The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[Muxlee]

...That's a lot of ponds. I'm guessing you meant Pounds. 100 quid for a SE (LE)? Huh. Well, it could be a choke-full of goodies that you can't get anywhere, like a keyring or something....

yep 100 of her majesty's GBPs - gotta get the keyring ... actually its an AMG merc I think , I remember not getting my GTR and something else with GT5

ah well I am not a collector anymore

 

[Joel]

Wait this game will only have 150 cars? Good lord. I made the mistake of buying a PS3 for GT5, won't make the same mistake again.

 

[JKgo]

Wait this game will only have 150 cars? Good lord. I made the mistake of buying a PS3 for GT5, won't make the same mistake again.

....I'm taking that figure with a grain of salt. Only a month ago the very creator of this game said it was 140. Then Sony sent out press bumpf saying it was 177. Can't seem to make up their minds, looks like.

 

[bremics]

....I'm taking that figure with a grain of salt. Only a month ago the very creator of this game said it was 140. Then Sony sent out press bumpf saying it was 177. Can't seem to make up their minds, looks like.

Maybe it's 140 without duplicates?

 

[JKgo]

Maybe it's 140 without duplicates?

...Rather unlikely. Judging by the car list we know it's in the game so far, it seems most road going versions will have racing counterparts and they all count as individual cars. I dunno, that 140, 150 or whatever could in reality something like 60~70 unique cars instead with dupes not counted....

Edit: well okay, maybe more that that figure, say around 90+.

 

[Northstar]

The car list doesn't bother me as much as the track list. Only having 17 tracks isn't all that exciting, especially when you separate the dirt tracks. Plus there's at least 2 ovals and no proper oval cars (yet) and no signs of the legendary fantasy tracks.

Honestly, if GTS had a track count around 35 I would probably be looking for a second-hand PS4, as it stands I'll just live vicariously through others.

 

[ghostrider135]

The thing that bothers me most aside from all the features not being included in sport is the whole buy this edition get credits crap, It reeks of "Micro-Transactions" as I have already said in another thread, I hope I am wrong for once.

 

[Imari]

The car list doesn't bother me as much as the track list. Only having 17 tracks isn't all that exciting, especially when you separate the dirt tracks. Plus there's at least 2 ovals and no proper oval cars (yet) and no signs of the legendary fantasy tracks.

Honestly, if GTS had a track count around 35 I would probably be looking for a second-hand PS4, as it stands I'll just live vicariously through others.

As it stands it seems too bare bones to be a system seller. I certainly won't consider getting a PS4 for such a small game. I'll pick it up end of life-cycle when I get an old PS4 and all the exclusives that are worth playing but not worth paying through the nose for.

I think Gran Turismo has a tougher sale this generation, especially for the relatively serious sim racer. PC has more benefits than ever, and now that you can basically get every racing game except Gran Turismo on the platform, it's pretty hard to make PS4 the first choice for hardware.

 

[Muxlee]

As it stands it seems too bare bones to be a system seller. I certainly won't consider getting a PS4 for such a small game. I'll pick it up end of life-cycle when I get an old PS4 and all the exclusives that are worth playing but not worth paying through the nose for.

I think Gran Turismo has a tougher sale this generation, especially for the relatively serious sim racer. PC has more benefits than ever, and now that you can basically get every racing game except Gran Turismo on the platform, it's pretty hard to make PS4 the first choice for hardware.

fully agree with this , the track count ,car count are nowhere where it needs to be for me to invest in new hardware to play 1 game I don't like the vision cars which is another big turn off . I have just built a watercooled PC so that's the way forward for me. what I have seen so far there does nt seem to be any improvement over gt6 .

 

[lancia delta hf]

The thing that bothers me most aside from all the features not being included in sport is the whole buy this edition get credits crap, It reeks of "Micro-Transactions" as I have already said in another thread, I hope I am wrong for once.

What? GTS doesn't miss any features from previous game and in fact will have more features than any GT from the past, on release day. Source - Kaz.

fully agree with this , the track count ,car count are nowhere where it needs to be for me to invest in new hardware to play 1 game I don't like the vision cars which is another big turn off . I have just built a watercooled PC so that's the way forward for me. what I have seen so far there does nt seem to be any improvement over gt6 .

What's worst about GTS for and possibly others too, after the disappointment of GT5 then the bewilderment over GT6 being worse ( imo), they really needed the next GT to hit it out of the park. To me they just give the impression of a dev that is lost and void of desire to make a great game.

They aren't bringing anything to the table other than great lighting, and scapes, which you can do on your desktop. Some might say they're bring scales with moving cars, woop Dee doo basil!it looks great, it's impressive from a point of view that we can do that today, but it isn't impressive considering we can do that today and you don't need GT to do it. They've just taken desktop features and added them to the game, looks great from a presentation stand point, but worthless once you play the actual game. That's where the focus should have been.

 

[ghostrider135]

What? GTS doesn't miss any features from previous game and in fact will have more features than any GT from the past, on release day. Source - Kaz.
Snip.

Kaz is a terrible source. More than once I have compared him with Sean Murray of No Mans Sky fame, Both consistently OVER-promise and UNDER-deliver.

GT:6 41 tracks (86 layouts)
GT:S 19 tracks (37 layouts)

GT:6 In excess of 1000 cars (granted alot are duplicates and old assets)
GT:S Probably alot less than half.

Dynamic time/weather BOTH CUT since GT:6.... Need I continue??

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Kaz is a terrible source. More than once I have compared him with Sean Murray of No Mans Sky fame, Both consistently OVER-promise and UNDER-deliver.

GT:6 41 tracks (86 layouts)
GT:S 19 tracks (37 layouts)

GT:6 In excess of 1000 cars (granted alot are duplicates)
GT:S Probably alot less than half.

Dynamic time/weather BOTH CUT since GT:6.... Need I continue??

In defence of PD and Kaz, none of that has to do with over-promising and under-delivering: that's comparing two different games.

Now, had PD announced GT Sport was going to have more cars than any GT game before it, and then bumped it down to 150+, you'd have a point.

I don't know about anybody else, but I fully expected a drop in content this generation. It simply wasn't viable for PS2-era assets to be recycled again. We saw it with FM5 — its predecessor had over 600+ cars, so the list was one-third that. That was in 2013 at the launch of the XB1 though, not nearly four years in.

I'm guessing part of the shock for some folks is that they just assumed PS3-era Premium models would make the jump. It wasn't a stretch of the imagination: Yamauchi did state those cars were "PS4 ready" on numerous occasions. And considering the huge quality gap between Standards and Premiums, it certainly seemed like Polyphony would bring the Premos over to PS4 — there's barely a difference there!

Maybe that's where the 500 car count will come from. But then that raises a whole other question: how will the game's esport focus weigh on all those varying models. Can we expect a Group B Schwimmwagen?!

 

[Cowboy]

Can we expect a Group B Schwimmwagen?!

Well there's the Group 4 Veyron, so it's possible

 

[sems4arsenal]

In defence of PD and Kaz, none of that has to do with over-promising and under-delivering: that's comparing two different games.

Now, had PD announced GT Sport was going to have more cars than any GT game before it, and then bumped it down to 150+, you'd have a point.

I don't know about anybody else, but I fully expected a drop in content this generation. It simply wasn't viable for PS2-era assets to be recycled again. We saw it with FM5 — its predecessor had over 600+ cars, so the list was one-third that. That was in 2013 at the launch of the XB1 though, not nearly four years in.

I'm guessing part of the shock for some folks is that they just assumed PS3-era Premium models would make the jump. It wasn't a stretch of the imagination: Yamauchi did state those cars were "PS4 ready" on numerous occasions. And considering the huge quality gap between Standards and Premiums, it certainly seemed like Polyphony would bring the Premos over to PS4 — there's barely a difference there!

Maybe that's where the 500 car count will come from. But then that raises a whole other question: how will the game's esport focus weigh on all those varying models. Can we expect a Group B Schwimmwagen?!

Been thinking about that. The only hope that we get to 500 is that they figure out a way to upscale them to current standards in an easy way rather than restart from scratch. The Evora and the Group B Quattro sort of suggest that hopefully. They'll need to somehow balance them correctly though.

 

[The_Lurker]

My advice to people: I don't think GT Sport is gonna be a good game. Literally to anyone it's gonna be a bad time, except for people looking for an online e-Sport racer, which i believe is an extremely specific market.

It isn't realistic as the other games.
It isn't as fun as the other games.
It does not feature the car collecting of usual.
Althought unconfirmed, it's safe to assume the game will feature an extremely cut-down career mode or not even feature one at all.
There will be little progression, all the cars are race cars from strictly the same age. There are different classes but due to the e-Sport focus they are obviously gonna be of easy access.
It does not feature many tracks, there will be only a few.
It does not feature course maker.

Well, it features photos, i guess.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Been thinking about that. The only hope that we get to 500 is that they figure out a way to upscale them to current standards in an easy way rather than restart from scratch. The Evora and the Group B Quattro sort of suggest that hopefully. They'll need to somehow balance them correctly though.

There's no need to start from scratch. There's no way they just hit the delete button on 500k polygon models from the PS3 era.

 

[Imari]

What? GTS doesn't miss any features from previous game and in fact will have more features than any GT from the past, on release day. Source - Kaz.

Let's be completely honest, there's no way for that to be true outside of some truly staggering redefinition of what constitutes a "feature". It was either a poor translation, or Kaz was straight up talking bollocks. He's been known to do it from time to time, he has a rather long leash on his tongue.

 

[marcvic]

The thing that bothers me most aside from all the features not being included in sport is the whole buy this edition get credits crap, It reeks of "Micro-Transactions" as I have already said in another thread, I hope I am wrong for once.

I am upset about the pre-order/limited edition bonuses as well. I like the idea of getting exclusive cosmetic bonuses (like liveries), but I can live without the cars and money.

I'ld like to get the Limited Edition, but because I don't want the cars/money bonus, I am stuck with just buying the regular game. Shame, because I would gladly shell out some extra cash for a few exclusive items (even a key-chain ).

There's no need to start from scratch. There's no way they just hit the delete button on 500k polygon models from the PS3 era.

There is no way to know unless we have an inside look at their process of modelling cars and how the new available technology may have changed that process.

There very well could be a way to bring the premiums up to GT Sport level and they could be working on them right now - I surely welcome that prospect. But GTS looks significantely better than GT6. There are some really crazy reproduction techniques that some people think is just down to the lighting. But it looks to go much deeper than that - the way that surfaces react to lighting looks far beyond what GT6 models were capable of.

Besides, if there was an easy way to just simply update the models to GT Sport standards, wouldn't they have done that? If they could, why would they not?

 

[Imari]

But it looks to go much deeper than that - the way that surfaces react to lighting looks far beyond what GT6 models were capable of.

Yes. But that doesn't seem like a reason to throw away the wire mesh.

Besides, if there was an easy way to just simply update the models to GT Sport standards, wouldn't they have done that? If they could, why would they not?

Perhaps they're just slow and are looking for a way to spin it that sounds reasonable. You know, like FM5 did. I mean, at this point they have somewhere under 100 actual unique cars, ignoring the random wings and such between the classes. Even if they're modelling from scratch, that's pretty glacial for an AAA studio. Maybe they really do only have a couple dozen people modelling cars, stupid as that would sound.

 

[marcvic]

Yes. But that doesn't seem like a reason to throw away the wire mesh.

I've never delved into the world of graphics modelling, but is this what you are referring to:

Perhaps they're just slow and are looking for a way to spin it that sounds reasonable. You know, like FM5 did. I mean, at this point they have somewhere under 100 actual unique cars, ignoring the random wings and such between the classes. Even if they're modelling from scratch, that's pretty glacial for an AAA studio. Maybe they really do only have a couple dozen people modelling cars, stupid as that would sound.

I'm not familiar with FM5 practices - I just know they had to face a big chop in their car count when going next-gen. Was there deception/exaggeration involved with it?

I'm not arguing against them being slow - just speculating if the adoption of new technology forced their hand. The sense of touch/feel that the graphics have in GTS looks like nothing we've seen in a video game. It looks like a slow process.

So there could be a strong case to epic-ly whine and cry that GT Sport's graphics look too good - so good that nothing from last gen makes the cut. So good that the models take an unprecedented amount of time to make. I almost want to agree with Kaz that GT Sport's graphics model could hold up for another one or two console generations.

I just know that if there was another attempt at cross-generation content meshing like last generation, this epic crying and whining thread would be much longer.

 

[Scaff]

I was interested to see just how big the GTS car count was from a unique model point of view, so I took the current 128 car list and removed any duplicate based on being the same model and year, the result was (and I was being generous) a final result of 80 cars. Which is a ratio of 63% : 37%, so 37% of the models are 'recycled' within GTS currently.

I've attached an excel spreadsheet with the breakdown, and this was being kind to PD, it doesn't make the list too good looking for some manufacturers, with many dropping from multiple cars to a single one, Honda for example simply has four versions of the NSX.

 

[ghostrider135]

In defence of PD and Kaz, none of that has to do with over-promising and under-delivering: that's comparing two different games.

Now, had PD announced GT Sport was going to have more cars than any GT game before it, and then bumped it down to 150+, you'd have a point.

I don't know about anybody else, but I fully expected a drop in content this generation. It simply wasn't viable for PS2-era assets to be recycled again. We saw it with FM5 — its predecessor had over 600+ cars, so the list was one-third that. That was in 2013 at the launch of the XB1 though, not nearly four years in.

I'm guessing part of the shock for some folks is that they just assumed PS3-era Premium models would make the jump. It wasn't a stretch of the imagination: Yamauchi did state those cars were "PS4 ready" on numerous occasions. And considering the huge quality gap between Standards and Premiums, it certainly seemed like Polyphony would bring the Premos over to PS4 — there's barely a difference there!

Maybe that's where the 500 car count will come from. But then that raises a whole other question: how will the game's esport focus weigh on all those varying models. Can we expect a Group B Schwimmwagen?!

I expected and hoped for a drop in content (Standard cars being removed) However the PS3 era models were on-par or very close to models in other newer games so they can stay/be updated a little for a seamless transfer over to GT:S then you have what 4years to model more cars ontop of that, The car list should be in excess of 200 easily.

I notice though you fail to mention the removal of time/weather, Something that so far looks incredible in a certain rival series that is also being released on the same console and also on the weaker xbox

 

[Johnnypenso]

There is no way to know unless we have an inside look at their process of modelling cars and how the new available technology may have changed that process.

There very well could be a way to bring the premiums up to GT Sport level and they could be working on them right now - I surely welcome that prospect. But GTS looks significantely better than GT6. There are some really crazy reproduction techniques that some people think is just down to the lighting. But it looks to go much deeper than that - the way that surfaces react to lighting looks far beyond what GT6 models were capable of.

Besides, if there was an easy way to just simply update the models to GT Sport standards, wouldn't they have done that? If they could, why would they not?

Which new technology are you referring to? They are still using a polygon mesh to make cars. The differences in this gen involve physics based rendering which doesn't require throwing away the polygon mesh.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I expected and hoped for a drop in content (Standard cars being removed) However the PS3 era models were on-par or very close to models in other newer games so they can stay/be updated a little for a seamless transfer over to GT:S then you have what 4years to model more cars ontop of that, The car list should be in excess of 200 easily.

I notice though you fail to mention the removal of time/weather, Something that so far looks incredible in a certain rival series that is also being released on the same console and also on the weaker xbox

Yes, agreed.
Still no sign.

The best we have is an answer of "Yes" regarding the fog conditions seen at the Nurburg. being playable in-game.
But that's only been seen in a cinematic trailer clip.

Hopefully they are holding weather and night up their sleeve.
But it's becoming a worry.

 

[MisterOne77]

My advice to people: I don't think GT Sport is gonna be a good game. Literally to anyone it's gonna be a bad time, except for people looking for an online e-Sport racer, which i believe is an extremely specific market.

It isn't realistic as the other games.
It isn't as fun as the other games.
It does not feature the car collecting of usual.
Althought unconfirmed, it's safe to assume the game will feature an extremely cut-down career mode or not even feature one at all.
There will be little progression, all the cars are race cars from strictly the same age. There are different classes but due to the e-Sport focus they are obviously gonna be of easy access.
It does not feature many tracks, there will be only a few.
It does not feature course maker.

Well, it features photos, i guess.

Whether GT Sport is is as fun as other games or not is up to the person. I know several people on this site who enjoyed the beta more then Project Cars.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I notice though you fail to mention the removal of time/weather, Something that so far looks incredible in a certain rival series that is also being released on the same console and also on the weaker xbox

I did, because PD never strictly promised that either. Don't get me wrong, I too am disappointed by dynamic T/W disappearing. I get the argument of "a more consistent experience", but the game doesn't hit a locked 1080P60 on the vanilla PS4 in its current form, so it's still not as consistent as the competition.

Game design is all about compromise. In the PS3 era, PD threw everything it could at the GT games, and we got dynamic T/W with great graphics and an inconsistent framerate. It appears graphics are once again the priority, to the point dynamic T/W had to be chopped. I doubt that decision was made flippantly though: we know PD tracked a lot of online data during the PS3 era, and perhaps it found only a tiny percentage of players actually utilized those features. I wouldn't be surprised: we, the sim racing fanatics, are the minority.

And yes, I too am surprised by the dynamic features added into FM7. We'll see how truly dynamic it is soon, but I'd also very much like to see how it runs on a base XB1. We tried it on XB1X pre-pro units, and IIRC, the field is still 24 cars. Either T10 has optimized even further, or some other aspect of the game had to be reeled in to make this work.

 

[TetsuKobura]

Whether GT Sport is is as fun as other games or not is up to the person. I know several people on this site who enjoyed the beta more then Project Cars.

Now you know an extra person 👍

 

[doblocruiser]

My biggest complaint for GT Sport in its current form is its amount of variety in terms of tracks. If I look at the tracks of FM7 and PCARS2, GTS falls short. How does PD intend to keep the game alive after its release with that amount of tracks? I read 15/17 locations and a total of 28 layouts. For racing most people will use the circuit based tracks (assumption) and I can't see ovals doing that well on Europe's mainland.

28 layouts - 3 dirt tracks - 2 ovals = 23 layouts. We are talking about a game that has been in production for almost 4 years. Why haven't PD decided to bring all the fantasy tracks up to PS4 standards? I could have meant loads of tracks with multiple variations. I even wonder if I would actually need RL tracks because of the general fantasy focus of Gran Turismo (not a bad thing). The rest of the current features announced are also available in other titles so what advantage does GT:S actually have over its competitors besides the lighting engine? I find it very hard to find a substantive reason to choose GT:S over PCARS2 or FM7.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

My biggest complaint for GT Sport in its current form is its amount of variety in terms of tracks. If I look at the tracks of FM7 and PCARS2, GTS falls short. How does PD intend to keep the game alive after its release with that amount of tracks? I read 15/17 locations and a total of 28 layouts. For racing most people will use the circuit based tracks (assumption) and I can't see ovals doing that well on Europe's mainland.

28 layouts - 3 dirt tracks - 2 ovals = 23 layouts. We are talking about a game that has been in production for almost 4 years. Why haven't PD decided to bring all the fantasy tracks up to PS4 standards? I could have meant loads of tracks with multiple variations. I even wonder if I would actually need RL tracks because of the general fantasy focus of Gran Turismo (not a bad thing). The rest of the current features announced are also available in other titles so what advantage does GT:S actually have over its competitors besides the lighting engine? I find it very hard to find a substantive reason to choose GT:S over PCARS2 or FM7.

Speaking of fantasy tracks, what's incredibly surprising is the likely absence of Sierra. There's a huge track that obviously took a lot of time to craft, and it's seemingly relegated to the bin. Similarly, bringing Apricot Hill and Midfield up to spec in GT6 also strikes me as very strange if they aren't also re-introduced in GT Sport.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

My biggest complaint for GT Sport in its current form is its amount of variety in terms of tracks. If I look at the tracks of FM7 and PCARS2, GTS falls short. How does PD intend to keep the game alive after its release with that amount of tracks? I read 15/17 locations and a total of 28 layouts. For racing most people will use the circuit based tracks (assumption) and I can't see ovals doing that well on Europe's mainland.

28 layouts - 3 dirt tracks - 2 ovals = 23 layouts. We are talking about a game that has been in production for almost 4 years. Why haven't PD decided to bring all the fantasy tracks up to PS4 standards? I could have meant loads of tracks with multiple variations. I even wonder if I would actually need RL tracks because of the general fantasy focus of Gran Turismo (not a bad thing). The rest of the current features announced are also available in other titles so what advantage does GT:S actually have over its competitors besides the lighting engine? I find it very hard to find a substantive reason to choose GT:S over PCARS2 or FM7.

But of course, we haven't seen anything close to all the tracks in the game. For all we know they could be bringing any number of fictional courses back.