The Formula 1 calendar development threadFormula 1
- Thread starter prisonermonkeys
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- Ardius_
The teams used to utlitlise two sets of teams (one being a test team) back in the day and swap them about to make sure they didn't burn out. But due to testing bans and now the resource restrictions, it is not possible and not cost-effective to keep so many people on one team.
Not to mention that the midfield and lower teams couldn't afford to do that back then and effectively had double-shift teams. This will surely happen again today, maybe Ferrari and McLaren could afford to hire more people to lessen the burden, but Toro Rosso, Sauber, Force India, Lotus, Virgin and Hispania sure can't!
The "they weren't forced to do this sport" and "they have loads of money" arguments don't wash frankly. Just because people have a choice to quit, doesn't mean we should totally ignore working conditions.
I mean, if it was as easy as you suggest, why is FOTA and people like Ross Brawn against super-long calendars? Ross has already been vocal about fears on working hours and employee morale with the suggestion of the Indian GP held in December. FOTA also recently refused to allow testing back in, the teams are clearly against bringing the costs in the sport back up by allowing testing and increasing the workforces again.
Robin
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I really don't see F1 working conditions as poor, what mechanic for example wouldn't rather be working for an F1 team flat out for half a year on an excellent salary than in a cold wet garage at home all year!
Its a privilege to work in top level motorsport and it takes people of 'meaner stuff' to handle it. Its the age old 'sure, there is blood sweat and tears but the ride and potential rewards are more than worth it'. Tolerance of workload should be proportional to the importance and prestige of the job your doing and a bet many would still work for a team even if the calendar got larger and larger.
Its like the Army, they sure are a worked bunch and there are always concerns of moral and workload but its about pride and serving your country which keep them going and that's the comparison I'm making.
On the cost side of things I do understand what your saying but with so much cost cutting going on in F1 over the years you would think that they would now have some spare money to spend on extra staff etc. Even Hispania can't be running it THAT close to the line!
Robin.
Its a privilege to work in top level motorsport and it takes people of 'meaner stuff' to handle it. Its the age old 'sure, there is blood sweat and tears but the ride and potential rewards are more than worth it'. Tolerance of workload should be proportional to the importance and prestige of the job your doing and a bet many would still work for a team even if the calendar got larger and larger.
Its like the Army, they sure are a worked bunch and there are always concerns of moral and workload but its about pride and serving your country which keep them going and that's the comparison I'm making.
On the cost side of things I do understand what your saying but with so much cost cutting going on in F1 over the years you would think that they would now have some spare money to spend on extra staff etc. Even Hispania can't be running it THAT close to the line!
Robin.
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- Ardius_
Spare money, ha! No, the big teams will effectively spend the same amounts of money, its just that the smaller teams don't need to spend as much to reach and equivelant level of performance. The big teams will simply spend more money on aerodynamic wheel rims or crazy engine maps.
Before Minardi and Arrows could design a pretty decent car that completely lost its speed over the season purely because the teams couldn't spend the same amount of money and time that the big teams could testing and further developing the cars.
Now with limited testing, the smaller teams are in the same boat as the big teams and are only limited as far as spending on development. But their testing budget is effectively the same.
Its not as easy as simply going "well, we don't need to spend on testing, so lets hire double the mechanics so we can run more races". Sure, perhaps the smaller teams could cope..but why increase costs again? There are always going to be teams trying to avoid or not able to hire more staff to cover the extra work load.
I don't think being an F1 mechanic is all that great a job, while working conditions are not really "poor", I don't think there is much room for making them work even harder..for longer. You have to have a serious amount of passion for the sport already and be willing to work away from home and with a large amount of pressure and stress. Dream job it is not.
Anyway the point is I don't agree with it being it so easy that they can run 20+ races with week-long gaps between many of the races. And as I said, I don't like the thought process of "if it can be done already, surely it must be fine to increase everything".
Before Minardi and Arrows could design a pretty decent car that completely lost its speed over the season purely because the teams couldn't spend the same amount of money and time that the big teams could testing and further developing the cars.
Now with limited testing, the smaller teams are in the same boat as the big teams and are only limited as far as spending on development. But their testing budget is effectively the same.
Its not as easy as simply going "well, we don't need to spend on testing, so lets hire double the mechanics so we can run more races". Sure, perhaps the smaller teams could cope..but why increase costs again? There are always going to be teams trying to avoid or not able to hire more staff to cover the extra work load.
I don't think being an F1 mechanic is all that great a job, while working conditions are not really "poor", I don't think there is much room for making them work even harder..for longer. You have to have a serious amount of passion for the sport already and be willing to work away from home and with a large amount of pressure and stress. Dream job it is not.
Anyway the point is I don't agree with it being it so easy that they can run 20+ races with week-long gaps between many of the races. And as I said, I don't like the thought process of "if it can be done already, surely it must be fine to increase everything".
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It's to cash in on Alonso's popularity. It's why we had two races in Germany when Schumacher was at the height of his powers. The problem here is that it hasn't worked. The Spanish fans are quite funny in that they only seem to care when Alonso is doing well. I he isn't, the crowd figures tend to be down. Look at the 2008 race, where he retired on the first lap - the grandstands were all but abandoned shortly thereafter.
Shanghai has just renewed their contract. The Australians are only playing hardball to gain political points with voters.
I am told there will be no race there because of the political situation in Argentina. A revived Argentine Grand Prix would only happen with the support of the government in Buenos Aires. However, the circuit is in San Luis, a seat currently held by the national opposition (and possibly one of their traditional seats). The government will not endorse a race to be held in the opposition's territory. However, I must say that my information may be slightly out of date.
It's also got a few problems with access and the pits. The circuit only qualifies for FIA Grade-2 status, and would need an upgrade to the pits and the paddock to accomodate Formula 1. But because the existing pits and paddock are squeezed in between the circuit and the lake, there isn't anywhere they could physically expand to.
Because Formula 1 circuits must be accredited to FIA Grade-1 standards. GT1 circuits only need to have a Grade-2 certification.
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It still doesn't do anything to address the problem of the government being unwilling to support the race because of its location.
Face it, Potrero de los Funes is a pipe dream. It's never going to happen.
Face it, Potrero de los Funes is a pipe dream. It's never going to happen.
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- Kingston, Jamaica
- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
You sure are knowledgeable, i'd have ad no idea about their government if you didn't bring it up. But wouldn't a large international event be a significant boost to the economy, regardless of which political party owns where?
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- Hammerhead Garage
There are only three ways a race could happen at Potrero de los Funes:
1) The government take control of the San Luis seat - this could only happen at the next election at the earliest, and like I said, it's a seat that has been under the opposition's control for some time, if it's not the centre of their power. It would require a massive swing in votes, and the promise of a Formula 1 race at the circuit would not be enough to swing voters.
2) The opposition take control of parliament - again, it can only happen at the next election, and it assumes they would be open to the idea of both having a race and having it at Potrero de los Funes. It's unlikely the race would be a priority, especially since the current government backed Jose Maria Lopez financially when he joined USF1, and we all know how that worked out.
3) A private investor funds the race without government support - although this would enable them to hold the race anywhere they wanted it, there is only one race in the world that is run entirely without any kind of input from the government: the British Grand Prix. There's a reason why it's not a very popular model for hosting a race - but more importantly, the organisers are looking at having the race at a new circuit near Zarate (not far from Buenos Aires) called the Velociudad Argentina. They had the ability to go to Potrero de los Funes, and elected not to.
Finally, I strongly suspect that if Potrero de los Funes did somehow make it onto the calendar, it would be disappointing. A lot of people have been deeply in love with the idea of a race there, and while the circuit does look promising, I think it's better-suited to sports cars than Formula 1.
1) The government take control of the San Luis seat - this could only happen at the next election at the earliest, and like I said, it's a seat that has been under the opposition's control for some time, if it's not the centre of their power. It would require a massive swing in votes, and the promise of a Formula 1 race at the circuit would not be enough to swing voters.
2) The opposition take control of parliament - again, it can only happen at the next election, and it assumes they would be open to the idea of both having a race and having it at Potrero de los Funes. It's unlikely the race would be a priority, especially since the current government backed Jose Maria Lopez financially when he joined USF1, and we all know how that worked out.
3) A private investor funds the race without government support - although this would enable them to hold the race anywhere they wanted it, there is only one race in the world that is run entirely without any kind of input from the government: the British Grand Prix. There's a reason why it's not a very popular model for hosting a race - but more importantly, the organisers are looking at having the race at a new circuit near Zarate (not far from Buenos Aires) called the Velociudad Argentina. They had the ability to go to Potrero de los Funes, and elected not to.
Finally, I strongly suspect that if Potrero de los Funes did somehow make it onto the calendar, it would be disappointing. A lot of people have been deeply in love with the idea of a race there, and while the circuit does look promising, I think it's better-suited to sports cars than Formula 1.
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92501
The French have officially set up a taskforce (made up of Eric Boullier, a former cabinet minister and the guy who runs Paul Ricard) to get the French Grand Prix back. The current mode of thought is that Paul Ricard is the most likely venue, and could rotate with Spa. Such an arragenment could see the French Grand Prix back as early as 2013.
You know they're serious when they start using works like "taskforce" to describe themselves. In Australia, the word "taskforce" is only really used when the police get together to take down the likes of the Ibrahims and the Morans.
The French have officially set up a taskforce (made up of Eric Boullier, a former cabinet minister and the guy who runs Paul Ricard) to get the French Grand Prix back. The current mode of thought is that Paul Ricard is the most likely venue, and could rotate with Spa. Such an arragenment could see the French Grand Prix back as early as 2013.
You know they're serious when they start using works like "taskforce" to describe themselves. In Australia, the word "taskforce" is only really used when the police get together to take down the likes of the Ibrahims and the Morans.
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- pj-gm
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I saw this a bit earlier today. I honestly don't think that is in any way a good idea. Neither Paul Ricard, nor the next best Magny Cours really ever provided is with very interesting races, and to alternate with what is undoubtedly a jewel in the F1 crown? Why in blazes can't they just take a spot of their own? Besides, with no French F1 drivers in F1, and as of now no French team either, is there really any national interest for their "taskforce" to be worth it?
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- Anoka, MN
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Because when it isn't hosting Grands Prix, Spa spends most of its time shifting from one crisis to the next.
Having a race at Spa every year might be a good thing - but there's also the risk that the race will collapse. Having the race every other year might be less than ideal, but it stands a better chance of preserving the Belgian Grand Prix.
Because there's an upper limit to the number of races that the calendar can hold. The provisional 2012 calendar holds 21 races, but one of them has to go. And then the Russians are going to join in 2014, which means a second race on the current calendar has to be dropped - but Turkey is the only race at the end of a contract (Bernie has never dropped a Grand Prix mid-contract simply because he got a better offer from someone else). And then there's been renewed interest from Argentina and Mexico in joining, as well as the Ukraine and South Africa putting their own bids together, plus the likes of Vietname and Croatia who have expressed interest in forming a bid. And that's just the interest that we've had this year.
France can't take a spot of there own because there is no spot to take.
There obviously is, since the prime minister put together the taskforce. Plus, you've got Romain Grosjean and Jules Bianchi currently doing very well for themselves in GP2, and Jean-Eric Vergne in Formula Renault 3.5. It's almost certain that at least one of them will graduate to Formula 1 by the time a French Grand Prix is resurrected, since the earliest date they could return to the calendar is 2013. I can't for the life of me imagine that the likes of Trulli, Barrichello, Webber, Karthikeyan and Schumacher will still be on the grid then. Plus, there's the annual rookie turnover that will create vacancies, and drivers like Sutil who may find themselves out of work if they keep getting beaten by their team-mates, and that's without mentioning the possibility that Robert Kubica will never race again (since a lot is riding on his recovery). By the time the French Grand Prix returns, half the current grid could be gone.
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I'll post this here as it seem to be the de facto future of F1 races thread.
Catalunya axed
Sounds like Valencia will become the Spanish GP, wonder what will become of the European GP. I guess this means Turkey is safe for 2012 as well(at least hopefully).
Catalunya axed
Sounds like Valencia will become the Spanish GP, wonder what will become of the European GP. I guess this means Turkey is safe for 2012 as well(at least hopefully).
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If the European GP is to continue, it should be in the position of being a different track in Europe each season, to me, that should be the whole point of that GP. Whether that is feasible or not with F1 track standards, is another matter.
Valencia for another 10 years? Yay.
Valencia for another 10 years? Yay.
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- Manchester
- Ardius_
Well I guess this is acceptable, though I agree I'd rather there be Catalunya than Valencia.
Then again, at least we will not longer have the old "well they test here all the time so we already know the result".
As for the European GP - who says it has to continue? As far as I can see, its only ever been a way around the "One GP per country" rule during times when more than one circuit has been able to pay. As we know, a lot of circuits struggle to pay the fees, so why turn down one circuit on the grounds of country?
The same goes for the "Luxembourg", "Pacific", "USA West", "Long Beach", "Detroit", "San Marino" etc GPs. Its just "European" has been used a lot more for obvious reasons - until recently its simply because both Hockenheim and Nurburgring have had money.
Then again, at least we will not longer have the old "well they test here all the time so we already know the result".
As for the European GP - who says it has to continue? As far as I can see, its only ever been a way around the "One GP per country" rule during times when more than one circuit has been able to pay. As we know, a lot of circuits struggle to pay the fees, so why turn down one circuit on the grounds of country?
The same goes for the "Luxembourg", "Pacific", "USA West", "Long Beach", "Detroit", "San Marino" etc GPs. Its just "European" has been used a lot more for obvious reasons - until recently its simply because both Hockenheim and Nurburgring have had money.
- 12,513
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- The__Luke
Happy and sad really. Happy that Catalunya is gone because it was a terrible track and always gives us a boring race.
Sad because Valencia has 10 more years because it is a terrible track and always gives us a boring race.
Catalunya is terrible.
There is one good track in Spain. Aragon. Simple as that really.
Sad because Valencia has 10 more years because it is a terrible track and always gives us a boring race.
Catalunya is terrible.
There is one good track in Spain. Aragon. Simple as that really.
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- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
I see Turkey going with Catalunya...
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- SaberFire89
- SaberFire89
I'd rather drop Cataluyna and have Jerez, but they're both pretty lacklustre. Valencia is just plain awful, but if they're willing to pay, then anywhere can get a race in F1, no matter how crap the track is.
Abu Dhabi and Bahrain are prime examples.
Abu Dhabi and Bahrain are prime examples.
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- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
Jerez wouldn't be much better, it's just a motorcycle track, just like Catalunya.
About Abu Dhabi and Bahrain, those 2 tracks, from what I can see, would have provided us with very, very good racing under the 2011 rules. At least far better than they did before. Shame that Bahrain didn't take place this year, it'd have surprised those who would've set their clocks to watch it.
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I've been thinking (always a dangerous sentence from me): I wonder if the Autodrome de Linas-Montlhéry would be a possibility for a French Grand Prix?
The full circuit is twelve kilometres, but I think a few modifications could be made to the western extension and trim it down to five or six kilometres - something like this - and it could be a real winner. It's also nice and close to Paris; in fact, it's within the Greater Paris Metropolitan Area. Of course, it would take some work, but it might be worth it.
The full circuit is twelve kilometres, but I think a few modifications could be made to the western extension and trim it down to five or six kilometres - something like this - and it could be a real winner. It's also nice and close to Paris; in fact, it's within the Greater Paris Metropolitan Area. Of course, it would take some work, but it might be worth it.
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- Houston, TX
- astrosdude91
They could always run the race as a street circuit? Perhaps Paris or even Versailles. That would be cool to see!
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- Yokohama
- F1fan1
Seems like an interesting idea. I'd take pretty much any French race track over Magny Cours though. *note to Boullier. No to Magny Cours and Bugatti Circuit*.
Would be interesting, but unless we have the next Alain Prost I just can't see the investment being made.
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- Hammerhead Garage
Except Boullier is not only serving Renault.
And besides, the Bugatti Circuit is rubbish.
And besides, the Bugatti Circuit is rubbish.
