The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[mister dog]

This all coming from the same person that gave a perfect score to a version of a game he hasn't even played...

Ridox that you? Does that have anything to do with what I just posted? Maybe you could make that your base argument to try and ridicule me whenever you see fit?

Opinions can't be debunked — that's the whole point.

"I like vinegar on my fish and chips, more than any other condiment out there." - Go on, debunk away.

Ok then...

The issue here is you presenting an opinion ("the series has been in a steady decline for about 6 years now") as a fact. You may think it, I may think it, but it's such a vague statement that there's no way to prove it one way or the other. The only thing you could argue is hard evidence is the sales figures, but even then, there's so many outside factors that could have influenced the tally.

While a good chunk of those really have been advanced within the genre, GT's in-game community aspect still is pretty outstanding IMO. There's quite a lot of features there that no other game nails down right now.

Ok ok next time I'll put IMO in front of it again, then we can avoid the whole 'opinion as fact' discussion and actually talk about the content of the post. If you (or anyone else), can come up with a good argument that GT has not been in a steady decline these past 6 years I'd be glad to hear it.

Plus, Assetto Corsa has so far provided a great example of how not to handle the online aspect of a game. So, uh, there's that.

Where did I say AC has a great online mode exactly? With regards to community features I'd wager that the Forza series has surpassed GT too (IMO).

 

[NLxAROSA]

This is not how a discussion works imho.

Neither is jumping in with a salty tears remark and not addressing any arguments made. So can you guys call it even?

The only real big evolution is that it's not yet on PS4.

But that's a pretty huge thing. I think a lot of people in here are not disappointed per se by what they've seen so far from GTS (I know I'm not) or what they've planned (looks great if they can pull it off), but more that they're virtually the only first party left with no racing title out on the current-gen platform, while others have (some even multiple). And it will remain like that for a large part of next year. It's worrying, especially given PD's track record of overpromise/underdeliver.

As for @mister dog 's remark about living in the past when playing GT: you can only play GT on obsolete/past/old gen platforms today, so he has a point. Not that you can't enjoy it of course, but the differences with current-gen are obvious, the age is showing.

But for me it's still the most relevant as the GT6 and especially the WRS community is great and I haven't seen such a great group of nice fair and clean racers on another platform.

But is that a testament to the great people of GTP or the game? (Did we ever have something like WRS for other games?).

 

[Mike_grpA]

Most people at one point had the same attitude towards 1080p, oh look now the ONLY TVs you can buy are 1080p

Yeah and that point was a decade ago. Exactly why UHD TVs won't be the standard for a long time, we've been here before, we know how long it takes.

Anyway I don't know what that has to do with my point, that using all the extra grunt the Scorpio provides on upping the resolution to 4K is a waste of resources that could be better put to use on improving other aspects of the games. The original point I made was that in order to provide the next Forza game with a 4k native resolution, T10 would have to have it run at 30fps, and it'd take a graphical downgrade and probably downgrades in other areas too to hit the target. I'm sure most gamers would happily trade 4k resolution for guaranteed locked 60fps, with a significant boost in graphics over FM6, dynamic time and weather, and more.

 

[AKps3]

This all coming from the same person that gave a perfect score to a version of a game he hasn't even played...

That's one reason why I can't take this guy serious anymore

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Ridox that you? Does that have anything to do with what I just posted? Maybe you could make that your base argument to try and ridicule me whenever you see fit?

I'm simply pointing it out because I don't expect the most objective or unbiased views from someone that does that.

Ok ok next time I'll put IMO in front of it again, then we can avoid the whole 'opinion as fact' discussion and actually talk about the content of the post. If you (or anyone else), can come up with a good argument that GT has not been in a steady decline these past 6 years I'd be glad to hear it.

Again though, that's in incredibly vague statement. Decline in what sense? Sales? Yep. Public perception? Maybe; it's certainly down in places like GTPlanet, but we're not exactly representative of the general gaming public. By dint of becoming members of a fan website, we exist on the fringe.

I have a few friends who still are confused by my owning both PS4 and XB1, and playing a lot of Forza. They swear it's the less realistic game, despite never really playing it, and spending something like <100 hours on the PS3 GT games. Ingrained opinions are hard to shake, and I don't think these buddies are isolated examples. For a lot of people, "GT" still carries a lot of weight.

If we look at things in another way, GT's on the rise. What other developer has been courted by as many manufacturers for things like GT Academy and Vision GT? Who has the FIA partnered up with, again?

I mean, I'm as skeptical about those things as anybody else — they've always struck me as marketing rubber-stamps first, with very little to offer in terms of a better gameplay experience for Joe Gamer — but there's got to be a reason these organizations head to Polyphony first.

Where did I say AC has a great online mode exactly? With regards to community features I'd wager that the Forza series has surpassed GT too (IMO).

Oh, you didn't, I'm simply pointing out that (some) modern games could learn a thing or two from GT6, even with as lopsided as it is. I think a developer would have to really, really try to make a worse online mode than AC's on console.

Forza, in many ways, has GT beat in terms of community features, yeah. The Auction House, the ease with which we can share tunes/liveries, Rivals, etc etc. It's still missing a handful of features GT has though. Clubs aren't as robust in FH3: I can't post an event up on the GTPlanet club to share with its members. That's a bit disappointing considering the power of the Forza Blueprint feature.

In the Motorsport series, it's still impossible to host a simple track day. Racing online requires an actual race to be run, and sometimes, people just want to drive at their own pace, with others online. I used to host near-daily Nurburgring track days via the GTPlanet chat room during GT5's time, and it was always a blast. More games need that, IMO.

That's one reason why I can't take this guy serious anymore

Well now, let's be fair: it's almost a certainty that some members here would do the exact same thing if given the opportunity with GT Sport (voting it a 10/10 without playing).

 

[Tornado]

That's one reason why I can't take this guy serious anymore

There was thread poll comparing physics accuracy between Gt5 and Forza 4 a bunch of years ago with hundreds, perhaps thousands of votes. GT won by a landslide, yet if you actually read the thread it was clear that many (though not all) of the people who voted as such and then bothered to actually post had never touched any Forza game, or at best (a la Zer0) using Forza 3 as a stand in for Forza 4 but just voted out of hand anyway.



That mentality never went away.

 

[mister dog]

I'm simply pointing it out because I don't expect the most objective or unbiased views from someone that does that.

That was on Metacritic where a lot of people hand out 0's or 2's in order to get the average score down, i countered that with a 10 as AC doesn't deserve an average score of 5 because of a few trolls, and i'm not alone in doing so over there.
Anyhow it's a weak argument that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic on hand that we are discussing here, it only serves to hand out a cheap shot below the belt. It's playing the man and not the ball.

Again though, that's in incredibly vague statement. Decline in what sense?

I bet you know very well what i mean with the GT being in a steady decline since 6 years now (when GT5 was released). It means that in 2010 the GT series found itself in a stalemate, it didn't feel like a top notch quality racing game as the 4 games before that felt, and in many areas it became worse (chase the rabbit was introduced, standard cars that were ported straight from PS2 made up more than half the roster). there was also next to no innovation to the career mode, sounds, AI... the list goes on.

That's one reason why I can't take this guy serious anymore

Couldn't care less.

 

[AKps3]

Couldn't care less.

Thank God and GTP for the Ignore button

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Yeah and that point was a decade ago. Exactly why UHD TVs won't be the standard for a long time, we've been here before, we know how long it takes.

Anyway I don't know what that has to do with my point, that using all the extra grunt the Scorpio provides on upping the resolution to 4K is a waste of resources that could be better put to use on improving other aspects of the games. The original point I made was that in order to provide the next Forza game with a 4k native resolution, T10 would have to have it run at 30fps, and it'd take a graphical downgrade and probably downgrades in other areas too to hit the target. I'm sure most gamers would happily trade 4k resolution for guaranteed locked 60fps, with a significant boost in graphics over FM6, dynamic time and weather, and more.

I think the 4k adoption rate is much higher than you think. 1080p panels are actually becoming scarce at places like best buy. I bought a 4k not because I care at all about 4k, but because all of the "good" TV's available now (good meaning more important things like deep blacks, high contrast ratio, local dimming with full-led back lighting, HDR, good panel design, etc) are pretty much all 4k. Can you even buy a 1080p HDR TV? I'm not sure you can. So basically, because of production-side economies of scale, I think most TV makers are trying to phase out 1080p. It's just not economical to support both. The good news is that 4k isn't really more expensive than 1080p if all else is equal....the bad news is if you bought a 1080p TV a few years ago with the intention of holding onto it for 5-10 years...

 

[Johnnypenso]

.the bad news is if you bought a 1080p TV a few years ago with the intention of holding onto it for 5-10 years...

....it'll still be a perfectly good tv that will work with all available media?

 

[Imari]

The good news is that 4k isn't really more expensive than 1080p if all else is equal....the bad news is if you bought a 1080p TV a few years ago with the intention of holding onto it for 5-10 years...

It'll still look just as good as it did when you bought it, but you won't be able to wave your telly willy in the neighbours faces.

Seriously, so much of this stuff is just an e-peen comparison contest. Who cares if you don't have the latest and greatest rubbish that the electronics companies are trying to get you to waste your money on? Does it make you somehow less of a person?

If someone bought a TV to last 10 years then obviously they're not a massive media nut, so they'll be fine.

 

[Mike_grpA]

It'll still look just as good as it did when you bought it, but you won't be able to wave your telly willy in the neighbours faces.

Seriously, so much of this stuff is just an e-peen comparison contest. Who cares if you don't have the latest and greatest rubbish that the electronics companies are trying to get you to waste your money on? Does it make you somehow less of a person?

If someone bought a TV to last 10 years then obviously they're not a massive media nut, so they'll be fine.

Exactly. I bought my tv around 3 and a half years ago, and guess what? Most TV shows are still in a much lower resolution than 1080p, most of my movie collection (at least 90% of it) isn't in 1080p, and only now are consoles consistently outputting 1080p games at a respectable frame rate.

I really can't see why anyone thinks 4K is going to become the standard in anything within the next 5 years.

 

[queleuleu]

I really enjoy playing Forza 6 and FH3. Fun and polished, something that Poly has forgotten. But at the same time, I miss GT tracks like Trial mountain, Suzuka and its gorgeous replays. Stop showing us boring track like the Oval, I want to see how Deep Forest would look like with 3d trees at sunset^^ They have showed so little of GTsport, they must have something else big (I hope). Yep it's a optimistic post!

 

[NLxAROSA]

I really can't see why anyone thinks 4K is going to become the standard in anything within the next 5 years.

Not sure how it's on your end of the globe, but over here prices have come down to the point they are at or below the level I bought my 1080p TV for a few years ago. The situation is very different from a year ago. 1080p TVs are in the bargain bin so to speak.

But that's a bit off topic.

 

[fatkid]

I'm sorry I mentioned about native 4k. Kinda set the conversation on different path - which was not my intention. The next FM and GT will more than likely feature upscaled to 4k resolution on their upgraded new consoles, respectively.

The point I was trying to make was this: with FM6 and FH3 and the introduction of the Xbox scorpio, T10 have the potential to provide myself, and am sure many others the most complete simcade racing experience. During the PS1 and PS2 eras of the GT series alot of the things I hoped would be included in the future GT's instead started appearing in the FM series where as GT seems to have taken longer to adapt things I thought were a natural progression of the series. And in some areas GT took a completely different route. GT's great selection of cars, educational license tests, tuning, interactive replay mode, data logger, photo mode, during the ps1 & 2 days were something new and fresh, but also things that I felt relevant to the genre. Things that no other game offered, and I felt spolied by in the early days. T10, as is well known, were inspired by PD and the GT series, and alot of features that they included were no doubt influenced by PD and what I and probably some others thought PD would introduce during PD's percieved era of superiority - something that I also believed at the time. Things like a livery editor, car clubs, drag racing, visual damage, mechanical damage, smarter a.i, and dare I say it; even the holy grail, which is the Porsche license. All these things I felt were a natural progression of the GT's series before I even heard of FM. Where as PD introduced irelevant stuff like star mapping, moon racing, unrealistic vision GT cars, chasing the rabbit type trials to mask the uncompetitive a.i, and probably a few others if I think about it.

What I feel honestly now is that T10 have taken the spirit of the GT series of the ps1 & 2 era and given me the natural progression of where I wanted GT to go. They have basically out 'Gran Turismo'd' Gran Turismo. Where I feel that praise and adulation that PD rightly received by many, myself included, put them in such a position of self percieved superiority, that they believe that anything that they now touch turns to gold, and feel almost beyond reproach. Despite the relative small sales of GT6 compared to previous games in the series, it still far outsold other racing games. But like they say: Why try harder when you are on top?!

The king is dead. Long live the king.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I'm sorry I mentioned about native 4k. Kinda set the conversation on different path - which was not my intention. The next FM and GT will more than likely feature upscaled to 4k resolution on their upgraded new consoles, respectively.

The point I was trying to make was this: with FM6 and FH3 and the introduction of the Xbox scorpio, T10 have the potential to provide myself, and am sure many others the most complete simcade racing experience. During the PS1 and PS2 eras of the GT series alot of the things I hoped would be included in the future GT's instead started appearing in the FM series where as GT seems to have taken longer to adapt things I thought were a natural progression of the series. And in some areas GT took a completely different route. GT's great selection of cars, educational license tests, tuning, interactive replay mode, data logger, photo mode, during the ps1 & 2 days were something new and fresh, but also things that I felt relevant to the genre. Things that no other game offered, and I felt spolied by in the early days. T10, as is well known, were inspired by PD and the GT series, and alot of features that they included were no doubt influenced by PD and what I and probably some others thought PD would introduce during PD's percieved era of superiority - something that I also believed at the time. Things like a livery editor, car clubs, drag racing, visual damage, mechanical damage, smarter a.i, and dare I say it; even the holy grail, which is the Porsche license. All these things I felt were a natural progression of the GT's series before I even heard of FM. Where as PD introduced irelevant stuff like star mapping, moon racing, unrealistic vision GT cars, chasing the rabbit type trials to mask the uncompetitive a.i, and probably a few others if I think about it.

What I feel honestly now is that T10 have taken the spirit of the GT series of the ps1 & 2 era and given me the natural progression of where I wanted GT to go. They have basically out 'Gran Turismo'd' Gran Turismo. Where I feel that praise and adulation that PD rightly received by many, myself included, put them in such a position of self percieved superiority, that they believe that anything that they now touch turns to gold, and feel almost beyond reproach. Despite the relative small sales of GT6 compared to previous games in the series, it still far outsold other racing games. But like they say: Why try harder when you are in top?!

The king is dead. Long live the king.

Don't see why you should fix something that isn't broken...

 

[Mike_grpA]

Not sure how it's on your end of the globe, but over here prices have come down to the point they are at or below the level I bought my 1080p TV for a few years ago. The situation is very different from a year ago. 1080p TVs are in the bargain bin so to speak.

But that's a bit off topic.

That completely misses the point though. Consoles are still a long way from being able to output native 4K without severely compromising the game in a number of ways, and TV stations still mostly don't even transmit in 1080p yet, let alone 4K. 4K is a long way from becoming the standard, and I see no benefit to devs working with current gen console hardware (including the PS4 Pro and Scorpio) to sacrificing so much of the game's performance just to go for a resolution that the vast majority of people don't care about anyway.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I see no harm if it's one like in GT4, a special HD mode back in PS2 days was very rare So, just put a special option under display for optional 2K / 4K res with specific graphic options, maybe with optional 30fps mode ( higher graphic options ). It shouldn't take much time to implement.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Upscaled or not, 4k is already here. This gen, not in 5-10 years. The hardware is here (TVs, GPUs) or soon here (consoles) and it's no more expensive than 1080p was two-three years ago. The same is true for content, it's all there already, though in small amounts. But it's definitely not going to take another 5-10 years to become mainstream. In 5-10 years we'll be looking at 8k or further.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Well, there's already 8K set top box in Japan

 

[NLxAROSA]

Well, there's already 8K set top box in Japan

Indeed. And in 3 years from now we'll be looking at the successors of the PS4 Pro/Scorpio. Whenever the hardware is there, content follows quickly. It's always been like that. A year ago, the hardware wasn't there or very expensive. Today is different.

 

[scourgehedge]

Polyphony stuffed up.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Polyphony stuffed up, They should've released Gran turismo 6 as a PS4 launch title but they didn't. Gran turismo sport has been delayed until 2017 and in that time their main competitor Forza released 4 games!

Strictly speaking, that's not true: it's only 3 games. FM5 released before GT6 did.

Depending on the length of the delay though, we could see FM7 before GT Sport.

 

[Brend]

That was on Metacritic where a lot of people hand out 0's or 2's in order to get the average score down, i countered that with a 10 as AC doesn't deserve an average score of 5 because of a few trolls, and i'm not alone

In your opinion. Metacritic is measuring a 'game' score, not 'simulation' score. 5/10 is perfectly fair for the console version of Assetto Corsa at launch in my opinion if all 5 points are for it's brilliant simulation since nothing else from a game-design perspective merits worthwhile praise. I wish I could take solace in the 'it's a small team' argument like many can do but when it's £30 being taken from my account it automatically gets judged against any other title at that price-point.

There's no denying Gran Turismo is in a tricky spot but I wouldn't outright say it has been in decline for the past 6 years when it's still competing at the level of other superior* games. Times and opinions change but as far as I'm concerned the sheer critical opinion the GT series has brought - mostly on this forum - is due to just how much more popular it is than anything else in it's category and people's wish for it to succeed.

As hard as I find it to believe, Gran Turismo's absence on PS4 to date probably isn't noticed by many who aren't 'GT fans' - but I assure you when it does arrive it will still do well in relative terms to the rest of it's 'competitors' in a general racing genre sense.

 

[mister dog]

In your opinion. Metacritic is measuring a 'game' score, not 'simulation' score. 5/10 is perfectly fair for the console version of Assetto Corsa at launch in my opinion if all 5 points are for it's brilliant simulation since nothing else from a game-design perspective merits worthwhile praise. I wish I could take solace in the 'it's a small team' argument like many can do but when it's £30 being taken from my account it automatically gets judged against any other title at that price-point.

As you say opinions. People will agree with you or with me so we can't really debate that much. Point was more why i gave it a 10 to counter 0's and 2's. I hope you agree AC on consoles doesn't deserve 0's and 2's though

There's no denying Gran Turismo is in a tricky spot but I wouldn't outright say it has been in decline for the past 6 years when it's still competing at the level of other superior* games.

In terms of sales yes. In terms of overall quality...

Times and opinions change but as far as I'm concerned the sheer critical opinion the GT series has brought - mostly on this forum - is due to just how much more popular it is than anything else in it's category and people's wish for it to succeed.

I bet the fact that tons of us GTP'ers started out with GT back in the day, contributes more to how popular GT threads still are. Many of us used to be hardcore fans, so naturally we still follow the franchise. Also i think a lot us already gave up hope on the 'wishing to succeed' thoughts, seeing what direction Kaz has taken with his game in these past 6 years.

As hard as I find it to believe, Gran Turismo's absence on PS4 to date probably isn't noticed by many who aren't 'GT fans' - but I assure you when it does arrive it will still do well in relative terms to the rest of it's 'competitors' in a general racing genre sense.

Because of the logo on the box. I believe GTS will be a deal breaker though as many of the casuals that buy GT simply won't expect an iracing clone this time around. Let alone the absence of the classic GT car collecting theme.

 

[Brend]

No game deserves a zero!

As you say opinions. People will agree with you or with me so we can't really debate that much. Point was more why i gave it a 10 to counter 0's and 2's. I hope you agree AC on consoles doesn't deserve 0's and 2's though


In terms of sales yes. In terms of overall quality...


I bet the fact that tons of us GTP'ers started out with GT back in the day, contributes more to how popular GT threads still are. Many of us used to be hardcore fans, so naturally we still follow the franchise. Also i think a lot us already gave up hope on the 'wishing to succeed' thoughts, seeing what direction Kaz has taken with his game in these past 6 years.


Because of the logo on the box. I believe GTS will be a deal breaker though as many of the casuals that buy GT simply won't expect an iracing clone this time around. Let alone the absence of the classic GT car collecting theme.

 

[JKgo]

No game deserves a zero!

...Clearly, you haven't played a 1992 arcade game called Warriors of Fate by Capcom.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

No game deserves a zero!

No game deserves a ten! There's no such thing as perfect game Give me any game, and I will find something to complain soon or later

 

[Johnnypenso]

No game deserves a ten! There's no such thing as perfect game Give me any game, and I will find something to complain soon or later

Of course they do. Game reviews aren't just technical analysis looking for what is technically perfect, they are also about overall satisfaction, replayability, longetivity, depth, fun etc. A game can be technically imperfect but still extremely satisfying.

 

[Godarm]

...Clearly, you haven't played a 1992 arcade game called Warriors of Fate by Capcom.

because @Brend is not that old?

game can be technically imperfect but still extremely satisfying.

because @Ridox2JZGTE is never satisfied?