The dominant car in GT5

[McLaren]

As for the 'dominant' cars for online play, i reckon we will be seeing a lot of Fxxs (If it makes it into the game that is).

That is of course, if it's easy to drive which it shouldn't be.

As for me, the flagship manufacturer will be the same one that caught my attention in GT1, Dodge. Nothing beats a Viper in blue in white stripes. I had over 20 Vipers in GT4, with the promises of better tuning and online play, I may just have 50 ACR's alone in GT5.

Not criticizing you, but this is why a Design & Tune saver would be a good deal to help keep your garage tidy & clear for more cars. Yes, Forza has it, but it does wonders for those who have 10 different tunes & 12 liveries just for 1 car.

 

[The_Hate_U_Gave]

The dominant cars in the game, excluding race cars, should share these characteristics for the Mid to high PP range.

Turbocharged or a high displacement engine
Low weight
4WD or MR drive train.

There will be a few exceptions like the heavy GTR

 

[Paulie]

If it is like GT4, it will be a C1 Corvette, but I expect the game to be more refined.

 

[TBR 427]

Tuned Clio, anyone?

lol, going into an online race, Expert 700pp
everyone's in a blue Clio
FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Actually, come to think of it, there weren't exactly dominant cars in GT4 all that much. Sure some cars like the Zonda and Z06 and Viper were always near the top, but on a lot of tracks they wouldn't win because of other cars that were much better suited to them. Obviously a Viper wasn't ever going to do well in the special conditions races, in which case you wanted something like a WRX. And on tracks like El Capitan I found the Monaro far more stable (and a fraction faster) than the Z06, and right behind the Holden I had a very good Spyker C8 (though it was the only track that car was good at IMO). Skylines, for their numbers in the game, didn't really perform all that well on a lot of occasions.

 

[TrievelA7X]

The dominant cars in the game, excluding race cars, should share these characteristics for the Mid to high PP range.

Turbocharged or a high displacement engine
Low weight
4WD or MR drive train.

There will be a few exceptions like the heavy GTR

I strongly disagree.
FR cars have always been successful in racing, whether racing against MR, RR, or 4WD.
Cars like Vipers and Corvettes sit at 50/50 (Viper) or damned close to it, when a driver is sitting in the car.
4WD would be an advantage, but any advantage a car has in a racing series, either gets taken away, or the car is given a handicap.
FYI: Most American FR cars wear the front tires out as fast or faster than the rear, so traction can't be to big of an issue.

 

[Neal]

I think he's referring to the Zonda F roadster. But thats mid engined aswell

I should have worked out he meant the Zonda, doh! Not obvious when it's the wrong layout!

PP is required definetly, but i think they need to re-vamp the way they calculate it. But even so, there will always be one or two cars that are fastest in their class by quite a bit, because the non-power/weight advantages can't be measured accurately.

I can say in the super car classes, cars like the Aston Martin DBS are going to get absolutely slaughtered because they're simply too heavy and the centre of gravity is too high to compete. The Lotus Elise and Renault Clio will most likely dominate their classes as usual.

The GTR will likely dominate its class for the first week or so until people find/can afford better cars. The same way it did in the early days of prologue, GTRs everywhere!

Assuming the GT5P sliding scale for power and weight tuning won't be the same in GT5 I wonder how the PP system will work? e.g. If you have tuned your car past the max PP to enter a race how easy is it going to be to detune it and how close will you be able get it to the max PP for that event??

 

[rkk01]

Assuming the GT5P sliding scale for power and weight tuning won't be the same in GT5 I wonder how the PP system will work? e.g. If you have tuned your car past the max PP to enter a race how easy is it going to be to detune it and how close will you be able get it to the max PP for that event??

Probably should post this on the Prologue board, but.... Is there a straight linear ratio between the Power and Weight settings in GT5P???

I initially supposed that there was - ie max power : max weight, 50% power : 50% weight, min popwer : min weight all resulting in the same power to weight ratio and PP setting... However, as sought to improve my times on the Suzuka and Fuji S level races I got better times from the amuse S2000 by increasing the power, even though I had to increase weight to keep within the PP limit?????

 

[Neal]

Probably should post this on the Prologue board, but.... Is there a straight linear ratio between the Power and Weight settings in GT5P???

I initially supposed that there was - ie max power : max weight, 50% power : 50% weight, min power : min weight all resulting in the same power to weight ratio and PP setting... However, as sought to improve my times on the Suzuka and Fuji S level races I got better times from the amuse S2000 by increasing the power, even though I had to increase weight to keep within the PP limit?????

Not really. I'm discussing what GT5's tuning system might be like and just referring to GT5P's system, perhaps it should be in a GT5 tuning thread but it makes more sense to continue the discussion here in relation to Seismica's post.

The point I was trying to make is you can adjust the power and weight of cars (independently) in GT5P in small increments using a slide bar, in previous GT games you can only adjust the power and weight in larger steps by various turbo or NA tuning stages or weight reduction stages. This would make it difficult to tune cars PP to be as close to the max for an event as possible.

It could also cause problems if you can't undo a weight reduction stage to get the right balance between power and weight for a given PP. As you have said it can be better to have a heavier car with more power for a track like Fuji.

Any thought’s on how PD will implement the PP system in GT5?

 

[arvin charles]

Not really. I'm discussing what GT5's tuning system might be like and just referring to GT5P's system, perhaps it should be in a GT5 tuning thread but it makes more sense to continue the discussion here in relation to Seismica's post.

The point I was trying to make is you can adjust the power and weight of cars (independently) in GT5P in small increments using a slide bar, in previous GT games you can only adjust the power and weight in larger steps by various turbo or NA tuning stages or weight reduction stages. This would make it difficult to tune cars PP to be as close to the max for an event as possible.

It could also cause problems if you can't undo a weight reduction stage to get the right balance between power and weight for a given PP. As you have said it can be better to have a heavier car with more power for a track like Fuji.

Any thought’s on how PD will implement the PP system in GT5?

If your car is too light, you should be able to add ballast. That would be a cool feature to have, especially if you can place it where it would be beneficial for the CoG.

 

[7NecroN7]

Probably the car i will use for most of the offline game will be the Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SuperVeloce. I think the Zonda F or any race car would be good for online. That Lexus LFA was also very impressive.

Btw the movie in which you(Micdog49) saw the Diablo is "Exit Wounds", the guy buying it is rapper DMX. My advice: see this scene in high quality, this video doesn't do justice do the Diablo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftj2CrtPQZk

 

[Neal]

If your car is too light, you should be able to add ballast. That would be a cool feature to have, especially if you can place it where it would be beneficial for the CoG.

Good idea, that would certainly solve the problem and is a realistic method used in racing.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

Dominant production cars by country in Gran Turismo 5 (really quick list, feel free to fix it!)

United States: Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 or Dodge Viper ACR

Italy: Ferrari Enzo or Lamborghini Murcielago LP670-4 Super Veloce.

Great Britain: McLaren F1 or Ariel Atom

Germany: McLaren Mercedes SLR or Gumpert Apollo

Japan: Nissan GT-R Spec V or Lexus LFA

And I have to go to class now, but someone feel free to add more countries and cars!

 

[Exorcet]

Any thought’s on how PD will implement the PP system in GT5?

Well, first off, GT needs all tunes to be removable.

Secondly, the GT5P slider bar wasn't that bad. The weight adjustment would be a set of ballasts of different weight while power would be handled via the ECU and variable diameter restrictors.

 

[Neal]

Well, first off, GT needs all tunes to be removable.

Secondly, the GT5P slider bar wasn't that bad. The weight adjustment would be a set of ballasts of different weight while power would be handled via the ECU and variable diameter restrictors.

The slide bars are effective for the basic tuning requirements in GT5P but it's always been the case in full GT games that you save up and pay for an engine upgrade rather than just select the power in the settings and some of them weren't reversible (e.g. port polish, engine balancing, increased displacement). I remember having to buy a new Pagani Zonda for the unmodified supercar race in GT4!

I can't see PD removing the fun of tuning the nuts out of cars and replacing it with a slide bar setting. The use of ballast weights, as Arvin Charles suggested, would be a great addition although I might be a bit reluctant to add weight after I'd spent a fortune on weight reduction!

 

[arvin charles]

I can't see PD removing the fun of tuning the nuts out of cars and replacing it with a slide bar setting. The use of ballast weights, as Arvin Charles suggested, would be a great addition although I might be a bit reluctant to add weight after I'd spent a fortune on weight reduction!

You do know that most, if not all, race teams prefer an underweight car & then add ballast to meet minimum weight requirements...Or in GT5's case a certain PP.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weight reduction in GT4 was not reversible, right?

 

[Exorcet]

The slide bars are effective for the basic tuning requirements in GT5P but it's always been the case in full GT games that you save up and pay for an engine upgrade rather than just select the power in the settings and some of them weren't reversible (e.g. port polish, engine balancing, increased displacement). I remember having to buy a new Pagani Zonda for the unmodified supercar race in GT4!

I can't see PD removing the fun of tuning the nuts out of cars and replacing it with a slide bar setting. The use of ballast weights, as Arvin Charles suggested, would be a great addition although I might be a bit reluctant to add weight after I'd spent a fortune on weight reduction!

No, I'm saying they could coexist. GT4 had a ballast, it was essentially the same as the GT5P quick tune for weight. You selected the weight of the ballast, and then you selected where it would go.

In GT5, the same could be done with engines. Imagine going for an 800 PP race online, but your car tuned to 660 hp sits at 802 PP. If GT5 had an adjustable restrictor setting, you would just pick a diameter and lower your power until you had 800 PP.

0 mm |__________________________V_______| 35 mm

0 hp |___________________________V_______| 660 hp

(Isn't that the best diagram ever?)





A bit more on topic, I agree that 4WD might be a dominant force in GT5 online given the feedback on the GT5TT demo physics. If people didn't like a car as docile as the 370Z, they'll probably like their cars with plenty of understeer. Though if GT5 has drivetrain swaps, we could just see everything go AWD and then there would be no dominant car lol.

 

[Seismica]

A bit more on topic, I agree that 4WD might be a dominant force in GT5 online given the feedback on the GT5TT demo physics. If people didn't like a car as docile as the 370Z, they'll probably like their cars with plenty of understeer. Though if GT5 has drivetrain swaps, we could just see everything go AWD and then there would be no dominant car lol.

Precisely. The Nissan GTR and Audi R8 are probably the two easiest cars to drive in their class, and neither is the fastest. But that is what we will see in GT5, 4WD cars dominating because they are so easy to drive consistently. They probably won't top the lap boards like they do in Forza 3, but we will be seeing a lot of them.

 

[Rennsport]

Considering the cars from Zuffenhausen are out, you'll find me on the Ring in a RUF CTR Yellowbird

 

[The_Hate_U_Gave]

I strongly disagree.
FR cars have always been successful in racing, whether racing against MR, RR, or 4WD.
Cars like Vipers and Corvettes sit at 50/50 (Viper) or damned close to it, when a driver is sitting in the car.
4WD would be an advantage, but any advantage a car has in a racing series, either gets taken away, or the car is given a handicap.
FYI: Most American FR cars wear the front tires out as fast or faster than the rear, so traction can't be to big of an issue.

Yes the vette's and vipers would be a couple of the exceptions i referred to. but they do have big displacement and are relatively light........Anyway FR is always at a disadvantage to MR. And it's not the tire ware that is the only issue. It's traction on corner exits and lift oversteer plus some other minor advantages like braking.

If you have two cars equal in power, weight, tires, suspension etc. The MR car will be faster in capable hands. Take a look at GT racing past and present. A winning/dominate FR car is the exception not the norm, sure the corvette and viper GT1 cars were good but there competition from Ferrari was the 550, an FR itself. Look at what Ford did with the GT40 and what they are doing now with the GT. The MC12 was dominating the GT1 Vette's and DB9's for many years because of the advantages MR layout possesses.

MR>RR>FR this is the order you want for GT racing.

 

[CoolColJ]

it just depends on how complex the physics system in GT5 is, it's more than just front to weight distribution, drive train and power etc. What about how tall the car is, and where all the weight is located height wise, and tyre wear and heat off course.

As shown, you have the LFA, a FR car, out perform a 4WD mid engined car in the Gallardo, in the wet by 3 secs a lap in real life! That's a huge amount. The LFA was engineered to be as light as possible and handle as well as possible, and it shows

 

[Neal]

You do know that most, if not all, race teams prefer an underweight car & then add ballast to meet minimum weight requirements...Or in GT5's case a certain PP.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weight reduction in GT4 was not reversible, right?

Of course, that's why I replied to your suggestion on ballast with "Good idea, that would certainly solve the problem and is a realistic method used in racing". Even if you did need to add weight it would still be a shame after paying for weight reduction tuning.

No, I'm saying they could coexist. GT4 had a ballast, it was essentially the same as the GT5P quick tune for weight. You selected the weight of the ballast, and then you selected where it would go.

In GT5, the same could be done with engines. Imagine going for an 800 PP race online, but your car tuned to 660 hp sits at 802 PP. If GT5 had an adjustable restrictor setting, you would just pick a diameter and lower your power until you had 800 PP.

I hadn't thought about them coexisting so I agree that could work. It's been a while since I played GT4 and had forgotten it had ballast . I see what you mean now with the ECU and air restrictors to accurately reduce the hp after you've tuned it up, again this would work to meet a certain PP...good thing PD didn't come to me to brain storm this!

Yes, ingenious diagrams!


Back on topic...cars with neutral handling will likely be the most dominant as you won't fighting under or over steer. The design concept of the McLaren MP4-12C is heavily influenced by mass centralisation so that the occupants and heavy components are located as close to the centre of the car as possible. Lotus always perform well but the standard Evora is a bit underpowered so unless they included any unannounced models in GT5 it may not be quick enough.

 

[Seismica]

it just depends on how complex the physics system in GT5 is, it's more than just front to weight distribution, drive train and power etc. What about how tall the car is, and where all the weight is located height wise, and tyre wear and heat off course.

As shown, you have the LFA, a FR car, out perform a 4WD mid engined car in the Gallardo, in the wet by 3 secs a lap in real life! That's a huge amount. The LFA was engineered to be as light as possible and handle as well as possible, and it shows

...In the hands of a very capable driver such as the Stig/Schumi yes.

In the hands of your average GT player... I have my doubts.

 

[Dan_]

...In the hands of a very capable driver such as the Stig/Schumi yes.

In the hands of your average GT player... I have my doubts.

I agree 👍, but to me most useable car is the GTR, it is reasonably fast in a straight line and it corners faster than electricity, it's AWD and it has a predictable behaviour. Every newbie would prefer to use them to race online than a mind blowing F430 Scuderia, which has a similar performance (hope it is in the game).

Going off topic, the LFA sounds like and F1 car! It's the most marvelous engine sound i've ever heard. Playing online with a decent sound system you will only hear his melody when it passes you like blurry a white arrow, and I think that it will be faster than any lamborghini, GTR or ferrari.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

I agree 👍, but to me most useable car is the GTR, it is reasonably fast in a straight line and it corners faster than electricity, it's AWD and it has a predictable behaviour. Every newbie would prefer to use them to race online than a mind blowing F430 Scuderia, which has a similar performance (hope it is in the game).

Going off topic, the LFA sounds like and F1 car! It's the most marvelous engine sound i've ever heard. Playing online with a decent sound system you will only hear his melody when it passes you like blurry a white arrow, and I think that it will be faster than any lamborghini, GTR or ferrari.

Impossible! I won't even mention the LP670-4 or the Enzo.

I think the LFA will be in the middle of the supercar class. Better than the R8 (low supercar tier) (maybe not the V10 version because that's towards the middle. Would be a good matchup though), but slower than the the 560-4 (middle), the ACR, Enzo and ZR1 (which are in the higher tier).

I'm just unimpressed with the car but wouldn't hesitate to use if I won it in the game!

 

[DCP]

After watching that top gear clip, this LFA is a car to be reckoned with.
To me, it's just as quick as the ZR1, ACR, GTR, SLS and F458 which are all as good at the Lamborgini. This LFA sounds great, and it will surprise many when first bought and driven.

 

[Heath_1]

Face the truth. Japanese cars will dominate. They always have and always will.

 

[Boffin]

Because the words "casual gamers" were uttered, I have to say that the dominant car for pick up and play drivers will be a 4WD. I personally don't think it will be any type of Murci, so I'd be inclined to say the V-sec R35.

For more committed people, the Pagani Zonda F (if it were to grace the grids of GT, which I hope so) will be the one. Quicker, but only for the skilled to make it properly dance - much like the F40 in GT5P.

 

[Neal]

For more committed people, the Pagani Zonda F (if it were to grace the grids of GT, which I hope so) will be the one. Quicker, but only for the skilled to make it properly dance - much like the F40 in GT5P.

Agreed, can't see many people getting the most out of the Pagani's, if it's included the Zonda Cinque would be up there for best road legal car.

 

[McLaren]

As shown, you have the LFA, a FR car, out perform a 4WD mid engined car in the Gallardo, in the wet by 3 secs a lap in real life! That's a huge amount. The LFA was engineered to be as light as possible and handle as well as possible, and it shows

If I recall correctly, the LF-A set a 1:22.8 in wet conditions with the LP560-4 setting a time of 1:19.5 in "damp" conditions. Nevertheless, if you take the TG rule of knocking off 3 seconds for a wet lap, the LF-A still remains at 1:19.8.

As fast as Lexus want the LF-A to be, it hasn't quite proven itself yet. It needs to gain a few more lap times to see where it really sits amongst the competition. And while it may come up next to some of the cars, it'll have a strong opposition from the LP560-4. Not even the ZR1 can get away from it on a few circuits.

 

[Dan_]

I think the LFA will be in the middle of the supercar class. Better than the R8 (low supercar tier) (maybe not the V10 version because that's towards the middle. Would be a good matchup though), but slower than the the 560-4 (middle), the ACR, Enzo and ZR1 (which are in the higher tier).

No way, LFA has a ultra-low gravity center because of the compact V10 and it's carbon fiber construction, the Enzo it's more powerful but it's engine is lazy to gain revs and is big(6 liter) and heavy.

According to me we can settle this on the track, but let me play too:
Lower: SLS AMG, GTR, F430, Regular Gallardo, Z06, SLR Mclaren
Middle Tier: 560-4, F430 Scuderia, Regular Murciélago
Upper Tier: Enzo, 458, ACR, ZR1, LFA, LP670-SV,Pagani Zonda F, RUF CTR3 (I'm praying for it...), Bugatti Veyron
Gods Tier: Any 1000+ BHP R32 nissan Skyline and :

Chuck Norris's tuned Texas Ranger Edition Subaru 360 Superleggera ZR1: