounds great having kid

 

[watermelon punch]

When I brought up infertility in the GTPlanet Dads thread (or father's day thread, I can't remember) I was attacked for pooing in the punchbowl and ruining the party and run off. When someone creates a thread intended to discuss living without children, all anyone wants to do is explain why they disagree. Sooo much of this thread blatantly ignores the point.

In women dominated discussion areas on the internet (ie: not here lol) - the phenomenon is called "Mombies"!!!

With Mombies, motherhood always trumps everything & anything, and that's that.

If the topic is specifically about NOT being a mother -- like about birth control methods, infertility, young singlehoodness without children, or even menopause without having had children, mothers still have an opinion about it relating to the fact that they are a mother, and somehow bring their children into it somehow.
Never mind it's not okay to be a non-parent & join in their motherhood discussions about anything - even youths in general or education in a society. Not even if you're a professional teacher by trade!!!

(BTW: I'm not a teacher - but I've seen teachers nastily run out of discussions about children in school, by mothers who think women who are teachers, but are not mothers, have NO place in casual discussions about children & school, generally speaking in the community! )

I don't know if there's a male version of that. But it just goes to show people are people.

Is there a father version of Sanctimommies too?
They also like to bring motherhood into non-parent non-children related topics. And absolutely forbid non-parents have opinions at all about children in society - or even civilization. You don't get a say in the world at all, if you don't have kids.

They specifically like to judge non-mothers, especially women who have chosen not to have children.
But they don't stop there. They also judge women who are not mothering the way they think all mothers should mother.
If you're a mother, but you're not ALL INTO BEING A MOTHER, and like worshipping your children publicly all the time, and basically living every minute of your life only focused on your kids... then beware - you too can be the target of a Sanctimommy.

Oh, and they LOVE to pour on public overly saccharine pity on any women who is unable to have children.
And that's usually when the "oh but you can adopt" pours in.
No offense Danoff. But that's a pretty typical one. There''s always someone who assumes someone's been living in a cave somewhere & doesn't know about adoption & never thought of it before!

Of course having said all this, of course these "Mombies" and "Sanctimommies" are not ALWAYS behaving like this. They're probably pretty ordinary people at most times in their lives, and in most situations. And perfectly ordinary people are probably the ones who sometimes make Mombie & Sanctimommy comments on the internet.

Chances are they don't know that they're doing that, or how it comes across when they exclude non-parents in some discussions, then horn in on a discussion about non-parenthood.

But I think it's only fair to point this out, and how we, the non-parents, see this sort of thing.

 

[Speedy Samurai]

You're 19. You're a child yourself in many ways.

 

[watermelon punch]

You're 19. You're a child yourself in many ways.

I remember people said the same thing about my grandfather when he was in his 70s.
And he started working, full time, 12hrs per day, 6 days per week, in the coal mines, at age 12.

 

[Keef]

I've a strategy for remaining childfree which involves of combination of rarely getting laid and not being an idiot when I do. I'm 25 and it's worked a lot better than many people I went to high school with.

 

[Speedy Samurai]

I remember people said the same thing about my grandfather when he was in his 70s.
And he started working, full time, 12hrs per day, 6 days per week, in the coal mines, at age 12.

I don't get what you're trying to say here.

 

[W3H5]

I do suppose it's time I put a serious post in on this topic today I have time on my hands.

I'm childfree, but not because I want to be. My wife is still in her career building stage and I'be always told her it is her choice on the matter.

We are both harassed constantly by our parents who are aching for grandchildren.

I'be spent the majority of my adult life chasing challenges to fill the void that I have. Saying that, I have a 3 year old sister in China and a 6 year old one in the UK.

My career (when I'm not motorcycle touring) involves working with kids, sometimes as young as 3, and I love it.

I expect I'll join the world of parenthood in the next few years and doubt I would ever regret bringing a child into creation even if they end up as screwed up as I am.

If i can't have kids I would certainly consider adoption, though, saying that, an ex of mine had a miscarrage so I don't think I'm infertile.

Some peopleht think I'm not mature enough(or mental stable enough)tohave kids but I am 27 and my father was 18 when I was born. He had no father, an absent mother and all the mental issues I have and I turned out fine, right?

Still, to sum up, I do feel a void from being childless. I don't want to be too old before my first child arrives. Time is aticking!

To all those who don't want kids then that is your choice, but i have to ask, do you not have a deep down feeling that you want to pass on your genetics, just from a survival point of view?

 

[photonrider]

When I brought up infertility in the GTPlanet Dads thread (or father's day thread, I can't remember) I was attacked for pooing in the punchbowl and ruining the party and run off.

Here's the truth:

You were never in the GTPlanet Dads Thread; you must have pooed in some other punch-bowl. Did it end in a brawl?


IIRC - the TS of that discussion (which is more of a 'Dads touching base with other Dads' corner of this vast and versatile Forum) was in here to compliment and support the OP in his choice, while he himself had taken what could crudely be taken as an 'opposing' choice - taking on the burden of providing Evolution with fresh material naturally.

_____________________________________________________

And on that note . . . let us move on with the discussion.
Is anything wrong about being child-free?
Obviously circumstances matter; a breeder would definitely not want their breeding stock to be child-free. Rather - the reverse, since that is the means to the end.
If there was only one man and woman left on Earth would we want them to be child-free? Most certainly not, if we wanted to populate Earth again.
What of the reverse? What if the breeder bred too much and ran out of room, and/or fodder - would they be wiser to cut back on the mounting breeding stock? Yes; they may even be able to cull the stock and focus on better breeds, crossing only the strongest and even avoiding reproducing stock that would only be redundant (if only in terms of quantity) within the pile of genes worked with.

Back to the man and woman - programmed heavily to reproduce and multiply themselves, genetically wired to shuck off their jeans in a heartbeat given the chance, the bait being the most sensational bunch of chemicals to shock the brain (the 'controlling' center, anyway) into blind ecstasy.
A reward for surviving.
And if this man and woman happened to stumble into another man and woman - or at least looked similar enough to the brain to trigger the reproductive response - well now we got quite a pair of pairs here (think of ones and zeros meeting dots and dashes) and a most complicated and extended bunch of patterns will begin to form as kissing cousins spread themselves around the countryside.

So who is the breeder of humans?

If we put aside the toolmaker and instead look at the tools used to figure out what's been made - then one of those tools that make humans reproduce is sex. (There are many other non-physical, psychological reasons why some people would like to have a Mini Me, but that's another issue.) If we look within Nature we can quite clearly see there is a drive among mainstream stock, to consummate the reproductive act, and be rewarded via the hit of ecstasy. What follows is more stock, more patterns, more genes put together towards a (certain) result.
This process of evolving new genetic codes, and new shapes and sizes and colours and textures and so on, (which we could call 'Biological Evolution') will go on until the entire environment that cradles the process is devoured - at which point the process will naturally fall back as populations get ravished by famine. Or cannibalism.

What is the overall state of the planet today? Surely there must be statistics out there that points to Nature overusing the carrot of sexual gratification and the world being overpopulated - at least in terms of the comfort level of all the human stock.

Humans are missing a 'breeder'. Or is there one out there, objective enough in their work, that decimates populations quite often to keep things in check?

And this is where 'child-free' people come in.

You see, breeder or not, one of the tools that happened to pop up into the human survival toolbox, in the process of all this evolving, was this thing called 'Choices'. A most important thing because it under-laid all activities - in fact gave the stock a tool called 'Will'. There was the ability to choose - to go counter to one's genetic evolutionary program.
Instead of blindly following the cry to 🤬 each other all to death, there was the will to choose to starve ourselves of the reward (Ecstasy! Live for it!) that was the bait for multiplication. Hence no reproduction. Hence an 'artificial' or counter-intuitive control being harnessed within the process itself. The will not to reproduce.
Animals cannot choose to stay away from each other when in heat - humans can choose to do that. Or not. That is willpower - and that is a tool most anomalous in Nature - because it gives the stock control of its own breeding.

Still with me?

A herd of animals moves as a herd - a flock of birds as with one mind - because that really is the case; they have one mind. Their perceptions are all keyed into an 'if P then Q' program and they react as such. Together, the same reaction, as one.
There is no chaos caused by conflicting wills since at any given moment their goals are in unison.

Humans, because of will, don't behave as a herd - and this is a secret used by many a dictator; for by stripping the people of their wills, their wills become his - and therefore greater power of will.
At the other extreme, because of freedom of will humans also 'do their own thing', again at great cost to the survival of the stock of humans as a whole.

So if we were to look at the world this way - and it is essentially the point of the discussion: 'child-free' or 'child-filled' - it is quite obvious that the world is not only overpopulated, but that certain countries (environments) have forced their people (stock) to stop with the excessive beating around the bush, and reduce on the people clutter.

But there was also a bonus that came with the 'Choices' tool.
One had to imagine sometimes - one had to choose from 'intangibles' and that is quite unlike a dog looking at a bone and a ball and trying to choose between the two. Humans don't have to look at stuff to choose.
Humans can imagine consequences or make 'educated guesses' based on former experiences and knowledge, and make choices based on those calculations. And this gave this anomalous stock, the human, the choice of getting the reward (Ecstasy! Live for it!) without reproducing and therefore being burdened with the job of looking after the consequences. As soon as humans figured out how to get the carrot without pulling the cart, the game of Choices became a lot more interesting.

Even if we take the positive out of it - the fact that the planet could well do better with fewer people and in fact do better with judicious stock management - it remains the right of the individual as to refuse to participate in reproducing (it being a participatory act anyway, because as I said in the beginning, the mixing of genes was of vital importance in propagating fresh patterns.)

What about people who choose to reproduce? Well, they are following their nature, or making a willing choice. If they can do what they chose to, successfully, this will bring forth more stock with the willpower to choose again.

At this point in time on the planet it is wise to balance our reproduction to match our resources.

And, as I also said in the beginning - it is all about circumstances. Is one forced to make a choice one way or the other?
If not - the choice is yours. Just make sure to the best of your ability that what you imagine the future will be will be.

Because of will power humans have lost the obligation to follow natural law; we have the freedom to be. Or not to be.
And equally, the responsibility of facing the consequences.

 

[watermelon punch]

I don't get what you're trying to say here.

Just making the point that the concept of maturity is very relative, and dependent on things like culture & situation, much moreso than physical chronological age.

If there was only one man and woman left on Earth would we want them to be childfree? Most certainly not, if we wanted to populate Earth again.

If there were only 2 people left on earth, there wouldn't be any "we" to judge them if they chose not to "breed".

 

[photonrider]

If.

It's hypothetical. You have to go beyond imagining and actually read the while post, too. And then you may find that it is a case of putting two and two together and actually coming up with a population. Or not.

 

[watermelon punch]

If.

It's hypothetical. You have to go beyond imagining and actually read the while post, too. And then you may find that it is a case of putting two and two together and actually coming up with a population.

I still don't feel I have a reason to judge them, or a personal motive for wanting them to repopulate the earth.
I think to believe in your hypothetical situation, must require to believing that humans continuing to exist is important somehow. Just because.
And not only that... if I'm not one of those 2 people & not related to them... I have no personal genetic stake in their continuing their line. 2 brothers or 8 cousins, and all that.

Maybe I would actually prefer they did NOT reproduce... particularly if the 2 people left on earth were humans I found abhorrent and abominable.

I'm not missing your point. I just find it somewhat distasteful.

I can't think of an instance where I would wish individuals to be coerced.

But then, if we're talking about BREEDING... Then I'm with the dog trainer & breeder I used to work for... She said that positive training was far more effective than negative.

If overpopulation is the problem - the solution is easy.
As you say, the needs of the individuals will ALWAYS trump the needs of the world as a whole.
We have plenty of data on the subject.
You just institute the policies that have been known to lower birth rates in a population. The kind that better people's lives.
(See one of my previous posts about one of the strongest practical motives for having children, and particularly to have many.)