The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread

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PhaedrusSocrate
No realy need for anything that expansive, just stop analy nitpicking apart anything positive of one game while not doing quite equaly for the other side. What i have seen, and this is only my subjective impresion ofc., is that marcvic is putting far more effort into being balanced and fair than mods or anyone else (today at least)... Yet another member comes clearly (or to me quite clearly, in my subjective impresion) with extremely over simplified statement - because after those comprehensive bullet points to just "simplify" GTS as photography is an act of/or/and saltynes, troling, flaming - Yet you ATTACK marcvic that HE is the one that is "bothered by that".

As i have said it is just my subjective impression and it must be that i'm quite wrong. But it is created by situation that one member works entire day with inputs and opinions of everyone who's not pissing at the effort he is doing, then one member comes doing that - but marcvic is frowned upon by TWO admins...

Anyway, thank you tolerating someone like me and for any future effort of yours to help me realise all the wrong impression that i have just expresed in this post.
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No one has ATTACKED anyone, disagreeing with some one and suggesting this may not be the right thread for such a topic is not attacking anyone.

I would however suggest strongly that you stop speaking on behalf of other members and the staff, the passive aggressive mini modding is not appreciated or acceptable.
 
I was not doing any of that. I was expresing my thought and impression for ours today joint exchange. And by ours i mean every single member that happened only to read the thread today, not just the posters. And i beleive i am corect to define it like that, becouse forum is one homogenous organism that exists trought time - people that posted last month afected those posting today who do afect those that will be posting tomorow...

If my sharing of my opinions and impression you come to experience like passive agresive moding and such, maybe just tiny part of that is your projection. From how you are handling some (some!) situations. Not quite well, in my impression, ofc... It is duty of any member of any forum to even report mods if/and when they are causing unrest on that forum.
 
breyzipp
I am promoting PC2 now with that reply? LOL. If it makes you feel better I'll write it upside down for you...

GT:S - photos
FM7 - cars
PC2 - sim
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Its the fact you repeatedly promote PC2 as the only sim and that the others aren't. That is not at all what the last few pages have come down as you believe.
 
marcvic
Fair enough and I completely understand. I'll take the list elsewhere.

Not directed toward you: Its funny that people can't handle the evidence that shows GTS is not the one with the limited experience after all (IMO, I suppose).
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In what way is it not a limited experience? To me what I'm looking for is as simple as this. 1. Physics. 2. AI. 3. One player game. 4. variety of cars and tracks (tracks being more important to me).

I didn't mean to make you feel you are in the wrong place to post what you are posting - just to remind you of what the thread is called.
 
PhaedrusSocrate
No realy need for anything that expansive, just stop analy nitpicking apart anything positive of one game while not doing quite equaly for the other side. What i have seen, and this is only my subjective impresion ofc., is that marcvic is putting far more effort into being balanced and fair than mods or anyone else (today at least)
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Every single person that is in this discussion, sans one member that can't figure out staffing, is coming in fair and equal. That you don't see it is a problem that lies only with you.
PhaedrusSocrate
because after those comprehensive bullet points to just "simplify" GTS as photography is an act of/or/and saltynes, troling, flaming
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Yes, I'm sure absolutely no one is disagreeing with that. That post was unnecessary and did nothing. Those are the kind of posts you don't bring into the grand scale of the discussion, cus it was literally not a discussion at all from that person.

PhaedrusSocrate
Yet you ATTACK marcvic that HE is the one that is "bothered by that".
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Yet here you are putting a general blanket statement over everyone, as if everyone did that. No one in this discussion has done any of that.

PhaedrusSocrate
As i have said it is just my subjective impression and it must be that i'm quite wrong.
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I would agree.

PhaedrusSocrate
But it is created by situation that one member works entire day with inputs and opinions of everyone who's not pissing at the effort he is doing, then one member comes doing that - but marcvic is frowned upon by TWO admins...
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Frowned upon? Did he get a warning? Was his post removed? Is he banned? Did they tell him to stop? No, they essentially posted their opinion on the matter, like everyone else is doing.

Sorry for the snarky responses, but you're reading to far into situations that aren't happening.
 
PhaedrusSocrate
I was not doing any of that. I was expresing my thought and impression for ours today joint exchange. And by ours i mean every single member that happened only to read the thread today, not just the posters. And i beleive i am corect to define it like that, becouse forum is one homogenous organism that exists trought time - people that posted last month afected those posting today who do afect those that will be posting tomorow...

If my sharing of my opinions and impression you come to experience like passive agresive moding and such, maybe just tiny part of that is your projection. From how you are handling some (some!) situations. Not quite well, in my impression, ofc... It is duty of any member of any forum to even report mods if/and when they are causing unrest on that forum.
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Then go ahead and use the report button.

What you will not do is continue in the manner you have been, it's not you mandate to compile a running commentary of how you think other members should be viewed.

I'm going to make it quite simple, if you continue to do so the posts will be deleted and formal warning will be issued.

Don't mistake this for an invitation to debate or discuss this, it stops now.
 
marcvic
Fair enough and I completely understand. I'll take the list elsewhere.

Not directed toward you: Its funny that people can't handle the evidence that shows GTS is not the one with the limited experience after all (IMO, I suppose).
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The lists are cause for an interesting discussion, no doubt — but yeah, probably not best-suited to this thread.

As for whether they're "evidence" or not, that really depends. As I already mentioned, a bulleted list tells only part of the story: you can say all three game have a career mode for instance, but one of them is looking far more limited than the others. A simple "Career Mode included" bullet point on all three does nothing to explain that nuance.

All that said, we're actually looking at doing something sort of along those lines on the front page. It's the sim-racing equivalent of bench-racing, but y'know what? A lot of people like bench-racing!

On a similar note, this is another thing that's being worked on:
GTPlanet Comparison: Console Game Car Garages

Unfortunately, it needs to be updated (it sat for a year until I remembered it a few days ago). GT Sport has thrown a spanner in things — it features a lot of fantasy cars exclusive to the franchise, which I had been trying to avoid for the sake of a more direct comparison. It's why Stealth/15A/Forza Edition cars aren't on there. But the myriad Group cars will be added in at some point this week.

PhaedrusSocrate
*snip*
Click to expand...

I think you're misconstruing the situation. The post you're talking about — the excessively simplified one — came with a wink, implying it was a joke. It also didn't really warrant any discussion, which is probably why most of us simply ignored it. On the other hand, @marcvic seems intent on having a discussion, something forums are made for. 👍

If we were to really boil down the three franchises big stand-out features to single-word answers, I don't think I'd change much from that. GT Sport does look to offer far more from a photo mode perspective than the other games. Forza is now in a class of one in terms of automotive encyclopedia style games. PCARS2? I don't know if I'd go with "sim", if only because it seems so vague — but I would go with "motorsports". Maybe "weather/seasons". I could make the argument for "authenticity" too, probably with "motorsport" preceding it.

Each game has its strengths, and all target slightly different aspects of the genre. I'm glad I don't have to pick between them, but that won't be the case for many people. That's why you see so many comparisons, and it's also why people get so defensive about "their" picks.
 
I like the fact that PD is finally listening to the consumers, but they aren't listening to some of the bigger problems that they have.

The "Career Mode" is almost universally disliked. I get that the game is focusing on eSports and online gaming, but that doesn't mean you have to alienate the audience that expect a normal GT career by gutting said career and replacing it with licence tests on steroids. They need to look around the internet and see what their primary audience thinks of their game. Yes, some aspects of the game look great (Scapes, Livery Editor), but one of the most important parts of the game is being torn apart by a large amount of people, and PD haven't gone out of their way to add a conventional career to the game to show that they're listening to their audience. What's going to happen to the servers on launch day? The servers already went through a few issues back when the beta was ongoing, what happens when even more people attempt to connect at the same time? What happens when the servers for the game inevitable close down in the future? Do we just play arcade mode?


People are cancelling preorders, and hoping the entire game bombs. Is this really what you want, PD?


At this point, I have no idea where PD's priorities lie. We've only just begun scratching the surface of 4K, yet PD are targeting 8K when it comes to their cars. They have an incredible livery editor, and almost class leading photo mode, but there is literally no career mode for actual racing. It's a shame, because a lot of the people who work at PD are incredibly talented, but they end up spending far too much time on features that aren't as important to the game.

Yes, I get that it may be a lot harder to create a full GT career mode when the car list is a shell of its former self, but they managed to do it when GT3 came out, and that's seen by many as one of the, if not the best Gran Turismo game to release.

Am I still going to buy it? Yes. Is it going to sell a lot? Probably.

Is it going to get rave reviews?

Probably not.

PC2 is shaping up to be amazing, and provided it isn't bugged out when it releases, is sure to get some great reviews. Forza 7 is well, Forza. Expanding from Forza 6 wouldn't be a bad step for them at all.

Reviewers are going to notice that this game has a small amount of cars and tracks compared to its main competition, and this will hurt it significantly. What's more, the glaring omission of a true GT styled career mode is set to hurt it even further. Good graphics and nice features aren't going to help you when the game has no replay value.

Effectively, they have 1 month to add features and polish the game until it goes gold. It's time to fix up and make Gran Turismo great again, PD.
 
Here is the thing though, @TS050, PD seems to think that ESports and compeition based gaming as a whole is the future of online gaming. They are right, to an extent. I sincerely believe that sim racing can be fantastic application of ESports, and some games, iRacing mainly, have toyed with this in various capacities. We all know that McLaren and Nissan believe this to be the case as well.

The thing is, as you said, you need something to balance it out with a career mode that is beefy enough to satisfy the hordes of casual sim racing players that will buy GT Sport. And they are instead hitching their wagons to the idea that people are going to jump into online as soon as possible, and weed out the veterans from the noobs with the skill rating system. We already know that public lobbies are utter gong shows in sim racing games, and a rating system isn't going to do squat for solving the problem.

I also thank you for bringing up the possibility of online failures at launch. A long beta might have helped with regards to data collected, but there is probably going to be a 1000x more people clogging up the servers then during the closed beta period. And it is especially important for a online focused game like GT Sport to get off on the ground running with little connection problems or server meltdowns. I have mentioned in this thread time and time again that there is recent history with regards to this topic in the case of Test Drive Unlimited 2 and DRIVECLUB. Even going past racing games, games like Street Fighter V and Rainbow Six Siege suffered from problems at launch that still plague them to this day, in various capacities.

But the most important thing is that the competition is smarter, hungry, and more numerous. Again, look at the competition even present for GT6's release in 2013 on consoles: it was only really Codemasters and T10. Now Kunos and SMS both are in the frey, and it is increasingly obvious that GT is lagging behind in a lot of things besides graphical fidelity.
 
TS050
I like the fact that PD is finally listening to the consumers, but they aren't listening to some of the bigger problems that they have.

The "Career Mode" is almost universally disliked. I get that the game is focusing on eSports and online gaming, but that doesn't mean you have to alienate the audience that expect a normal GT career by gutting said career and replacing it with licence tests on steroids. They need to look around the internet and see what their primary audience thinks of their game. Yes, some aspects of the game look great (Scapes, Livery Editor), but one of the most important parts of the game is being torn apart by a large amount of people, and PD haven't gone out of their way to add a conventional career to the game to show that they're listening to their audience. What's going to happen to the servers on launch day? The servers already went through a few issues back when the beta was ongoing, what happens when even more people attempt to connect at the same time? What happens when the servers for the game inevitable close down in the future? Do we just play arcade mode?


People are cancelling preorders, and hoping the entire game bombs. Is this really what you want, PD?
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Despite the lack of a ordinary campaign mode, will you still be getting Gran Turismo Sport?

  1. Yes
    128 vote(s)
    69.2%
  2. No
    35 vote(s)
    18.9%
  3. I don't know
    22 vote(s)
    11.9%

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ou-still-be-getting-gran-turismo-sport.357915

Per/cep/tion.

At this point, I have no idea where PD's priorities lie. We've only just begun scratching the surface of 4K, yet PD are targeting 8K when it comes to their cars.
TS050
They have an incredible livery editor, and almost class leading photo mode, but there is literally no career mode for actual racing.
Click to expand...

At least they kept ACTUAL "actual racing". You know, they kind you do against real people, like actual racing. :embarrassed::embarrassed::embarrassed:
 
TS050
People are cancelling preorders, and hoping the entire game bombs. Is this really what you want, PD?
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People said this with GT5 and 6 and yet they became multimillion successes.

TS050
Is it going to get rave reviews?
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Reviews won't mean much unless they are exceedingly bad or exceedingly good.

TS050
but there is literally no career mode for actual racing.
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This remains to be seen.

Silver Arrows
But the most important thing is that the competition is smarter, hungry, and more numerous. Again, look at the competition even present for GT6's release in 2013 on consoles: it was only really Codemasters and T10. Now Kunos and SMS both are in the frey, and it is increasingly obvious that GT is lagging behind in a lot of things besides graphical fidelity.
Click to expand...

GTS is also pushing ahead in several aspects: scapes, online, livery and graphics.
 
GT6mebe
People said this with GT5 and 6 and yet they became multimillion successes.
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They also apparently turned out to be the most universally disliked of the franchise. That's not to say everyone disliked them, though. I think that's what he's getting at, perception of the game rather than outright sales. This one seems to have the most negative stigma around it compared to the past, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out on a new generation, in terms of sales.

GT6mebe
This remains to be seen.
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What we've seen and heard so far hasn't been promising, in my opinion.

GT6mebe
GTS is also pushing ahead in several aspects: scapes, online, livery and graphics.
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I think scapes can be replaced with photography. Although, how well the livery plays out is also yet to be seen, we've seen nothing of the importing feature and depending on how that pans out, it'll make or break it I feel. The game is definitely pretty, but so far, every other game coming out is as well. Online mode I'll hold my judgement on it until I actually play it.
 
ImaRobot
They also apparently turned out to be the most universally disliked of the franchise.
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Games that are universally disliked don't go on to sell 5+ million.

ImaRobot
That's not to say everyone disliked them, though. I think that's what he's getting at, perception of the game rather than outright sales.
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So a subjective and most likely narrow perception is placed about an objective measure like sales for what reason?

ImaRobot
Although, how well the livery plays out is also yet to be seen, we've seen nothing of the importing feature and depending on how that pans out, it'll make or break it I feel.
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Its already on par with the best without such an option, especially if the decals are high res. Having the option of importing your own vector files will just make it the best around.
 
GT6mebe
Games that are universally disliked don't go on to sell 5+ million.
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Games that sell a lot doesn't mean they're the best thing out there either. That's why there will still be negative stigma towards things, especially like GT5 and GT6.

Toyota sells a lot, and Ferrari doesn't in comparison, does that mean Ferrari is disliked and that everyone would prefer a Toyota?

I can use an example out of Tom Clancy's The Division. It sold about 6-7 million across consoles apparently, yet that game had pretty bad reception with what it set out to do. It had gotten so much flak and lost so many players because of issues within the game. It wasn't until way later in its life that it tried to rectify the issues that plagued it, yet that was too little too late. It turned out to be a fun game, way, way later in it's life, and I definitely enjoyed it, but there was a ton of negative stigma following that game, and the 7 million sales didn't change that one bit.

GT6mebe
So a subjective and most likely narrow perception is placed about an objective measure like sales for what reason?
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Sales numbers do nothing, its just sales numbers. Perceptions of things within is completely different and there is no correlation to it. GT5 sold a lot, in was the first full fledged game that came out on PS3, and with what came before, everyone was expecting it to blow out everything. It sold the most that generation, it didn't make it any better though. It was generally taken as one of the lower points of the series by a lot of people. GT6 did a lot more in that regard, and corrected some things yet that sold a lot less, even though the general consensus where pleased with changes.

GT6mebe
Its already on par with the best without such an option, especially if the decals are high res. Having the option of importing your own vector files will just make it the best around.
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It has a feature that can make it the best, if it is implemented in such a way. We don't know the restrictions of it yet so I'm interested in how it comes out. However, like you said, we just don't know that yet. There is one definite thing that makes it stand out, and that is the crispness of the livery editor, although with only have 300 layers, compared to Forza's 3000, that makes complete sense. I'm also interested to see if anything changes in that regard with Forza, because the liveries can get a bit too pixely sometimes.
 
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marcvic
I don't understand what that has to do with his comment regarding the two's view on the competition :confused:
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And what exactly does @NixxxoN's comment have to do with the discussion about how Kaz takes in, and absorbs what the competition is doing to better his game(or doesn't)? Other than to spread his obvious hate for a game even more. He tells people to not make judgement of games until they're out, but that has never stopped him from coming in to make judgement of Forza games, even though he's never played any. It probably wouldn't have been brought up if he didn't do the exact things he tells other people not to do.
 

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