The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread
- Thread starter ukfan758
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- Neomone
It's not so much that they'd do paying for paint chips again, but that this is a company that actually thought that was a good idea. There's any number of ways that they could mess up the DLC for GTS, starting with making it mandatory to buy track DLC to compete in the FIA championships.
- 982
Right, 1st party devs are smaller but they don;t have support from the entirety of SCE. Definitely the ICE team (hardware specialists) but they will also contribute to the development of the PS4/5.
Well, the only other AAA racing sim there is, is Forza, in which case you would be right. T10 have near 450 employees.
There not up there with T10, who has twice the number of employees.
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- PzR Slim
Your original point was that they are small for a AAA racing developer yet you can only name one other dev who is bigger. Seems like you need to reassess your assertion, no?
The lengths some members go to defend PDi truly is astonishing. They would rather make stuff up and make themselves look foolish than admit not everything is rosy, just as it is for every dev.
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- GTP_Soundtrack
They've sure been shooting themselves in the foot in the past but this would be more like a headshot, IMO. With it's main online focus GTS needs for it's own success to remain fully accessible to the widest userbase/community possible, specifically in what ultimately remains a marketing initiative. Putting it behind a pay-wall and eventually excluding some participants would end-up counterproductive. As said let's hope they do things wisely...
Scaff
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Then Kaz is doing something very wrong then, given that he sits on the SCE board.
Can you name one other racing Dev that sits on the SCE board, that has a say in the workings of the company and would have had access to the hardware and software tool earlier or even at the same time?
PD is not small and it's further boosted by its level of access and influence.
Feel free to keep believing otherwise, but the evidence certainly doesn't support your claim.
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So now we get the bottom of the matter. What you should have said is 'they are smaller than T10'. You can't draw any conclusions about the size of anything when you have a sample size of two. That is just common mathematical sense. PDi have a very large team of people working for them. They are not as big as T10 but that doesn't mean they are not big themselves. To try and argue they are small is an exercise in stupidity.
And I'd love it if you can fill me in on this hidden agenda. But please bear in mind that I have the Collectors Edition ordered with two different retailers, have owned every GT product that has gone before, that I own all 4 major game playing platforms, buy every single major and the vast majority of minor racing games that are released and I am more than happy to say that all of them have their positives and their negatives.
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Scaff
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Codemasters has around 200 employees per title and has put out far more titles, across multiple platforms, without the access and influence of PD, that are of a AAA standard in the time it's taken PD to still not release a title.
That's also taking into account the 60 or so it took from Evolution studios, you know the team that produced a PS4 AAA title with less than a third of the staff of PD in significantly less time.
Just check Codemasters have 400 staff, who will have released 7 titles (the vast majority AAA), on a minimum of 3 platforms for each in the same time PD manage one on one platform.
That's an average of 60 people for each title!
PD is not small.
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PhaedrusSocrate
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Oh, i didn't know that other members of scee board are active progamers and designers and asset artists... wow! That is incredible! Go Sony!!! Btw, can you tell us how many cars and/or tracks has Shuhei Yoshida programed, or scaned or anything Actual Physicaly Work related for upcoming GT, or any previous? That would be awesome for us all to know!
And it is "amazing" how codemasters keep turning out those one make car games with, usualy, very few new tracks for each new game. Must be helpful how they do not push the envelope in any, almost, department - of kind that would demand massive work hours when you are going beyond your old games... Just what is new in their annual instalments - tiny changes to the cars, maybe few tracks and maybe new feature - Those Should All Be Just Updates, barely DLC's even!
Oh, oh, oh...
These are all only my opinion, with a slight touch of friendly satire. If anyone is ofended I do apologise up front
👍
Scaff
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And how many titles have they put out in the same time period?
First drop the attitude, it does you no favours.
Now are you actually arguing that Kaz sitting on the SCE board is of no help to PD and brings them no beneficial influence?
As my point has nothing to do with coding, and everything to do with influence and access to hardware and software ahead of other studios.
You are seriously attempting to use that as an argument given the rate of assets reused by PD?
As for pushing the envelope, PD has to date used the exact same career structure for everyone of it titles.
Codemasters may have been locked in terms of what can be done with cars and tracks in some titles, but they have certainly always pushed what can be done in terms of career. Something that has been abundantly clear with past CM titles and with F1 2016 in terms of how car development in handled.
You also seem to have forgotten the procedural stage generation within Dirt 4, something that it does extremely well.
Odd, as it come across that you just don't like people saying anything negative about PD.Oh, oh, oh...
These are all only my opinion, with a slight touch of friendly satire. If anyone is ofended I do apologise up front
It also is irrelevant to the claim that was made, that PD is a small studio. It's quite clearly not.
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You originally were under the impression in this comment chain of yours that PD had half as many employees as it actually has, so its pretty hard to claim PZR Slim is of the mark in his response to whatever uninformed claim you're making to try and make something stick this time.
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- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
It should also be pointed out that T10 doesn't have 450 employees. It has about 110-150, but people add the outsourcing artists to swell the figure.
If I ran a restaurant, and bought all my meat from a specialist, I wouldn't consider the people at the butcher employees.
If I ran a restaurant, and bought all my meat from a specialist, I wouldn't consider the people at the butcher employees.
Scaff
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The Codemasters numbers come from an interview with them, Wiki and a number of other sources.
T10 numbers I trust @SlipZtrEm on given that he has interview them.
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zzz_pt
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- zzz_pt
Warning: You might find this post very boring and empty 
Just went to see GT6's ending credits, where all the names and partnerships appear.
For car modeling, 50 names (PD's employees I'd imagine):
No other names appear for outsourcing in with "car modeling" until the end of the video. Even if PS had contracted a 3rd party to do part of the job, their names and what they did would be in the final credits I think.
30 names for Landscape designers (tracks and 3D photomode locations I guess):
Directors: 7 names for car modeling and 5 for landscapes
__________
If each car takes 6 months, in 4 years they would have modeled 400 cars (50 people x 8 semesters). But considering that: 1) some cars were added to GT6 as DLC after launch, 2) vision GT cars were modeled by the brands who took part in the project and 3) and directors / chiefs aren't probably modeling as much as modellers themselves (if at all), that number could go into the 250/300. Still, we have around 180 cars in GTS's final version.
Regarding the tracks, I recall Kaz saying on his documentary (Kaz: pushing the virtual devide) the team who goes around the world to take the data from each track has around 20 people. I have no idea how long it takes to make a track from zero, but probably around 6 months? Of course in this case, 6 monthswith at least 20 people wroking on a single track.
This is all guess work from my part, based on what PD left in GT6's final credits. We know they were hiring people after that and Kaz said they ere ~200 big already, but it gives us an idea of who did what in GT6. To be honest, I was expecting to see a way longer list of names associated with modeling and landscape but maybe it didn't need it due to GT5 having pretty much all of the content already (standards even coming from previous generations).
PD will have to outsource car modelling for sure if they want to reach 500 cars before players just move somewhere else. Unless, of course they already have twice the people modeling cars and improved their workflows to shorten that 6month threshold for a single car.
Just went to see GT6's ending credits, where all the names and partnerships appear.
For car modeling, 50 names (PD's employees I'd imagine):
No other names appear for outsourcing in with "car modeling" until the end of the video. Even if PS had contracted a 3rd party to do part of the job, their names and what they did would be in the final credits I think.
30 names for Landscape designers (tracks and 3D photomode locations I guess):
Directors: 7 names for car modeling and 5 for landscapes
__________
If each car takes 6 months, in 4 years they would have modeled 400 cars (50 people x 8 semesters). But considering that: 1) some cars were added to GT6 as DLC after launch, 2) vision GT cars were modeled by the brands who took part in the project and 3) and directors / chiefs aren't probably modeling as much as modellers themselves (if at all), that number could go into the 250/300. Still, we have around 180 cars in GTS's final version.
Regarding the tracks, I recall Kaz saying on his documentary (Kaz: pushing the virtual devide) the team who goes around the world to take the data from each track has around 20 people. I have no idea how long it takes to make a track from zero, but probably around 6 months? Of course in this case, 6 monthswith at least 20 people wroking on a single track.
This is all guess work from my part, based on what PD left in GT6's final credits. We know they were hiring people after that and Kaz said they ere ~200 big already, but it gives us an idea of who did what in GT6. To be honest, I was expecting to see a way longer list of names associated with modeling and landscape but maybe it didn't need it due to GT5 having pretty much all of the content already (standards even coming from previous generations).
PD will have to outsource car modelling for sure if they want to reach 500 cars before players just move somewhere else. Unless, of course they already have twice the people modeling cars and improved their workflows to shorten that 6month threshold for a single car.
marcvic
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- marcvic
I understand, I have too. I'm interested in reading up on everyone's numbers just so we can have more perspective on PD's staff.
I trust his interviews also. Do you happen to know the titles of them so I can look them up?
PhaedrusSocrate
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More then some members go around throwing numbers, others go throwing words (only in my opinion as always). For example, in my opinion, correct argument would be - "How many human beings actualy put in work hours into content of any given game published by any given company" - are they employees, asociates, outsorcesed indentured servants, THAT only relates to their working arangements. But they are members of a particular work force that was aplied to that particular game.
But ofc., I am wrong, and do not mind being told that what so ever:tup:
But ofc., I am wrong, and do not mind being told that what so ever:tup:
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- hypershock12
I don't know mate, when I look at GTS, it still reminds of GT as a whole. The elegant looking menus, the music, the emphasis on photomode, the little details in almost everything and so on. GT's identity goes a lot deeper than car collecting and championship races.
Can you a least explain what GT is to you?
- 982
I feel like you don't understand the structure of SCE. It includes other studios, so when you said backing of all, I assumed you meant PD had coding help from other studios.
You also don;t seem to understand that SCE board is not a developer. PD won't get help from those people. There's a specific team that helps SCE studios with hardware and software and its called ICE.
Furthermore, you also think being on this board is all win and you have no extra work to do. Kaz will be working very closely on the development of PS hardware being on that board.
Relative to Turn 10 they are.
Buying GT doesn't somehow remove the existence of a personal agenda lol
Questionable.
Those outsourcing artists are employees as well for the duration of their contract. So yes T10 does have 450 employees.
This is such a poor analogy. You are buying a product sold by another business. You are not hiring the butcher by buying his meat. That meat buyer can sell his meat to other companies.
Meanwhile T10 hires other companies (in India and Vietnam as they are cheap) to do stuff like car modelling. These companies are now working for T10 under a contract and treated as employees of T10 (or MS). They can not be selling their creations to other companies.
Note the word hires, contract, employee and exclusivity (coming from the contract).
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And yet you still haven't enlightened me to what you think my hidden agenda is? I'd advise you to have some concrete proof of this however as I, and I'm sure the site, will not take kindly to you throwing such accusations around. And if you haven't got concrete proof I'd kindly ask you to apologise and take back what you accused me of.
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