The general WHAT IN THE WORLD is going on in Canada?

[Grand Prix]

I'm terrified at the thought of an NDP majority.

Me too, Noob, me too.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

There's nothing wrong with the ideals behind communism. There's just something wrong with the governments who try to work the ideal into reality.



Also, on the topic of teachers, who's heard of the teacher strikes/negotiations/talks in Ontario? This is scary. The people around here are stupid enough as it is.

 

[Müle]

Harper is a clown, and there's only so much of his BS that people will take.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Harper is a clown, and there's only so much of his BS that people will take.

Governments are all clowns in Canada. Seriously, the local MPPs do a much better job than the national governments, regardless of topic. They discuss things with us, spend wisely, and fix the things we want fixed: bridges, crime, and other small things.



But, everything in the national side of things (long gun registry, etc.) gets blown WAY out of proportion, and costs thousands of dollars more than just "we've seen an increase in the number of people owning AK-47s, and shooting French people. Let's make a long-gun registry. If you think that it's unfair, we'll fine you."


The NATIONAL government spends too much time discussing it with themselves (bureaucratics) and not enough time discussing it with civilians.

 

[AOS-]

Governments are all clowns in Canada. Seriously, the local MPPs do a much better job than the national governments, regardless of topic. They discuss things with us, spend wisely, and fix the things we want fixed: bridges, crime, and other small things.

They only have to deal with specific problems in specific city, not finding one solution that appeases the entire country.

That said though, the mayor of my city, Hazel McCallion has been killing it here. The city has really developed a lot throughout the decade I've lived here.

 

[Joel]

There's nothing wrong with the ideals behind communism. There's just something wrong with the governments who try to work the ideal into reality.

Also, on the topic of teachers, who's heard of the teacher strikes/negotiations/talks in Ontario? This is scary. The people around here are stupid enough as it is.

There is VERY much wrong with the ideals of communism. I can't believe that people still trumpet that "it's good in theory" garbage. It's not true at all. Communism provides no incentive to improve yourself, no incentive to work hard, no incentive to innovate, and no incentive to manufacture quality. It's a horrible system, and the logic behind it (or lack thereof) is terrible. The reason it doesn't work is because it's a stupid idea. It's not "bad in practice", it's just stupid all around.

As for Canada as a whole, I think there needs to be some adjustment to health care. It needs to be privatized to some degree. Costs are spiralling out of control, and it's because nobody knows the true cost of anything. Ask your doctor how much a certain procedure costs, and they say "who cares? You're not paying for it." The problem is that anyone who suggests that people should EVER have to pay a dime for health care in Canada is looked at like they're insane (unless of course you're talking about prescription glasses that cost hundreds of dollars or 100+ dollar dental fillings ). Imagine if your car insurance paid for tires, oil changes, and fuel. Think of how high the premiums would be. That's what health care is like in Canada.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

The problem with Communism is that for every problem communism solves, there's another problem created.



The problem with Canada, is that for every problem solved, another problem child is born, it seems. I'm getting tired of hearing about kids with no respect for anything, who join gangs etc.


The violence in Toronto makes no sense.


The violence in Québec (most recently, of course) makes no sense.


The separation in Québec makes no sense.


^^ This list goes on for days.


And, while it's not entirely the government's fault, the government needs to do even more, to help people find jobs, and start to cut people off from EI. We're huge in debt, and no one seems to want to help us.

 

[Joel]

The problem with communism is it solves no problems and creates tons of them.

As for gang violence in Toronto, it's a tough issue. Kids growing up in bad neighbourhoods with bad parents seems to be the problem.

 

[Antonisbob]

I can't stand French so I've decided to learn German as well. I don't care much about Canadian politics - and frankly I don't care about the Quebec. They can do as they wish but it doesn't benefit them in anyway as far as trading goes...

You're just like me.

 

[Keef]

We're huge in debt, and no one seems to want to help us.

When you say "we" are you referring to you people or the country's government?

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

When you say "we" are you referring to you people or the country's government?

Well, I can't speak for the population, as the population's split between "excessively rich" and "almost homeless" here. The government, though, is in hot water. We bailed Ford out, etc., and now it's come to bite us, hard, in the rear.. ummm, taillights. (Yeah, taillights fits in the AUP.)

 

[Nicktune]

(Québec wants its sovereignty,)

They don't actually.

I'm Canadian. The PQ won a minority election, so they won't be able to just open up another referendum whenever they want. That being said, it's a little disheartening to see that 1 in 3 Quebecers actually agree with the PQ.

That doesn't mean they agree with everything the political party offers...The percentage of people that want sovereignty is much lower than 1/3 (it's a minority).You can't put everybody in the same basket... It's like saying Every english-canadians are like Harper.

Quebecers were royally screwed regardless of who they chose.

Yes
There's 3 main political parties: one is only one year old and the one that was there had around 70% of insatisfaction...Not much choice left.

I see a lot of stereotype or probably misinformation outside the province about what really happen.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

^^ I hope so, Nicktune. I honestly do.


J'espère que le Québec soit toujours canadien.

(I hope that Québec is always Canadian)


But, it doesn't mean that it will be. It's a scary thought, the number of times that they've called this sovereignty vote.

 

[Public'sTwin]

I've never heard a reason. It doesn't mean that there isn't one, I've just yet to meet a pro-sovereignty Québecois with a decent reason.

The pro-sovereinty argument is an essentially nationalist one that appeals to history and race, as with most nationalist arguments. They were coerced into confederation in the first place, so if we want to get picky, there's really no blame to place on them.

If there's something I learned from Socials 11, it is that all throughout Canada's history all Quebec did was moan and complain.

I don't get it, if you hate Canada so much, go back to France.

Also, I am not employed.

Such a comment does not belong in the sphere of mature Canadian political discourse.

If one isn't willing to bother to understand the perspective of not just their opponents, but their compatriots, a dialogue is not tenable. And the alternative to that, so far as we can learn from America's endeavours anyway, is war.

By the way—you don't even want to know what Napolean would have done if he arrived in North America. Are Americans this abusive toward their French-Louisiana brethren? I'm honestly ashamed of the racism going on here.

Do Quebec separatists really think that being independent will go along fine and dandy?

Because for one, I really doubt Canada and Uncle Sam will recognize them.

And two, I also really doubt the UK will either.

All of this is irrelevant.

If there is a revolution in Quebec—which, by the way, would place them closer in constitution to the United States than Canada proper, since, you know, REPUBLICANISM—it will almost certainly be recognized providing they establish governmental procedures that are not in gross violation of UN charters.

As a British Columbian I have witnessed what the NDP can do to really screw up an economy. They bought useless crap that no one really wanted or needed (i.e., "fast ferries" to Vancouver Island that were only a bit faster and were in constant need of repair, before eventually being sold off again). Our economy was pretty much destroyed, and took a long time to recover from that. So you can see why they have struggled to get seats in BC provincial elections in the following years.

Not that the Liberals are much better, but they do at least understand how to use money instead of simply handing it out to whining school teachers (seriously, they work from 9am to 3pm, have a two months summer break and additional holdidays, and are already pretty well payed to begin with, they don't need better pay), and the homeless in Vancouver who pretty much just use it to buy drugs anyways. Sorry to be blunt, I'm just telling it like it is.

Trust me on this, you do not want the NDP to win a Federal Majority Government, just, no. Our Liberals and Conservatives are already pretty left in comparison to American parties to begin with, the last thing we need in this recession is some near-communists to 🤬 everything up.

Honestly, I would be surprised if they did win a majority. But I think they would need the Liberal and Conservative party leaders to be complete clowns in order for that to happen (Ok, that could be possible I admit, ). Even then, I doubt the NDP would be re-elected after everyone sees what those crazy BC lumberjacks are talking about.


[/stupid rant]

As a British Columbian, and precisely because you are a British Columbian, your experience with the NDP as a federal force is irrelevant. You cannot extrapolate on the basis of a metonymy the behaviour of the "whole"—especially one which is made up of different, nationally-selected constituent parts.

Also do remember that most democracies, parliamentary or republican, are left of USA's: it is not a benchmark of political "normalcy"—only one of power. The expediency by which you've lazily resorted to a popular aphoristic comparison is saddening, given the wide international respect that Canada has—and has squandered and lost during the "rightist" Harper years.

There is VERY much wrong with the ideals of communism. I can't believe that people still trumpet that "it's good in theory" garbage. It's not true at all. Communism provides no incentive to improve yourself, no incentive to work hard, no incentive to innovate, and no incentive to manufacture quality. It's a horrible system, and the logic behind it (or lack thereof) is terrible. The reason it doesn't work is because it's a stupid idea. It's not "bad in practice", it's just stupid all around.

Actually, so far, the history would indicate otherwise. Since neither Russia, China, nor Cuba, had "real" (eg, egressing from a capitalist apotheosis) Communist revolutions, there is no historical basis for this argument—so your appeal to empiricism fails.

Secondly, if we're to be logically strict here, one cannot refute the "it's good in theory" if the correlate of that is one based on experience, since, as I pointed out, there is no real experience. Third, your assertions that Communism "provides no incentive to improve yourself" (and Capitalism does??), "no incentive to work hard", "no incentive to innovate" etc are all negated precisely by the very fact that the labour would have ownership of the means of manufacturing. This provides direct incentive to both work harder, and innovate, since the profits are not being sucked from your energy and funneled into the pockets of management and aloof ownership. You argument is completely nonsenical. Bare in mind that, despite all the trumpeting, there has never been a wholly private economy in the developed world—ever.

As for Canada as a whole, I think there needs to be some adjustment to health care. It needs to be privatized to some degree. Costs are spiralling out of control, and it's because nobody knows the true cost of anything. Ask your doctor how much a certain procedure costs, and they say "who cares? You're not paying for it." The problem is that anyone who suggests that people should EVER have to pay a dime for health care in Canada is looked at like they're insane (unless of course you're talking about prescription glasses that cost hundreds of dollars or 100+ dollar dental fillings ). Imagine if your car insurance paid for tires, oil changes, and fuel. Think of how high the premiums would be. That's what health care is like in Canada.

I still don't understand what you're getting at here because it does not in any way cohere with reality.

Right. To explain: I have no idea.

1. Anti-Canadian separatists just came to power in the province of Québec
2. A man from Québec went to the "after party" of the political party that won and shot two people, killing one
3. Upon being arrested, the man shouted, (in French) "Les anglais se sont levés!" meaning "The English are awakened!"

The things going on in this country... As a person who prefers German... I feel trapped in the middle of quite a fiasco.



What's your opinion on this? All of what happened? What's your take?



And, if you're not in the mood for talk of the formation of a new country (Québec wants its sovereignty,) what about the job situation? Are you Canadian? Are you employed? Are you unemployed? Can you find work?



Finally, and this is only important to me, would I need to contact the government to "legally" own and operate a business, if I were to charge money to clean cars for a living? (I'm looking for an informed answer on this, if I can find one.)

Anyway, to answer the original question, here is my take:

1. The separatists are not "anti-Canadian". They are, if we're all going to be honest here, anti-imperialist. They were one of the few colonies that were not emancipated by the British because, by 1945, the British had already ceded sovereinty to "Canada" as a dominion in and of itself, thus washing its hands of the issue. Think of the French autonomizing Algeria—except, imagine that Algeria had its' own micro-nation within it the French simply made sovereign to avoid two massive debates.

2. I have no idea what on earth was going in that man's head.

3. The job situation is not so dire here as it is in the United States, for a number of reasons (social security being one of them, our banking regulation being another, among a myriad of reasons too numerous and onerous to list for someone without an economics degree). I've witnessed the hardships—people dropping off resumes at my place of work—afflicting people of all ages, especially the older and unskilled demographics. There is still an axiomatic hiring principle that is unskilled labour is being hired, it's going to be young labour. They're pliable and don't know their rights, so they get picked up and exploited instead of a 50-something year old who is going to assert themselves and possibly be less productive due to lower energy levels.

On the whole, though, I think Canada is slowly becoming re-energized. Layton's passing, and the subsequent hyperignition of the NDP flame by Mulcair has done a lot to increase the NDP's visibility. The additional fact that he was a parliamentary house member in Quebec should also serve as a much-needed bridge between Anglo- (including the dismissive Albertans) and Francophonic Canada.

 

[Grand Prix]

As a British Columbian, and precisely because you are a British Columbian, your experience with the NDP as a federal force is irrelevant. You cannot extrapolate on the basis of a metonymy the behaviour of the "whole"—especially one which is made up of different, nationally-selected constituent parts.

Also do remember that most democracies, parliamentary or republican, are left of USA's: it is not a benchmark of political "normalcy"—only one of power. The expediency by which you've lazily resorted to a popular aphoristic comparison is saddening, given the wide international respect that Canada has—and has squandered and lost during the "rightist" Harper years.

Like I said, a stupid rant.

The only reason I mentioned the American party system is because this is a large board with a lot of Americans, some of which who might not be familiar with exactly where our Conservatives lie in the political spectrum, and so might need a frame of reference. The point I was making is that our left wing party, the NDP, are very left wing in ideals. That's all. 👍

I understand that our nation has traditionally been a bit more radical (and left wing) than our southern neighbours, and it's a part of our identity to an extent. I used to be more liberal, although I have gotten more conservative with age, it just makes more sense with the views and opinions I have developed. Obviously, we're all different and it doesn't make sense for everyone. My opinions tend to vary from issue to issue, but in general, I don't care all that much.

The main thing I think, is to keep the political parties guessing. If we have to elect NDP, fine, but don't let them stay in for longer than one term. Then we can vote for Libs or Cons and let them have a go, while being under pressure of losing their seats if they don't keep us happy. (As a nation, we're usually pretty good at this I think )

In BC, we actually have a problem with this in provincial elections. The Liberals here have become enormously corrupt because relatively few here actually trust the NDP. The Conservatives have never really been strong here, which further compounds the problem. The Greens aren't really an option either, because most likely they would be utter crap at anything other than environmental policies.


All of that is besides the point though. It doesn't really matter who exactly is in power because they're all the same crooked bunch anyways. Like I said, best to keep them on their toes.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

^^ So, following my optimistic post in "Weird people online," I'll just mention:



Pessimistic post:

-The Liberals take all of our money
-The Conservatives aren't entirely competent
-The NDP is NOT even remotely experienced



Is there a way to win?

 

[jcm]

^^ So, following my optimistic post in "Weird people online," I'll just mention:

Pessimistic post:

-The Liberals take all of our money
-The Conservatives aren't entirely competent
-The NDP is NOT even remotely experienced

Is there a way to win?

Vote Green

 

[Joel]

Actually, so far, the history would indicate otherwise. Since neither Russia, China, nor Cuba, had "real" (eg, egressing from a capitalist apotheosis) Communist revolutions, there is no historical basis for this argument—so your appeal to empiricism fails.

Secondly, if we're to be logically strict here, one cannot refute the "it's good in theory" if the correlate of that is one based on experience, since, as I pointed out, there is no real experience. Third, your assertions that Communism "provides no incentive to improve yourself" (and Capitalism does??), "no incentive to work hard", "no incentive to innovate" etc are all negated precisely by the very fact that the labour would have ownership of the means of manufacturing. This provides direct incentive to both work harder, and innovate, since the profits are not being sucked from your energy and funneled into the pockets of management and aloof ownership. You argument is completely nonsenical. Bare in mind that, despite all the trumpeting, there has never been a wholly private economy in the developed world—ever. [/QUOTE]

Yes, I am aware that there has never been a truly private economy in the developed world. I also did not consider the aspect of it (a Communist society) rising from a Capitalist society, now that you pointed that out I do see a difference there (particularly with regards to the motives and ideals of the populace). However, ownership of the means of production doesn't necessarily translate to an incentive for innovation in my opinion. I could definitely understand there'd be a lot of people viewing it as you do, but I could also see a lot of people deciding to ride on the momentum of everyone else. In a communist society, what's the incentive to spend 8 to 10 years training at an intensive level to become a doctor, when you could get an easier job that would likely lead to the same financial stability? There would be a select few benevolent people willing to become doctors regardless, but I guess I'm a little bit cynical about human nature to believe there'd be enough doctors (hell, there aren't enough now because there's less stressful careers available that pay similarly or better).

I still don't understand what you're getting at here because it does not in any way cohere with reality.

What I'm saying is that I consider our health care system to be more expensive and inefficient than it could be. I believe a degree of privatization would be beneficial to the system as a whole. Don't interpret my position as wanting a US-like health care system or an entirely private system (I agree with a private system ideologically, but realistically in Canada's political landscape it doesn't make much sense).

What I find with health care is that costs are rising dramatically (due to a number of factors), partially due to the sheltered nature of the system. Nobody knows what a procedure truly costs, and there's no reason to care because the government picks up the bill anyways. I think if for lower cost and routine medical care that there was more privatization, we would see lower overall health care costs. Right now there's no reason to try to find a deal or to shop around at all, and the cost is the cost and that's it; nobody thinks about it any further.

I don't have a specific proposal, and I understand the issue with it being almost entirely arbitrarily based. I'm speaking from a more broad, ideological and general standpoint, rather than a specific "we should enact this policy" view. I understand that the biggest issue is where to draw the line, obviously Canadian universal health care will never be privatized to a point where people are paying for six figure cancer treatments out of pocket/with private insurance, but I don't think it's too crazy to imagine our system where people are paying $50 at point of service for things like routine checkups.

 

[lalaurentide]

I like the common misunderstanding of french-Canadians from Québec. Seems like no one knows that until the 1960s we were still second class. Now it's fine, but you don't think we will start calling ourselves Canadians after only 50 years of equality? We are Québécois, we will be Canadians the day we trust you. Don't forget we have the political, economic and demographic power of our province, so we still don't know if things have improved because you have, or because we merely shielded ourselves from discrimination.

And yes, if we were to vote on independence now it would be a landslide, but that won't happen as long as the conservatives don't get crazy like down south.

 

[BobK]

So secede already, and get it over with.

It's pretty hard to take this whining about "second-class citizens" seriously when English speakers in Quebec are also treated like second-class citizens. Plus things like signs in Quebec having to have signs in both French and English, just like the rest of Canada. But in Quebec, the French text is required to be twice as big as the English.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

Face it. You guys lost to the British. Get over it.

 

[Joel]

Face it. You guys lost to the British. Get over it.

Grow up.

 

[lalaurentide]

So secede already, and get it over with.

It's pretty hard to take this whining about "second-class citizens" seriously when English speakers in Quebec are also treated like second-class citizens. Plus things like signs in Quebec having to have signs in both French and English, just like the rest of Canada. But in Quebec, the French text is required to be twice as big as the English.

In the 1960s we were still very poor and uneducated compared to the rest of Canada, and exploited by the rich, but that's a problem with the 1% we all share. Now anglophones in Québec are 10% of the population and own 20% of the wealth and go to the best school, so that is not discrimination in any way, shape or form. Some of us call anglo-canadians square heads, but calling people names and treating them on a second standard are two entirely different things. Now though, calling you square-heads is our version of cracker and honkey more than anything else, we use it when someone calls us frogs.

And like I said, life has improved a lot since then, why the hostility: "So secede already, and get it over with."? What's your frustration?

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Sssssshhhhh, enough with the racism.


I don't mean on the thread. I mean, I think it's time we tell our neighbours to stop with it.


There are almost 40 million Canadians now. We all make up this country.


My best friend lived a few years in Iqaluit. That's still Canada. So is Montreal. So is Toronto. So is (shamefully ) Vancouver, even with the drugs and riots.

 

[Grand Prix]

Sssssshhhhh, enough with the racism.


I don't mean on the thread. I mean, I think it's time we tell our neighbours to stop with it.


There are almost 40 million Canadians now. We all make up this country.


My best friend lived a few years in Iqaluit. That's still Canada. So is Montreal. So is Toronto. So is (shamefully ) Vancouver, even with the drugs and riots.

Now now, it was you guys that decided to build the damn railroad so BC wouldn't join the USA or become independent in the first place.

And most of the hockey rioters were from Surrey so that doesn't count.


All in good fun, 👍

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Yeah, Surrey. Because the entire town showed up their and smashed Vancouver... I bet there were more rioters than population in Surrey.



Otherwise, though, it's not your fault everything's crazy with drugs. 'Murrica and China are causing some problems with that stuff, indeed.


Even I live around the corner from a former grow-op. I know the kid, too, I think. He gave my friend some of the "harvest" for free. I never heard from that girl again. No thanks, I'd prefer not to break laws.


Then there was my Grad party from Gr. 12. My god, I was almost puked on 4 times!!

 

[Grand Prix]

Yeah, Surrey. Because the entire town showed up their and smashed Vancouver... I bet there were more rioters than population in Surrey.

Otherwise, though, it's not your fault everything's crazy with drugs. 'Murrica and China are causing some problems with that stuff, indeed.

Well, seeing as Surrey has a population of almost half a million, it's not completely out of the question.

It's true though, the riot was pretty disgusting. I understand why the rest of Canada feels the need to disassociate from Vancouver because of it, but we're still just as Canadian. 'Mericans will just blame all of us in the end.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

So, in effect, contrary to what -Fred- says, Vancouver's actually the arsehole of Canada, and not Quebec, like -Fred- implied, yesterday, in the 2012 Japanese Grand Prix thread.

 

[Mac K]

So this is a thread for bashing Canadians and other fellow Canadians? How nice..

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

The french, (Quebecois in perticular) have never EVER liked the english for one common reason. Patriotism.
Canada, being a colony of Great Britian, was forced into fighting, this meant that the French Canadians had to as well. The dilema was that they were being forced to fight for a country that had just beaten their own.
French vs English is like Ford vs Chevy.. Born to be rivals.
Hopefully I remebered a bit from history class... Correct me If I'm wrong