The Engine Thread
- Thread starter JohnBM01
- 144 comments
- 5,096 views
- 234
mmm just the kinda thread i was lookin for
the best 4 cyl lb for lb has to be the F20C or F22C... N/A of course..
proble is that it's rear wheel and incompatible with most other Hondas
so the most likely contender is B18C which can easily hit 450hp with a T3/T4...
the K20a is starting to kreep outta the wood work.. great engine.. design is different and a little bit of a headache to swap platforms when compared to the B series
Best 4 Cyl turbo has to be the SR20DET..
best Inline 6 is the RB26DETT
I own both these cars.. both are great.. my S13 is small and nibble but a little lacking in the low end... in my GTR i feel the torque pushing the car right up until the turbo's spool and i get a kick in the ass and the 4wheel traction is a real bonus off the line
SR's and RB's both are bullet proof engines and can be made real quick without building bottom ends...
2JZ is a clsoe second.. but i found it too Slow revving for my liking...
American engines lb for lb aren't very impressive... 5.7 liters and 320 ish hp doesn't really impress me... hp/ltr basis that's pretty weak...
but if u're just lookin at total output.. and ignoring weight and displacement and MPG and such.. then ya they're not so bad...
the best 4 cyl lb for lb has to be the F20C or F22C... N/A of course..
proble is that it's rear wheel and incompatible with most other Hondas
so the most likely contender is B18C which can easily hit 450hp with a T3/T4...
the K20a is starting to kreep outta the wood work.. great engine.. design is different and a little bit of a headache to swap platforms when compared to the B series
Best 4 Cyl turbo has to be the SR20DET..
best Inline 6 is the RB26DETT
I own both these cars.. both are great.. my S13 is small and nibble but a little lacking in the low end... in my GTR i feel the torque pushing the car right up until the turbo's spool and i get a kick in the ass and the 4wheel traction is a real bonus off the line
SR's and RB's both are bullet proof engines and can be made real quick without building bottom ends...
2JZ is a clsoe second.. but i found it too Slow revving for my liking...
American engines lb for lb aren't very impressive... 5.7 liters and 320 ish hp doesn't really impress me... hp/ltr basis that's pretty weak...
but if u're just lookin at total output.. and ignoring weight and displacement and MPG and such.. then ya they're not so bad...
- 895
Ottoman
Horsepower per litre is an absolutely useless measurement.
Take the LS6 Corvette engine and Nissan VQ35DE as found in the 350Z as examples.
Displacement:
LS6: 5.7L
VQ: 3.5L
Weight:
LS6: 458lbs
VQ: 460lbs
Fuel Economy (miles/U.S. gallon; [city/highway]):
LS6: 19/28
VQ: 20/26
Power:
LS6: 405hp
VQ: 287hp
Torque:
LS6: 400ft-lbs
VQ: 274ft-lbs
The only thing with respect to the LS6 that doesn't blow the VQ35DE out of the water is power per displacement.
- 1,515
daan
There is no other option.
Hiya!
*Faint*
- 1,515
Hiya!
Yea John Hemis are kewl
And for some reason, when ever I see something like a RAM or Ford's with Hemi...I just go like so much power to tow cars and RAM THEM INTO A WALL!!! 
I am really thrilled with the Dodge MAGNUM!!! Then name with it fits well considering its a a Hemi engine and the name is MAGNUM! We all or maybe not all know how powerful Magnum guns are! Hemi + Magnum name = POWER PULLER TO PULL ANYTHING DOWN! 
And the awesome Skylines and Supra engines SO much power to hold and another addition have to be the VIPERS! and with such a massy engine within a Viperish looking body...there is no better way to call it a "Viper"! It's ready to BITE anyone any minute now!
Yea John Hemis are kewl
And for some reason, when ever I see something like a RAM or Ford's with Hemi...I just go like so much power to tow cars and RAM THEM INTO A WALL!!! I am really thrilled with the Dodge MAGNUM!!! Then name with it fits well considering its a a Hemi engine and the name is MAGNUM! We all or maybe not all know how powerful Magnum guns are! Hemi + Magnum name = POWER PULLER TO PULL ANYTHING DOWN! And the awesome Skylines and Supra engines
SO much power to hold and another addition have to be the VIPERS! and with such a massy engine within a Viperish looking body...there is no better way to call it a "Viper"! It's ready to BITE anyone any minute now! Firebird
then again you're comparing an engine that was built to perform.....against an engine that is supposed to be practical with marginal power..
LS6's don't really provide for that comfortable of a ride I mean it's not bad, but when an engine can manage to make a Cadillac shake it's not that practical....
- 234
Firebird
hp/ltr=effeciency how the hell is that useless??
the american VQ is a POS cuz of your emission laws
the VQ's in my area are nudging over 300ish hp
6spd manual bone stock i've seen it take an M3 SMG rolling from 30kms
considering the car costs Half as much....
and the VQ is detuned completely vs the LS6, why aren't u comparing it to the LS1 or the LT1?? or slap the Greddy Twin Turbo Kit make it VQDETT with no other engine mods...
VQ was made to be boosted... they just haven't released it officially... the engine is low compression and bullet proof.. what more do u want?
why don't i take the turbos off my RB26DETT and make RB26DE and we compare it to an LS6
u wanna real engine to compare it to then compare it to the BMW S54 engine (E46 m3 if u don't know) then u can compare tuned vs tuned both N/A
wellyrn
(Banned)
- 248
You have a first gen rx-7? It' the red (or is it black? can't remember) button beside the wheel. After '85 they are automatic.
Magnum is a POS. I hate how they are marketing big engines in non-performance applications in North America. I think it's called the Magnum ala the condom brand. Don't you think its shaped like a dank? And what about thier slogan? Magnum the station wagon for middle aged dads with small dicks
There is no car that needs a hemi less than a station wagon.
Magnum is a POS. I hate how they are marketing big engines in non-performance applications in North America. I think it's called the Magnum ala the condom brand. Don't you think its shaped like a dank? And what about thier slogan? Magnum the station wagon for middle aged dads with small dicks
There is no car that needs a hemi less than a station wagon.
- 26,911
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
Well-ryn... okay, that was cheesy, so let me try again. Well, wellryn, I don't really think it's a piece of crap. When people say that this Magnum is a tuner/"ricer" killer, then I'll begin to lose interest. But Dodge is just trying to market the return of the past. You know, powerful, rear-wheel drive, American cars. They did that with the Chrysler 300, and rear-wheel drive is returning. Only thing is, how many jackasses will drive them like they're mixing things up at Talladega or Darlington.
For a moment, order was unrestored as people talked about airplane engines, and that 5M lb/ft of torque engine... thankfully we have order in the court. I respect Dodge and their subdivisions for their wanting to be different. Examples from respective brands include the Prowler, the PT Cruiser, the Magnum, the 300 (formerly 300M), and I'd even include the Dodge Viper- the most successful GT race car of the past 10 years. That Viper got a Hemi? Hell no! The latest one has a mean 500 hp monster. It's a supercar that isn't as exotic as Ferrari or Lamborghini. And McLaren'sAngel, I hate to say this, but if that quad-turbo ME412 comes out, the McLaren F1 may have some steep competition.
I'm kind of curious as to what you people have to say about 1,000 hp motors of then and now. More importantly, the Porsche that OWN3D Le Mans several times over, the Porsche 917. What kind of engine package was in that Hell Spawn of a car?
For a moment, order was unrestored as people talked about airplane engines, and that 5M lb/ft of torque engine... thankfully we have order in the court. I respect Dodge and their subdivisions for their wanting to be different. Examples from respective brands include the Prowler, the PT Cruiser, the Magnum, the 300 (formerly 300M), and I'd even include the Dodge Viper- the most successful GT race car of the past 10 years. That Viper got a Hemi? Hell no! The latest one has a mean 500 hp monster. It's a supercar that isn't as exotic as Ferrari or Lamborghini. And McLaren'sAngel, I hate to say this, but if that quad-turbo ME412 comes out, the McLaren F1 may have some steep competition.
I'm kind of curious as to what you people have to say about 1,000 hp motors of then and now. More importantly, the Porsche that OWN3D Le Mans several times over, the Porsche 917. What kind of engine package was in that Hell Spawn of a car?
- 234
It takes more then Rwd to make a car nice to drive...
it's all about the balance of the car
i couldn't find any specs on the lemans Porsche... but i'm it was probably no more then 6-700 hp tops... the car is designed from ground up to be fast in both straight line and in a corner.... unlike those kids who think a couple mods will turn their midsize sedan into a rally car
it's all about the balance of the car
i couldn't find any specs on the lemans Porsche... but i'm it was probably no more then 6-700 hp tops... the car is designed from ground up to be fast in both straight line and in a corner.... unlike those kids who think a couple mods will turn their midsize sedan into a rally car
wellyrn
(Banned)
- 248
"When people say that this Magnum is a tuner/"ricer" killer, then I'll begin to lose interest. But Dodge is just trying to market the return of the past. You know, powerful, rear-wheel drive, American cars. They did that with the Chrysler 300, and rear-wheel drive is returning. Only thing is, how many jackasses will drive them like they're mixing things up at Talladega or Darlington."
Thats pretty much my point. Who needs a hemi powered station wagon? If you have 3 grossly obese children, a 450lb wife and your old car can't make it up hills with them in it? If you want to do doughnuts for Granny?
And im serious about the shape, or size for that matter being a marketing tool. Old guys want bigger and/or longer cars. Freud anyone?
How about props for the Ford CVH 1.6L from old feistas and escorts? Very reliable and tunable for an older economy engine. Brits like it.
Thats pretty much my point. Who needs a hemi powered station wagon? If you have 3 grossly obese children, a 450lb wife and your old car can't make it up hills with them in it? If you want to do doughnuts for Granny?
And im serious about the shape, or size for that matter being a marketing tool. Old guys want bigger and/or longer cars. Freud anyone?
How about props for the Ford CVH 1.6L from old feistas and escorts? Very reliable and tunable for an older economy engine. Brits like it.
- 24,063
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
How about the 1500bhp BMW F1 engine from the 80's
- a 1.5litre inline 4 with the block based on BMW's 4cyl road car engine!
1000bhp per litre (in qualifing spec)
- a 1.5litre inline 4 with the block based on BMW's 4cyl road car engine!
1000bhp per litre (in qualifing spec)
- 1,515
JohnBM01
Hiya!
That just reminded me...
It does seem that car companies such as ford are trying to bring back things from the past but why??? 
I think they are making the new mustangs have some of that old fashion look is because of the audience around them. I notice alot of teenagers rather have the older mustangs than the current ones now. I also even notice middle aged people STILL in love with those American Muscles and having no interest in the current Muscles of today. They want the OLD way, the OLD sound and the OLD feel! To give some examples, I see this parking lot at the beach everytime I go and there are middle aged people displaying their classic cars all the time with BIG audience looking at them.They must be bringing all these old things back so that it can attract people who like classic American Muscles to forget buying a USED American Muscle and just BUY A NEW ONE!!
Its just that someone buying a mustang in the past already gives Ford money, but when others buy it from that person, Ford doesnt make money over it. Ford wants to revive the OLD way so that people will buy the new American Muscles so they can make MORE money! My opinion is all !
And about that quad-turbo ME412...I wanna see it !
But I hope McLaren LTD will do some kind of response to it by making another McLaren F1! 
- 895
Ottomanhp/ltr=effeciency how the hell is that useless??
the american VQ is a POS cuz of your emission laws
the VQ's in my area are nudging over 300ish hp
6spd manual bone stock i've seen it take an M3 SMG rolling from 30kms
considering the car costs Half as much....
and the VQ is detuned completely vs the LS6, why aren't u comparing it to the LS1 or the LT1?? or slap the Greddy Twin Turbo Kit make it VQDETT with no other engine mods...
VQ was made to be boosted... they just haven't released it officially... the engine is low compression and bullet proof.. what more do u want?
why don't i take the turbos off my RB26DETT and make RB26DE and we compare it to an LS6
u wanna real engine to compare it to then compare it to the BMW S54 engine (E46 m3 if u don't know) then u can compare tuned vs tuned both N/A
You said:
Pound for pound the LS1 makes more power than any VQ35DE from the Nissan factory. The LS6 and LS1 both make more power and torque than the VQ35DE. The LS6 and LS1 are lighter than the VQ35DE. The LS6 and LS1 are smaller than the VQ35DE. The LS6 and LS1 get roughly the same fuel economy as the VQ35DE.
Like I said, besides power per displacement, the LS6 embarrasses the VQ35DE in every respect.
And, again, power per displacement means absolutely dick-all. Does the one with higher hp/L have more power? NO. More torque? NO. Is it lighter? NO. Is it smaller? NO. Is it more fuel economical? NO.
Like I said, dick-all.
And what's this garbage about the VQ35DE being "detuned"? It has double oevrhead camshafts with variable valve timing and lift on both the intake and exhaust, as well as 10.3:1 compression. "Detuned" it is not.
Furthermore the VQ35DE was NOT designed for forced induction. "the engine is low compression"? Sorry chief, read up. 10.3:1 is quite high. Most forced induction engines have compression ratios under 8.5:1 to account for more air being forced into the combustion chambers.
"they just haven't released it officially"? Sorry, but what you really mean to say is "there is no such thing as a VQ35DETT from the factory for sale in a production car. I'm just making **** up because I cannot present a valid counterpoint".
Fine. The S54 weighs about as much as the VQ35DE and LS6, makes 72 less hp than the LS6, 138 less ft-lbs of torque than the LS6, and gets worse fuel economy than both the VQ35DE and LS6. Happy now?
- 1,795
And run extremely well in Speed World Challenge, buddyBahboYeah, the LS6 is a poor engine, because it makes Cadillacs shake.
- 234
First off this debate started off completely on the wrong foot
u're comparing a midrange nissan 6 cyl engine.. to the best Chevy has to offer..
which has 2.2 ltrs more of displacement and 2 more cyl's so it's totally bias in the first place...
if the LS6 is at "light" as u claim it is.. are u including engine AND transmission? and care to explain why on earth camaro's and vette's are so "front heavy" and are good for nothing but straight line performance.. where as u can take a 350Z from the show room and it'll be competing with m3's on the circuit...
in fact of all the Best Motoring reviews.. i've yet to see them even bother throwing in a C5 or Z06 against the 350Z m3's Carrera2's Evo's etc...no point
and if the LS1/LS6 is Smaller then VQ as u claim.. why on earth the is engine hood sooo god damn long? and it deffinately aint empty inside the hood of the camaro or vette... vette is alot bigger then the 350Z, hell even my GTR is smaller then the Vette's and camaros'...
once again HP/ltr point out EFFECIENCY I.E. how many liters of displacement do i need to make a given HP.. the LS1 takes 5.7 litrs to make 325 HP... the M3 makes it in 3.2 hell the E36 m3 since 1995 was makin that much power.... that means it took 2.5 ltrs LESS to make the even MORE power .. soo assuming everything was equal... take the the m3 (not even CSL) was also 5.7 ltrs it would make 610 hp
controversly... if the Chevy was only 3.2 ltrs then it would only make a very pathetic 182 hp... and your precious LS6 would make 227hp... THAT is my point...
so when i said "lb for lb" reffering to the boxing term.. i should of actually said "CC for CC"
so something even REMOTELY close to the displacement of the LS6.. would be the BMW V10 in the E60 M5... 5 litrs.. 500hp 500Nm trq... AND redlining.. in areas only a crappy american pushrod could dream of... 6.500 HAHAHA what a joke...
As for your VQ point.. 10.3 is high for an LS6 maybe... but if it was SO high on the VQ.. care to explain how Greddy can slap twin turbo's on the engine (notice ample room to do it unlike some very large engines i can think of) intercooler and piping.. and a piggy back engine management system.. and boosting the engine performance greatly RELIABLY... which means no detonation and no pinging.. even on crappy american fuel... so u put 9psi and make close to 400hp so obviously the compression isn't as high as u try to make it soudn "chief"
the Garbage about it being detuned has nothign to do with it being DOHC or having VTC... just cuz the chevy engine has been the same for 50 yrs plus Fuel injection and typical OBD-II things and still has only 2 cams.. doesn't mean the VQ is highly tuned....
I know how forced induction works i own two turbo charged cars in case u didn't notice my sig... and even tho u claim they have 8.5ish compression ratios... do u know what the Rb26dett is?
in the 9's... stock boost 7 psi.. i can put it up to 18psi... at 7psi i eat camaro's and m5's rolling... even CBR 900's...
i can turn a screw and make more then a 100 more hp... without doin anything can u?
i have more to post but i'll do it later.. i have to install my AFC 2 on the SR20 before it get's dark
u're comparing a midrange nissan 6 cyl engine.. to the best Chevy has to offer..
which has 2.2 ltrs more of displacement and 2 more cyl's so it's totally bias in the first place...
if the LS6 is at "light" as u claim it is.. are u including engine AND transmission? and care to explain why on earth camaro's and vette's are so "front heavy" and are good for nothing but straight line performance.. where as u can take a 350Z from the show room and it'll be competing with m3's on the circuit...
in fact of all the Best Motoring reviews.. i've yet to see them even bother throwing in a C5 or Z06 against the 350Z m3's Carrera2's Evo's etc...no point
and if the LS1/LS6 is Smaller then VQ as u claim.. why on earth the is engine hood sooo god damn long? and it deffinately aint empty inside the hood of the camaro or vette... vette is alot bigger then the 350Z, hell even my GTR is smaller then the Vette's and camaros'...
once again HP/ltr point out EFFECIENCY I.E. how many liters of displacement do i need to make a given HP.. the LS1 takes 5.7 litrs to make 325 HP... the M3 makes it in 3.2 hell the E36 m3 since 1995 was makin that much power.... that means it took 2.5 ltrs LESS to make the even MORE power .. soo assuming everything was equal... take the the m3 (not even CSL) was also 5.7 ltrs it would make 610 hp
controversly... if the Chevy was only 3.2 ltrs then it would only make a very pathetic 182 hp... and your precious LS6 would make 227hp... THAT is my point...
so when i said "lb for lb" reffering to the boxing term.. i should of actually said "CC for CC"
so something even REMOTELY close to the displacement of the LS6.. would be the BMW V10 in the E60 M5... 5 litrs.. 500hp 500Nm trq... AND redlining.. in areas only a crappy american pushrod could dream of... 6.500 HAHAHA what a joke...
As for your VQ point.. 10.3 is high for an LS6 maybe... but if it was SO high on the VQ.. care to explain how Greddy can slap twin turbo's on the engine (notice ample room to do it unlike some very large engines i can think of) intercooler and piping.. and a piggy back engine management system.. and boosting the engine performance greatly RELIABLY... which means no detonation and no pinging.. even on crappy american fuel... so u put 9psi and make close to 400hp so obviously the compression isn't as high as u try to make it soudn "chief"
the Garbage about it being detuned has nothign to do with it being DOHC or having VTC... just cuz the chevy engine has been the same for 50 yrs plus Fuel injection and typical OBD-II things and still has only 2 cams.. doesn't mean the VQ is highly tuned....
I know how forced induction works i own two turbo charged cars in case u didn't notice my sig... and even tho u claim they have 8.5ish compression ratios... do u know what the Rb26dett is?
in the 9's... stock boost 7 psi.. i can put it up to 18psi... at 7psi i eat camaro's and m5's rolling... even CBR 900's...
i can turn a screw and make more then a 100 more hp... without doin anything can u?
i have more to post but i'll do it later.. i have to install my AFC 2 on the SR20 before it get's dark
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
Ottoman
I'll let Firebird address the other points in your post. This is all I want to reply to.
The C5 and Z06 are both outstanding track cars, barring some of the little problems that all street cars suffer from like brake fade and mushy body control. Drivers being equal, the C5 is quite a match for a 350Z, M3, 996 C2 or an Evo around ANY track. In fact, the Z would have a hard time getting away from an LT1 powered C4. The Z06 would simply dominate them all. Period.
I find Best Motoring entertaining, but fairly biased towards Japanese makes. Their practice of inverse starting positions based on power/weight ratio, for example, is ridiculous and contrary to long accepted racing standards. In the 350Z vs. M3 vs. S2000 vs. Boxster episode, the M3 started last yet posted the best lap times. In a proper race, the M3 would have been on the pole and the Z would have never caught up.
But I digress. You should look into Showroom Stock road racing results here in the States. You'll find that Vettes have always done quite well. They even rule in Solo II, a super handling intensive sport very popular here.
M
- 234
///M-Spec
this i can't say anythign about.. from my personal experience and watching ppl drive they're "american muscle" ... the car is always fishtailing and oversteering on corners... hell even in a straight line they start goin all over the place... dunno ahout the "road race" u talk of... perhaps the skill and style of driving a V8 is different and i've seen no one that can command one in the corners... only drag...
as for best motoring... the inverse poling... i feel gives a "handicap/crutch" to the obviously slower in a straight line car... imagine they put the GTR up front.. it's next to no traction loss launches.. put catapult it to the front... makin it difficult for competition.. so they try to "even" out the competition a little.. by giving the slower guy a head start.. and battling it out in the corners... rather then a drag race from zero...
i dunno bout the bias towards japanese cars.. these guys drive and rip everything.. even the lambo's and ferrari's... and i trust their "test drives" far more then Car and Driver and such... i'm sure C&D has bias towards american cars.. Jeremy clarckson has bias towards british cars, so it's normal to expect Best motoring to have some bias too... nationalism is to be expect.. but the drivers always put they're best into it.. pushin the cars as hard as they will go...u gotta give them taht much 👍
- 3,401
- Pennsylvania
- Darkdeeds427
And so does a Trueno, besides that point, A Corvette C5 Z06 can kill the 200 ft skidpad at .94 g's, can go 0-60 in 4.3 seconds, top out at 171, cover the 1320 in 12.7 and bring you home using 28 miles to the gallon. How many Porsches or GT-R's do that?Ottoman
- 234
Jetboys427
a stock trueno? harldy? and even if it did.. recovering or even Driving a Trueno sideways is possible... i've never seen a C5 or Z06 Drift except in GT3....
0-60 =4.3? maybe with racing slicks dumping the clutch and flawless driving in perfect weather conditions on a race track...
28 MPG?!?! u're crazzyyy... unless the car is idling rolling down hills... honda's make 28-30 mpg... how is 5.7ltrs gonna do that??
12.7 1/4 mile i can believe.. with slicks... GTR does it in 13's...
i've seen C5's and Z06's launch.. they just sit in one spot and burn...
I stand corrected on teh Best motoring... I saw a C5 racing a bunch of imports. and the C5 was waaaaay behind
- 55
If a car can't keep up in the 0-60 department, but can rip the other up in the corners, it CAN, get this, beat the other car. If a car can't keep up on the straightaway, then it'd better beat it in the corners, or else, guess what, it loses, face it. The point of the competition is to see which car gets the fastest time, why say a car's faster if it had to have a handicap to be faster, in that case, an old Mini will beat any car out there.Ottoman
Last time I checked, Lambo and Ferrari weren't Japanese, so that doesn't really prove that they don't have a bias.
So now you're saying it's OK to be bias because others are? Nationalism is to be expected? If you just go by the numbers and lap times, nationalism doesn't play a role. A car has to perform to get my vote, I'm not going to say a car's better because it's from a certain nation, a Japanese car isn't better than an American car just because it's Japanese.
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
Ottoman
Sounds to me like what you saw were clowns with more car than talent, instead.
Ottoman
I.E. "Fixing" the race so the slower car wins.
Ottoman
Actually, mid 12s is an average time for a Z06 on street tires. The good guys get them into the 11s, bone stock. Add a set of DRs and its steady 11s all day long.
Ottoman
Again, what you've seen are drivers with more car than talent.
OttomanI stand corrected on teh Best motoring... I saw a C5 racing a bunch of imports. and the C5 was waaaaay behind
Link to video, please?
M
- 1,795
The leading engine choice among champions
- 1,795
Another champion powerplant...
2003 Hendrick Motorsports NWCS-spec Chevrolet 358
- 234
Chevelle SS
i agree.. the handi cap is to put the cars next to each other when they're in the corners head to head so that it's not an open road for one car to keep goin...
i'd like to think there's no bias too.. of course numbers speak loudest... i agree Japanese make some pretty BS cars too.. i didn't say they're all good...
i don't get your ferrari point u seem to contradict yourself...
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