- 924
- Engine Block
The damage system in GT5 (update : Mechanical Damage arrived only for online races)
- Thread starter DoctorFouad
- 1,071 comments
- 242,728 views
- 924
- Engine Block
I was surprised myself when I first saw it. Polyphony had been plugging away at their damage system, showing off more and more impressive builds of it at each gaming convention. Ironically, we get to the retail version and none of it is to be seen!
- 4,323
Has anyone been able to confirm that level 20 rumor about damage? I just can't believe it's true...
- 208
I have to say.. as much as this forum can hate on Forza, NFS and the other arcade games, their damage is much more convincing than GT's Lambo raming 100+ mpg into the wall with merely a dent on the bumper (and absolutely no effect on the windows...)
Sure the lambo exploded and got scratches, but if you really look, the body of the car really didn't deform at all.
I don't think you will see windows to any significant degree in a licensed game. Cracks - yes. Smashed out? Probably not. The manufacturers get very picky about anything that potentially allows any scenery to poke into the cockpit and make it look like it would hurt the driver. RBR is one of very few games to ever get away with a 'driver injury' class of damage and as time goes on it seems like more of a fluke (also that RB actually died can't help 
).
).
- 924
- Engine Block
I will confirm that tomorrow. Actually level 14, but probably 20 tomorrow if i play a lot.
Anyway, the actual damage system is Bad yes BUT Polyphony tried to make a LOCAL DAMAGE system not just RANDOM DAMAGE system with anarchistic pop-up like Forza.
Polyphony have make a mistake of gamedesign, the PS3 (like X360) are not enough powerfull to make that. Next generation maybe.... Nice try Polyphony, but it's too much early for that, particularly with HUGE complex 3D model car.
- 239
- zepheadGT3
agreed. i love GT, but there are many, many things about other racing games that completely destroy Gran Turismo: The damage model in Forza 2 and now Forza 3 is excellent and very well thought out. i think GRID has one of the best damage models (cosmetically speaking) i have ever seen. i have a horrible feeling that damage in GT5 is going to be halfhearted and not realistic, which im really disappointed about...
There is nothing well thought out about Forza 3's damage modelling. The damage and scratches apply themselves in sometimes very random ways. I've seen videos where you hit a wall with your nose, but scratches show up on all sides, regardless of where the car made contact.
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7HGWr3yHhA
How is that so much "better"?
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7HGWr3yHhA
How is that so much "better"?
- 142
looks better to me
Barely. Forza 3's damage system is more like a progressive model. Damage progresses in the same predetermined way for each car. In the end, it will always look the same no matter the circumstances of the crash.
And if PD were to copy that system, you guys wouldn't be satisfied either.
- 208
Nothing is "much better" or worse, but at least with the "arcade" games, there was an attempt to integrate damage as a core component of the game. Every game has its own faults, and there is no point in compiling a series of faults and noting which is more faulty than the others. GT5 is great, and I am going to line up come midnight Tuesday and have a great time on my PS3 with my chums.. however, I wish more was done to inject realistic damage as an aspect into this Real Driving Simulator.
- 4,323
While it's a choice of the lesser of two evils, I have to say I would rather have Forza's damage than what we have seen so far from GT5 (including how you don't have to unlock it and visual/mechanical damage are differente settings).
I would say Forza's damage does a reasonable job 80% of the time and the remainder varies from ok to "well that looks weird". But it does always at lesat look like believable damage and gets the point across of about what kind of damage a vehicle has taken.
Mechanical damage is where I am most sad... in a sim it's very important to have mechanical damage... it's nothing new... games have had mechanical damage back to PS1 and before... the fact GT is just now getting to it and that if it's there it's locked away behind hours of driving invincible bumper cars is just a shame...
While I know they are different games, I would like to see something along the lines of TOCA/Grid/Dirt style damage... race ending crashes and breaking wheels off are part of a realistic simulation in my book.
- 154
As a long time lurker, I'll just add my two cents.
What he is saying is that Forza's visual damage model is a generation behind GT5. Forza may look more dramatic, but its basically swapping the model "bumper" to "damage bumper" no matter what you do- this is an economic way of getting it done as it doesn't tax the processor very much. GT5 is doing real-time deformation that takes into account where the damage is, and at what speed.
At this point it looks like the system is far too light and does not properly represent an impact at say 100kph... but the system, or method of calculating the visual damage is superior.
If polyphony dialed up the severity of the damage, this damage system would be great. Who knows why it isn't, maybe manufacturer complaint, maybe it makes the cars look hideous (remember how much people complained about the severe damage in the Best Buy demo?)... or perhaps it does unlock at a higher level. In any case, visually I prefer real-time damage to Forza's damage simply because I don't want to see the same bonnet scratch race after race every time I bump into someone or crash into a wall.
For me any damage is a deterrent from bumper car racing, and that is something GT always had a problem with.
Now as for mechanical damage, that is something I really hope is in the extreme level racing (or >20 level racing- whatever)
I am sure everything you have seen is still around in code and probably still has assets to drive it, it's just locked down in terms of configuration. One of the advantages of having a PC version is that you then get dozens/hundreds/however many people chipping away at the game to get the most out of whatever's left in there. As with Shift:
I could make a video of gearbox (stuck gear), clutch, tyre wear and aero overheating damage but it's not terribly interesting to look at. All just sitting there turned off because it's assumed to be too complicated/not fun enough/not accessible enough for the console audience.
Presumably the limited RAM makes "scratch" textures harder to accomplish... particularly with so many cars on track, detailed tracks, rain, skidmarks etc.
It comes down to personal taste - those who prefer pre-rendered but high quality cosmetic damage without heavy damage deformation, or those who like the heavy deformation at the cost of the detailed, lighter "scratch" type stuff... Obviously we all want both, but that might have to wait till next gen when devs have much more room to move.
Personally I'm happy with either one as it's still an improvement over nothing at all - as long as it's good enough to indicate the mechanical damage I'm experiencing underneath (which is what the cosmetic stuff is there for IMO), then I don't see the need to throw insults at each other regarding which one is "better".
Above all else, I plan on spending more time on the track then off it, so the handling and physics is of greater importance to me than how buggered up the car gets when I eat concrete - after all, the more accurate the handling, the less I'll have to see the damage system.
It comes down to personal taste - those who prefer pre-rendered but high quality cosmetic damage without heavy damage deformation, or those who like the heavy deformation at the cost of the detailed, lighter "scratch" type stuff... Obviously we all want both, but that might have to wait till next gen when devs have much more room to move.
Personally I'm happy with either one as it's still an improvement over nothing at all - as long as it's good enough to indicate the mechanical damage I'm experiencing underneath (which is what the cosmetic stuff is there for IMO), then I don't see the need to throw insults at each other regarding which one is "better".
Above all else, I plan on spending more time on the track then off it, so the handling and physics is of greater importance to me than how buggered up the car gets when I eat concrete - after all, the more accurate the handling, the less I'll have to see the damage system.
- 37
- RabidWolfy
- Xx Wolfy xX
Sub-par cosmetic damage is hardly a deal breaker as I'm sure most will agree, but does anyone know more on mechanical damage.
Does mechanical damage work realistically at low speeds as well as high speeds? Like if I rear-end the guy in front of my going only a few km/h slower, it may damage the intake or any other mechanical system in the front end of that specific car, but if I slam into a wall at 150km/h, then my car should not be able to move regardless of the engine location as the front end should have crumpled (in real life).
Does mechanical damage work realistically at low speeds as well as high speeds? Like if I rear-end the guy in front of my going only a few km/h slower, it may damage the intake or any other mechanical system in the front end of that specific car, but if I slam into a wall at 150km/h, then my car should not be able to move regardless of the engine location as the front end should have crumpled (in real life).
- 2,080
- Oslo, Norway
- KaAre_kaNin
Is those NFS videos from PC? All damage I had on shift was broken windscreen...(PS3)
EDIT; Sorry... I should have read the hole post!
EDIT; Sorry... I should have read the hole post!
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- mungusCREEP
I don't want to spoil anything but their is a bronze hidden trophy that some of you may want to look at.
The damage is more extensive than what has been posted in this thread so far.
The damage is more extensive than what has been posted in this thread so far.
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