The fastest ROAD car in GT4!

[sunnybwoy]

I've been working on this for the past couple month, a couple of times a week. I would take a stock car in arcade, no power or weight modifications, STOCK form, and throw it around Tsukuba, a track that i feel is simple but very technical at the same time (oxymoron, lol), and also because it only takes a minute to go around it. This track reveals any handling flaws in the vehicles, which was my goal. I however did not really get into the supercars yet (Nardo, s2k gt1, etc.), but will update it when i do. I basically took around 3-5 laps to get the best time i could, and then put it into my excel file, with a little description. I'm sure a lot of these times could be shortened by a bit, but overall it was relatively close to the vehicles limit, within 5 laps. I hope this is some help to others, when picking cars. This feels like Best Motoring, lol.


Car(N2 Tires, comfort) Tsukuba

NSX Type R 2002 1'04.638 extremely controllable, tossable

NSX Type R 1992 1'07.310 good response, lacks power

NSX 1990 1'08.657 lacks power, floaty, body roll

Acura NSX 2004 1'07.672 great improvement from 1990, good for an Acura version

NSX Type S 2001 1'06.261 very very responsive

NSX Type S Zero 1997 1'07.286 Loves to slide and whip around, very very controlable sliding, however tire wear would definitely be a factor, fun for hotlapping,

Amuse S2000 R1 1'05.009 Extremely Tossable, and recoverable, great acceleration out of turns

BMW M3 CSL 1'05.826 Way too much understeer, not very fun to drive

Subaru Spec C WRX 1'07.068 Typical 4WD Understeer, but Bites into the turns very well, great braking.

BMW M5 1'04.699 Super Understeer, easy drifter, hp is whats keeping it going quick.

Ford Mustang GT 1'09.126 balanced, but not fun, boring to drive.

Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1'06.411 fast, fun, easy to oversteer but recover too.

Dodge Viper SRT10 1'05.214 Handles like Vette, only faster.

Honda S2000 2004 1'08.095 Amazing handling, almost wot before apex

Nissan 350Z(z33) 2003 1'06.652 Surprisingly balanced, and oversteer when u want to punch it.

Toyota MR2 GTS 1997 1'08.936 so bloody snappy, snap oversteer, cant let go of throttle, must left foot brake while on throttle otherwise Snaps

Infinity G35 Coupe 2003 1'09.247 too heavy, hates to turn in, just a fat ass.

Toyota Supra RZ 1997 1'08.755 Fun Oversteering drifter, tires don’t hook up until just before 2-3 shift on WOT

Ruf Yellowbird 1987 1'06.275 TIME CAN BE IMPROVED A LOT, damn fun car, just brake right on time

Lotus Esprit 2002 1'06.017 fun car, hard to break loose.

Austin Martin DB7 2000 1'10.757 Absolute Piece of Garbage to drive, non responsive, doesn’t understeer or oversteer, but just feels like it understeers though, odd.

Austin Martin DB9 2003 1'05.927 fast if driven without sliding or understeering, must take turns at perfect speeds. Doesn’t feel fast, but the results are shown.

Austin Martin Vanquish 1'06.706 Too Much Understeer

TVR T350C 2003 1'06.625 Oversteering fun, just be careful.

TVR Speed 6 2000 1'07.168 MAJOR understeer, just really really awful.

TVR Speed 12 2000 1'06.932 TOOO MUCH POWER, DOES NOT CONNECT EVEN IN 4TH GEAR!!!!!!!!!! Lol, even half throttle doesn’t work from 1-3!!!!!!!!

Skyline R34 GTR NUR'02 1'06.477 Don’t push it too much, like any other 4wd vehicle.

Ruf RGT 2000 1'04.362 AMAZING VEHICLE, holds soo well after braking, just completely grips out of the apex, common advantage of RR cars.

Ruf BTR 1986 1'05.239 Consider a Yellowbird with less hp, a lot less, yes, that’s right, finally, BALANCE, well, balance for a car with old school 930 series sway control arms.

BMW Z4 2003 1'11.173 Too Slow, nothing compared to s2000.

M3 GTR 2003 1'05.195 Great Car, the time shows the difference of power between itself and the csl, must share the same suspension, just the power difference cuts about 0.6 seconds.


Honda ITR 1999 1'11.802 very grippy fwd car, hides understeer quite surprisingly.

SubLegacyB4-2.0gts-B 03 1'08.230 very very controlling, understeer was unnoticeable, and hence turned in a nice time. Good car at the limit.

Nissan Silvia R Aero 1999 1'07.698 Feels like the best derivitive of the Silvia series, the culmantion of years of drift cars, and drift cars need balance, and hence can be easily driven with grip.

Skyline r32gtr vspecII '94 1'07.020 When driven at the limit, u MUST know the correct gears for the turn, otherwise its light light understeer that'll take u off the road quickly.

Mazda RX7 TypeRZ 1996 1'06.945 loves to oversteer, but keep it powersliding only, very easy to manuver.

NSXR LM Roadcar '59.625 What more can I say, a RACE car for the roads, but technically,not a race car, hehehe.

Nissan R390 GT1 Roadcar 1'01.824 Very stable car, likes to kick rear easily in lower gears however, Best to change gears at 500rpms before redline, I think cuz of turbo issues, its faster that way.

Saleen S7 2002 1'02.666 Don't get it wrong, this IS the devils car, and the time suits it perfectly. Handling sucks when decelerating, however at throttle, it grips nicely.

Pagani ZondaC12S 7.3'02 1'02.965 Didn’t expect it to blow me away in terms of time, the driving didn’t show that it would, but damn, it must be because of the viseral acceleration.

Ford GT 2002 1'03.993 Fast, Fast, FAST acceleration, brake very early, don’t rip out of the turns, wait till car is almost str8 before WOT, feather out of turn, then WOT once str8ened

 

[niky]

BMW M5 1'04.699 Super Understeer, easy drifter, hp is whats keeping it going quick.

Ford Mustang GT 1'09.126 balanced, but not fun, boring to drive.

Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1'06.411 fast, fun, easy to oversteer but recover too.

Dodge Viper SRT10 1'05.214 Handles like Vette, only faster.

TVR Speed 6 2000 1'07.168 MAJOR understeer, just really really awful.

TVR Speed 12 2000 1'06.932 TOOO MUCH POWER, DOES NOT CONNECT EVEN IN 4TH GEAR!!!!!!!!!! Lol, even half throttle doesn’t work from 1-3!!!!!!!!

SubLegacyB4-2.0gts-B 03 1'08.230 very very controlling, understeer was unnoticeable, and hence turned in a nice time. Good car at the limit.

NSXR LM Roadcar '59.625 What more can I say, a RACE car for the roads, but technically,not a race car, hehehe.

Nissan R390 GT1 Roadcar 1'01.824 Very stable car, likes to kick rear easily in lower gears however, Best to change gears at 500rpms before redline, I think cuz of turbo issues, its faster that way.

Saleen S7 2002 1'02.666 Don't get it wrong, this IS the devils car, and the time suits it perfectly. Handling sucks when decelerating, however at throttle, it grips nicely.

Pagani ZondaC12S 7.3'02 1'02.965 Didn’t expect it to blow me away in terms of time, the driving didn’t show that it would, but damn, it must be because of the viseral acceleration.

Ford GT 2002 1'03.993 Fast, Fast, FAST acceleration, brake very early, don’t rip out of the turns, wait till car is almost str8 before WOT, feather out of turn, then WOT once str8ened

Whew... you ought to put that in as a race report... SERIOUSLY, it's worth posting as a separate, just edit it to put the times in order.

Comments: I was disappointed in how you rated the M3 and M5 until I realized this was Tsukuba... I have no doubt that the M5 would feel very understeery on long radius turns as compared to others here... but in short turns, it feels sharp... and thank God other people are getting better times in this than in the Viper... it lends support to my feeling that the Viper just isn't as fast (B-Spec Bob thinks it is, but what does he know? )

Your assessment of the Americans is spot on with mine, except I feel the Vette is a better balanced car than the Viper. I suppose around a full-out track, the Viper is better than it is on twisty tracks.

I like the Subie Legacy 2.0, too... and the fact that it's so cheap makes it something of a performance bargain in GT.

Confirmed... the NSX LM is much faster than the Zonda. And around Autumn Ring, is much faster than the other Supercars. Still re-testing, but as I use Ghost Replays and the like to trim my line everytime I go out in each car, I don't expect any of them to be faster than the LM. And the NSX spins. It's so light and balanced, you can spin it more easily if you push it over the edge than any other "supercar".

The Zonda is very good on short twisty tracks, a little dull compared to driving the Ford GT (that power oversteer you're trying to avoid gets it to turn nicely). The Saleen on short tracks is ****ty, but I guess, it, like the Viper, loves long flowing tracks.

👍 Nice POST!

 

[mechman1979]

Christ, just realized you said you did the WHOLE LAP IN SIXTH GEAR... ...mad SKILLZ, yo! I ought to try that!!!



But the Cien was never developed to street spec. Like the C16, it was a wonderful look at a car they could have built in numbers but didn't... Top Gear actually drove the C16 concept, but then that's also different from a fully street-legal car. The TVR Speed 12 manages to be street legal and registered and still maintains its 800+++ hp power...

Now we're splitting hairs again... sorry. You're right, it was driven, but never tested to full speed.

One thing that sucks is that the Bugatti is nowhere in sight... now there's a silly monster I'd like to test.

You can't buy a TVR Speed 12 and drive one they don't make them readily available to be driven in the US. It was a car that was ahead of its time and never mas produced. I would love to see me proven wrong I love the car. On the other hand the any Zonda is made and driven along with being able to buy them. If there is to be a ruling on whether or not a car is a road car or not, How about we take a vote. I think to make all things fair I say the car has to be one that can be purchased and driven on highways. Not only that, that the car should be manufactured from the ground up and original, not derived from a race. The one other thing is that i would think that in order for it to be a street car it would have to be legal to drive in every country.I would appreciate feed back on this topic from people.

 

[niky]

Well, Tuscans are made BOTH as road cars and race cars. The Speed 12 is not for sale, but the solitary street trim version HAS been sold and is road-registered. All the others were made as race-cars from the beginning, and the street-car was already FINISHED when Trevor took a spin in it (figuratively or literally, I don't know. ) and decided it just wasn't right.

I agree that the concepts have no right to be called road cars, but homologation specials and one-offs produced to emissions and safety standards (let's not argue about WHOSE emission standards... ) should count. The most prevalent homologation special I know of would be the Lancer Evolution series. Unlike Subaru, Mitsubishi doesn't make producing AWD streetcars its primary motto, and your run of the mill Lancer has always been a 1.6 liter FF dog (their special editions are 1.6 MIVECs with 170hp, a far cry from the Evo). The Evo started out as merely a rally homologation issue that became so popular, it became a regular production model (albeit low volume) that is now seeing a boom in sales thanks to recent exposure to the US market. So race cars CAN be road cars, as long as they meet the requirements. Take the Zonda (which was developed as a road car first) and the R390 (which was developed as a race car first). Both are blisteringly fast, low-slung, and impractically small (two people only, very little luggage space). While one was developed for the road and the other for the track, who are we to say that they are that much different? The R390 could be bought and registered if the current keepers would consider selling it.

And being legal to drive in any country is difficult to define. For example, The Nissan Skyline is NOT legal in the US due to emissions, but CAN BE MADE legal in nearly stock form merely through reprogramming. It will never be legal without extensive mechanical modifications in my country, as ALL RIGHT HAND DRIVE VEHICLES are ILLEGAL here in the Philippines. The McLaren F1 was not legal in the US initially, and it took some of the first owners a lot of money to make it legal. And if we get down to itty-bitty details, the Nissan SE-R (SR20DE) B14 was legal in the US, but NOT in California. Almost everything is illegal in Cali... except marijuana.

So let's put it that any car can be made to pass emission standards, not all "road cars" can pass safety standards in every country. There are some cars developed FOR the road that are sold in volume that will never be legal in the US.

So, the answer should be. It can be a racecar developed to street-spec. It should at least be road-legal in its current market. It should be sold/available for sale and there should be registered versions on the road.

 

[JTSnooks]

So far I've only seen the cars tested on Autumn Ring and Tsukaba, both of which are relatively flat, short/twisty tracks. I wouldn't use either of them for supercar testing as they really don't show anything of how the car will handle on real roads. I much prefer tracks like El Capitan, Sarthe I or II, the Nurburgring, etc. Flat tracks are fine, but comparisons of cars shouldn't be based solely on flat tracks, as some can handle bumps, jumps, curbs, and large-radius sweeping turns better than others. The Nurburgring is a perfect track for testing these cars, but it's difficult and very time-consuming to get consistent times from car to car. El Capitan is pretty good, and isn't too long. Sarthe can be long, but it's not as bad as the Nurburgring, and Sarthe II allows top speed to come into play, while Sarthe I is all about acceleration. I usually use these three tracks for fine-tuning my cars and comparing their overall performance. Plus, I can't stand Tsukaba

 

[sunnybwoy]

In this game, the best track for testing these supercars would have to be Grand Valley Speedway, its long, so u can open em up, and it has its technical sections too, so u can test the full braking before hairpins, etc. I'll Start on that one next. BTW, Tsukuba is an amazing track that takes skills to master, it may be frustrating to race on at first cuz it seems soo simple, but really isnt, but it is a great track, and heck, it's used by Best Motoring too.

 

[darkwind]

didnt like the new vipers so i bought a "classic" gts coupe, maxed out you can go 260mph easy, the car can hold a steady 250 on stock gearing

The GTS that I have, well, one of the GTS' I have, I got it to run an 8.4xx on the 0-400m, and the car tops out at 265 MPH. Best off all, never bought a tranny upgrade .

The Cien is fast, got it to do 300MPH before.

But here it is, the fastest car in the entire game... The FTO GP Version R. Ok so it's not the fastest. But how many other 200MPH FF cars do you know of that handle almost perfectly?

 

[niky]

The GTS that I have, well, one of the GTS' I have, I got it to run an 8.4xx on the 0-400m, and the car tops out at 265 MPH. Best off all, never bought a tranny upgrade .

The Cien is fast, got it to do 300MPH before.

But here it is, the fastest car in the entire game... The FTO GP Version R. Ok so it's not the fastest. But how many other 200MPH FF cars do you know of that handle almost perfectly?

(scrambling to the PS2 to start modding the crap out of my FF cars...)

 

[Kent]

Take the Zonda (which has NEVER been raced)

Indeed, and this is the most realistic drawing I have ever put down on paper.

Just kidding with you, but please do take note of the contents of this picture. 👍

Btw, back in the morning when I've got some time to really post.

 

[niky]

Indeed, and this is the most realistic drawing I have ever put down on paper.

Just kidding with you, but please do take note of the contents of this picture. 👍

Btw, back in the morning when I've got some time to really post.

Ah... I'm getting really OWNED in this thread... ...that's why i like to write articles, I get time to research before I say anything. Post modified for you, kind sir!

 

[EJ20TMAN]

Well, Tuscans are made BOTH as road cars and race cars. The Speed 12 is not for sale, but the solitary street trim version HAS been sold and is road-registered. All the others were made as race-cars from the beginning, and the street-car was already FINISHED when Trevor took a spin in it (figuratively or literally, I don't know. ) and decided it just wasn't right.

I agree that the concepts have no right to be called road cars, but homologation specials and one-offs produced to emissions and safety standards (let's not argue about WHOSE emission standards... ) should count. The most prevalent homologation special I know of would be the Lancer Evolution series. Unlike Subaru, Mitsubishi doesn't make producing AWD streetcars its primary motto, and your run of the mill Lancer has always been a 1.6 liter FF dog (their special editions are 1.6 MIVECs with 170hp, a far cry from the Evo). The Evo started out as merely a rally homologation issue that became so popular, it became a regular production model (albeit low volume) that is now seeing a boom in sales thanks to recent exposure to the US market.

Id have to disagree with the EVO series being a homologation special (u could say the Evo RS cars are) The early EVO's are mearly a E39A Galant VR-4 (JDM) Drivetrain in a Lancer body (Evo 1's only have 7kw than a normal VR-4 and 14 less than a VR-4 RS/EVO. Of the early EVO's they made over 5k each and evo7 and 8 over 30k each. Same as to the early Subarus, They made the WRX from the Original Legacy RS. The only real homologation specails in terms of rally car are the Lancia Deltas, pug 205 T16, toyota GT4 RC, EVO RS's and WRX STI RA's

 

[~Sp33~]

Indeed, and this is the most realistic drawing I have ever put down on paper.

Just kidding with you, but please do take note of the contents of this picture. 👍

Btw, back in the morning when I've got some time to really post.

maybe (by the looks of the picture) he zonda should never have been made for racing

 

[JTSnooks]

Grand Valley is another perfectly flat track that never upsets the handling balance or the cars. To really compare them you need to see how they handle mid-corner bumps, hitting sharp curbing, landing jumps (although I'd never jump my supercar in real life), and all that junk. Some cars may be killer on a flat track like Tsukaba, Grand Valley, etc, but may be uncontrollable on the Nurburgring, Sarthe, or Seattle. Any car can take a flat track well if you just crank up the stiffness like crazy, but if you then take it to a bumpy track all of a sudden it will be way back in last place because it won't stay on the road or put the power down. A little variety's all I'm calling for

 

[niky]

Id have to disagree with the EVO series being a homologation special (u could say the Evo RS cars are) The early EVO's are mearly a E39A Galant VR-4 (JDM) Drivetrain in a Lancer body (Evo 1's only have 7kw than a normal VR-4 and 14 less than a VR-4 RS/EVO. Of the early EVO's they made over 5k each and evo7 and 8 over 30k each. Same as to the early Subarus, They made the WRX from the Original Legacy RS. The only real homologation specails in terms of rally car are the Lancia Deltas, pug 205 T16, toyota GT4 RC, EVO RS's and WRX STI RA's

Originally, the Evo wasn't meant for production, it was a one-off deal. It was a bloody brilliant idea, too. They brought it back due to enthusiast demand, and kept on producing them because people were buying them. Good for Mitsubishi that they kept building them.

maybe (by the looks of the picture) he zonda should never have been made for racing

 

[Kent]

I'm sure it was the Zonda Racer that drove itself off the road, not the driver or anything.

Also, sorry niky.
I didn't post that to "own" or anything like that.
I just thought you would like to see that picture as a reminder that none of us really know everything about these cars.

With that in mind, I would really like to see the discussion stay tight with the topic.
Ranting about whether or not the Evo is a homologated model, or why it is even sold in the first place, is just silly... Unless you're a Mitsubishi executive.

Now on that note of getting to the topic...
I think there have been some great points about the testing of various tracks. 👍
In fact, these concerns over the test track used are more valid than we may think.

If you look at the stock form of these cars and use only one track to test, the results will be skewed.
Take the R390 and the NSX LM.
If these cars were tested on a course like motegi, grand valley, the ring, etc... the test would always have the 550hp NSX LM winning.
However, on a course like grand valley east or Motorland there is no doubt in my mind that the R390 would suddenly present a great danger to the NSX's title of fastest car.

Now, that specific example is very specialized but serves its purpose well.
Can you all think of tracks that may skew results?

Laguna Seca is another track that may change the results of a test.
With "LS" there is great potential for a car with high downforce to move up in place simply due to cornering speeds.

The Cien with its pop-up spoiler might be able to do better on a course like that, where as the Zonda may be stuck with little to no downforce and end up doing much worse than you would expect.

To complicate the matter, those results may very well be turned around if you head to a course like the Ring where grip is just as important as engine power and PWR.

Of course, this is all just a rant ... Some of this may be way off base and if it is- I apologize.

Tell me what you all think. 👍

 

[sunnybwoy]

It all comes down to the drivers capabilites in the end, the nsx lm WILL always be faster than the R390, it's just, can the driver keep it grounded(which again, requires finesse). And btw, on el captain, the nsx lm is 3 seconds faster than the R390, and on GVS, the nsx is 4 seconds faster than the R390. I havent attempted nurburgring yet. I know both these cars fairly well, as they've been on my favorites list for well over 2 months, and I've used them very often. The R390 is a car you can just jump into for the first time ever and drive it like it has no limits, it makes the driver look like he has a lot of talent, perhaps the MOST balanced car in the game. The nsx however is a car that if you first jump into in, ur gonna spin out a lot. The nsx requires an exact modulation of the gas pedal (I'm talking about both vehicles equiped with N2 Comfort tires) on exiting an apex, it really really requires finesse to master and shave off times. With the R390, ur first lap could be your fastest, or should I say, you can't cut as much time as you progress through your time trial. The NSX on the other hand has extreme capabilites as you progress, keeping it flat through turns u braked too early for or ended up oversteering on, shaving .2 or more seconds on various turns, it IS a car that has a big payout when mastered. I feel the nsx is a far more rewarding car in that manner, and ofcourse, it's already faster.

 

[Kent]

Just a few points to make here...

1) It is the GT40, not the GT90.

2) Comfort tires on either of those cars is rediculus.

Comfort tires don't even come on real life M3s or Corvettes.
What in the world would make you think tires like that would end up on supercars of this caliber?

Test those cars with N3, S3 or some kind of racing tires.
In any case, make sure you try using tires that are matched to the car's performance.

Fact is, if you put horrible tires on any car, the car will handle like it is horrible.

 

[sunnybwoy]

1) I meant the r390, edited post.

2) Where did I mention that either car had horrible handling, besides, I doublt unless the Real Life m3 is a CSL(Semi-slicks), it would not come with N3 tires. I felt on sticking to using the N2 tires because that is the tire I perform all my comparisons with, to keep the field level. To me, it would appear that the N2 tires are like sport tires on cars, and the N3 are like R compounds, whereas the Econos are the regular All Seasonal tires.

3) RELAX!!!!

Just a few points to make here...

1) It is the GT40, not the GT90.

2) Comfort tires on either of those cars is rediculus.

Comfort tires don't even come on real life M3s or Corvettes.
What in the world would make you think tires like that would end up on supercars of this caliber?

Test those cars with N3, S3 or some kind of racing tires.
In any case, make sure you try using tires that are matched to the car's performance.

Fact is, if you put horrible tires on any car, the car will handle like it is horrible.

 

[Woolie Wool]

666hp Chevelle

W.W.S.D.

What would Satan drive?

 

[Dave A]

Kev's right, your testing cars all with the same crappy tyres which might seem to make it even, but it handicaps the supercars a lot more than the sportscars, take the Speed 12 for example, keeping the sports tyres that comes with on makes a huge difference, the real car drives on the roads with performace tyres, so why not represent the car as it is in real life. It is a test of stock cars, as close to the real road versions after all. Putting worse tyres than the real car has on kind of defeats the purpose of doing that.

 

[Woolie Wool]

Well, Tuscans are made BOTH as road cars and race cars. The Speed 12 is not for sale, but the solitary street trim version HAS been sold and is road-registered. All the others were made as race-cars from the beginning, and the street-car was already FINISHED when Trevor took a spin in it (figuratively or literally, I don't know. ) and decided it just wasn't right.

Trevor Wilkinson, IIRC, is dead. TVR was owned by Peter Wheeler when the Speed 12 was built.

 

[Tornado]

Kev's right, your testing cars all with the same crappy tyres which might seem to make it even, but it handicaps the supercars a lot more than the sportscars, take the Speed 12 for example, keeping the sports tyres that comes with on makes a huge difference, the real car drives on the roads with performace tyres, so why not represent the car as it is in real life. It is a test of stock cars, as close to the real road versions after all. Putting worse tyres than the real car has on kind of defeats the purpose of doing that.

Very true. Cars like the Speed 12 and both of the R390's (there were at least 2, I believe), probably ran on tires that were slicks with grooves cut in them, like a new Mosler. In real life, most of the Supercars would come equipped with probably S2's or, in the more extreme cases, such as the R390, S3's.

Also, regarding the WRC issue: The Lancer Evo. was originally a Homologation special (not so much now though). As was the Impreza WRX STi. This is because they were produced in much smaller numbers than the normal cars (Lancer ES, Subaru Impreza 2.5). Also, the Lancia Delta (the one that atcually was a Lancia Delta) was not actually made for homologation. The Delta 4WD I would say wasn't either, because Lancia made them for 1-2 years after pulling out of WRC. The S4 and all other Group B cars do count, however, as only 200 of each of them were made.

 

[Woolie Wool]

The WRX STi is no longer a homologation car because its 2.5-liter engine is too large for the WRC.

 

[Dave A]

I thnik WRC rules allow you to use any engine in your range thats under 2 liters for the top class, it doesn't HAVE to be the engine that the car's based on uses.

 

[Kent]

1) I meant the r390, edited post.

2) Where did I mention that either car had horrible handling, besides, I doublt unless the Real Life m3 is a CSL(Semi-slicks), it would not come with N3 tires. I felt on sticking to using the N2 tires because that is the tire I perform all my comparisons with, to keep the field level. To me, it would appear that the N2 tires are like sport tires on cars, and the N3 are like R compounds, whereas the Econos are the regular All Seasonal tires.

3) RELAX!!!!

You're telling me to relax with a defensive tone?

Go re-read my post, I never once said you "mentioned" anything.
All I did was correct the car name and make suggestions to help further a pursuit you showed interest in.

If my comment about "horrible tires = horrible handling" bothered you it would have been wiser to ask about it than get mad.

Getting on my case about that post was not cool.

And for the sake of discussing these tires...
Dude, I don't think we need to worry about deciding what each tire is- the game tells us.

Economy (N1) -"considers comfort and road noise"
Comfort (N2) -"high performance radials"
Road (N3) -"suitable for sports racing... featuring grip levels near that of a sports tire"

Just my opinion here, but...
Economy (N1)- Daihatsu Move, Toyota Starlet, Mercedes A 160...
Comfort (N2)- Chevy Corvette, TVR Tuscan, Toyota Supra, NSX...
Road (N3)- Jag XJ220, Zonda C12, RUF RGT, Mine's Skyline...

Even that list of cars stretches to include all of the road cars.

Go look at the pictures brought up with each tire type (N, S, R).
The "N" tires look exactly like what I've got on my toyota camry!
Do you really think a Jaguar XJ220 or Mines Skyline would have anything even close to tires like that?

The Jag and its info, including tire size (255/45ZR17 front / 345/35ZR-18 rear)
More Jag XJ220 info

With all that said...
I feel like there is a reason they included "Sports Tires" and "Racing Tires" on top of the "N" tires.

Sorry if we disagree.
But please feel free to continue using N tires for your racing and testing. 👍
I've gotta admit, it must take some serious skill to run those well.

 

[amp88]

Don't forget that the XJ220 also set a time of 7 minutes, 46 seconds at the Nurburgring. Sticky rubber indeed.

In the game, N grade tyres can be good if you want to assess the balance of the car, as you can probe the handling characteristics at lower speeds, using less of your reactions/brain to control the car and more to check out how it's going. However, I agree with Kent...N2 tyres are unrealistic for the upper echelon of cars in GT4. N3 tyres (or perhaps even S1s) are much more realistic, IMO.

A bit off topic, but I made a video earlier tonight with the 88C-V on different types of tyres to see just how great the change in grip levels and laptimes is and it was quite surprising to me. N3 tyres on the left, S3 tyres in the middle and R4 tyres on the right.

http://s55.yousendit.com/d.php?id=35LA9PNCFRS4W258FSMUNSCJOC

 

[niky]

Also, sorry niky.
I didn't post that to "own" or anything like that.
I just thought you would like to see that picture as a reminder that none of us really know everything about these cars.

Dude, none taken, really... ...You're right, nobody knows everything about these things. Sorry, man, it must hurt being the devil's advocate!

Trevor Wilkinson, IIRC, is dead. TVR was owned by Peter Wheeler when the Speed 12 was built.

Good point. See, Kent... that's what I mean by getting owned. I usually don't get this mixed up in discussions. Sorry, Woolie, I forgot that TVR was under Wheeler... and now they're under some Russian guy... and fifteen years from now I'll forget that when talking about that strange looking Sagaris thingy!

The WRX STi is no longer a homologation car because its 2.5-liter engine is too large for the WRC.

Yup. But everyone else still gets the cooking 2.0. The 2.5 liter version was developed SOLELY for the American market (And someone's going to OWN me again about that one, just wait and see! ) the rest of the world gets the 2.0, because we don't care about the damn displacement... just give us the power! The thing is, these pocket rockets didn't start out as serious roadcars. Like the Delta Integrale, the Evo was also produced through a period wherein Mitsubishi wasn't in rallying, although Mitsu just took a breather instead of quitting entirely (which Lancia did, in the end).

Again, without any more references that can get me in trouble... I think anything road-registerable (requisition seatbelts, signal lights, headlights, LOCAL emissions, etc.) goes. And that includes cars-developed-for-racing, which is the only reason I brought up Evos in the first place. I mean: how practical is a compact four door that guzzles gas? -agh! no flaming!- that's in comparison to the standard Lancer, which is a VERY good economy car with a teeny-tiny ...1.3 (horrible as that sounds, that one is fun) - 1.6 - 1.6 MIVEC (old Lancers, okay?)... engine.

Not all road-cars are practical, convenient or very useful as such, but they're still road-cars. Whether they're intentionally frugal, roomy, sporty or racy, they're still road cars.

N2 tires are all very well, but I think they're not realistic for supercars either. N3 at the least, and S1 at the most. One additional problem with the definition of "road tires" is that N-tires also don't last much longer than regular S-tires. In real-life, you could use one set of N-tires or S-tires (hard) for about four or five races, but in GT, ALL tires are pretty much useless after one race.

Another conundrum: Who keeps their stock tires, anyway? If you're a speed freak, you probably have S-03s, Eagles (etc. etc.) on your car already, even if it doesn't come with them. Every time I've had a car with "economy tires" , they'd come straight off in favor of some nice Bridgestones and mags. (Damn you PD!!! no +1 on street tires!!!)

Now if PD had given us a 300-ft skidpad... THEN we could get really anal about tire-accuracy Quick! how big is the gymkhana? ...gotta see about testing there.

 

[ya daddy]

It's not the fastest but will get the job done!!

 

[niky]

Indeed ^^ very entertaining car that one.

Just went back home over lunch. Seems to me (after doing a maintained diameter turn in 2nd gear on the gymkhana track) that my Protege (stock suspension... US weight) maintains about 0.8 g lateral acceleration with N1s, 0.9g with N2s and 0.95g++ with N3s, while on SMs it can maintain 1.05-1.1g lateral. These aren't exact figures, but that's as close as my eyeballs can get. The N3 figures seem to match Protege MP3/MSP skidpad numbers, while N2s would match the run-of-the mill Protege.

It seems dubious then, that any high-performance car would be running N2s. N1s are likely what you'd find on the Prius and the Kei Cars (old cars? Will test lateral acceleration later for some old cars I have the numbers for), N2s likely are on the G20, Vectra 3.2, and other "non-performance" cars, while almost everything else in GT4 should come with N3s. Maybe a good guide would be the height of the tire. If the tire has a high sidewall, it ought to be N1 or N2, while low-profiles would be N3. We ought to keep our testing at N3, at least, if we're going for the street-trim supercars, and N3 or SH for tuner cars.

 

[mechman1979]

Well, Tuscans are made BOTH as road cars and race cars. The Speed 12 is not for sale, but the solitary street trim version HAS been sold and is road-registered. All the others were made as race-cars from the beginning, and the street-car was already FINISHED when Trevor took a spin in it (figuratively or literally, I don't know. ) and decided it just wasn't right.

I agree that the concepts have no right to be called road cars, but homologation specials and one-offs produced to emissions and safety standards (let's not argue about WHOSE emission standards... ) should count. The most prevalent homologation special I know of would be the Lancer Evolution series. Unlike Subaru, Mitsubishi doesn't make producing AWD streetcars its primary motto, and your run of the mill Lancer has always been a 1.6 liter FF dog (their special editions are 1.6 MIVECs with 170hp, a far cry from the Evo). The Evo started out as merely a rally homologation issue that became so popular, it became a regular production model (albeit low volume) that is now seeing a boom in sales thanks to recent exposure to the US market. So race cars CAN be road cars, as long as they meet the requirements. Take the Zonda (which was developed as a road car first) and the R390 (which was developed as a race car first). Both are blisteringly fast, low-slung, and impractically small (two people only, very little luggage space). While one was developed for the road and the other for the track, who are we to say that they are that much different? The R390 could be bought and registered if the current keepers would consider selling it.

And being legal to drive in any country is difficult to define. For example, The Nissan Skyline is NOT legal in the US due to emissions, but CAN BE MADE legal in nearly stock form merely through reprogramming. It will never be legal without extensive mechanical modifications in my country, as ALL RIGHT HAND DRIVE VEHICLES are ILLEGAL here in the Philippines. The McLaren F1 was not legal in the US initially, and it took some of the first owners a lot of money to make it legal. And if we get down to itty-bitty details, the Nissan SE-R (SR20DE) B14 was legal in the US, but NOT in California. Almost everything is illegal in Cali... except marijuana.

So let's put it that any car can be made to pass emission standards, not all "road cars" can pass safety standards in every country. There are some cars developed FOR the road that are sold in volume that will never be legal in the US.

So, the answer should be. It can be a racecar developed to street-spec. It should at least be road-legal in its current market. It should be sold/available for sale and there should be registered versions on the road.

Actually there are 2 Skylines legally registered in NJ and About 5 or more in California. I know because someone offered my boss the opportunity to buy a Skyline legally so they do count. Lets leave at this, any road bearing car that has more than 500 produced can qualify as a road car. That should knock out any difference. I would say Zondas do count because they are only different mildly in body styling and options one to the next. Kind of like have a Cobalt base model or a Cobalt SS. Please give me feedback if we can agree on these terms for what defines a road car.