The definitive GT5 transmission tuning guide.

[grenadeshark]

Having tested your civic tune, I came up with these values

5895.198761 2nd gear new rpm
6907.65391 3rd
7467.391304 4th
7819.868996 5th
7979.664014 6th

I would have to say I don't agree with your gear spacing at all. 1st gear is unusable. It's just a burnout gear. Even with race tires, you are putting way too much tq output to the wheels.

I am going to put down some times, then redo your gear set based on what I think would be nice to see how they compare.

 

[AssassinTuner]

The issue with ypur shift point estimation is its an estimation and most probably off. Each gear actually requires a different optimum shift point ( I also have a shift point calculator.) As you said it is based of power in each gear at engine speed. To calculate it any other way is not something I've seen, I ask how?

 

[AssassinTuner]

Having tested your civic tune, I came up with these values

5895.198761 2nd gear new rpm
6907.65391 3rd
7467.391304 4th
7819.868996 5th
7979.664014 6th

I would have to say I don't agree with your gear spacing at all. 1st gear is unusable. It's just a burnout gear. Even with race tires, you are putting way too much tq output to the wheels.

I am going to put down some times, then redo your gear set based on what I think would be nice to see how they compare.

Who daid to test the Civic? Dodnt I tell you the M3 04.....

TheM3 04 is the ONLY car in my garage that has been tuned by thr calculator.

Either way the CTR is fine as is but will benifit greatly when I te tune tge gears (as it says is pending in the garage)

 

[grenadeshark]

Who daid to test the Civic? Dodnt I tell you the M3 04.....

I dont have that car... I mentioned that before.

 

[grenadeshark]

The issue with ypur shift point estimation is its an estimation and most probably off. Each gear actually requires a different optimum shift point ( I also have a shift point calculator.) As you said it is based of power in each gear at engine speed. To calculate it any other way is not something I've seen, I ask how?

I agree with you. Show me a way to accurately turn the in game graphs into real world numbers. I've tried measuring, I have tried lots of things. The in game graphs are plain inaccurate.

 

[AssassinTuner]

I dont have that car... I mentioned that before.

So, that won't. Change the CTR to be relevant

M3 04 is the only car using the calculations.

 

[grenadeshark]

So, that won't. Change the CTR to be relevant

M3 04 is the only car using the calculations.

Please explain to me how you "Calculate" shift points using the in game data. I can show you how I estimate shift points based on what I see on the graphs. Calculating requires numbers.

I have a feeling you are guesstimating just as much as I am

 

[AssassinTuner]

I agree with you. Show me a way to accurately turn the in game graphs into real world numbers. I've tried measuring, I have tried lots of things. The in game graphs are plain inaccurate.

With calculating resistance and rolling radius I then do a manual dyno pull in each gear getting my exact power In each gear for each rpm. Theb calculating the new rpm after a shift I compare.

 

[CSLACR]

5895.198761 2nd gear new rpm
6907.65391 3rd
7467.391304 4th
7819.868996 5th
7979.664014 6th

Are these supposed to be shift points?

 

[AssassinTuner]

I find the in game graph useless

 

[CSLACR]

I find the in game graph useless

I always use the in-game graph.
Shift points will always change depending or individual gear length, but I can pretty much tell you where to shift any car in GT5 with one quick look at the powerband.
And I've tested it extensively, the only difficult cars are the ones that peak well before max rpm, such as Impreza's and Skyline's.

 

[grenadeshark]

With calculating resistance and rolling radius I then do a manual dyno pull in each gear getting my exact power In each gear for each rpm. Theb calculating the new rpm after a shift I compare.

Sounds interesting. How does the test work? I could definitely use that as it would make the calculations exact as you suggested.

I have used the in game data logger, but haven't found a way to make any use of it. Is that what you are using?

 

[grenadeshark]

Are these supposed to be shift points?

No, those were the new RPMs in the next forward gear after the shift with his settings on the car.

 

[grenadeshark]

I find the in game graph useless

They are.

With calculating resistance and rolling radius I then do a manual dyno pull in each gear getting my exact power In each gear for each rpm. Theb calculating the new rpm after a shift I compare.

Please do explain how you datalog this

On another note, I managed only to get .2 out of your car over a period of about 50 seconds on my test track. Your gear tuning was decent enough, especially the high end gears. In fact, I used the exact same 6th gear ratio as you did for the most part. But, our 1-3rds were extremely different.

My first is quite a bit longer, but still heats the tires from a dead stop. My 2nd is quite a bit longer as I use that as my slow corner gear. My 3rd was shorter then yours. My 4th-5th were shorter and my 6th was the same.

On another note, the civic is reasonably easy to tune as it peaks at its redline. The cars I tend to get the most out of are cars that peak early and have a substantial drop off in power. Those are the ones where gear tuning really helps.

 

[AssassinTuner]

Are these supposed to be shift points?

No they are the rpm you fall to after shifting. At the time I used varying spacing, worked alright, but not optimum as the M3 04s gears are done.

 

[grenadeshark]

Share your m3 04 and add me to your friends. I can test it that way. I won't change anything outside of the gears, so you can always change it back.

Btw, I tune for offline mode. My tunes change a bit when you go online.

 

[AssassinTuner]

I always use the in-game graph.
Shift points will always change depending or individual gear length, but I can pretty much tell you where to shift any car in GT5 with one quick look at the powerband.
And I've tested it extensively, the only difficult cars are the ones that peak well before max rpm, such as Impreza's and Skyline's.

I do the same and don't need to even look at them, the info provided is enough.

I've come to the conclusion that calculating the exact shift points only gives negligible gains. It gets better with those that peak real early but again do-able without the in game graphs, but still not completly accurott or specific to any gear.

Its only precise when properly caulating it though, your graph gestimation is most probably off.

 

[grenadeshark]

I do the same and don't need to even look at them, the info provided is enough.

I've come to the conclusion that calculating the exact shift points only gives negligible gains. It gets better with those that peak real early but again do-able without the in game graphs, but still not completly accurott or specific to any gear.

Its only precise when properly caulating it though, your graph gestimation is most probably off.

I agree. Please explain how you do these dyno pulls... I've asked nicely like 3 times! Pretty please?

 

[CSLACR]

Well that's the exact same thing I do... So how are you "calculating yours" 💡

The ghost never lies.
I usually don't even bother to put them side-by-side or anything, just run laps and see how different shift points work out.
No calculation besides before I go out, I guesstimate where the optimal rpms are, be it 5000-8000, or 7500-9200, I figure out from the graph about where I want to be, and then see what does/doesn't make a difference on the track.

Example: Stock '04 M3, shift point is @ rev limiter until 5th, I always shift into 5th earlier because 5th is a very quick gear on this stock M3.

The goal in gearing/shifting is to have the exact same amount of hp in the gear you shift from to the gear you shift to.

Example: (not actual figures but probably ballpark close)
M3 - Peak 340@7900 - 280hp at 8400 and 5800 - I know if my next gear only drops me to 6400 rpm, (@8400rpm) I need to shift sooner than 8400 rpm, because if I don't I'll then have more power in the next gear than I did before I shifted.
So between the original guesstimate I make, followed by visual inspection on the speedo, followed by racing a ghost, I end up with perfect shift points.👍

Of course one could skip two of these steps, but I find my way quicker and easier.

 

[grenadeshark]

The ghost never lies.
I usually don't even bother to put them side-by-side or anything, just run laps and see how different shift points work out.
No calculation besides before I go out, I guesstimate where the optimal rpms are, be it 5000-8000, or 7500-9200, I figure out from the graph about where I want to be, and then see what does/doesn't make a difference on the track.

Example: Stock '04 M3, shift point is @ rev limiter until 5th, I always shift into 5th earlier because 5th is a very quick gear on this stock M3.

The goal in gearing/shifting is to have the exact same amount of hp in the gear you shift from to the gear you shift to.

Example: (not actual figures but probably ballpark close)
M3 - Peak 340@7900 - 280hp at 8400 and 5800 - I know if my next gear only drops me to 6400 rpm, (@8400rpm) I need to shift sooner than 8400 rpm, because I'll then have more power in the next gear than I did before I shifted.
So between the original guesstimate I make, followed by visual inspection on the speedo, followed by racing a ghost, I end up with perfect shift points.👍

Of course one could skip two of these steps, but I find my way quicker and easier.

I didn't realize I was quoting you. I meant to ask assassin that question. He seems to have a way of actually measuring. This is what I want to know.

The cool thing about gearing is you can change the shift points by messing with the gearing. Make your 1st and 2nd gear super short and you can run it to redline regardless of the power graph.

 

[AssassinTuner]

Share your m3 04 and add me to your friends. I can test it that way. I won't change anything outside of the gears, so you can always change it back.

Btw, I tune for offline mode. My tunes change a bit when you go online.

JB PS3 meas no PSN.

I'm sure somebody can put one together for you.

 

[grenadeshark]

JB PS3 meas no PSN.

I'm sure somebody can put one together for you.

I agree. Please explain how you do these dyno pulls... I've asked nicely like 3 times! Pretty please?

 

[CSLACR]

I can sometime tonight.
Grenadeshark, send GTP_CSL a FR, and I'll get one up sometime tonight for you.

FYI - changing tuning settings on borrowed cars doesn't change them once you give it back. All settings go back to what the owner had.

 

[grenadeshark]

I can sometime tonight.
Grenadeshark, send GTP_CSL a FR, and I'll get one up sometime tonight for you.

FYI - changing tuning settings on borrowed cars doesn't change them once you give it back. All settings go back to what the owner had.

Thanks.

I just found a m3 csl 03? Is that the same as the 04?

 

[CSLACR]

I agree. Please explain how you do these dyno pulls... I've asked nicely like 3 times! Pretty please?

Probably in the grass against a wall. Grip set to "real".

I just found a m3 csl 03? Is that the same as the 04?

Not at all. I like the M3. I LOVE the CSL.

 

[grenadeshark]

Probably in the grass against a wall. Grip set to "real".

Well, I've noticed that he has put off our guesstimating which is quite accurate in the long run.

Your methods work well for any given gear set. You can obviously tell where the shift point is based off the graph and checking your pull in one gear versus another at different shift points.

I have a very flat test track that requires no traction to turn that I test on a lot. Allows me to test my shift points to see if it's all in my head, or my theories are true.

I have a spreadsheet the calculates TQ values across a given set of gears given the RPM and HP figures. Problem is, outside of the Peak HP and TQ figures, every other value I enter is guestimation.

 

[AssassinTuner]

I agree. Please explain how you do these dyno pulls... I've asked nicely like 3 times! Pretty please?

Sorry

You need to have a rolling radius & resistance calculation.

Then while you drive a friend notes the speed per 250 rpm increments, per gear.

Then using all this data you calculate whp per 250rpm increments and plug it in a graph.

Then using a rpm drop calculation you compare power in the new gear vs power when leaving the old gear.

The first time it took a while to put together, now it takes about 10min to do the pulls and input the data.

 

[CSLACR]

Well, I've noticed that he has put off our guesstimating which is quite accurate in the long run.

Your methods work well for any given gear set. You can obviously tell where the shift point is based off the graph and checking your pull in one gear versus another at different shift points.

I have a very flat test track that requires no traction to turn that I test on a lot. Allows me to test my shift points to see if it's all in my head, or my theories are true.

I just hotlap whatever tracks being used for the tune, it gives insight on gearing for specific corners.
In other words a quicker fourth in an example might be faster in general, but on the current track it means an extra shift right before 3 turns, and not being able to hold proper rpm's through a long high-speed sweeper, which means I'll make fourth longer for those corners because it gives me an overall gain in time around the track.

 

[grenadeshark]

Sorry

You need to have a rolling radius & resistance calculation.

Then while you drive a friend notes the speed per 250 rpm increments, per gear.

Then using all this data you calculate whp per 250rpm increments and plug it in a graph.

Then using a rpm drop calculation you compare power in the new gear vs power when leaving the old gear.

The first time it took a while to put together, now it takes about 10min to do the pulls and input the data.

Seems like there is a lot of room for error there as well. You mind posting up a graph of a power curve you have calculated from a car we can look at? I have my own graphs that I create and I want to see how yours compares.

Then using a rpm drop calculation you compare power in the new gear vs power when leaving the old gear.

My spreadsheet does just this. But, my input values may not be as accurate as yours.

 

[AssassinTuner]

Seems like there is a lot of room for error there as well. You mind posting up a graph of a power curve you have calculated from a car we can look at? I have my own graphs that I create and I want to see how yours compares.

My spreadsheet does just this. But, my input values may not be as accurate as yours.

Its pretty spot on. There is a margin of error as it only desplays mph and no fraction, however as you enter the data you notice a pattern of less or more mph between incraments.