The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread

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GT4 road surface accuracy difference of 15mm. How does one do that without laser scanning back then?
nurburgring-png.547259

I mean honestly, no journalist anywhere has an article or mentions this.

Why would they laser scan the track and not make a PR statement about it?

Again, from known information the Nurburgring track had never been laser scanned until recently for Forza 5 and AC.
 
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I don't think it's realistic to expect significantly better graphics AND keep it at a solid 60 FPS
Dunno. I'll be honest, I can't tell how well SMS optimized PCars and whether one can squeeze more out of the hardware.

As I said, my expectations might not be fair. And, for me, the question remains: What does the game developed by the (arguably) biggest dev in the business offer that I can't get somewhere else (somewhere else being, for example, the 10 or so guys at Kunos)? Visuals? Sounds? Car list? Customization? Anything out of the ordinary? Granted, I suppose it's perfectly fine for PD to not be a forerunner. They don't need to be to sell millions of copies anyway.
Forza Motorsport 5 is the first game ever made with a laser-scanned version of Nurburgring.

GT4 is the first Gran Turismo title to actually feature Nurburgring.
I can't find any source that suggests that GT's version of the 'Ring is laser scanned, at the very least.
 
Dynamic weather, 45 cars on track. ;) If anything it proves how hard it is.

That was/is a great feat by PC. One of the main reasons I was so happy to bag it on the ps4. For the first time I was given something with challenging AI (not the best I know) and way more than 16 cars on track. The overall experience was way more authentic.... Sadly some of the track and sound effects were poor.

Then I bagged myself a PC and got into proper sim racing. Raceroom allows me to race up-to 99 other AI drivers. 100 cars at the nurburgring is simply awesome.. I look forward to the day when GT can offer such levels of authenticity.
 
Here’s Mr Greenawalt himself with the reason why he thinks this – possibly – is the greatest Green Hell ever captured on a computer game. “Well, it’s by far the most ambitious track we’ve ever done,” begins Dan. “We’ve had the Nürburgring before in the game, but it’s never been delivered like this before. Not by us, and not by anybody.”

Turn 10 were allowed to book the ‘Ring out completely for two days to scan it to their satisfaction. With an all-new, next-gen compatible laser scanning set up to capture every last, unforgiving, terrifying inch. “Laser scanning’s been around for a while,” continues Dan, “and we’d looked at laser scanning at last generation, but found it wasn’t detailed enough for what we really wanted to accomplish. So we invested in new laser scanning rigs and a new process for Forza 5, and most of the tracks were laser scanned.”

“The Nürburgring is an all new laser scan, so it’s getting to that millimetre of accuracy. We had 30 artists who worked on this track, and it took us nearly a year to deliver. That’s 13,000 man hours that went into this track. We want to be something where the professional racecar driver, the Jackie Stewarts of the world, can recognise every little bump, every piece of grass. Can recognise the trees, every building, they can use all those references that most of us have never seen, but they don’t hurt our experience either. So we have this incredibly detailed track that we can learn, and fulfil our fantasies, while having pro drivers able to drive it at any level.”

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/07/turn-10-boss-explains-nurburgring-absence-from-forza-5

All I can scratch up. Also Dan quotes mm of accuracy while the slide quotes 15 mm by PD.

GPS and manually?



This is honestly all I can think of.
 
Layout I understand but surface accuracy like that? Maybe the Facebook person will let on more now so I'll ask him on Friday and hopefully get a proper answer.

It's not even perfectly clear what that statement means. It could simply mean the width of the track, something very possible with GPS data and manually measuring. It doesn't neccesarily mean the entire surface is perfectly accurate as it would with a total laser scan.

Laser scanning any track would have been a huge deal in 2003, I can't believe it would have happened on such a track like the ring without it ever being properly documented or promoted. Also if they did scan the ring, a huge track, why do we see them quite clearly NOT laser scanning Laguna Seca in that video? If you're going to go to the trouble of only doing it for the biggest track in the world, and not others, surely you're going to mention that somewhere?
 
Layout I understand but surface accuracy like that? Maybe the Facebook person will let on more now so I'll ask him on Friday and hopefully get a proper answer.

I think we can confirm GPS now.

"Before Forza 5, we used to use a military-grade GPS system," explains Wendl. "And those systems, while they're very accurate on the horizontal scale, they're fairly bad on the vertical scale."

"So we had to use photos and measurements to gauge vertical variety," says Wendl. "And on a track like this with all kinds of dips and undulations, this thing is just ancient. All that comes through on our new system with millimeter accuracy."

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3...orld-s-most-daunting-race-track/1100-6420174/

There is no way a laser-scanned track would be off by 15mms but even Turn 10 admits that GPS is accurate horizontally.

Layout I understand but surface accuracy like that? Maybe the Facebook person will let on more now so I'll ask him on Friday and hopefully get a proper answer.

"Laser scanning has been around for a while, but it just lacked the quality we needed to get usable information. Now with point cloud data, we get geometry information, but we also get texture and lighting information as well."

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3...orld-s-most-daunting-race-track/1100-6420174/

Laser scanning apparently collects texture data too.

I wish Turn 10 would use that lighting data to fix their lighting system though.

It's not even perfectly clear what that statement means. It could simply mean the width of the track, something very possible with GPS data and manually measuring. It doesn't neccesarily mean the entire surface is perfectly accurate as it would with a total laser scan.

Laser scanning any track would have been a huge deal in 2003, I can't believe it would have happened on such a track like the ring without it ever being properly documented or promoted. Also if they did scan the ring, a huge track, why do we see them quite clearly NOT laser scanning Laguna Seca in that video? If you're going to go to the trouble of only doing it for the biggest track in the world, and not others, surely you're going to mention that somewhere?

That would have been a huge selling point too.
 
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I'm pretty sad about GT Sport.
The game looks good, but the sound is still really really bad. I don't understand how something so important is something that they have done literally nothing about.

How is it a mod team can do something like this;
Yet PD still insist on having cars sounding so horribly?


I'll be picking it up, but I'm pretty disappointed
 
I think we can confirm GPS now.



http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3...orld-s-most-daunting-race-track/1100-6420174/

There is no way a laser-scanned track would be off by 15mms but even Turn 10 admits that GPS is accurate horizontally.





http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3...orld-s-most-daunting-race-track/1100-6420174/

Laser scanning apparently collects texture data too.

I wish Turn 10 would use that lighting data to fix their lighting system though.



That would have been a huge selling point too.
Here's a vid on how they've made Hockenheimring for Forza 4 using that GPS thing:
 
At this rate we could reach nearly 18,000 posts in this thread by release time. Come on everyone!

Ps. By the time this comes out my PS4 racing library will be comprised of Project Cars, Assetto Corsa, DriveClub, and F1 2015, none of which I'll have finished by that time. I'm already very pleased with my overall PS4 experience so far and racing in particular, and I don't imagine GT Sport will change that attitude.
 
Slow down there. I don't think PC's version is laser scanned. In fact I'm almost certain it isn't.

The most impressive version of this track I've experienced has been in RACEROOM RACING EXPERIENCE. There is a wealth of activity in the recreation of the track - crowds cheering, music blasting and all sorts


Yup that's my opinion too, their trees look better and it has a nice trackside atmosphere. GTS's version comes close though in terms of graphics, but if i see how people can attack the track without any grave consequences in some cases, i doubt the track surface and kerbs are as punishing as they should be.
 
Welp there goes your answer for sure guys.

The video just shows how much of a pain in the butt that kind of work is.
That would be sub-foot accurate surface reproduction, bigger than 15mm accuracy difference. @amar212 has said before it might have been the first GT track laser-scanned. PDI don't talk it up much, GT6 has quite a few tracks scanned but still don't see much mention of it. Anyway GT SPORT version looks quite awesome.
 
That would be sub-foot accurate surface reproduction, bigger than 15mm accuracy difference. @amar212 has said before it might have been the first GT track laser-scanned. PDI don't talk it up much, GT6 has quite a few tracks scanned but still don't see much mention of it. Anyway GT SPORT version looks quite awesome.

There is quite simply zero evidence of it happening.
 
That would be sub-foot accurate surface reproduction, bigger than 15mm accuracy difference. @amar212 has said before it might have been the first GT track laser-scanned. PDI don't talk it up much, GT6 has quite a few tracks scanned but still don't see much mention of it. Anyway GT SPORT version looks quite awesome.

A laser scanned track would never be off by 15 mm.

Also a GPS built track can be as accurate as a cm(10mm) horizontally which matches up with the GT4 slide.

I'm sorry but the evidence is stacked against you on this one.
 
GT4. As I say, that quote is technically correct if it's just referring to the vertical GPS data. It doesn't explicitly say it's 15mm accurate in all dimensions.

Not to mention, we're not making a claim and we don't have the burden of proof. You guys are claiming it's laser scanned and we are saying that there isn't any evidence to believe it is.
 
Looks like they just put all their effort into making it look good in photomode since it has such a huge following they think.

I wish they would have done these things instead to make it a true FIA racer:
Improve (fix) sounds.
Improve physics.


edit: after thinking about it it makes about as much sense as the FIA usually does.
 
A laser scanned track would never be off by 15 mm.

Also a GPS built track can be as accurate as a cm(10mm) horizontally which matches up with the GT4 slide.

I'm sorry but the evidence is stacked against you on this one.
Laser-scanned track can be off by more than that.
GT4. As I say, that quote is technically correct if it's just referring to the vertical GPS data. It doesn't explicitly say it's 15mm accurate in all dimensions.
It doesn't say accuracy difference is bigger than 15mm. No GPS data AFAIK is that accurate so would align with what amar212 says about it being laser-scanned.
 
If you're perfectly happy with iRacing, why do you even bother looking at other games at all. It's like a girlfriend, if I'm happy with mine I don't even look at other girls or care to find out if they're better or worse.

Simple iRacing need competition. When Assetto Corsa came out they challenged iRacing in a few areas and iRacing were forced to improve in ways that they may have continued to ignore. This made sim racing better for everyone. The problem is nothing is challenging iRacing at the moment and there are a few things that iRacing needs to improve.

Another reason is iRacing is the only sim that does organised pickup racing moderately well but lately it is something they are even letting slip and it needs to improve and there are a few serious issues with iRacings approach to simulation that they refuse to budge on, things like auto clutch and not being able to stall a car, unrealistic features that should be optional in a serious racing simulation. So I'm always on the lookout for improvement and something better.

iRacing isn't the perfect simulation and there are still things that even some games do better, for example iRacing doesn't have rain yet. I'll keep looking for that perfect racing sim that is as good as the real thing.

Oh and as for the girlfriend thing. I have an incredible wife, I married the perfect woman for me, she is my best friend and makes me happy. When I look at other girls it isn't to find out if they are better or worse and my wife doesn't have an issue with me looking at other girls or even telling her my fantasies.
 
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Laser-scanned track can be off by more than that.

It doesn't say accuracy difference is bigger than 15mm. No GPS data AFAIK is that accurate so would align with what amar212 says about it being laser-scanned.

So just to be clear, your evidence that the GT4 Ring was laser scanned is a single ambiguous quote on a promo slideshow and Amar saying it might have been?
 
The laser scan equipment for topographic ranging and scanning has been available since about mid 90's. The old 90's laser scan is not as accurate like current tech, I think they were about 5mm accurate in theory ( claim by manufacturer ) over 50m distance. The use of laser scan in early 2000 is not really impossible or unlikely. Will need Kaz to confirm :lol:

Back then laser scan use was limited, and not a bragging stuff. Most users were private/gov sector for science or commercial use. A video game maker would not think to put that as selling point when only a few communities knows about laser scan, even more it's use in a game/sim.
 
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To understand whats really going on you need to be able to see past all the double speak, sleight of hand, used car salesman pitches, misdirection, as well as bait and switch tactics Kaz and co. have become so good at.

Very dramatic :lol: I'll give you bonus points if you also add "Listen up sheeple, this is what the damn GTP liberal media don't want you to think!" :P
 
So just to be clear, your evidence that the GT4 Ring was laser scanned is a single ambiguous quote on a promo slideshow and Amar saying it might have been?
He said it was quite a few times IIRC. Like I said before, will ask Facebook person. Hopefully can go into detail about old game at least.
 
The laser scan equipment for topographic ranging and scanning has been available since about mid 90's. The old 90's laser scan is not as accurate like current tech, I think they were about 5mm accurate in theory ( claim by manufacturer ) over 50m distance. The use of laser scan in early 2000 is not really impossible or unlikely. Will need Kaz to confirm :lol:

Back then laser scan use was limited, and not a bragging stuff.


why would laser scanning be 5 mm accuracy in the 90s and 15 mm accuracy in 2000?

That's three times as bad after a decade of advances.

you guys are just digging a deeper hole now.

What is more likely?

A) GT4 used a Nurburgring built using GPS which is know to be in the same accuracy as they claim(15mm vs 10 mm). A method that we even have video of Polyphony using for tracks in GT4.

or

B) GT4 used a Nurburgring laser scanned at 15 mm accuracy when laser scanning 10 years earlier was capable of 5 mm. With no evidence claims or reports of using laser scanning.
 
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why would laser scanning be 5 mm accuracy in the 90s and 15 mm accuracy in 2000?

That's three times as bad after a decade of advances.

you guys are just digging a deeper hole now.

I'm digging a hole ? I'm just stating the history of laser scan use.
 
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