The fastest ROAD car in GT4!

[Kent]

Excellent work by both of you- niky, jaberwocky...

However, I think the comparisons are getting a little too technical for my blood.

Some things just can't be compared.

Take the XJ220 as an example.
Sure, throw some "S2" tires on and have a go, but should the jag really be on the S2 tires every other car is?
In the real life version the tires were made specifically for that car.
I doubt a high-end manufacturer like jag would have a tire manufacturer create an all new custom tire for their supercar only to end up with the same stuff as the competition.

In a similar situation, look at the Carbon-R.
As already discussed in this thread (or maybe another), the Carbon-R was never made as a street car and in fact, is closer to a race car than anything else.

Going even deeper into this sort of comparison we have to look at ourselves, not just the cars...

Does a DS2 really allow us to do the speed 12 justice?
Do street tires on that thing even come close to representing the rubber that is probably what we should be using?

Just because a car comes with "S" tires does not necessarily mean it is meant to ride on those in GT4 races.

As with anything, I admit, this is just my opinion.
However, I really feel like deciding what the "fastest road car" is should come from our feelings and not just our lap times.
(which is one thing I liked about niky's work 👍 )

Now with all that said,
Niky, how could you do that challenge and leave out the fastest street car in the game?



NSX LM Road Car silly!!!

Sorry to throw that wrench in your setup but I just couldn't watch the mine's get fastest road car in the game.

Also, for that matter, if you are going to test the Carbon-R, you better test it's more civil little brother, the Amuse S2000 GT1.

Anyway, sorry to be an arse and pick at what's been posted.
But hey, atleast I really am being constructive and positive about the whole thing.
Atleast I hope I am.

 

[niky]

, you definitely are an arse, Kent . My comparison was not focused on road cars, but supercars. Noted, I ought to do a time attack with the NSX for good measure, thanks for pointing it out. I was going to put an NSX in the test near the end, but I was so worn out by that time (over 200 km in the Speed 12 with no TCS will do that to you ) I nixed the idea.

Will try it later and update results. Too late for my article, though.

The S2000 would be nice for a bit of fun, but it's below my price/power cut-off. I only considered the three cheap cars in the article because they were over 500hp. If I'd considered EVERYTHING I consider super, I'd have to test all the Astons, both Lotus Esprits, the Lotus Elise 111R, the Protomotorsports Spirra, the regular Skyline GT-R Nur, the Nismo R-Tune, (I did test the Corvette and Tuscan Speed 6 for good measure), but you see where I'm getting at... there had to be a cut-off. I don't doubt that the NSX or any of the cars I didn't test would kick the crap out of some of the slower "supers", but I was on a tight budget.

As for the Speed 12, yes, it was never meant for road tires, and the DS2 is woefully inadequate, but I think it's fairly representative of how it would be to actually drive it on street tires. There is only one guy in the world with a Speed 12 on the streets, and I suppose he's the only one who can answer that...

Although the XJ220 came with bespoke tires, that was with regard to tire sizes. To be fair, I could have just put everything on S3's and said to hell with it, but I wanted showroom stock, and that's what I did. On another note, the XJ220 is OLD, and who's to say how sticky those tires would be compared to the new stuff?

I only put in the Carbon R for a bit of fun, and you're right, it doesn't really count as a road car.

Points taken, am going back and trying some more.

 

[Dave A]

EVO had a go at it before. Remember, that's from the view of a NON-race driver. They said you couldn't really nail the throttle on cold tires, and on street tires, it was damn scary. They had a test of the only road-registered Speed 12 in existence, not one of the racecars. If you couldn't get the power down at all in the racing version, I doubt they would have even bothered fielding them...

Go ahead and try, I'd be happy to see you do it (seriously, I just suck in this car). My problem is I've only got the DS2, so throttle control between 1/4 - 1/2- 3/4 is harder than with the DFP pedals. I've had to record that time with the right analog stick, which isn't my best driving, but it's the only way for me to do it.

I have that Evo article infront of me and they don't mention flooring it out of corners once. He said the rear tyres span when he set off at first but tyhat was the first time he'd been in the car. He took the first corner sideways, but he didn't spin. The cars not super hard to control if you know how to drive. It's hard but it's not like in GT4 where it spins at small stabs at the trottle (this is witrh no TCS or ASM like irl),. You have to remember as well, the Evo article was testing the car on old worn tyres that wern't round anymore and had marbles stuck to them. We'll have to wait for the next article Evo does for the performance test, and the owner has agreed to let them do it. On street tyres they said "it won't shock you to learn that there isn't nearly as much traction with the road tyres fitted". They also said "it feels terrifyingly quick", not that it was damn scary. Terrifyingly quick is a positive for a performace car, scary to drive isn't, and they didn't say that. They did floor the throttle in that article, but he only talks about spinning the tyres on his out and in lap, after that he was on the ball, pushing a bit harder every lap.

I'll have a go at the 12 round Autumn ring, I use the DS2 as well.

 

[Jaberwocky]

On street tires, I dunno.

I can barely keep the rear tires on the Zonda from spinning even with supersofts, but there is enough grip for it to accelerate hard. I've tried the Speed 12, even with supersofts, the car just wouldn't stop spinning the rear tires. DS2 or not, there is not enough rear grip on the speed 12 to beat the Zonda on most tracks.

Most of these are really just race cars though, even if you call them road cars. I haven't tried the NSX LM road car, but I suspect that one of the LM road cars to be the fastest.

I think in the SKyline GTR is a very very good car as is the Tommy Kaira ZZII, on street tires, the 4wd may make them on par with the zonda if you were to put them on lousy tires, but I dont know till I try.

 

[niky]

I have that Evo article infront of me and they don't mention flooring it out of corners once. He said the rear tyres span when he set off at first but tyhat was the first time he'd been in the car. He took the first corner sideways, but he didn't spin. The cars not super hard to control if you know how to drive. It's hard but it's not like in GT4 where it spins at small stabs at the trottle (this is witrh no TCS or ASM like irl),. You have to remember as well, the Evo article was testing the car on old worn tyres that wern't round anymore and had marbles stuck to them. We'll have to wait for the next article Evo does for the performance test, and the owner has agreed to let them do it. On street tyres they said "it won't shock you to learn that there isn't nearly as much traction with the road tyres fitted". They also said "it feels terrifyingly quick", not that it was damn scary. Terrifyingly quick is a positive for a performace car, scary to drive isn't, and they didn't say that. They did floor the throttle in that article, but he only talks about spinning the tyres on his out and in lap, after that he was on the ball, pushing a bit harder every lap.

I'll have a go at the 12 round Autumn ring, I use the DS2 as well.

Forgive me, then, I stand corrected. It's been a while since I read that article.

Yes, the car is not hard to control at all. But the tire-spinning madness that GT4 models (accurately or erroneously, only time and that upcoming performance check will tell) makes getting it up to speed pretty hard... and since the turns of Autumn Ring produce out of corner traction issues in the first place, it requires a lot of concentration to get a good lap in. I think you can hope for near 1:20s, but higher times would require lots of skill.

It's fun, but like I said: too much effort for the reward as compared to the other cars.

To Jaberwocky, if you mean the modified Zonda, yeah, with a thousand hp, I'd believe it. But I think it's possible to drive, even so.

Let's crack this damn nut, guys!

 

[Dave A]

I doubt the 12 is the fastrer car in GT4 around Autumn ring stock with no TCS and ASM, but I think it is the fastest stock car at the Ring. I'm gonna have a blast on GT4 now then I'm off to play GTR so I'll let you know what times I can manage.

 

[Dave A]

I've got a 1'22'316 so far, I'm going to hav a few more laps, it can be done a lot faster but it's had to get a clean lap on this track with the Speed 12. I think for a super lap your looking at a 1'19-1'20 with no TCS maybe 1'18 with a TCS set to 3 or 4 and a superb lap.

 

[niky]

At the Big Ring, no doubt it would rock, as a major part of any Nurburg lap is straightline speed. That's my next stop, but it'll take me a week or two to test all of the cars I've got on me... good luck!

 

[Dave A]

The best I've done now is 1'21'452 I'm leaving it at that for now to play GTR but I'll have a few more tries another time, see if I can beat 1'20. Anyway good luck at the Ring, with no TCS it's not going to be easy by any means however sub 7 mins is possible.

 

[Kent]

Ah, I see GT-Kongen is around...

Remember a little while back when I was in awe of your times you posted.
Still good times 👍
However, I took the 800hp skyline GT-R '99 out to the ring and brought it under 6 minutes.

Regarding the NSX LM Road Car and Niky...
I think there may be a misunderstanding here.
The NSX LM Road is a monster.

Stock form:
553hp
1230kg
Adjustable downforce- Max front 25, rear 35.

That's stock, no added spoiler either.

Go check it out because contrary to your expectations, this NSX will indeed take the supercars down a level.

 

[amp88]

Just did a lap of Autumn Ring there in the Speed 12 (standard, no aids) in 6th gear in 1'25.831. I wonder if any other cars could do that...

 

[Dave A]

The NSX LM road car is a fictional model though so imo it can't really be compared. It doesn't exist. It does however show up pretty much every other car in the game.

 

[sunnybwoy]

Id also like to add that if the Amuse s2000 gt1 is driven perfectly, it can go toe to toe with the nsx lm road car. But I suppose theres still speculation over whether or not its a road car, I just love its power delivery as well.

 

[mechman1979]

I would have to say all around fastest road car would have to be the Cadillac Cien when all mods are done with a spoiler and the downforce set at full the thing sticks like a race car on the track. With 974 hp it is certainly up there if not the fastest I havent been able to find a better road car. After a short run of ten laps I was beating my best time of my skyline by almost 2 seconds on highspeed ring and the skyline had softer tires!!!
Skyline=59.43 seconds RS tires
Cien= 57.77 seconds RM tires
I did save the replay. I believe on the race course the Cadillac Cien is the fastest road car.

 

[niky]

The NSX LM road car is a fictional model though so imo it can't really be compared. It doesn't exist. It does however show up pretty much every other car in the game.

Hmm... that's why I didn't catch it... saw NSX and 500hp in my garage and thought it was a modded car (have a bad memory!)... I think the closest real NSX would be the new Type-R (just because it's light)... But to be fair, the Cien is nowhere near real (althought the Nardo was tested), as Cadillac's mules are never fully fleshed out...

Just did a lap of Autumn Ring there in the Speed 12 (standard, no aids) in 6th gear in 1'25.831. I wonder if any other cars could do that...

My time is 1:24 - here's the review.

Live4speed is at 1:21... man, you're nuts! Great time!

 

[mechman1979]

Hmm... that's why I didn't catch it... saw NSX and 500hp in my garage and thought it was a modded car (have a bad memory!)... I think the closest real NSX would be the new Type-R (just because it's light)... But to be fair, the Cien is nowhere near real (althought the Nardo was tested), as Cadillac's mules are never fully fleshed out...



My time is 1:24 - here's the review.

Live4speed is at 1:21... man, you're nuts! Great time!

You better check your resources buddy and look at Cadillac online it was a concept car that was actually made and driven only never to top speed. Here take a look.
http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-Cadillac-Cien-Concept.htm

 

[JTSnooks]

Well I've seen more than one test on the fully-modded cars (I think it was on R3s, could've been on R5s). The Zonda, R390 road car, and Viper SRT-10 are the three consistently fastest cars in the game, and the Speed 12 is close, but generally the lack of traction hurts it too much to keep up, unless it's a track with long straighter sections. Now granted these tests were done on well-tuned, tamed cars driven by someone who had a lot of miles in all of them. The R390 was about 2-3 seconds faster on every track than the zonda and Viper, with the Speed 12 farther back. The Zonda and Viper swapped back and forth for 2nd and 3rd, and occasionally took a first. I think the Speed 12 took one first place finish, but I don't remember where. May have been Sarthe II. The main problem with the Zonda is that it can't have a wing, otherwise it would be quite a bit better than the Viper, but as it is, the fastest production car in the game fully modded is the R390, followed by the Viper SRT-10 or Zonda (depends mostly on the driver and track). There were a few other cars in the test too, but those three were the front-runners. I believe the Ford GT was tested also, and maybe the SLR. Either way, nothing else could keep up. If I find it again I'll try to get more detailed results up

 

[mechman1979]

If you go on pure fact of whether not the car was made in real life, the nissan r390 would be the fastest road car in gt4. One thing that I think though is that the car was made from a race car and detuned to be driven on the street. I would say that would be pushing the limit, but its up to the people. As far as any other car the Cadillac Cien is definetly faster when tuned that any other road car.

 

[Jedi2016]

One thing that I think though is that the car [R390] was made from a race car and detuned to be driven on the street. I would say that would be pushing the limit, but its up to the people.

That's why I don't consider it to be a true "road car", because it wasn't designed as a road car. Cars like the Zonda and Viper were built as road cars from the ground up.

 

[niky]

Just did a lap of Autumn Ring there in the Speed 12 (standard, no aids) in 6th gear in 1'25.831. I wonder if any other cars could do that...

Christ, just realized you said you did the WHOLE LAP IN SIXTH GEAR... ...mad SKILLZ, yo! I ought to try that!!!

You better check your resources buddy and look at Cadillac online it was a concept car that was actually made and driven only never to top speed. Here take a look.
http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-Cadillac-Cien-Concept.htm

But the Cien was never developed to street spec. Like the C16, it was a wonderful look at a car they could have built in numbers but didn't... Top Gear actually drove the C16 concept, but then that's also different from a fully street-legal car. The TVR Speed 12 manages to be street legal and registered and still maintains its 800+++ hp power...

Now we're splitting hairs again... sorry. You're right, it was driven, but never tested to full speed.

One thing that sucks is that the Bugatti is nowhere in sight... now there's a silly monster I'd like to test.

 

[Kent]

After looking at some of the above comments I felt obligated to mention a few things.

1) The Jaguar XJ220 was a great car in real life and is a great car in this game.
945hp, 12??kg, additional spoiler option.

2) Purely based on real life- the Speed 12 is my bet for fastest road car from this game.
I can't see anything getting to be as fast as the speed 12.

The 12 is a spot in GT where we get an ugly reminder that no matter how good a game is, it is still just a game- not real life.
In r/l the 12 can be driven like other cars, in that, you can feel the loss of traction... You can feel the clutch engage, you can feel the car's every little move.

In GT we don't get to feel that clutch or the delicate balance between grip and slip.

It reminds me of driving cars in GT that I actually have driven in real life.
The DC2 integra for one... I've taken that puppy out for a hard drive once or twice and in all that time I never once felt understeer or traction loss in the way GT depicts either of those two.
(btw, FF in GT4 is "leaps and bounds" better than in GT3) 👍

Don't get me wrong, I really like GT and it is one of my favorite games easily.
However, I just want to iterate that there are certain things GT will never be able to do.

Real life is one of them.

So, in closing...
In Game: XJ220 👍
Real Life: Speed 12 👍 👍

Oh yeah... Last thing...
Autumn Ring is one hell of a track.
Are you all sure each and every test lap used was done on the proper line and with the proper gear shifts?

I do not doubt anyone's ability to drive properly.
However, "A.R." is a complex track and driving it consistantly could be difficult.
Just something to think about...

Maybe one of my favorites, Motegi East, would be a good place to test.
Complex but easier for consistancy.
Also a real world track. 👍
Like I said though, just something to think about.

 

[niky]

Yup. I chose Autumn Ring arbitrarily for its ability to bring out character flaws in fast cars and nothing more. Any straying from the ideal racing line on Autumn Ring reflects the driver's ability to adapt to car. Like I've always said, I'm not the fastest, and I consider myself an average player... and my ability or inability to get a great time out of a car on this track reflects how easy that car is to handle.

As an aside, I've tried your pet, the NSX LM. Whether through familiarity with the track, or through sheer goodness of the car, I posted a 1:17:785 after about twelve laps. I have no doubt the Zonda could match this in the right hands (and Live4Speed could shave a few more seconds off it! ), but the NSX is a bloody good handling car, almost as sticky as the R390 with much more power. Traction is excellent and turn in is relatively sharp for a supercar. One oddity, is that this car is more tail-happy than any of the other MRs, save, perhaps the Ford GT... probably due to perfect weight distribution? Or is it just because it's very stiff... hmmm... going to test some more.

I agree that FFs are much better overall in GT4 than GT3 (hated driving them in 3) and that they can still be improved. My car is actually much better in real-life than in game... I'm disappointed that it's so "understeery" (although I hear it kicks butt in the SCCA on the boards).

Motegi? I guess that's a good idea. What about some El Cap or Trial Mountain? I'd say Nur, but that's too much work! But on Nur, even with mistakes, a lap comparison is fairly representative, because the mistakes even out over the extreme length of the lap.

As noted by others in this thread, on fast tracks, the Speed 12 is a monster. And I think you're right... it's our inability to "feel" wheelslip through the clutch that keeps us from using this car to its fullest.

 

[Thrust-Master]

My fastest (road)car is the Lotus Esprit 350 97' (old one) with a top speed of 470 km/h (294 mp/h)...440 km/h (275) on GT3...

 

[JTSnooks]

Hehe, the XJ220 isn't anywhere near the fastest road car in GT4 because of its 12XX kg weight. It's a portly beast, no matter how beautiful it is. And as for "road car", the Cien was never built, it was a one-off concept car. It had an engine, drivetrain, and body, and that's about it. The R390 WAS built as a road car, although in small numbers only for homologation for Le Mans. The Speed 12, as far as I know, there is only one road version in existence, but it HAS been "produced" and sold to one lucky guy. And by the way, I doubt the Cien would be faster than the Viper or Zonda and especially the R390 around a track. The Viper and Zonda both make over 1000hp and the Viper handles INCREDIBLY with a good suspension/LSD tuning. I believe the Cien is a little heavy also, although I never really drove mine in the game. So in order of worthiness of being called a "road car", here they are:

1. Dodge Viper (thousands sold for 13...14...15? years)
2. Pagani Zonda (low production due to its price, but a true production car)
3. Nissan R390 (very small production run, was only made for homologation)
4. TVR Speed 12 (one road version produced and sold, totally street legal...somewhere)
5. Cadillac Cien (concept car, never fully fleshed out, never produced, certainly never crash- or emissions-tested, only could be called a "road car" because it's not a "race car")

Oh, and as for the NSX LM, I haven't driven it, but it sounds like it could keep up. I'd probably slot it right above the Cien, but I'm not sure if it's ever been produced (I don't think it has, right?), but the car its based on at least exists, unlike the Cien.

 

[Dave A]

Ther R390 is less of a road car than the Speed 12, the Speed 12 wa planned to make production, didn't and the one road model built was sold. The R390 was never intended to have more that a single road model built and it never did have more than one built which by the way is in a museum. At least there was originally intended to be more than one Speed 12 and the one that was sold was sold to the public not to a museum never to be driven on the roads.

The NSX-LM is completely fictyional, it a car PD have made up thats based on the NSX. It should be below the Cien in your list.

 

[sunnybwoy]

This is seeming to get a bit out of hand. As the Topic in the thread says, The fastest road car IN GT4, the answer is the nsx lm road car, in stock trim. Lets leave it be now, were not the fastest road car on Earth that was a real road car, you can start a new thread for that if you like,

 

[JTSnooks]

Really? There was only one R390 made? Usually you have to make 50-100 for homologation, but I don't really know that much about the R390, I was just guessing Ok, then the Speed 12 is above the R390, and the NSX LM isn't even a real car, so it's below the Cien. Whatever

And when was it shown that the NSX LM was the fastest in GT4? Especially fully modified, I haven't seen anybody compare it, but I don't think it makes enough horsepower to keep up...someone try it and find out

 

[Kent]

I don't know about fully modified, but in stock form the NSX LM is surely the fastest in the game. 👍

I put down some of the stats in a previous reply when I suggested it be included with the autumn ring test by niky.
Sure enough, niky went and tested it and came back with results suggesting the NSX LM is the fastest in the game.
Of course, I can't speak for niky so I will say no more (about that).

However, I will say this much...
I still haven't been able to do the testing I had planned.
Just narrowing down the list and finding the right track for testing is enough trouble.
Actually doing the test.

If I get the chance I will certainly let you all know how it goes.
Btw, do you all think we should even concern ourselves with stock trim?
Should this be a full mod thing?
In any case, I'll be around so let me know what you all find with your own testing.

Oh, last thing...
Do you all think we should setup some limitations and regulations for testing?
Like PWR and HP classes?

 

[sunnybwoy]

The reason I'm more interested in the stock form is because I play a lot on xlink, and thus no use for modified cars, besides, modified cars are too easy to use to begin with.

 

[Kent]

The reason I'm more interested in the stock form is because I play a lot on xlink, and thus no use for modified cars, besides, modified cars are too easy to use to begin with.

I don't know much about xlinking but from the sound of it I would say you need to look into testing with the arcade cars. 👍

Maybe at full quick tune, maybe at stock.
In either case, I think the arcade mode is the place for the testing that would help you the most.

With that said,
What do you all think the fastest arcade road cars are?

My initial thoughts end up with the NSX LM again.
Then the list gets to be a bit of a mystery...
Ford GT
Jag XJ220
Zonda 7.3
ZZ II ?
Speed 12 ?

I'm not sure about the ZZ II or the speed 12 being able to keep up in arcade mode.

What do you all think the fastest arcade street car is?