Ottoman
first off.. a word of advice... if u're gonna make a point that is on my side... maybe u shouldn't start your post with a Direct insult.. it kinda puts people off... and might make a person a wee bit Defensive .... a better way to start might have been "u have some valid points Ottoman but i must disagree with u on.. blah blah"
you're supposed to read and digest the body of what i write, not get insulted by the first line and then ignore the rest. if YOU don't do that , i can't help you. you need to do your due diligence, i can't do it for you. were all (mostly) adults here and don't need to have an adult looking over our shoulder to make sure were reading it all.
it wasn't a cheap shot at chevy.. i merely stated that american V8's are not high/free revving engines.. it's a simple fact...due to their arcane design and little innovation through the yrs (minus Fuel injection and OBD II odds and ends)
while the OHV engine may not be as fancy and "new" as the DOHC units, to call them arcane is simply to not understand the innovation that went into the design of the newer motors. yes the old ones didnt spin very high. but they didnt have to. what people enjoyed about them and still do to a large extent is their torque. unfortunately most people dont really understand the difference between torque and power. im not going to explain it here.
that said, the new motors can definitely spin very high. and it takes a lot of innovation and
out of the box thinking in the design of the valvetrain components to make that happen. intense study of things as inane as the harmonics of the pushrod, to the design of the lifter and rocker ratio have yielded engines whose redline is comparable to an OHC engine.
with better torque still. and all across the rev range too. there's a lot going on that makes an LS motor rev, so don't dismiss it so readily, if you haven't studied it.
Vette has no "power adders"? u have 5.7 ltrs of raw displacement what more do u want?(almost double most japanese cars and triple most hondas) u want a currently mass produced Naturally aspirated engine from japan to compare to an LS.. u wanna limit the playing field anymore there champ?
you would be surprised how much an apples to apples comparison that would be. the relatively large displacement of the american car's engines, thier size, their "old school" technology that they continue to use, and so on, in contrast to their japanese cohorts, are the result of history, economics, natural resources in the respective countries and so on.
the amercans were mobilised in the early twenties. the use of the conveyer belt in the making of cars having reduced the assembly of a model T to five minutes. as was its lack of options, lack of paint colors and other things. about the same time that henry ford used those innovations, he also raised the pay of his employees enough for them to aspire to own a car. prior to that, cars were playthings for the rich. coupled with the low price of gasoline and burgeoning middle class, this created a market, earlier than anywhere else in the world, for cheap cars the common man could afford. cheap gas and the local availability of natural resources involved in car assembly made it possible moreso than in other countries that werent as blessed in terms of natural resources.
however this also inured americans from paying high prices for thier cars, gas and car related expenses, and to counter that, the manufacturers, eager to sell more cars, used existing technology with minor improvements, in their cars until very recently. fortunately for them the market didnt need to have fancy complicated suspension systems since the roads were mostly flat, or high efficiency engines since gas was dirt cheap and so on. it didnt hurt that using old technology helped profits for the manufacturers either.
compare this to the japanese who were only really mobilised in the late sixties early seventies, whose country contains little if any petroleum resources, and whose reserves of iron and steel were not sufficient and warranted importation. coupled with the relative over crowding of the small islands by comparison the the states and narrow roads, and you have a receipe for cars that are small and fuel efficient.
im not gonna bore you with more historical data, as by now you should be getting an idea of why american cars have had large engines and cars for so long, and the rest of the world not. the relative size difference in dispalcement is more to historical and resource connotations than simply picking a number for engine size.
the best engines were the RB26DETT and 2JZGTE (6 cyl class) and SR20DET or perhaps the 4G63(4 cyl class) both of these are turbo and don't fit into your "specifications"
ahhh. the old favorites. all very expensive to make in comparison to even an LS1/2 engine. all more complicated to make, and all much heavier relative to displacement. and all more expensive from which to eke out more power, although the bottom ends are beefy and capable of a whole lot, nearly negating the expense. iron blocks, forged crankshafts, oil squirters, other tech from racing to make the engines strong and make em tough.
but making 400 horses requires premuim gasoline, while a corvette will do it on regular. and 400 is about the limit for the extreme for the SR and 4G although more can be had with the use of expensive ****.
that said, once you get "all the right stuff" together for the sixes, all you need for more power is bigger turbos. but all the right stuff entails changing all the ancillaries before and after the engine. so intake, exhaust, injectors, fuel pump, chip, intercooler, blowoff valve, wastegate/ boost controller, throttle body and more have to be replaced to have the requisite "all the right stuff." add up the cost of getting to say 700 hosepower
reliably (lets call it $15000 to be conservative) and apply it to a corvette motor what do you get.
easy, you get one 400 horsepwer motor and one 700 horsepower motor. simply go to GM racing (or race shop), tell em you want a racing engine and plunk down your 15G. they'll ship it to your shop. and the large engine will still make more low down torque. maybe less total, but more where it counts, where you need it for acceleration and takeoff.
how do u plan on leveling the playing field?
is the comparison based on Total ouput? hp/ltr? mpg? Total Displacement? equal power?
theres no levelling off required. you simpy compare the pros and cons of the various engines. if you wanna level the playing field then you have to add power adders to the corvette as well. this is a comparison of engines, not a which can theoretically make better numbers.
If u want Total displacement i say the E60 M5's V10 5.0 litrs vs your 5.7 (and the bmw is very free revving) almost 100hp more
fair enough. but its easily twice the price, hand built, needs premium gas, has higher fuel consumption, weighs more, can't be tuned much too higher than that, is a lot more complicated, more top heavy (lowers CoG of a car, reducing roll axis and yaw and other things) and has two more cylinders. weren't you the one whining about the corvette having more cylinders?
hp/ltr= s2000 engine: 110+hp per liter
this engine is what can be called technical masturbation. nice figures but pretty much useless. go put it in your grandmas buick and see how useful the engine is. no torque, usable power in the upper echelon of the rev range and suitable only for lightweight cars. but it has a low emissions rating. 👍
or an engine of equal power? 360 modena's engine: 400 hp from 3.6 liters Naturally aspirated
see bmw M5 5.0 liter V10 above. except add: maintenance will bakrupt a small country.
and btw NSX maybe on it's "death bed" but it's not dead yet... and tho it's a 100+ HP less then the vette the TYPE S (not type R) can beat the C6 vette in qtr mile...
you need to put down the crack pipe there buddy. the C6 is the new corvette that's still not out yet, and you think the NSX S is gonna beat it through the 1/4?
as for the VQ being entered in JGTC championship that's true.. but infinite budget and a race team can transform any engine into a monster... i never said the VQ wasn't a good platform to work on.. i meant outta the box...
dude, you moaned about comparing a high performance sports car engine to a (i think you called it) midlevel engine.<<shakes head>>
if u take that into consideration.. the Bolt on Greddy TT kit for the VQ will put it up to almost 390 HP with no modifactions to the engine.. just the TT kit piping and piggy back EMU...(right up there with the LS6)
bolt on an extra washer on the nuts holding down the air cleaner and you still have 400 horsepower on the LS6.
in fact bolt on nothin and you still have 400hp, and $7000 in your pocket.
i may be mistaken but the I heard the Skyline was SOO good in the JGTC that they actually banned it from competing because it was too damn fast... (RB26 can be tuned past 1000hp easily)
which explains why we see it in race footage? of the JGTC?
that series relies on equalisation to make for "more competitive" racing, as do most. the audi quattro was banned. so were rotaties. big deal. racing sucks when a make/ car dominates. thats why governing bodies use rewards weight, regulate throttle size, tire size, engine size etc.
and if you do your research, you will find that certain makes have much higher constraints put on em when they race than others. if the skyline was banned we wouldn't see it on race day would we.
and rumours have it that the Next generation GTR R35 will have a VQ33DETT... which is yet to be revealed to the public
considering that the VQ engine is the backbone of nissans midsize engines for the forseeable future this might be true. but what point are you making. rumors are there's going to be a limited edition 700hp blue devil corvette.
its almost 6 am. i gotta rugby game to watch in one hour, i got home from the club after 2 am. and i've had about an hours worth of nap time. im tired, i got nothing to add to this right now, except this; i don't actually know much about american cars and engines, and yet i have refuted or countered pretty much everything you said. and im in a near zombie state.
💡 heres an idea; get your facts straight. figure out a line of reasoning. stick to it. fanboyism is poor rhetoric.
How much is it to cram in a Lingenfelter 427? 
