The damage system in GT5 (update : Mechanical Damage arrived only for online races)

[xraven13]

Omg, yes there is mechanical and visual damage, and its all super extreme on high levels. 1 hit and you are dead.

p.s. i am trying to convince myself

 

[speedfreak69]

That seems so dumb, if It's true. You can repeatably crash into stuff at 200mph with absolutely no consequences, other than slightly dented bumper like you were in a parking lot 10mph fender-bender, and still the car functions perfectly, but when you get to level 20, you're suddenly pro and damage switches on magically?? err...right.
I mean, I'd love to have realistic visual+mechanical damage, even if It has to be this stupid way, but I kinda doubt anything really changes after level 20, or whatever level it is "today"...

 

[r2nyGT5]

arcade racing game from 2006 that did gtaIV styled crash deformation, and it includes damage that affect handling with tires that rub and clip the fenders. To me, it looks better than what we have. I dont really care about damage but it makes me wonder what if GT5 used the same deformation system...

 

[TGabriel]

Car manufacturers don't want to see their car getting wrecked in a simulation game, which could harm their image of safety (f.e.).

But if they care so, why don't they adapt their computer-models to a shell and interior only, and send it to PD. Probably afraid the models would be illegally used for reproduction in real life?

 

[XEPEGTP]

Regarding this level 20 damage / increased difficulty (if it exists) there are 2 things which I find confusing.


The 1st thing is the nature of a career in motorsport. Surely you want to learn from your mistakes, like all race drivers do. Amateur events are messy, people crash, cars get bent, you learn.

Exactly i mean i thought that was the point in starting with smaller slower cars, so if you do bump nudge rub wreeck, its not a big deal since it wasnt at such high speed, but you learn to avoid contact and dangerous situations as you progress into larger faster cars, the level of damage stays the same but the probability of having a major race ending collision gets higher as you progress...

But i think it should be there since day 1, as you work your way up from amateur to extreme, the damage does not get more intense\sensitive but the probability of it happening goes up considering the cars being driven at speeds theyre being driven.

If anything, there should be more sloppy driving and small time collisions in the lower tiers. But in the higher tiers, better driving, less collisions in general but bigger collisions when they do happen given the speeds.

 

[SteffenD89]

Just a thought: could it be that we will receive a patch wednesday that'll update/unlock/both the damage models.

Maybe PD wanted to adjust the damage after the game had gone and figured it could be done with a patch?

I know it's pretty far stretched

 

[RedPhoenix]

So ive been peeping in on this topic for quite a while now, and have come to my own conclusions about the damage model in GT5. Since Im not yet allowed to start my own thread i guess ill have to just write a post here.

I have long wondered what the technical limits of the ps3 would do to a game like GT5. It feels like just yesterday the system was being touted as the console to end the console wars! But alas this was when it was normal to see home computers with an average of one cpu, and maaaybe 2 gb of ram if you had the cash. The fact that Sony worked hard to develop a console with an awesome processor and gpu is commendable. Making it available and affordable even though the cost was high, is even more commendable. But at what cost? I feel that due to cost issues, the true bottleneck in the system has always been with the PS3's ram. Especially when displaying complex REAL-TIME deformations while at the same time using a complex lighting system that the PS3 uses on some games. There were several articles that were published after the release of the system that seemed to point out not only the systems faults in the difficult development processes, but also the fact that the system only had available 256 mb of ram for graphics, and 256 for system. It just seems that now, in a time where we are looking at media-centric, affordable pc's, with 4, 6, 8, and up to 24 gb of ram available as well as quad and 6-core processors, the PS3 is sadly seeing its aging specs show through its sexy exterior. Now of course we all love to see gorgeous graphics, and who could deny games like Uncharted and COD franchise their just dues for being wonderfully beautiful in design and execution. But can you just imagine what those games would have been like if the systems specs were built to be just a little more future-proof. Even if they bumped up the ram to 2gb for an extra 200 bucks per console. that would have extended the life of the system by years! and it shows that people were willing to pay upwards of $1k to buy it on opening day. Even the lowest end graphics cards for PC's have at least 512mb of ram strictly for graphics. And if it werent just the ram itself, sony could have spent a little more to optimize the way the PS3 accesses that ram.

Now, when you come to a game like GT5 you obviously hope for the best. I sure did. And boy even when i saw the very first screens of damage to that all too familiar blue rally car, I just wasn't convinced that the damage system was going to cut it. I had seen damage before in GRID, DIRT, NFS Shift, and LFS and RFactor. I knew that damage on a console could be done reasonably well. Even on games that were considered to be just fun arcade racers such as Burnout and the very-fun Flatout series. So when i saw the first footage of GT5's damage in action, I laughed it off as an early attempt at something entirely new for a company who had never had any experience with doing anything vaguely similar...BUT WAIT! We're talking about Polyphony Digital here! The company that brought us the most loved racing franchise in all history! The same company that single-handedly saved the racing genre on consoles when other companies couldn't put out a decent racer to save their mums life! That company that helped me get through nights of sheer frustration during finals! I couldn't help but feel a sense of unrelenting disappointment after hearing that Kaz had stated that he was going to try to develop a damage system that no one else had ever done before.Because the truth is, ITS ALL BEEN DONE BEFORE! Damage is damage people! I truly believe that there are only two ways to do it. The right way, and the wrong way. Or to put it more simply, the realistic way, and the poor-attempt-at-realism way. I guess the best comparison to anything else would be the CG faces in Avatar. People call that the uncanny valley in the CG world. Meaning that the closer you get to a realistic CG face, the less and less it looks real until you've passed the uncanny valley. THAT is when you get something like Avatar, where the audience believes that these characters are real, even if they are blue and 8 feet tall. Thats what it means to truly push and experiment with technology to achieve a goal.

35mph Ford Taurus Crash

Lambo only after repeated head-on wall collisions mostly over 35 mph

THAT is where GT5 falls short. Unfortunately I have yet to see a game developer really conquer that valley in terms of realistic damage in racing sims. 30 mph into a wall CAN put you out of a race! Thats reality! People need to get over it. Polyphony needs to stop fooling themselves into thinking people want arcade and sim-action in the same package. Your talking about two completely different types of people and game here! My brother for example, loves racing games and especially the GT series like I do. But he falls into the category of people who love to look at cars and drive them and not the category of people of love to BUILD cars and drive them. I feel confident in saying that this can be a pretty accurate description of the two main audiences Polyphony is trying to please with one game. I on the one hand am an extreme tech junkie. I love tinkering and modding. I am a huuuuge fan of sandbox style gaming! WHY? Because of the unpredictability of the game! The fact that you could play a game and get an infinitely changing experience depending on angles and trajectories is what drives me to play games! THIS is what the real world IS after all! NOTHING in the world ever happens the exact same way twice. Thats why damage is so complex to recreate realistically. Fortunately however, that is also why games that put damage systems at the top of their priority list often are the most rewarding games to play and are usually the most visually stunning! Look at Bad Company, GTA Series, Crysis and so many others. Of course this damage is not just in car games, but all damage systems are trying to do is mimic real-life physics in regards to the destructibility of a given material whether it be tire rubber or brick walls. The fact that our console's technology has been left behind by the PC' s so quickly just makes it that much more difficult to believe in the console's ability to bring that level of simulation to the masses. But this is what happens when you attempt to simplify the development of something as complex as the real world.

In the end, however difficult it may be to play a game that calls itself the "real driving simulator" without a truly amazing damage system in place, I will try to play with the same passion I did the previous franchise entries. But the fun always ends with the predictability of my car wall-riding another AI car in turn 5 at 98mph with no consequences, just because I want to finally beat the computer at following the same racing line it refuses to move from lap after never-ending lap.

Vince

You gotta remember that if GT5 featured damage, just as it appears in real life, 90% of the people playing GT5 would have a busted, non-functional car at turn #1...and that would turn away ALOT of casual gamers that are looking forward to playing the game.

PD made a wise decision to have the damage get gradually more intense as the game progresses. Hardcore GT fans can get to lvl 20 and then revisit all of the tracks that they had played earlier with more realistic damage, and race them again, and more casual gamers can improve their driving skills.

If GT5 had intense damage right when you turned the game on, people would crash...ruin their cars, get frustrated and put the game down and never turn it on again. Sure hardcore GT fans would love it....but the thing that makes a game a multi-million seller is appealing to as many fans as possible. The avid racers...and the newbies to the series. The more games they sell...the more money they will have to put into GT6! So, I say do what you have to to appeal to as many fans as possible PD. Even if that means starting the game off at a babies pace.

All games do this...Zelda, Fallout, NFS...etc. There are always tutorials and slow starts at the beginning of every game to "break the player in". Why should GT5 be any different? Think of it as a tutorial that slowly gains momentum as you move through the game.

Im 100% sure that by lvl 30 we will have doors coming unhinged, hoods flying open, bumpers swinging around and lots of dents and scratches. So take your time with the game...and enjoy it.

 

[Dan360]

The damage in GT5 looks dissapointing, compared to other racing games. It looks like you can only see visual damage on the bumpers, hood, etc. ,and not the car's mainframe. The mechanical damage looks interesting, maybe it can compensate the lack of visual damage.

 

[Firehuntah]

I think you're all forgetting that it's actually the first time in the series PD is including damage. It looks pretty good to me right now and it can only get better in future GT's. Also I'm sure we haven't even seen the full damage model yet, seeing as it gets more as you level.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Has anyone thought that damage, mechanical or otherwise could be specific and more present in certain events? Endurance racing, F1, NASCAR, rally and long (5+ races) championships maybe have more detailed damage based on the lengths.

Lets face it, 3 laps of Autumn Mini Ring won't cause much mech damage at all. 180 odd laps of the Nordschleife, different matter.

 

[ADTR]

There's too much forgiveness in their damage system.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Has anyone thought that damage, mechanical or otherwise could be specific and more present in certain events? Endurance racing, F1, NASCAR, rally and long (5+ races) championships maybe have more detailed damage based on the lengths.

Lets face it, 3 laps of Autumn Mini Ring won't cause much mech damage at all. 180 odd laps of the Nordschleife, different matter.

EDIT: Found the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmKyzQbYsQA&feature=player_embedded

There is a Nascar video posted where he turned around on the track and went head on into the existing cars at well over 100mph. That would instantly destroy and end any car in real life. It should not take multiple massive hits over and over again to start damaging the cars. One huge impact would destroy any car especially at high speed over 100mph into head on traffic that is doing well over 100mph. They clearly cut corners and bit off more than they could chew with the damage in this game.

Maybe they did it on purpose to make the game more forgiving. Just a guess. But from what I have seen, it takes a LOT to do damage to cars in GT5. Regardless, the damage is nothing like we saw in the video from E3 2009. False advertisement.

 

[RUI]

You gotta remember that if GT5 featured damage, just as it appears in real life, 90% of the people playing GT5 would have a busted, non-functional car at turn #1...and that would turn away ALOT of casual gamers that are looking forward to playing the game.

PD made a wise decision to have the damage get gradually more intense as the game progresses. Hardcore GT fans can get to lvl 20 and then revisit all of the tracks that they had played earlier with more realistic damage, and race them again, and more casual gamers can improve their driving skills.

If GT5 had intense damage right when you turned the game on, people would crash...ruin their cars, get frustrated and put the game down and never turn it on again. Sure hardcore GT fans would love it....but the thing that makes a game a multi-million seller is appealing to as many fans as possible. The avid racers...and the newbies to the series. The more games they sell...the more money they will have to put into GT6! So, I say do what you have to to appeal to as many fans as possible PD. Even if that means starting the game off at a babies pace.

All games do this...Zelda, Fallout, NFS...etc. There are always tutorials and slow starts at the beginning of every game to "break the player in". Why should GT5 be any different? Think of it as a tutorial that slowly gains momentum as you move through the game.

Im 100% sure that by lvl 30 we will have doors coming unhinged, hoods flying open, bumpers swinging around and lots of dents and scratches. So take your time with the game...and enjoy it.

QFT 👍

 

[Rob-F1-Fan]

has anyone else noticed.. on the YELLOW EVO pic , just above the bonnet air-intake , there's a straight line.. like its two different pictures

 

[MagpieRacer]

EDIT: Found the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmKyzQbYsQA&feature=player_embedded

There is a Nascar video posted where he turned around on the track and went head on into the existing cars at well over 100mph. That would instantly destroy and end any car in real life. It should take multiple massive hits over and over again to start damaging the cars. One huge impact would destroy any car especially at high speed over 100mph into head on traffic. They clearly cut corners and bit off more than they could chew with the damage in this game.

Maybe they did it on purpose to make the game more forgiving. Just a guess. But from what I have seen, it takes a LOT to do damage to cars in GT5.

However, was that not arcade mode? "could" be different elsewhere.

 

[k800yle]

Just a quick solution that may explain the level based damage model that seems like an odd addition to the gameplay mechanic. I wonder if PD added the level based system to prevent too many leeked pre release images getting onto the web. It makes sence that copies would be out in the wild once the retailers stated to receive stock and those who have a copy have only just started to open up the damage engine.

This rpg element could then be easily removed by a downloaded patch that will probably go live on release of the game allowing everyone to view the finished game at the same time.

Only an opinion and propably wrong but it is an interesting thought.

 

[DarthTurismo]

You gotta remember that if GT5 featured damage, just as it appears in real life, 90% of the people playing GT5 would have a busted, non-functional car at turn #1...and that would turn away ALOT of casual gamers that are looking forward to playing the game.

Yes agree with you 200%.... if you guys remember correctly... Kaz himself said there is a fine line between reality and player enjoyment. Hardcore gamers only make up a percentage... he himself was worried about getting the balance right... i'm pretty sure if he wanted to he could have programmed the cars to be complete write-offs once they hit a wall at 100mph.. but then he'd have to implement the 'rewind' feature for all the gamers that freak out about being out of the race after turn 1... it's about keeping the majority happy. It makes sense that damage would be incremental depending on skill level..... just my 2c worth

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

EDIT: Found the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmKyzQbYsQA&feature=player_embedded

There is a Nascar video posted where he turned around on the track and went head on into the existing cars at well over 100mph. That would instantly destroy and end any car in real life. It should not take multiple massive hits over and over again to start damaging the cars. One huge impact would destroy any car especially at high speed over 100mph into head on traffic that is doing well over 100mph. They clearly cut corners and bit off more than they could chew with the damage in this game.

Maybe they did it on purpose to make the game more forgiving. Just a guess. But from what I have seen, it takes a LOT to do damage to cars in GT5. Regardless, the damage is nothing like we saw in the video from E3 2009. False advertisement.

However, was that not arcade mode? "could" be different elsewhere.

GT5 comes out in 3 more days. If the damage was different, we would have seen a video by now. No one can find a video anywhere that shows damage like we saw in the E3 2009 video.

 

[k800yle]

Another damage related comment form me today is that car manufacturers wil not allow simulator display damage that may indicate that the passenger compartment is compromised in an accident. So for the cars other that the NASCAR/WRC cars we will only see bumper and hood deformation.

The only reason some other games get away with total carnage is that either:

A. The cars are fictional (ala Burnout)

or B. The cars display arcade style physics and do not mirror their real steel versions.

I'll crawl back into my hole now people.

 

[Devedander]

I have to say with the number of people getting early copies of GT5 and putting solid time into it, I can't believe if there was damage we wouldn't have gotten more mention of it outside one guy saying soo...

Not to mention if it is a level unlock thing it's just ridiculous as it makes no sense... that's not how it works in real life and if anything it steepens the learning curve as you go from easy races with no damage to hard races with damage...

One huge impact would destroy any car especially at high speed over 100mph into head on traffic that is doing well over 100mph.

Just a niggling point, 2 similar sized cars hitting head on at 100mph is equal damage to one car hitting a wall at 100mph.

 

[Peter]

Well, GT5 is no big shot racing sim, nor is it any destruction derby game. Damage isn't the most important part of the game, and it doesn't have to be any absolute destruction from a 35mph crash.

 

[Dravonic]

You gotta remember that if GT5 featured damage, just as it appears in real life, 90% of the people playing GT5 would have a busted, non-functional car at turn #1...and that would turn away ALOT of casual gamers that are looking forward to playing the game.

PD made a wise decision to have the damage get gradually more intense as the game progresses. Hardcore GT fans can get to lvl 20 and then revisit all of the tracks that they had played earlier with more realistic damage, and race them again, and more casual gamers can improve their driving skills.

If GT5 had intense damage right when you turned the game on, people would crash...ruin their cars, get frustrated and put the game down and never turn it on again. Sure hardcore GT fans would love it....but the thing that makes a game a multi-million seller is appealing to as many fans as possible. The avid racers...and the newbies to the series. The more games they sell...the more money they will have to put into GT6! So, I say do what you have to to appeal to as many fans as possible PD. Even if that means starting the game off at a babies pace.

All games do this...Zelda, Fallout, NFS...etc. There are always tutorials and slow starts at the beginning of every game to "break the player in". Why should GT5 be any different? Think of it as a tutorial that slowly gains momentum as you move through the game.

Im 100% sure that by lvl 30 we will have doors coming unhinged, hoods flying open, bumpers swinging around and lots of dents and scratches. So take your time with the game...and enjoy it.

How about giving the player the option to choose? Don't want any damage? Turn it off. Want some damage? Put it on some mild setting. Want the awesome damage PD and Sony keep mentioning? Well then sit down and cry because apparently GT5 won't have it.

This is freaking ridiculous. The latest commercial clearly mentions "realistic damage". Would you call what we saw realistic? That's considerably more arcade-like than many damage systems in arcade games! Instead of feeling outraged people try to defend it? Desperately trying to find an excuse to why it sucks? Come on.

I'm holding my final judgment until I see more info but the game better have some sort of hidden option for realistic damage that will only show up at some point like you mentioned. Otherwise PD failed to deliver when it comes to damage.

 

[homerjfong]

I have to say with the number of people getting early copies of GT5 and putting solid time into it, I can't believe if there was damage we wouldn't have gotten more mention of it outside one guy saying soo...

Not to mention if it is a level unlock thing it's just ridiculous as it makes no sense... that's not how it works in real life and if anything it steepens the learning curve as you go from easy races with no damage to hard races with damage...



Just a niggling point, 2 similar sized cars hitting head on at 100mph is equal damage to one car hitting a wall at 100mph.

redphoenix's post made a lot of sense to me assuming this level damage thing is true

 

[RedPhoenix]

How about giving the player the option to choose? Don't want any damage? Turn it off. Want some damage? Put it on some mild setting. Want the awesome damage PD and Sony keep mentioning? Well then sit down and cry because apparently GT5 won't have it.

This is freaking ridiculous. The latest commercial clearly mentions "realistic damage". Would you call what we saw realistic? That's considerably more arcade-like than many damage systems in arcade games! Instead of feeling outraged people try to defend it? Desperately trying to find an excuse to why it sucks? Come on.

I'm holding my final judgment until I see more info but the game better have some sort of hidden option for realistic damage that will only show up at some point like you mentioned. Otherwise PD failed to deliver when it comes to damage.

Having the option to choose would be good I guess, but I think that it would cause an issue when playing online. PD would have to implement separate online lobbies for "Races with Damage enabled" and "Race without damage enabled"...

A damage enabled car wouldnt be able to race against a non-damagable car for the simple fact that the non-damagable one would have the upper hand. So...I think it would segregate the online community and that is not a good idea...since online communities are about all players being able to play together in the same place, not matter what playing style.

I think the gradual damage system works best because of its simplicity. No player has gotten to lvl 30 or 40 yet...so, there will be a greater sense of damage...no doubt. Best thing is, once you get to that level...you can always go back and replay all the great races you have enjoyed thus far....your going to replay those races anyway to get different prize cars anyway!

On the other hand, I can see why a lot of people are upset that we dont have full damage from the start....maybe it will be updated in a patch, maybe it wont....but im just glad we got any damage at all!

GT5 has exceeded my expectations and is leaps and bounds beyond anything else we have seen from a prior GT game.

Cmon people, we got all these new things and we are complaining about them. We got Realistic Weather, Dynamic Weather, Day-Night transitions, Damage (Possibly greater damage unlocked on 24th), Track Editor, Karts, Online!!!

All of these great new additions to the GT franchise...but people are complaining. It just blows me away how ungrateful people are. PD could have just released GT5 with 1000 cars and nothing else new...and we all still would have bought it!...so, I for one am grateful of what they have given us. Games not even out yet but people complain. wow.

Greater damage can be unlocked on the 24th the same way Online will be unlocked on the 24th. Patience pays guys. Get the game, level up and then make a decision.

 

[AC13_JohnG]

AMEN! The bitching has almost reached a critical mass. I can't wait for this game to come out and this forum to die for a while.

 

[Jikkle]

For me personally I think mechanical damage is far more important than physical damage and I would be more than happy if the visual damage was just more or less a representation of what it looks like if I slammed into someone going 100mph+ rather than a 100% accurate modeling of what it would look like.

For me it all comes down to immersion and GT does an excellent job of making you feel immersed and feel like you're actually driving the car when you're using a force feedback steering wheel and using the cockpit view. But the damage or should I say lack of damage is something that completely jars you from that immersion because it just feels silly to bounce off a car going 100+ mph and basically have no penalty in terms of mechanical failure or even a visual cue that you crashed into something.

So I don't think the people that are looking for damage are looking to turn GT into Burnout or Destruction Derby nor are they planning on just trying to crash into things for kicks but they want to the GT series to be as immersive as it reasonably can be and lacking damage is a huge omission from that.

I think the best solution would've been to have had it off by default and have it gradually unlock as it seems like this is currently the case but give people the option to turn it on if they want to early. That way new people can be gradually eased into the game but advanced users who don't need hand holding can have the option to go full steam ahead.

 

[tazbo28]

You gotta remember that if GT5 featured damage, just as it appears in real life, 90% of the people playing GT5 would have a busted, non-functional car at turn #1...and that would turn away ALOT of casual gamers that are looking forward to playing the game.

PD made a wise decision to have the damage get gradually more intense as the game progresses. Hardcore GT fans can get to lvl 20 and then revisit all of the tracks that they had played earlier with more realistic damage, and race them again, and more casual gamers can improve their driving skills.

If GT5 had intense damage right when you turned the game on, people would crash...ruin their cars, get frustrated and put the game down and never turn it on again. Sure hardcore GT fans would love it....but the thing that makes a game a multi-million seller is appealing to as many fans as possible. The avid racers...and the newbies to the series. The more games they sell...the more money they will have to put into GT6! So, I say do what you have to to appeal to as many fans as possible PD. Even if that means starting the game off at a babies pace.

All games do this...Zelda, Fallout, NFS...etc. There are always tutorials and slow starts at the beginning of every game to "break the player in". Why should GT5 be any different? Think of it as a tutorial that slowly gains momentum as you move through the game.

Im 100% sure that by lvl 30 we will have doors coming unhinged, hoods flying open, bumpers swinging around and lots of dents and scratches. So take your time with the game...and enjoy it.

Ok I understand fully where you are coming from. I also feel that there is absolutely NO evidence that the damage gets "worse" as levels progress. the pictures i saw in the demos, where supposedly damage was on at full, were even un-interesting enough. Besides, that would contradict the entire reason for having damage in the first place. Damage is there as a consequence to bad driving. if you get better in the game then you wouldnt crash, and then the damage would never get seen anyhow! whats the effing point of that?

i have never once picked up a game and said, " man this game is just too hard i dont want to play it anymore." and threw away 60 bucks just because i crashed my car. there is a restart race option for that! and difficulty settings also to "baby your weak racing skills along...."

WHat you also dont understand is that i am suggesting that there are two entirely different types of people that PD is trying to satisfy. and obviously you cannot do that with one game trying to be two! The best thing would be to either split the game into an arcade racer, and a sim racer or just have a REAL sim racer. if you get good at arcade racing with NO damage like lots of fools on here wish, then you could "graduate" so-to-speak to a much more realistic, FULLy DAMAGABLE car system in the sim racer. thats all.

But saying that "damage doesnt matter to me so therefore nobody should care" is simply ignorant. and also saying that people would just quit after one freaking race and a 40 mph radiator destroying crash is plain ridiculous. you obviously dont want a REAL driving simulator, you want an arcade racer disguised as one and i wont stand for that in a game that has spent millions and the past 5 years in development claiming to be the end-all sim racer! I WANT MY FULLY DESTRUCTABLE VEHICLE!!!

 

[Devedander]

redphoenix's post made a lot of sense to me assuming this level damage thing is true

It sounds good when you first read it, but if you think about it, it actually has a ton of holes in it...

There are plenty of other games with damage that manage to not make it impossible to beat the first race with industry standard options like "damage level" and "difficulty level". Why not make visual damage always there (we know EVERYONE likes the eye candy) but turn on mechanical damage only at later races? Even more to the point, the lower class slower races provide the BEST opportunity to learn damage as you are far less likely to have a race ending crash in a civic than you are in a Viper. Which makes more sense to you:

Start with damage always one and let people learn it like they learn all the other challenges of GT - with easy races and progressing

or

Turn damage off so that those who can handle it miss out on it for hours or days and those who were going to have trouble with it get trained to bumper car their way through the first 20 levels only to suddenly hit a brick wall of challenging races AND damage at the same time?

What redphoenix has done is made up the best sound reasons possible for what has happened.

What he has said is POSSIBLE but when you give it the laugh test most of it just doesn't hold up... it's bunch of straw men.. he has created problems to solve by doing damage this way only so he can justify it happening the way this theory pans out... like online races would have to be seperated between damage and no damage... yes... lots of games have taken care of that already... it's not a problem thus doens't need a solution. It's only a problem when its' created so the explaination at hand can be rationlized.

That doesn't take into account that the game has been in peoples hands for near a week now and so far we have 1 person on an Italian forum saying damge kicks in at level 20.

At best it's true and a horribly questionable decision and at worst damage is virtually non existant...

AMEN! The bitching has almost reached a critical mass. I can't wait for this game to come out and this forum to die for a while.

I think you may be in for a nasty surprise...

 

[Red_9]

So far we have seen ZERO mechanical damage. The closest I've seen to mechanical damage is when the tires smoke after a few crashes.

The fact of the matter is that we're being lied to, whether for better or for worse. PD promised realistic damage with proper mechanical damage. So far we have seen neither. In all of the videos I have seen, not one of the crashes has caused the driving physics of the vehicle to alter in any way. The NASCAR vids show the driver going head on with other cars, yet he turns around and the vehicle takes off as if it were new.

Even in Gamespot's Now Playing, the reviewer noted than even in PREMIUM vehicles, he has yet to notice any real damage at all.

Is PD blowing smoke up our asses for the last six months, or is there more to this? We've SEEN far better damage than this, yet in the retail version it is non existant.

Lucky for us, the rest of the game is so well-made, with the exception of the standard/premium fiasco...and maybe bland tracks. But that's it.

 

[tazbo28]

The main reason that people are dissappointed is that Kaz himself said that damage would be like nothing ever done before! he stated that you will be able to see cars crash into a bunch of pieces. I read somewhere in an interview that the damage level would be down to the lugnuts!!! WWWWWTTTTTFFFFFFF!!!!! WHERE IS IT!!! I dont see it. And for most gamers who are casual racers, i dont think people have the patience to sit through 5 million hours of play just to get to level one thousand to unlock something that is supposed to on from the beginning! that is plain stupidity im sorry.

Delays delays delays, and I just about have lost hope that this game would be what they made it out to be. damage to cars is essential. The GT series as far as I know is the only "racing sim" I have eeeever played that has never done proper damage and now they try, but its just too little too late.

On a side note, people saying we are just complaining! well, there are so many things to complain about! DAMAGE!!! also, the track editor, is just that an EDITOR!!! NOT A track CREATOR! there is a huge difference. karting also suffers from hilarious physics, the tire screeches have the same mundain drone that they always had, cars have no interiors, and so on....

PD HAVE bit off more than they can chew. I would rather have the most advance physics engine in the world with cars of my choice as free DLC than to have 200 or so nice cars and 800 crappy ones, half-assed game options, and NO REALISTIC DAMAGE!!!!

PD have really effed the pooch. total failure.