The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread

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That's actually something we've grappled with for the front-page reviews.
I never actually considered the author's point of view, to be perfectly honest... I can't speak for anybody else, obviously, but I certainly feel like catering to that second group, the one that doesn't need (or like) numerical scores, is a good move. If only because it's the somewhat outstanding thing to do 👍
 
Reviews can be a subjective thing at the best of times. My advice would be to find a reviewer that has shown a similar taste and judgement on games you have played in the past and pay the most attention to their opinions over others.

Or read the reviews of friends that you trust. I won't be pre-ordering GTS, but I will be reading the comments of friends that I race online - they will be able to give me their opinions, warts and all. If they are still playing the game a month or so after release I will consider getting a copy.

Back on the topic of "Epic Whining and Crying" - I still think the car list (as revealed so far) with its lack of classic or historic content just doesn't float my boat. Unfortunately although Project Cars and Asetto Corsa contain classic cars they are not grouped / selected logically so it is difficult for a Host to put on anything other than single car series for Historics. Looks like I am stuck with GT6 for that as I can't switch to Forza.
 
Why can't you? What's stopping you?

I've played with a wheel for the last five years. My wheel is not compatible with Xbox so changing console and wheel would be prohibitively expensive. You could say stick with the wheel and play Forza on a Gaming PC, but that would also be expensive, plus I don't have the technical savvy for PC gaming.
 
That's not really true though. People say it is because it's nothing at all like it was ten years ago, but there are still enough half assed crapped out PC versions of very high profile games every once in a while when the console versions just work (one just came out a couple weeks ago); and ease of entry is still something that PC specific developers can get away with putting at the very end of their design docket.
 
So...

For practically any other racing game, one can look forward to the next iteration with a guarantee that it will be fun, great, or groundbreaking while enjoying a fun, great, or groundbreaking game in the interim. The wait between titles usually not being very long.

For Gran Turismo, the wait continues for Polyphony to regain their mojo after nearly a decade of mediocrity, and there’s no guarantee their next game will be any good. This is even after an abnormally long development time.


Maybe it would be easier to regard Gran Turismo with a healthy dose of apathy from now on.
 
This is even after an abnormally long development time.

Not really abnormal for PD, it'll be somewhere in the vicinity of 4 years between GT6 and GTS by the time GTS comes out. Remember, GT5 came out a full 6 years after GT4. Can you imagine anyone waiting until 2019 for GTS? Because that's how long we all waited for GT5 lol.

Edit: Actually, GTS is probably more likely to be released mid next year rather than December, so it'll be more like 3 and a half years, so not much more than the gap between GT5 and 6 really (3 years and one month), and probably less than the gap between GT3 and 4 (3 years and 8 months). So not abnormal at all. It's actually a pretty average wait for a GT game, which is a bit sad lol
 
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Not really abnormal for PD, it'll be somewhere in the vicinity of 4 years between GT6 and GTS by the time GTS comes out. Remember, GT5 came out a full 6 years after GT4. Can you imagine anyone waiting until 2019 for GTS? Because that's how long we all waited for GT5 lol.

Edit: Actually, GTS is probably more likely to be released mid next year rather than December, so it'll be more like 3 and a half years, so not much more than the gap between GT5 and 6 really (3 years and one month), and probably less than the gap between GT3 and 4 (3 years and 8 months). So not abnormal at all. It's actually a pretty average wait for a GT game, which is a bit sad lol

I understand your point and wouldn't have as much of a problem if GT-Sport ends up feeling like some kind of progression over GT6 like GT6 was a progression over GT5, but with the dramatic reduction in weather, tracks and car count I'm a little concerned to say the least.
 
I understand your point and wouldn't have as much of a problem if GT-Sport ends up feeling like some kind of progression over GT6 like GT6 was a progression over GT5, but with the dramatic reduction in weather, tracks and car count I'm a little concerned to say the least.

Oh yeah for sure, I have serious doubts GTS will be worth buying with what we currently know about it. Was just pointing out that PD always take this long to make games.
 
That's not really true though. People say it is because it's nothing at all like it was ten years ago, but there are still enough half assed crapped out PC versions of very high profile games every once in a while when the console versions just work (one just came out a couple weeks ago); and ease of entry is still something that PC specific developers can get away with putting at the very end of their design docket.

Let's be fair, there's half assed crapped out console versions of games too. The difference being on console you're stuck with it, whereas on PC you can have a go at tweaking if you actually care enough.

I would say that the vast majority of games these days are plug and play on PC, or at least require no more than picking your chosen graphics default. The only game I have installed on Steam or Battle.net at the moment that I actually tinkered with is Witcher 3. It didn't require tinkering (because I didn't start doing so until I was about 20 hours in), but I got it running smoother and looking better. Although it had issues on console too if I remember, and people just had to put up with it.

I'd say that if you just get a passable PC and treat it exactly like a console, your experience is only going to be significantly worse if you get really unlucky with the games you buy. If you bought Arkham Knight, No Man's Sky and GTA IV then naturally you'll come to the conclusion that PC gaming sucks.
 
You could say that about 3 of the worst games on console though....

Exactly. And that's the point. There's bad games on both, but the vast majority are plug and play on both.

I installed Rise of the Tomb Raider, and it just worked. I never touched a thing. Same with Civ6, and The Witness, and Sunless Sea (which is surprisingly awesome).

If you're a normal person with average hardware, stuff just works. Because the companies that make PC games know that there's a lot of people out there with your level of hardware and they test for it. The competent companies, anyway. There's always going to be a Hello Games, regardless of platform.
 
Let's be fair, there's half assed crapped out console versions of games too. The difference being on console you're stuck with it, whereas on PC you can have a go at tweaking if you actually care enough.

No, the difference is that when a crappy console port comes out it will least at some level work. It may not be a good experience and some things might not work properly and there may be a much better version of it, like PS3 Orange Box or Project Cars or whatever, and you're screwed if the developer never bothers to fix it; but you can play it. When a crappy PC port comes out there is no guarantee of even that, and due to the nature of PC game distribution those crappy ports rarely ever go away; so the tweaking might come into play to even get it running and/or playable.
You can go and buy San Andreas on Steam just like you can on PS3, PS4, 360 and probably XBone; and it was even re-released at around the same time as those versions because Rockstar needed to make the same music edits as with those versions. There's a decent chance if you choose the Steam version that it won't even launch. You can make the same comparison for other games on PSN and XBL that are also on Steam but may not (or at least had a period where they would not) work at all on the latter (LA Noire, Arkham Knight, GTA IV, Guitar Hero III, Sniper Elite III and Disgaea all come to mind as ones I've had personal experience with; whereas the only game I've ever had on console that occasionally just wouldn't run is Doom 32X). Again, this is nowhere near as bad now as it was when GFWL was being pushed when you couldn't trust any of the games on the service to even work, or ten years before that when there were five or six competing hardware acceleration APIs; but that sort of thing (and the closely related garbage from things like Sim City 5 or Diablo 3) is practically unheard of on consoles to the extent that when it does come up in an ecosystem without patches companies bend over backwards to work it out. You buy a game on a console and it plays. You buy a game on PC and the best you can do say is that it will probably play.



That is a major difference (exacerbated by how lopsided towards nVidia the PC industry tends to be) and that does ward people away from PC games just like the huge dollar amounts people assume are required up front. And the tendency for it to befall ports of top tier console titles in headline grabbing ways seems rather churlish to dismiss as just being bad luck with your game choices.
 
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Sad day, for me anyways. The game isn't out for possibly, another two months.Yet, better graphics will not make this game any better by way of the recent demos.

PD must fine tune that offline portion of the game to meld even with the online mode. I'm practically wanting to get this game solely on the Gr.3 Mustang. I seriously don't believe they can fix the AI in a possible GTS release, two moths from now.
 
Sad day, for me anyways. The game isn't out for possibly, another two months.Yet, better graphics will not make this game any better by way of the recent demos.

PD must fine tune that offline portion of the game to meld even with the online mode. I'm practically wanting to get this game solely on the Gr.3 Mustang. I seriously don't believe they can fix the AI in a possible GTS release, two moths from now.
No way GTS is releasing in January, that guy was obviously mistaken. You don't go from no specific date and no promotion to release in the space of just two months. If it was out in January we'd have known by now.
 
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No way GTS is releasing in January, that guy was obviously mistaken. You don't go from no specific date and no promotion to release in the space of just two months. If it was out in January we'd have known by now.
Speaking about promotion...

Is this going to be some magical mystery tour?
When we got that Gran Touring portion in GT5, that was such a waste. There was a route mapped out and we got skipped from the actual "driving", to get to those TT locations.
This will be more of the same: One car TT to look at scenery for photography.
 
That is a major difference (exacerbated by how lopsided towards nVidia the PC industry tends to be) and that does ward people away from PC games just like the huge dollar amounts people assume are required up front. And the tendency for it to befall ports of top tier console titles in headline grabbing ways seems rather churlish to dismiss as just being bad luck with your game choices.

Churlish? Really? That's what you're going with? :rolleyes:

How many current gen games can you think of that are good on console but bad on PC?

I can think of Arkham Knight. Forza Horizon 3 has problems for some, although UWP is kind of a different thing. The Bioshock remasters are apparently bad, although you'd also have the original versions on PC. I'm sure there are more, but I don't come across them. That's why my perception is that the problems with PC gaming are trivial at best.

You want to tell me I'm wrong, show me all these triple A console titles that are terrible when ported to PC. It's not that I'm unwilling to believe, but I don't see it. Show me.
 
Churlish? Really? That's what you're going with? :rolleyes:

How many current gen games can you think of that are good on console but bad on PC?

I can think of Arkham Knight. Forza Horizon 3 has problems for some, although UWP is kind of a different thing. The Bioshock remasters are apparently bad, although you'd also have the original versions on PC. I'm sure there are more, but I don't come across them. That's why my perception is that the problems with PC gaming are trivial at best.

You want to tell me I'm wrong, show me all these triple A console titles that are terrible when ported to PC. It's not that I'm unwilling to believe, but I don't see it. Show me.

It's near impossible to bring up specific games, as it varies depending on your setup. Some people go through life with no problems, where as some, like myself, constantly experience problems. That's the problem. On a console, I know with just about 100% certainty that my game will work. On a PC, even if my rig lives up to the required specifications, it might not work. This is especially true if you're unfortunate enough to use AMD cards (I don't anymore). Just Cause 3 was basically unplayable on AMD cards according to people on Steam, although I have no personal experience with that game.

So many old games have trouble running on Windows 10. Some are relatively easy fixes. Others, not so much.

Add to that the entirely unnecessary systems like Uplay, Battlenet and Origin, that offer no benefits to consumers, but instead adds another thing that can, and does for some, go wrong. Steam falls in under this category as well, in the sense that it's borderline mandatory on PC, but at least it has eventually become a stable service with a massive library of games.

Then we have the abundance of cheaters online, something you're not likely to ever encounter on console outside of people abusing glitches.

And last, but not least, we have the PC parts themselves, and in my experience, their tendency to break down. I realise that consoles can of course break down too, some more so than others, but I've never had it happen to me. On the other hand, every part in my PC has broken down at some point, resulting in a expensive trip to the dealer. Upgrading my CPU, motherboard, RAM (to 8GB DDR5) and disc drives cost me twice that of my PS4 at release. That's not even including a GPU, one of the more significant parts in the rig.

And yes, if you want to keep it cheap, being PC tech savvy will save you a ton of money. Hell, I had to take my PC down to the PC dealer guys because a BIOS update, necessary for my new GPU to work, refused to install. The error message referred me to the read me file, and the read me file literally said that if this happens, something went wrong. Nothing what so ever to help me fix it. It's like software developers assume that you know your way around a PC, and thus can't be bothered giving out detailed instructions. So yeah, I could add an additional 50% to the price of my GPU because there was no way of installing it myself.

I'm not saying that there aren't good sides to PC gaming, such as mods, better graphics if you have the money, and certain genres such as RTS games. But their ar plenty of prohibitive factors as well, that are mostly not found on consoles.
 
It's near impossible to bring up specific games, as it varies depending on your setup.

To a certain extent, but there are games that are universally bad ports. Arkham Knight doesn't run well on anyone's PC.

Likewise, if you're looking for a stable gaming setup you can build for that. Buy NVidia. Buy Intel. Don't do silly things with overclocking.

Add to that the entirely unnecessary systems like Uplay, Battlenet and Origin, that offer no benefits to consumers, but instead adds another thing that can, and does for some, go wrong. Steam falls in under this category as well, in the sense that it's borderline mandatory on PC, but at least it has eventually become a stable service with a massive library of games.

Someone has to provide the online store. Saying Steam is mandatory is like saying the PSN store or Xbox store is mandatory. Of course they are. Games don't just magically appear on your machine.

On PC you at least have other options if you want, but I wouldn't recommend any of them (except maybe GoG) if you're trying to go the plug and play route. But they exist.

Then we have the abundance of cheaters online, something you're not likely to ever encounter on console outside of people abusing glitches.

Come on, man. Let's at least be serious. Xbox 360 had cheaters by the truckload, and so did PS3 after it was broken.

The only reason that cheaters on console are rare so far is that X1 and PS4 haven't been broken. So far. There are some cheats for certain games, but that's as far as it goes. It's certainly good.

But not all PC games have problems with cheaters (because anti-cheat exists), and not all games even have significant online components. If you play shooters, yeah, maybe you're better on console for that reason. But that's not a strike against the ability to plug and play on PC. That's just the nature of the hardware and the lengths to which developers are willing to go to protect their online experiences.

And last, but not least, we have the PC parts themselves, and in my experience, their tendency to break down. I realise that consoles can of course break down too, some more so than others, but I've never had it happen to me. On the other hand, every part in my PC has broken down at some point, resulting in a expensive trip to the dealer. Upgrading my CPU, motherboard, RAM (to 8GB DDR5) and disc drives cost me twice that of my PS4 at release.

And as I've pointed out, this hasn't been my experience. I've replaced one power supply that I'm not entirely sure was dodgy, but I was chasing a weird problem that wouldn't go away. Upgrading the power supply allowed me to move to a bigger GPU anyway (before they started releasing upgrade cards that were more power efficient).

Let's not even get into the fact that if you're paying $800+ for CPU, MB, RAM and some disc drives you are by definition not the sort of casual player that I'm talking about. Someone who just wants their stuff to work doesn't spend that much, that's enthusiast level gear.

Unless you just have more money than you know what to do with, in which case I'd love some. ;) My entire computer cost about that much.

I've also had two PS3s go on me. But who cares? I know that in general they're pretty reliable, so I don't bring it up as evidence that they aren't. Ditto computer parts. Most of them will last 3+ years, probably at least 5. At which point they'll be worth about 20 bucks and you'll be wondering whether to sell them or just throw them in the bin.

That's not even including a GPU, one of the more significant parts in the rig. So yeah, I could add an additional 50% to the price of my GPU because there was no way of installing it myself.

Or you could find the one tech savvy friend that you undoubtedly have and buy them a case of beer. But realistically, you could just watch a video on youtube of how to install a GPU and realise that it's only slightly more complicated than plugging the console into the TV. Card goes click into the slot, and you plug in the cables that fit into the holes.

It's pretty much foolproof unless you're flinging the card around the room while wearing a woolly sweater and rubbing yourself with plastic bags. I reckon you'd have a way harder time setting up a VR headset than installing a graphics card, if you actually looked into what it entails. Attaching the Kinect to my X360 and getting it set up and calibrated was harder than installing my last graphics card, and the Kinect only has two cables.

Or like, buy DDR4 instead of DDR5. You won't notice the difference and use the money to pay for your install. It will take the teenager at the shop ten minutes, tops.

But their ar plenty of prohibitive factors as well, that are mostly not found on consoles.

Of course there are, but you can absolutely have a plug and play experience on PC. If you want to. I find that the people that complain about it being complicated are mostly making it complicated for themselves.

On the other hand, console does not allow for the kind of freedom and customisation that PC does and never will, by design.
 
Someone has to provide the online store. Saying Steam is mandatory is like saying the PSN store or Xbox store is mandatory. Of course they are. Games don't just magically appear on your machine.

On PC you at least have other options if you want, but I wouldn't recommend any of them (except maybe GoG) if you're trying to go the plug and play route. But they exist..

Yes, PSN and XBOX Live are tied in their respective consoles, but outside of them hosting game servers and patches, I am not forced to use them, nor do I have to deal with 3rd party DRM services, such as Uplay or Origin. On the other hand, several games on PC outright require you to use Steam, Origin or Uplay, with no (legal) way around it. I despise being forced to use these "services" because they bring me no benefit.


Come on, man. Let's at least be serious. Xbox 360 had cheaters by the truckload, and so did PS3 after it was broken.

The only reason that cheaters on console are rare so far is that X1 and PS4 haven't been broken. So far. There are some cheats for certain games, but that's as far as it goes. It's certainly good.

But not all PC games have problems with cheaters (because anti-cheat exists), and not all games even have significant online components. If you play shooters, yeah, maybe you're better on console for that reason. But that's not a strike against the ability to plug and play on PC. That's just the nature of the hardware and the lengths to which developers are willing to go to protect their online experiences..

I have never encountered a cheater on console as far as I am aware, nor have I ever read any article or piece of game related news talking about any problems with cheaters on console. On PC, however, it's a different story. The only PvP game I play on PC these days is R6: Siege, and as I stay away from ranked, I don't experience that many cheaters. But when Ubisoft first released Battle Eye, an anti cheat system for R6: Siege, the amount of people getting banned was absurd. You couldn't play a match without 10 names popping up on the side of the screen, because the system notified every player in any match who was being banned, even if they weren't playing with the person being banned.

Back in my CS days, cheating was the norm. I'd be outright amazed when you had a game without a cheater. It's true that this isn't a strike against PC's being plug and play though. Fair point.


And as I've pointed out, this hasn't been my experience. I've replaced one power supply that I'm not entirely sure was dodgy, but I was chasing a weird problem that wouldn't go away. Upgrading the power supply allowed me to move to a bigger GPU anyway (before they started releasing upgrade cards that were more power efficient).

Let's not even get into the fact that if you're paying $800+ for CPU, MB, RAM and some disc drives you are by definition not the sort of casual player that I'm talking about. Someone who just wants their stuff to work doesn't spend that much, that's enthusiast level gear.

I wouldn't classify me as casual by any stretch either. That said, I have no idea how good the equipment was. I just told them I wanted something that was somewhat future proof, without costing too much, and that RTS game in particular was the focus. Hence a good processor made sense.


Or you could find the one tech savvy friend that you undoubtedly have and buy them a case of beer. But realistically, you could just watch a video on youtube of how to install a GPU and realise that it's only slightly more complicated than plugging the console into the TV. Card goes click into the slot, and you plug in the cables that fit into the holes.

It's pretty much foolproof unless you're flinging the card around the room while wearing a woolly sweater and rubbing yourself with plastic bags. I reckon you'd have a way harder time setting up a VR headset than installing a graphics card, if you actually looked into what it entails. Attaching the Kinect to my X360 and getting it set up and calibrated was harder than installing my last graphics card, and the Kinect only has two cables.

Or like, buy DDR4 instead of DDR5. You won't notice the difference and use the money to pay for your install. It will take the teenager at the shop ten minutes, tops..

I think you misread what I said. I know how to plug in a GPU, but my PC wasn't registering it because the BIOS needed to be updated. So I plugged in my old GPU, downloaded the drivers, confirmed that they were correct and attempted an install, which failed. I tried to find a solution online, but couldn't find anything that was on my level of expertise.

That is when I went to the shop to have them do it for me. As for the RAM, it was fitted when my PC had a complete overhaul, which I felt I had to had them do, as I doubt I can install a motherboard and so on myself. There was very little price difference between the different RAM, so I went with DDR5. Or at least I think it's DDR5 :D


On the other hand, console does not allow for the kind of freedom and customisation that PC does and never will, by design.

True, and guess what. Many people, including myself, like that. I like not having to worry about anything. I like knowing that the people I am playing with or against don't have advantages due to a better setup. I like that I don't have to fiddle around with graphical settings, and feel like I'm missing out if I can't max them out. Best of all, I love that games are actually optimized for the systems, meaning that even though consoles have significantly less power than a beefy PC, they'll still manage comparable graphics at a significantly lower cost.

While I can see the appeal of customization for people who know what they're doing and know about the actual components, I would never consider it a plus for consoles to allow that. That said, I do envy PC's the ability to consistently use old hardware, such as racing wheels.
 
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