Nope, Early Grp A rules dictated that they had to make 5000 units that the rally car was based off, Evo 1,2,3,4,5,6 were all needed for this one purpose! (it wouldnt of made to much diff if no one was that keen on them) as up untill 01 mitsi ran Grp A not WRC. From evo 7 onwards the car had very little to do with the WRC version as the car was only based off the production lancer body and the 4G63 Engine block. Same deal for all the others, except they started using WRC rules in 97nikyOriginally, the Evo wasn't meant for production, it was a one-off deal. It was a bloody brilliant idea, too. They brought it back due to enthusiast demand, and kept on producing them because people were buying them.Good for Mitsubishi that they kept building them.
The fastest ROAD car in GT4!
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I know about the Skylines, that's why I brought up the question of road-legality. Because the definition of road-legal can either be too restricting or too accepting.
500 minimum leaves out the Enzo and the Lancia Stratos, among others. The 500 minimum could count for production car comparisons, but not for all road cars. There are some minor boutiques that make in numbers much smaller than that.
500 minimum leaves out the Enzo and the Lancia Stratos, among others. The 500 minimum could count for production car comparisons, but not for all road cars. There are some minor boutiques that make in numbers much smaller than that.
- 23,800
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EJ20TMAN
Why does everyone pick on me.
(my mouth seems to get me in trouble in THIS THREAD ONLY) It's okay. Maybe I should've chosen my wording more carefully. What I meant was that the Evo was originally built only for homologation, but they made more (especially from the Evo III onwards) than they needed for homologation because they were so popular. They made 7,000 Evo IIIs, 12,000 Evo IVs and 6000 Evo Vs. Without the popularity of the previous EVO cars, there wouldn't be such a big market for them now, as the EVO is now a cult-car.
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
At first I was interested in "what makes a street car."
Now I'm more interested in finding the fastest "possible" street car and after a large list is compiled, weed out the non-street cars.
I think this is gonna be a good way to do it since naming all the street cars is so much harder than picking out the ones that don't fit.
Also, regarding the tires (once again)...
Niky was getting close to what I'm thinking.
However, "N" tires seem to be more about the real world and daily driving.
(just my take)
N1 is for the slow-pokes.
N2 is for the normal daily drivers with performance elements (celica, integra, etc...).
N3 is for the high performance daily drivers (vette, tuscan, etc...)
"Sports" tires on the other hand are not at all related to daily driving.
"S" tires seem to be dedicated to high performance driving with nothing else in mind.
The reason I say that is because the tire description no longer address anything more than grip and tire life on the track.
These tires would be for all of the cars that are based around performance and nothing else.
(RUF, XJ220, Zonda, "Tuners"... )
S1 is for longer runs on the track.
S2 is the standard equipment.
S3 is for time trials.
With a layout like that we would be able to account for all of the road cars without crossing lines in odd ways like having a XJ220 on "N" tires...
Thinking about it like this also accounts for the limits in real world tires.
The tires on an RGT and a XJ220 can't be "too" different...
Both are designed with more of the "on track" life style than the "what do they cost" mentality.
So if we were to accept that sort of thought process everything might work out.
All the road cars would be able to fit into one category or another and "true" high performance cars would no longer be on different standards.
Race based tires for racing cars. 👍
Cause after all, the heart of something like a XJ220 or Zonda is the very heart of "GT"... Drive it to the track, race it, drive it home (with room for 2 people and their lugauge).
Now I'm more interested in finding the fastest "possible" street car and after a large list is compiled, weed out the non-street cars.
I think this is gonna be a good way to do it since naming all the street cars is so much harder than picking out the ones that don't fit.
Also, regarding the tires (once again)...
Niky was getting close to what I'm thinking.
However, "N" tires seem to be more about the real world and daily driving.
(just my take)
N1 is for the slow-pokes.
N2 is for the normal daily drivers with performance elements (celica, integra, etc...).
N3 is for the high performance daily drivers (vette, tuscan, etc...)
"Sports" tires on the other hand are not at all related to daily driving.
"S" tires seem to be dedicated to high performance driving with nothing else in mind.
The reason I say that is because the tire description no longer address anything more than grip and tire life on the track.
These tires would be for all of the cars that are based around performance and nothing else.
(RUF, XJ220, Zonda, "Tuners"... )
S1 is for longer runs on the track.
S2 is the standard equipment.
S3 is for time trials.
With a layout like that we would be able to account for all of the road cars without crossing lines in odd ways like having a XJ220 on "N" tires...
Thinking about it like this also accounts for the limits in real world tires.
The tires on an RGT and a XJ220 can't be "too" different...
Both are designed with more of the "on track" life style than the "what do they cost" mentality.
So if we were to accept that sort of thought process everything might work out.
All the road cars would be able to fit into one category or another and "true" high performance cars would no longer be on different standards.
Race based tires for racing cars. 👍
Cause after all, the heart of something like a XJ220 or Zonda is the very heart of "GT"... Drive it to the track, race it, drive it home (with room for 2 people and their lugauge).
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
Exactley, all road cars refers to any model thats road legal, you need 25 of a model to be built to qualify for any production car records such as fastest production car, fastest production car to 60 ect. If you have one thats road legal it's still a road car, it's still eligable for records but it's fastest road car, fastest road car to 60 ect.niky
And Kent, thats great thinking, I agree all the way on that matter.
- 656
For me it´s the GT-One(whonder why? )
OK it´s not the real road car, but I see it as that cause PD of course didn´t put that in the game "just for fun"- so it could be a "black-street" version.
this is it!
well my "normal" favorite road car is the HONDA NSX (type s ´01) cause it was my 1st car in GT4 and it´s lovely!
)OK it´s not the real road car, but I see it as that cause PD of course didn´t put that in the game "just for fun"- so it could be a "black-street" version.
this is it!
well my "normal" favorite road car is the HONDA NSX (type s ´01) cause it was my 1st car in GT4 and it´s lovely!
- 1,436
Actually, that's not quite right. If you've ever noticed when you buy a car, at the bottom of the screen asking if you want to get into the car now, there's a scrolling message that says something to the effect of "your car has been equipped with S2 tires for circuit racing. To experience the car the way it was originally built, N tires are available for free from the dealer". Something like that. So the only way it makes sense to me is that they take into account each car's tire grip, and therefore a Viper on N3 tires will have more grip than a Civic on N3 tires, because a Viper has much wider tires than a Civic. The tire thing has been discussed in other threads and beaten to death, but N tires are supposed to emulate what the car comes with stock in real life. S tires are barely street legal circuit tires such as Mickey Thompson steet tires or others, that only have two or three grooves in them to make them technically street legal. Tuner cars may sometimes come with these type of tires, but any manufactured production car will come with tires with actual tread patterns so they can be driven in rain and will last longer, not to mention ride a little quieter and softer. I'd say that N1s are for older cars such as the Fiat Panda, the muscle cars (bial plys anyone?), the E-Type, etc. N2s are for most newer cars such as integras, civics, GTOs and the like, and N3s are for supercars and anything that has huge wide tires on it from the factory, such as Camaros, Vipers, NSX, XJ220, etc. S tires come on all the cars in the game simply because you're going to RACE all the cars in the game, so why not put street-legal circuit racing tires on them?Kent
- 1,436
The GT-One isn't a road car at all, it's a race carGT-One LoverFor me it´s the GT-One(whonder why?
OK it´s not the real road car, but I see it as that cause PD of course didn´t put that in the game "just for fun"- so it could be a "black-street" version.
this is it!
well my "normal" favorite road car is the HONDA NSX (type s ´01) cause it was my 1st car in GT4 and it´s lovely!
Unless you count Sarthe and the Nurburgring as roads....
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
I haven't noticed this, next time I switch GT4 o I'll have a look. Well spotte if it's right, however the road legal slicks you mention with just the three grooves are fitted to a small few road cars from the factory, guess what one of thoes cars is? I'm a BIG fan of itJTSnooks
.- 79
Well if we limit to only 25 cars manufactured in order to qualify as a road car is out of line. Then any limited car can qualify.Here is a prime way to define road cars.
In the wikipedia online a Touring car is noted as being a highly modified road car.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_car
There is no dispute there, so in other words if the car has been or can be made into a touring car it qualifies as a road car.
"In sports car racing, production versions of sports cars and purpose-built prototype cars compete with each other on closed circuits." Is a quote also from this page, so in other words cars thay were built for one soul perpous are not road cars such as the r390. It is derived from a soul perpous car. Cars that are not legal to be made into a Touring car are not considered a road car.
In the wikipedia online a Touring car is noted as being a highly modified road car.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_car
There is no dispute there, so in other words if the car has been or can be made into a touring car it qualifies as a road car.
"In sports car racing, production versions of sports cars and purpose-built prototype cars compete with each other on closed circuits." Is a quote also from this page, so in other words cars thay were built for one soul perpous are not road cars such as the r390. It is derived from a soul perpous car. Cars that are not legal to be made into a Touring car are not considered a road car.
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
It's not down to us, the real regulations are 25 or more car have to be built and sold to make that model eligable for production car status. That means it can attemp production car records, theres different taxes involved in the buying and selling ect and it's homologated for motorsports events that require a production car. As for touring cars, a car may not be allowed to be a touring car simply because it's can't fit a required engine. Take the BTCC cars for example, they arn't road legal, neither are the AVESCO V8's or the DTM's. They are all touring cars yet none of them are road legal. Looking at touring cars again, a car may not be allowed to become a touring car in many if not all touring car series simply because it can't carry 4 people when standard. So does that mean all 2 seaters arn't prduction cars, I don't think so and I think we should try to keep it as real as posible. Besides, 25 cars doesn't mean any limited model can qualify, it rules out the Speed 12, ZZ-II, R390 and more. But again, I've said this before, the threads about the fastest road car, not production road car, so the cars mentioned still qualify.
- 1,436
Bah, why do people quote the wikipedia as fact? It's not an official encyclopedia, it's just a place that any fool can go and put their idea of what a word or phrase means on it. For instance, I could go on there and say cherry pie was breakfast food made from soy and pumpkin seeds. Does that make it a true fact? Noooo. That just means some idiot out there thinks so. Please don't take what the Wikipedia says to be fact.
- 23,800
- Philippines
My 0.02 cents (damn depreciation!):
Am still testing "skidpad" numbers on a variety of cars, and I need help and suggestions on what stock lateral-g's each car can pull. As I said, I've matched Protege MP3 numbers with N3s with the Protege SP20 (okay, not an exact match), and now I've possibly matched Ford Taurus SHO numbers with N3s. N2s don't seem to be realistic, as on N2s, the maximum lateral-g's it can pull in a turn is about 5/6ths of the way to 1g, or around 83%, and on N3s, it seems around 86-90%. Lateral skidpad numbers for the SHO are around 86%. Economy tires are understandably crapulent, with about 2/3rds of 1g or 66%, entirely unrealistic for any modern road car.
SH's provide merely a shade over 1g on these stock street cars, so it's possible that Tuner Cars would come with them. But, yes, supercars would come with treaded tires, so N3s are likely. Am going to dig up lateral g numbers for some really fast production models (Corvettes and Vipers) and some "race-cars-for-the-road" and try it out, but the gymkhana track might not be big enough.
I think the numbers will point to JTSnooks being correct, that all cars are modelled to provide stock performance on N-tires... but it would seem all of them are on N3s.
Does anyone know the skidpad numbers of a wretchedly horrid handling car so we can get this out of the way? If we could skidpad a Fiat Panda and compare it to stock numbers, I could get back to driving!
Am going to try the Prius, also, as I KNOW that comes with wretched tires.
Am still testing "skidpad" numbers on a variety of cars, and I need help and suggestions on what stock lateral-g's each car can pull. As I said, I've matched Protege MP3 numbers with N3s with the Protege SP20 (okay, not an exact match), and now I've possibly matched Ford Taurus SHO numbers with N3s. N2s don't seem to be realistic, as on N2s, the maximum lateral-g's it can pull in a turn is about 5/6ths of the way to 1g, or around 83%, and on N3s, it seems around 86-90%. Lateral skidpad numbers for the SHO are around 86%. Economy tires are understandably crapulent, with about 2/3rds of 1g or 66%, entirely unrealistic for any modern road car.
SH's provide merely a shade over 1g on these stock street cars, so it's possible that Tuner Cars would come with them. But, yes, supercars would come with treaded tires, so N3s are likely. Am going to dig up lateral g numbers for some really fast production models (Corvettes and Vipers) and some "race-cars-for-the-road" and try it out, but the gymkhana track might not be big enough.
I think the numbers will point to JTSnooks being correct, that all cars are modelled to provide stock performance on N-tires... but it would seem all of them are on N3s.
Does anyone know the skidpad numbers of a wretchedly horrid handling car so we can get this out of the way? If we could skidpad a Fiat Panda and compare it to stock numbers, I could get back to driving!
Am going to try the Prius, also, as I KNOW that comes with wretched tires.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Testing done. JTSnooks is correct.
Economy cars:
A Prius on N3 tires can achieve near 1 gravity (1g) constant lateral acceleration on the skidpad in the gymkhana, which is not possible in real life on stock tires (RL is 0.71g). On N1 tires, a steady turn levels out at around 5/6ths of 1g in the meter. Hence N1 is stock.
Sporty Cars
A Hyundai Tiburon (stock .8g) maintains almost 1g lateral on N3s, but apparently around .85g on N2s and around .7g on N1s. N2s appear to be the stock option. (Possibly also for RSX, Protege and Celica, etc...)
Sports Cars/Super Cars
A Dodge Viper (stock1.04g) maintains ONLY .8 lateral g's with N1 tires, and .95g with N2 tires. On N3's, it does over 1g. N3s are definitely stock on the high end recent vintage cars.
This is tested on the gymkhana skidpad, which seems to be a bit over 200 ft in diameter, which is just about the same as R&T uses for testing. Figures for stock cars come from R&T.
Any further testing for "Fastest Road Car" ought to be done on N3s.
I believe that reports of N1s giving the closest to real-life lap times in sports cars may be attributed to the fact that GT isn't perfect and that you are still much braver in GT than in real-life, no matter how much you try to compensate.
Economy cars:
A Prius on N3 tires can achieve near 1 gravity (1g) constant lateral acceleration on the skidpad in the gymkhana, which is not possible in real life on stock tires (RL is 0.71g). On N1 tires, a steady turn levels out at around 5/6ths of 1g in the meter. Hence N1 is stock.
Sporty Cars
A Hyundai Tiburon (stock .8g) maintains almost 1g lateral on N3s, but apparently around .85g on N2s and around .7g on N1s. N2s appear to be the stock option. (Possibly also for RSX, Protege and Celica, etc...)
Sports Cars/Super Cars
A Dodge Viper (stock1.04g) maintains ONLY .8 lateral g's with N1 tires, and .95g with N2 tires. On N3's, it does over 1g. N3s are definitely stock on the high end recent vintage cars.
This is tested on the gymkhana skidpad, which seems to be a bit over 200 ft in diameter, which is just about the same as R&T uses for testing. Figures for stock cars come from R&T.
Any further testing for "Fastest Road Car" ought to be done on N3s.
I believe that reports of N1s giving the closest to real-life lap times in sports cars may be attributed to the fact that GT isn't perfect and that you are still much braver in GT than in real-life, no matter how much you try to compensate. - 79
In the racing industry there are many rules and regulations.JTSnooks
One thing be careful who you call a fool. If there is anyone here who knows anything about sport compact drag racing then read this. I have met many of the sport compact drag racers and even gone to there house. I know people such as Gary gardella, Ara Arslanian, Lisa Kubo, the list goes on. So before you call someone a fool better know who they are. Another thing, in street class fwd 2 years ago a very good friend of mine and I put together what was the fastest street fwd drag car in NJ the record has been broken since then but if you dont believe me check the red civic hatch lower on the page. The owner being Ronald Sudol, I myslef am John Pierro. Its dated 1/15/03
http://www.nhraimport.com/2003/news/janrevvedup.html
The car officially went 10.55 at 141MPH in the quarter mile.
I don't know anyone on this site and I don't call anyone a fool. So in regards to understanding cars, the business, racing and working on them professionally for a living, I don't underestimate anyone. My friend and I built that car from the ground up. It was gutted and built. While most bystanders watch I am in the racers trailers. If I have an opinion on what is a road car or not I do have a very inside perspective of both ends of the world. Thank to whom ever reads this. I respect everyones opinions I just don't like to be called a fool.
- 1,436
Umm, I didn't call you a fool. I said any fool can put whatever they want on the Wickipedia. In fact, if anything I called myself a fool. Read carefully:
"It's not an official encyclopedia, it's just a place that any fool can go and put their idea of what a word or phrase means on it. For instance, I could go on there and say cherry pie was breakfast food made from soy and pumpkin seeds."
Nowhere did I say someone who QUOTES the Wikipedia is a fool, although it may have been implied unintentionally. I was only attempting to make sure that you and others understood that the Wikipedia is not to be used as fact, but rather is a collection of random people's ideas on a subject. I don't understand why you gave all your background information unless it was to prove you aren't a fool, which I never called you. The only way my comments could be taken as calling you a fool is if you were the one who wrote the definition in the Wikipedia, in which case when you quoted it you were merely quoting yourself and your opinion of what sports car racing is. I hope that's not the case.
And as for the tire testing, great job, Niky! I had been wondering what tires simulated the cars best and hadn't seen any really good tests on them, so it's great to have some more definite results. Interesting, however, that the tire types vary between cars. I'm thinking as far as definitions go, perhaps N1=economy cheap crappy skinny tires (obviously), N2=all-season good tires, N3=high-performance "summer only" tires. But that's more semantics than anything else, although it might help in figuring out what tires to use on what car Great job
"It's not an official encyclopedia, it's just a place that any fool can go and put their idea of what a word or phrase means on it. For instance, I could go on there and say cherry pie was breakfast food made from soy and pumpkin seeds."
Nowhere did I say someone who QUOTES the Wikipedia is a fool, although it may have been implied unintentionally. I was only attempting to make sure that you and others understood that the Wikipedia is not to be used as fact, but rather is a collection of random people's ideas on a subject. I don't understand why you gave all your background information unless it was to prove you aren't a fool, which I never called you. The only way my comments could be taken as calling you a fool is if you were the one who wrote the definition in the Wikipedia, in which case when you quoted it you were merely quoting yourself and your opinion of what sports car racing is. I hope that's not the case.
And as for the tire testing, great job, Niky! I had been wondering what tires simulated the cars best and hadn't seen any really good tests on them, so it's great to have some more definite results. Interesting, however, that the tire types vary between cars. I'm thinking as far as definitions go, perhaps N1=economy cheap crappy skinny tires (obviously), N2=all-season good tires, N3=high-performance "summer only" tires. But that's more semantics than anything else, although it might help in figuring out what tires to use on what car
Great job - 94
A discussion that's been had on another forum but might apply here:
How many cars can be bought for the same price (or less) as the BMW M5 and beat it around the Nurburgring Nordschleife?
Assuming both cars are stock and both cars are running the same tires, and excluding prize cars with no price tag, I'd wager it's a very short list. The price range includes a lot of cars though, as it's worth about 117,000 cr in the NA version.
The flip side of that is, the BMW M5 is one of the fastest production cars in the game, stock. Something to consider. I don't know if that's what was meant in the title "The fastest ROAD car in GT4", however.
Peace.
How many cars can be bought for the same price (or less) as the BMW M5 and beat it around the Nurburgring Nordschleife?
Assuming both cars are stock and both cars are running the same tires, and excluding prize cars with no price tag, I'd wager it's a very short list. The price range includes a lot of cars though, as it's worth about 117,000 cr in the NA version.
The flip side of that is, the BMW M5 is one of the fastest production cars in the game, stock. Something to consider. I don't know if that's what was meant in the title "The fastest ROAD car in GT4", however.
Peace.
- 1,143
I think in one of the write ups someone was testing high performance sedans (including the M5) at the 'ring and they also ran a Viper. And the Viper was faster by just a few seconds.
Maybe something like the Motor Sport Elise or Spirra could beat it.
Maybe something like the Motor Sport Elise or Spirra could beat it.
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
Has anyone in this thread mentioned the concept of judging cars on a less objective level?
I know that would be odd and "wrong" in some senses but I just can't help think about it.
This is all coming from my recently "re-found" interest in the RUFs. 👍
Specifically, the RGT and the BTR.
Both with the exact same setup.
Weight reduction stage 3, racing brakes, semi-racing suspension, oil change, and wheels of choice.
Both cars handle like dreams in that condition and both of them are in that perfect street car power to weight range of approximately 2.800.
They aren't necessarily the "fastest" road cars in the game, but they really are monsters.
I've also found that for the level of tuning used both of them have amazing increases in potential lap times.
On a side note...
Will you all tell me if the RGT can have a turbo applied?
If you will, please do so.
I don't think it can.
That's a shame too... Just a turbo stage 1 would be great.
Still though, the BTR is always there and it does have a turbo.
Anyway, I was just trying to mention that the RUFs are amazing in a competition that suits them. 👍
Same goes for the skylines.
Problem is, PD has so much respect for the skyline that they pretty much make every level of "street car racing" domain for a GT-R domination.
I know that would be odd and "wrong" in some senses but I just can't help think about it.
This is all coming from my recently "re-found" interest in the RUFs. 👍
Specifically, the RGT and the BTR.
Both with the exact same setup.
Weight reduction stage 3, racing brakes, semi-racing suspension, oil change, and wheels of choice.
Both cars handle like dreams in that condition and both of them are in that perfect street car power to weight range of approximately 2.800.
They aren't necessarily the "fastest" road cars in the game, but they really are monsters.
I've also found that for the level of tuning used both of them have amazing increases in potential lap times.
On a side note...
Will you all tell me if the RGT can have a turbo applied?
If you will, please do so.
I don't think it can.
That's a shame too... Just a turbo stage 1 would be great.
Still though, the BTR is always there and it does have a turbo.
Anyway, I was just trying to mention that the RUFs are amazing in a competition that suits them. 👍
Same goes for the skylines.
Problem is, PD has so much respect for the skyline that they pretty much make every level of "street car racing" domain for a GT-R domination.
- 1,436
I've seen the cars compared on a non-objective level. I agree the RUFs are very fast cars. For the same amount of money a BTR is faster around a track than an M5 if you know how to set it up. However, are you talking about stock comparisons (since the ones you mentioned aren't stock) or fully-modded comparisons? Or are you talking about certain specific modifications, in which case that's not really a fair comparison as some cars benefit more from different modifications Fully-modded they can't compete with the big hitters (R390, Viper, Zonda, Speed 12), but in stock form they are pretty fast. If you'd like to run some completely stock laps comparing them to some of the fastest stock non-modified cars in the game feel free. Of course you'll probably want to set up the car's suspensions and stuff since the RUFs handle pretty crazy stock
Fully-modded they can't compete with the big hitters (R390, Viper, Zonda, Speed 12), but in stock form they are pretty fast. If you'd like to run some completely stock laps comparing them to some of the fastest stock non-modified cars in the game feel free. Of course you'll probably want to set up the car's suspensions and stuff since the RUFs handle pretty crazy stock
- 23,800
- Philippines
That's not crazy... that's entertainment!
And yes, I agree about the tires... After a few more tests on crappy/not so crappy cars, I figure N2s are the equivalent of four-season tires, and N3s mostly summer tires. A Saleen is pretty good around the skidpad on N2s, but N3s numbers-match it, so N3s it is from now on. (on N1s a Saleen can only maintain sustained .8-.85 g or so on the 200-ft... crappy, huh?)
The Viper is much faster in B-Spec, but with my average driving, it is much harder to get a good time out of it than the M5. On slower courses, the M5 beats it, on courses with longer radius turns, the Viper will rule.
A Motor Sports Elise may beat them at the track, but in straightline speed, it gives up a lot of time. And speed is very important in a Nurburg lap. Worse-handling cars can always make up six to ten seconds on a nimbler car by outdragging them down the home straight. Even more if the top speed of one is 150mph and below, and the other is a 200mph monster.
Fully modded brings up a pretty predicament... some cars, when fully modified, are all-out racecars, but some are merely just very fast streetcars (same argument as before, I know). Even putting a cap on cost of modification would not work, as a cap at the price of the best streetcars in the game would put it at around 700,000-1,000,000 Cr.
Hmmm... wanna start arguing over what modifications are street-legal... but considering street-trim 'Vettes' and Skylines are running around 700-800 hp, I think pretty much anything goes.
And yes, I agree about the tires... After a few more tests on crappy/not so crappy cars, I figure N2s are the equivalent of four-season tires, and N3s mostly summer tires. A Saleen is pretty good around the skidpad on N2s, but N3s numbers-match it, so N3s it is from now on. (on N1s a Saleen can only maintain sustained .8-.85 g or so on the 200-ft... crappy, huh?)
spykerdriver
The Viper is much faster in B-Spec, but with my average driving, it is much harder to get a good time out of it than the M5. On slower courses, the M5 beats it, on courses with longer radius turns, the Viper will rule.
A Motor Sports Elise may beat them at the track, but in straightline speed, it gives up a lot of time. And speed is very important in a Nurburg lap. Worse-handling cars can always make up six to ten seconds on a nimbler car by outdragging them down the home straight. Even more if the top speed of one is 150mph and below, and the other is a 200mph monster.
Fully modded brings up a pretty predicament... some cars, when fully modified, are all-out racecars, but some are merely just very fast streetcars (same argument as before, I know). Even putting a cap on cost of modification would not work, as a cap at the price of the best streetcars in the game would put it at around 700,000-1,000,000 Cr.
Hmmm... wanna start arguing over what modifications are street-legal
... but considering street-trim 'Vettes' and Skylines are running around 700-800 hp, I think pretty much anything goes.
- 1,436
By looking at the little g-meter at the bottom of the screen I'm guessing he just turns and tries to hold as steady of a line around the skidpad as possible, then estimates the g's from that.
And by the way, there are 1000+hp Vipers that are completely street legal So I'm not sure what else in the game could make them illegal unless maybe you messed with the suspension too much or something...made it too low? I dunno. In fact, I bet a Viper will make a lot more than that if you open up the exhaust and make it non-street legal. But anyway, that's a little off-topic. I think you have to either do zero modifications or full modifications in the interest of fairness. Or, you could match up all their power/weight ratios, but then any suspension tuning would pretty much make them nearly equal other than their weight distributions, aerodynamics, and centers of gravity. I personally prefer the fully-modded approach, because mods are allowed in every race in the game, so finding out the best one stock is somewhat pointless.
I'm guessing he just turns and tries to hold as steady of a line around the skidpad as possible, then estimates the g's from that.And by the way, there are 1000+hp Vipers that are completely street legal
So I'm not sure what else in the game could make them illegal unless maybe you messed with the suspension too much or something...made it too low? I dunno. In fact, I bet a Viper will make a lot more than that if you open up the exhaust and make it non-street legal. But anyway, that's a little off-topic. I think you have to either do zero modifications or full modifications in the interest of fairness. Or, you could match up all their power/weight ratios, but then any suspension tuning would pretty much make them nearly equal other than their weight distributions, aerodynamics, and centers of gravity. I personally prefer the fully-modded approach, because mods are allowed in every race in the game, so finding out the best one stock is somewhat pointless.
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
First off, JTsnooks... Please try to break that up into more than 1 paragraph. My eyes would appreciate it.
Next...
I suppose the G meter at the bottom could give you an idea but I really don't think specifics would be possible.
Estimates are all I can imagine a person getting from the G meter...
It only shows two points on the scale in each direction (1 & 2). This is true for all cars- regardless of the car, the numbers shown on the G meter are the same.
I just tested a skyline "nur" and a PD F1.
Luckily there is still hope, in that I was able to pin the g meter at "2" with the F1 and only go to about 1.? with the skyline on racing mediums.
So atleast we know the racecars are capable of hgher Gs than the meter will show.
Anyway,
One thing about this was me being naive lol.
I use the "simple" display with no "map" display as well.
Kinda forgot about the G meter.
Well, that's it from me for now.
I'm headed out for a drink, back in about 2 hours.
Talk to you all later if there's anything new up.
If not, oh well.
Btw, just a subject for discussion while I'm gone...
The Z06... Has anyone given this a shot at full mod with R5s on the ring?
It would be nice to see how the z06 stacks up against the viper.
Just interested to know since I've seen so much talk about the viper.
Plus, I haven't had the chance to fully upgrade either, none the less test both in that form.
Next...
I suppose the G meter at the bottom could give you an idea but I really don't think specifics would be possible.
Estimates are all I can imagine a person getting from the G meter...
It only shows two points on the scale in each direction (1 & 2). This is true for all cars- regardless of the car, the numbers shown on the G meter are the same.
I just tested a skyline "nur" and a PD F1.
Luckily there is still hope, in that I was able to pin the g meter at "2" with the F1 and only go to about 1.? with the skyline on racing mediums.
So atleast we know the racecars are capable of hgher Gs than the meter will show.
Anyway,
One thing about this was me being naive lol.
I use the "simple" display with no "map" display as well.
Kinda forgot about the G meter.
Well, that's it from me for now.
I'm headed out for a drink, back in about 2 hours.
Talk to you all later if there's anything new up.
If not, oh well.
Btw, just a subject for discussion while I'm gone...
The Z06... Has anyone given this a shot at full mod with R5s on the ring?
It would be nice to see how the z06 stacks up against the viper.
Just interested to know since I've seen so much talk about the viper.
Plus, I haven't had the chance to fully upgrade either, none the less test both in that form.
- 23,800
- Philippines
In stock form, the ZO6 loses, but fully modded, that WOULD be interesting...
I use the G-meter on the skidpad in the Gymkhana. I've tried estimating its size via measuring how many 180-degree turns it takes to traverse it in an '06 Eclipse (40 ft turning circle) and how long it takes to brake across it from 60mph. Hardly scientific, I know. But various tests like these point to the skidpad in the Gymkhana being around or over 200 ft in diameter. Fair enough.
Testing on the skidpad with the G-meter is by eyeball. Near as I can figure .95 g is where the ball is hitting the 1g line, but not on it, .80 is 4/5ths of the way from 0 to 1, .70 is near 2/3rds (.66 is exact)... that's why I'm using crappy cars, as I know they can't maintain a turn at over .8g on the skidpad.
I try to maintain a circle inside the skidpad (not easy with a DS2) and when I hit a constant speed and turning radius that keeps me inside it, I note the lateral g's. I also run the car around and see how many g's it can pull in a wider turn. Bad cars are good for this, as if they can't maintain more than .85 g on the skidpad, they can't maintain it anywhere else without washing out into understeer, either.
Looked all over for other tests like this before I did it, because I didn't want to duplicate anything, and I was disappointed to find that nobody bothered to test poor-handling cars, as they would show the most difference on the g-meter with different tires. For example, a first-gen Prius can do almost 1g in a constant turn on N3s. Hence, it doesn't come on N3s.
The Viper can't maintain any constant non-wash-out turn at more than .95-.99 or so g's on N2s, while it makes a tiny bit over 1g on the skidpad with N3s, so I'm pretty sure it comes on those, as it does 1.04g's on the 200ft in real-life.
These tests are not completely accurate, but they're a good estimate.
I use the G-meter on the skidpad in the Gymkhana. I've tried estimating its size via measuring how many 180-degree turns it takes to traverse it in an '06 Eclipse (40 ft turning circle) and how long it takes to brake across it from 60mph. Hardly scientific, I know. But various tests like these point to the skidpad in the Gymkhana being around or over 200 ft in diameter. Fair enough.
Testing on the skidpad with the G-meter is by eyeball. Near as I can figure .95 g is where the ball is hitting the 1g line, but not on it, .80 is 4/5ths of the way from 0 to 1, .70 is near 2/3rds (.66 is exact)... that's why I'm using crappy cars, as I know they can't maintain a turn at over .8g on the skidpad.
I try to maintain a circle inside the skidpad (not easy with a DS2) and when I hit a constant speed and turning radius that keeps me inside it, I note the lateral g's. I also run the car around and see how many g's it can pull in a wider turn. Bad cars are good for this, as if they can't maintain more than .85 g on the skidpad, they can't maintain it anywhere else without washing out into understeer, either.
Looked all over for other tests like this before I did it, because I didn't want to duplicate anything, and I was disappointed to find that nobody bothered to test poor-handling cars, as they would show the most difference on the g-meter with different tires. For example, a first-gen Prius can do almost 1g in a constant turn on N3s. Hence, it doesn't come on N3s.
The Viper can't maintain any constant non-wash-out turn at more than .95-.99 or so g's on N2s, while it makes a tiny bit over 1g on the skidpad with N3s, so I'm pretty sure it comes on those, as it does 1.04g's on the 200ft in real-life.
These tests are not completely accurate, but they're a good estimate.
- Status
