The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[Johnnypenso]

I wouldn't consider Forza over-the-top. But there's one thing in this series that irks me a lot - the rewinding feature. Sure, I can unbind the rewind or just ignore the button its binded on, but its sole existence feels wrong to me. That's like a cheap way to win the race or set a good lap time.

I'm not sure you really understand how the feature works in the game. It really sounds like you're being negative just for the sake of being negative.

 

[SiriusR]

I'm not sure you really understand how the feature works in the game. It really sounds like you're being negative just for the sake of being negative.

I've actually used (and abused) it, so I know what I'm talking about.

 

[ImaRobot]

I've actually used (and abused) it, so I know what I'm talking about.

Than you should know that you can not use it to set a good lap time at all. As soon as you use it, it invalidates the whole lap, like @wolfsburgraz has noted, putting you even lower than the slowest racers that set a clean lap. However you use it outside of that in career mode, is up to you. Whether you use it to correct a huge mistake you've made, or just get upset at how trigger happy the Ai can be at times. That is a non-issue, to be honest.

 

[SiriusR]

Than you should know that you can not use it to set a good lap time at all. As soon as you use it, it invalidates the whole lap, like @wolfsburgraz has noted, putting you even lower than the slowest racers that set a clean lap. However you use it outside of that in career mode, is up to you. Whether you use it to correct a huge mistake you've made, or just get upset at how trigger happy the Ai can be at times. That is a non-issue.

Well, the shop demo didn't go into so much of detail - it just lets you use the feature without any further explanation of its drawbacks. Thank you for explanation regardless.

 

[ImaRobot]

Well, the shop demo didn't go into so much of detail - it just lets you use the feature without any further explanation of its drawbacks. Thank you for explanation regardless.

Well then it doesn't sound like you "used and abused it" from the sounds of it. You definitely used it, but obviously not enough to go into detail about. If you didn't know as such, no need to claim it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I've actually used (and abused) it, so I know what I'm talking about.

That is a demonstrably false statement considering you thought you could use the feature to set a good lap time.

 

[Imari]

That's like a cheap way to win the race or set a good lap time.

Given that no game currently has AI that doesn't make the occasional boneheaded move, I find it to be very effective at stopping me from tearing my hair out. Whenever the game does something that is legitimately BS, I simply rewind and move on instead of getting frustrated and having to repeat the last 5+ minutes.

Let's be honest, all racing games have this problem vs AI to a greater or lesser degree. Having a "let's try that again" button for the casual player is a positive, not a negative. If you want to be hardcore, don't use it. Others have already pointed out why the lap time thing is false.

Games like Forza and Gran Turismo are designed to be approachable and fun. Rewind helps that. A lot.

 

[SiriusR]

Having a "let's try that again" button for the casual player is a positive, not a negative. If you want to be hardcore, don't use it. Others have already pointed out why the lap time thing is false.

Games like Forza and Gran Turismo are designed to be approachable and fun. Rewind helps that. A lot.

(hence why quick savestates exist as well)
I find the restart option less cheaty, as you still have to do the entire lap again - something, unlike rewind, plausibly possible in real life - but then, I've already been proven to be not knowledged enough on the subject of rewind. Then again, as I've already said, as long as it can be completely disabled, I'm fine with it.

GT also had its weird driving aids. Like, in GT4 and GTPSP the game shows at which gear you should approach the corner. And, unlike rewind or optimal line, it can't be switched off.

 

[Imari]

(hence why quick savestates exist as well)

In racing games? On a per corner basis? On console?

The only place I've seen real quick savestates is on emulators, and even then you have to actively push a button to save instead of simply being able to revert to an earlier state by default. If you forget to push the button every thirty seconds, you lose the ability to jump back small amounts, and it's significantly disruptive to the racing experience.

Rewind is very similar to regular checkpointing in a platformer or action game. It's simply a recognition that a failure state in a racing game is often only obvious to the player, and that the computer is usually going to do a poor job of choosing a "safe" place to restart from. Platformers and action games moved on from limited numbers of lives and rare save points because that's more frustrating than challenging. It sucks to have to do five minutes of running just to get back to the difficult jumping bit again. The same could be thought of a racing game, it sucks to have to cruise through the five minutes of racing that you already did just in order to get up to the bit that you failed at again.

Modern games tend to be more respectful of players time than simply saying "do it all again". Partially because the demographic has changed, and gamers are assumed now not to be children/teenagers without other demands on their time, partially simply because better ways of designing games have been found. A good game requires you to repeat only the part that you failed at, no more.

There are other ways around this than rewind. But for a single player mode with strictly defined goals, it's quite a good one.

 

[NLxAROSA]

GT also had its weird driving aids. Like, in GT4 and GTPSP the game shows at which gear you should approach the corner. And, unlike rewind or optimal line, it can't be switched off.

If I recall correctly it's also in GT5 and GT6, though in the latter it can be turned off. It also blinks to indicate when you need to shift up/down.

 

[SiriusR]

The only place I've seen real quick savestates is on emulators

Not only on them. They also exist on - may admins forgive me mentioning this - fl*** c*******es. Yes, I haven't seen them on disc-based consoles, but who knows what kind of workarounds exist for them...

and even then you have to actively push a button to save instead of simply being able to revert to an earlier state by default. If you forget to push the button every thirty seconds, you lose the ability to jump back small amounts, and it's significantly disruptive to the racing experience.

Sure, they're not functionally identical, but their purpose is very similar - to let the player repeat from a certain point of level without having to get through the entire level again.

Rewind is very similar to regular checkpointing in a platformer or action game.

Except that in platformers or action games they work when you die. You don't die in racing games (unless the game has high emphasis on the damage model). On the contrary, I often could still catch up with the opponents if I screw up somewhere. But maybe it's just me.

Platformers and action games moved on from limited numbers of lives and rare save points because that's more frustrating than challenging. It sucks to have to do five minutes of running just to get back to the difficult jumping bit again. The same could be thought of a racing game, it sucks to have to cruise through the five minutes of racing that you already did just in order to get up to the bit that you failed at again.

Modern games tend to be more respectful of players time than simply saying "do it all again". Partially because the demographic has changed, and gamers are assumed now not to be children/teenagers without other demands on their time

That also gave birth to a stereotype of "casual gamers" who depend on gaming aids and easy difficulty a lot. An they also are often associated with children or teenagers.

A good game requires you to repeat only the part that you failed at, no more.

That may kind of ruin the challenge, no?

 

[Imari]

Not only on them. They also exist on - may admins forgive me mentioning this - fl*** c*******es. Yes, I haven't seen them on disc-based consoles, but who knows what kind of workarounds exist for them...

There's way too much censoring in that for me to have any idea what you're talking about.

Sure, they're not functionally identical, but their purpose is very similar - to let the player repeat from a certain point of level without having to get through the entire level again.

Correct. Quick save is just a more intrusive implementation than rewind is.

Except that in platformers or action games they work when you die. You don't die in racing games (unless the game has high emphasis on the damage model). On the contrary, I often could still catch up with the opponents if I screw up somewhere. But maybe it's just me.

It's just you and the gameplay style that Gran Turismo has become known for. In Gran Turismo, you can absolutely have a big off and still win, in particular because some of the games will actually slow down for you.

In a racing game where you're playing at a level of difficulty that is actually a reasonable challenge of your skill, a major mistake is the race lost.

That also gave birth to a stereotype of "casual gamers" who depend on gaming aids and easy difficulty a lot. An they also are often associated with children or teenagers.

Is there something wrong with casual gamers enjoying games, even if that requires aids or easier difficulties? I don't see how this impacts how you play the game.

That may kind of ruin the challenge, no?

No. The challenge is the difficult part. Not the easy yet time consuming part to get to the difficult part. If the difficult part is maintaining a certain level of performance for a certain level of time, that's a different sort of challenge. I will stick with a good game only requires you to repeat what you failed at, no more.

Look at it this way, you don't expect to start the entire game over when you lose a race. Why not? Why should you not lose all progress to that point for failing at a single challenge?

 

[SiriusR]

There's way too much censoring in that for me to have any idea what you're talking about.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to be more elaborate on the subject on this forum. Let's just say it's from the "Y'ARRRRRRRRRRRRR" side of things.

It's just you and the gameplay style that Gran Turismo has become known for. In Gran Turismo, you can absolutely have a big off and still win, in particular because some of the games will actually slow down for you.

If that's the issue, this gameplay style is much more widespread than just GT. Shame that developers often sneak the catch up or rubberbanding into their games without bothering to mention that to the end user or letting them to disable it.

In a racing game where you're playing at a level of difficulty that is actually a reasonable challenge of your skill, a major mistake is the race lost.

I thought that you get to the high levels of difficulty once you know you can handle it well, thus major mistakes are a low possibility.

Is there something wrong with casual gamers enjoying games, even if that requires aids or easier difficulties? I don't see how this impacts how you play the game.

Sometimes that affects the overall gameplay experience and you can't disable it - for example, the "gear tips" of newer GTs, simplified puzzles of Portal 2, modern port of Earthworm Jim lacking harder difficulty levels found in original game, etc.
Once again, my only issue with the rewind was the fact I didn't know it can be disabled. The shop demo of FM6 never failed to remind me of its existence every time I made a mistake.

No. The challenge is the difficult part. Not the easy yet time consuming part to get to the difficult part. If the difficult part is maintaining a certain level of performance for a certain level of time, that's a different sort of challenge.

The way I see it, you're supposed to perform well for the entire lapse of the race. That's the kind of a challenge I'd expect from a racing game, especially the one that tries to be realistic.

 

[Imari]

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to be more elaborate on the subject on this forum. Let's just say it's from the "Y'ARRRRRRRRRRRRR" side of things.

It gets more piratey than an emulator which I already mentioned?

If that's the issue, this gameplay style is much more widespread than just GT. Shame that developers often sneak the catch up or rubberbanding into their games without bothering to mention that to the end user or letting them to disable it.

Oh, many games have similar mechanics, it's just most prominent in simulation type racers with Gran Turismo. Given that you seem to be somewhat of a fan, I figured that was where you'd picked up the idea. You did talk about crashing and still winning the race, which is a bit of a GT meme at this point.

I thought that you get to the high levels of difficulty once you know you can handle it well, thus major mistakes are a low possibility.

You may be of the sort that only plays a higher difficulty once you have the skill to not make mistakes. Others like to be challenged and pushed to and beyond their limits.

You'll notice if you watch real racing that even professional drivers make mistakes regularly. Why, if they're so good at it? Because they use that increased skill to push even harder.

Sometimes that affects the overall gameplay experience and you can't disable it - for example, the "gear tips" of newer GTs, simplified puzzles of Portal 2, modern port of Earthworm Jim lacking harder difficulty levels found in original game, etc.

Don't mistake badly designed games and badly implemented features for those features being universally a bad idea. Having easier difficulty levels is never a bad idea. Having them at the expense of other features may be.

Once again, my only issue with the rewind was the fact I didn't know it can be disabled. The shop demo of FM6 never failed to remind me of its existence every time I made a mistake.

You should possibly also know that every demo and the first level of every Forza game generally comes with the full suite of helpers and warnings enabled. It's essentially the training level, it's supposed to get everyone into the game smoothly and show them how it works. That means that for people like you and me who already know how a car works, it's awful. The assists are intrusive and the instructions unneeded.

Once you get into the game you'll find that you can turn pretty much all that stuff off and just drive the car, if you so choose. The granularity of assists is generally superior to GT, and you are offered credit bonuses for turning them off to incentivise you.

The way I see it, you're supposed to perform well for the entire lapse of the race. That's the kind of a challenge I'd expect from a racing game, especially the one that tries to be realistic.

But how realistic are Forza and Gran Turismo really trying to be? We already know that they simplify physics and controls to make the games more accessable. Why is reducing the challenge from "you may not screw up for 5mins/30mins/24hours/however long we make the race" to "you must get all of these individual things right, in sequence, but you can have as many tries and take as long as you want" unacceptable to you? I'd say it actually becomes interesting, one can make really, really difficult races.

Especially if you want to encourage people into longer races than the 5 to 10 minutes that is standard. Repeating 10 minutes is fine. But say you're doing a 90 minute sprint race. Screwing up (or simply getting shunted by the AI) at the 80th minute isn't exactly out of the question. Do it all again? Or acknowledge that you've got most of the way, and you've still got ten minutes to go?

You'd do it again, and that's your choice. But is there really no valid situation in which you'd like someone with less time and dedication to be able to experience that long race and the battle to win it? They still have to try hard in their book, it's just that the effort they're willing to put into a toy car racing game is lower than yours.

If you're marketing to ten million potential customers, I think you have to recognise that at least 9 million of those just want to sit on the couch and hoon around. If rewind lets them practise their mad skidz yo better, then it's great for them. Personally, I love it when playing Horizon. I'm not taking it seriously, I am literally just hooning around in my tuned ridiculous-mobile. When I balls up a corner and go over a cliff I don't stress, I just hit the button and continue having fun.

Ultimately, that's the point. Fun. Never forget.

 

[fortbo]

I am very disappointing by their decision to do away with dynamic time and weather in order to have slightly prettier graphics. If they were able to do it on PS3, they should be able to do it better on the PS4. It feels like the series has lost some of its soul especially when you look back at some of the spectacular trailers for GT5 and GT6 with the beautiful time and weather. It is just not the same now.

 

[MisterOne77]

I am very disappointing by their decision to do away with dynamic time and weather in order to have slightly prettier graphics. If they were able to do it on PS3, they should be able to do it better on the PS4. It feels like the series has lost some of its soul especially when you look back at some of the spectacular trailers for GT5 and GT6 with the beautiful time and weather. It is just not the same now.

Slightly prettier graphics? Gotta disagree with you there m8. GT Sport looks a lot better in my opinion, and I can understand why they would leave out dynamic time and weather. GT6 could handle it because they skimped out in other areas like lighting, shadow and reflection quality. With GT Sport, I would imagine putting in dynamic weather and time would be pretty taxing considering the amount of detail they put in the cars and even the track.

 

[fortbo]

Slightly prettier graphics? Gotta disagree with you there m8. GT Sport looks a lot better in my opinion, and I can understand why they would leave out dynamic time and weather. GT6 could handle it because they skimped out in other areas like lighting, shadow and reflection quality. With GT Sport, I would imagine putting in dynamic weather and time would be pretty taxing considering the amount of detail they put in the cars and even the track.

I mean slightly prettier compared to what they would be if they went the dynamic weather route.

 

[marcvic]

I mean slightly prettier compared to what they would be if they went the dynamic weather route.

I thought the removal of dynamic time/weather had more to do with the frame rate and aiming to maintain 60fps.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I thought the removal of dynamic time/weather had more to do with the frame rate and aiming to maintain 60fps.

It did, but the frame rate might have been maintained if the graphics weren't quite so pretty, freeing up headroom in the graphics processor.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Gotta disagree with you there m8.

The word you're looking for is "mate".

I thought the removal of dynamic time/weather had more to do with the frame rate and aiming to maintain 60fps.

But that's just the thing: those features were sacrificed with the reasoning it was to maintain a steady framerate, something the PS3 games couldn't do. Yet this game still doesn't.

 

[05XR8]

Which puzzles me with all the talk about Drive Club rain on PS4. It should have been a given, the next Gran Turismo on PS4, would set the standard for changing weather effects.

Once again, PDI will do what they want to do. I guess there is still time to see what offline replay track dynamics look like(dirt kicked up onto the circuit, rubber layed down after cornering, spray/rooster tails during wet racing).

 

[MisterOne77]

The word you're looking for is "mate".



But that's just the thing: those features were sacrificed with the reasoning it was to maintain a steady framerate, something the PS3 games couldn't do. Yet this game still doesn't.

Is meme language not appropriate?

Which puzzles me with all the talk about Drive Club rain on PS4. It should have been a given, the next Gran Turismo on PS4, would set the standard for changing weather effects.

Once again, PDI will do what they want to do. I guess there is still time to see what offline replay track dynamics look like(dirt kicked up onto the circuit, rubber layed down after cornering, spray/rooster tails during wet racing).

Well Driveclub runs as 30fps, which is why it has such good weather effects.

 

[ImaRobot]

Which puzzles me with all the talk about Drive Club rain on PS4. It should have been a given, the next Gran Turismo on PS4, would set the standard for changing weather effects.

Once again, PDI will do what they want to do. I guess there is still time to see what offline replay track dynamics look like(dirt kicked up onto the circuit, rubber layed down after cornering, spray/rooster tails during wet racing).

When you take a deeper look at what is going on within each game, its not too puzzling. Half the frame rate, half the cars on track(less than that?), and less demanding physics engine are just a couple of things that come to mind.

Is meme language not appropriate?

No it's not, you've agreed to that.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Is meme language not appropriate?

I believe it is the text speak which is frowned upon.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Is meme language not appropriate?

https://www.gtplanet.net/aup

Also, don't double-post: that's what the Edit and +Quote buttons are for. 👍

 

[Muxlee]

Over 100 ponds for the special edition ...... think I will wait this one out might be a bargain bucket purchase

 

[JKgo]

Over 100 ponds

...That's a lot of ponds. I'm guessing you meant Pounds. 100 quid for a SE (LE)? Huh. Well, it could be a choke-full of goodies that you can't get anywhere, like a keyring or something....

 

[MisterOne77]

...That's a lot of ponds. I'm guessing you meant Pounds. 100 quid for a SE (LE)? Huh. Well, it could be a choke-full of goodies that you can't get anywhere, like a keyring or something....

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-sport-special-editions-detailed/
Here are all the special editions.

 

[JKgo]

Here are all the special editions.

...Uh, thanks, I guess? I was just kidding, though...

 

[MisterOne77]

...Uh, thanks, I guess? I was just kidding, though...

Oh, ok, Sorry. ._.