The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[marcvic]

And what exactly does @NixxxoN's comment have to do with the discussion about how Kaz takes in, and absorbs what the competition is doing to better his game(or doesn't)? Other than to spread his obvious hate for a game even more. He tells people to not make judgement of games until they're out, but that has never stopped him from coming in to make judgement of Forza games, even though he's never played any. It probably wouldn't have been brought up if he didn't do the exact things he tells other people not to do.

Didn't say I necessarily agree with the post (indicating that DG might not be 'educated'), but it was on topic on the way KY and DG view the competition, Don't really care about any other antics.

Regarding their views, I think that Kaz has the right idea, as far as how closely to watch the competition. I like how he analyzes what they prioritize, and comes to a conclusion as to what the game's goal was for it's design. It was a lot more humble of a response, also.

 

[ImaRobot]

Didn't say I necessarily agree with the post (indicating that DG might not be 'educated'), but it was on topic on the way KY and DG view the competition, Don't really care about any other antics.

So a comment that essentially boiled down to "this guys a dick, this guy is not" aligned with the discussion we are in?

Regarding their views, I think that Kaz has the right idea, as far as how closely to watch the competition. I like how he analyzes what they prioritize, and comes to a conclusion as to what the game's goal was for it's design.

Regarding the views, that article being 7-8 years old, I believe he has changed his views slightly and has taken on board other games recently. I wish I can find the article, but unfortunately I can not find it for the life of me, so I wouldn't hold it as anything concrete.

 

[lancia delta hf]

How about playing GTS when comes out before making a judgement

I don't need to, it has no career mode, the last 2 were terrible, but now it's non existent. The car list isn't great at all, the track list is extremely poor. The track surface looks flat as a pancake, the driving from the cockpit view looks incredibly sterile and makes me think Miss Daisey is in the back seat. The sounds are still annoying, the annoying tranny whine would force me to avoid half of the already poor car list. Don't care if the physics have improved or not, I know they won't be that interesting, but that was never my issue with the last two GT's.

So I will reiterate, it doesn't look to be a step up from GT5/6 Which were already poor.

I don't understand what that has to do with his comment regarding the two's view on the competition

It has as much to do as his comment has to do with this thread or the games themselves. What relevance did his comment have? It seamed like some sort of an attempt at a moral victory.

 

[marcvic]

So a comment that essentially boiled down to "this guys a dick, this guy is not" aligned with the discussion we are in?

Yes. Even if it was harsh, it's not hard to see the origin of his thought process.

It has as much to do as his comment has to do with this thread or the games themselves. What relevance did his comment have? It seamed like some sort of an attempt at a moral victory.

Read the article and it'll provide context for his response (PersonallyI believe DG was a bit ahead of himself, just coming off of FM2):

https://www.gtplanet.net/forza-vs-gran-turismo-a-war-of-words/

 

[ImaRobot]

Yes. Even if it was harsh, it's not hard to see the origin of his thought process.

Yes, his thought process is no mystery. He has very high animosity towards anything T10. That's why it gets to this, and that's why the things he say's don't hold much. He just recently leaked into the Forza forum to say that the game isn't going to do what it's saying. Yet he comes here and says "wait till it releases." It had less to do with the actual discussion we were in, and falls in line with how he's been over the years.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Yes. Even if it was harsh, it's not hard to see the origin of his thought process.

That's quite the stretch — would you still argue that it belongs in the thread if the comments were reversed? If not, then no, it really doesn't have a place.

It's also a comment from a member that literally just went over to the FM7 section a few days ago to declare the game won't run at the advertised 4K/60fps on XB1 X, even though — surprise surprise — he hasn't played it. In fact, he still denies it will hit those numbers when presented with hands-on experience from E3.

Read the article and it'll provide context for his response (PersonallyI believe DG was a bit ahead of himself, just coming off of FM2):

https://www.gtplanet.net/forza-vs-gran-turismo-a-war-of-words/

*sigh*

This is just the nature of things when developers pull double-duty as the public faces of the franchises they develop on. They're the workers, and the hype men, and sometimes the latter role results in some juicy (if somewhat contentious) comments. Every one is guilty of what could be construed as "arrogant" comments if you want to focus on them. There was "the other games are playing catch up" from the PCARS2 camp. The "handing of the baton" comment from Forza. "The difference between our games and any others is quality" from Polyphony.

We can't blame any of these guys for these comments: they've put a ton of time into these products. This is their livelihood, and they're all obviously very passionate about it. The trick is separating these sorts of comments from what the game delivers.

A wise man put it best:

 

[marcvic]

@SlipZtrEm and @ImaRobot

I'm not concerned with his other antics. The question came up about Kaz not paying any attention to the competition. I provided a GTP article that states he does, and an on-topic response was provided.

The "handing of the baton" comment from Forza. "The difference between our games and any others is quality" from Polyphony.

I agree about the +/- of pulling double-duty. But when someone says "handing the baton" it essentially means they've taken over as the top dog - and that was coming off of FM2.

We can't blame any of these guys for these comments: they've put a ton of time into these products. This is their livelihood, and they're all obviously very passionate about it. The trick is separating these sorts of comments from what the game delivers.

No blame, but if I were to compare the two responses, KY definitely gave the more mild, respectfully-willed response.

 

[Tornado]

I think that clearly shows the difference between an educated respectful man, and a cocky arrogant one

Yes. One actually has released games this console generation; and the other has spent the entire time period talking seemingly without any concern with whether what is being said may actually be true.

 

[amar212]

Yes. One actually has released games this console generation; and the other has spent the entire time period talking seemingly without any concern with whether what is being said may actually be true.

One have to release games after games after games on strict schedule, or he will lose his job.

Other have earned himself a freedom that allows him to take philosophical approach to life and enjoy unimaginable lifestyle while pampering to his own wishes.

Life is a cruel mistress, I can tell you that.

 

[ImaRobot]

I'm not concerned with his other antics. The question came up about Kaz not paying any attention to the competition. I provided a GTP article that states he does, and an on-topic response was provided.

Except that his antics should be considered and it falls in line with the hate he spews with little to no concern about the actual topic. If it were you that posted it, it would have been scrutinized as much(and you likely wouldn't have worded it as such anyways.)

I agree about the +/- of pulling double-duty. But when someone says "handing the baton" it essentially means they've taken over as the top dog - and that was coming off of FM2.

Are you to ignore the last part about Polyphony?

One have to release games after games after games on strict schedule, or he will lose his job.

He will? Not that it's something we'd be able to find out, anyways.

 

[McLaren]

One have to release games after games after games on strict schedule, or he will lose his job.

Other have earned himself a freedom that allows him to take philosophical approach to life and enjoy unimaginable lifestyle while pampering to his own wishes.

Life is a cruel mistress, I can tell you that.

Uh, yeah....

Let's see if Mr. Freedom can still do as he wishes if GT Sport takes a colossal hit on sales compared to its predecessor as GT6 did from GT5.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I agree about the +/- of pulling double-duty. But when someone says "handing the baton" it essentially means they've taken over as the top dog - and that was coming off of FM2.

Yep, it was a comment coming off a game that received favourable reviews (90% on Metacritic), about an upcoming game that would do better (92%). It was a weird time in GT's history too: Prologue came out after FM2, but PD wasn't around at E3 2009. GT5 got a trailer, but it didn't release for another 18 months.

Was the baton comment bullish? Yes. Arrogant? In a way. Would you consider someone saying they can accurately gauge every aspect of what the competition is doing from a single glance as arrogant too? Some would. That's why sparkly Obi-Wan up top in my edited post seems so apt!

No blame, but if I were to compare the two responses, KY definitely gave the more mild, respectfully-willed response.

See above. Though I think someone saying that the competition is the reason they do what they do — and even played a role in the purchase of their first car — isn't exactly an insult.

But were are spending way too much time on a comment in 2009.

We are! For reference, the two other comments I provided (about catch-up and quality) were from this year. To be honest, I'm actually surprised by the relative lack of these things given the close release schedules this fall. I guess everybody's just as surprised as we are by the sheer number of racing games releasing almost all at once!

 

[Scaff]

Um, Kaz wasn't exactly humble in regard to his GTS VR comments.

The best VR experience in the industry?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...nd-crying-thread.346264/page-66#post-11907606

Neither humble nor close to being true.

 

[1241Penguin]

Other have earned himself a freedom that allows him to take philosophical approach to life and enjoy unimaginable lifestyle while pampering to his own wishes.

Tried that once. Nearly failed a class. Never again.

 

[Tornado]

One have to release games after games after games on strict schedule, or he will lose his job.

Other have earned himself a freedom that allows him to take philosophical approach to life and enjoy unimaginable lifestyle while pampering to his own wishes.

So one person has to do his job and the other can coast on stuff he did over a decade ago (both in practice and as a spokesman); but the former is the cocky, arrogant one.

 

[Silver Arrows]

So one person has to do his job and the other can coast on stuff he did over a decade ago (both in practice and as a spokesman); but the former is the cocky, arrogant one.

Where have I heard this before....?

 

[amar212]

So one person has to do his job and the other can coast on stuff he did over a decade ago (both in practice and as a spokesman); but the former is the cocky, arrogant one.

I do not have an idea about the last part of your sentence. I do not know who is cocky and who is not.

All I said is the one guy is an employee and other is employer. And one have to do what hes been told, other can do whatever he wants.

I do not make any claims nor anything, I am just stating the obvoius. And also I have no idea why are you finding my comments so personal? I am just being usually sarcastic, for sarcasm sake. This whole thread is an containment thread after all. Why can't we just have fun?

 

[ImaRobot]

I do not have an idea about the last part of your sentence. I do not know who is cocky and who is not.

All I said is the one guy is an employee and other is employer. And one have to do what hes been told, other can do whatever he wants.

I do not make any claims nor anything, I am just stating the obvoius. And also I have no idea why are you finding my comments so personal? I am just being usually sarcastic, for sarcasm sake. This whole thread is an containment thread after all. Why can't we just have fun?

It's just that it was funny given the context of the discussion prior.

I'm fairly certain that both have bosses. They're both respectfully running their brands, but they still have higher-ups.

That was sarcasm? Interesting. You did quite literally state something, that one has free will to do whatever he wants, and that one will get fired if he so much as misses a deadline.

 

[marcvic]

Are you to ignore the last part about Polyphony?

GS: "What makes your game different from everyone elses?"
KY: "Quality"
GS: "You gonna expand on that?"
KY: "We begged for extra time to optimize our game, which a majority of devs. don't get to do"

There is nothing that resembles a "we've got the game on lock" type of attitude.

See above. Though I think someone saying that the competition is the reason they do what they do — and even played a role in the purchase of their first car — isn't exactly an insult.

But when you say the "baton has been passed", and "their game does nothing for me" - dem dere's fightin' words!

That's like Luke telling Obi Wan "I've got nothing to learn from you - I take over from here", after only training under him for a summer vacation!

That was sarcasm? Interesting. You did quite literally state something, that one has free will to do whatever he wants, and that one will get fired if he so much as misses a deadline.

I think we all know very well that KY does not have that type of free reign over PD. Yes, he gets more creative freedom, has the best office/studio in the world, travels the world driving and taking pics of cars, but his life is no vacation and he has a stressful job to do. If he puts out crap, he has someone to answer to.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Um, Kaz wasn't exactly humble in regard to his GTS VR comments.

The best VR experience in the industry?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...nd-crying-thread.346264/page-66#post-11907606

Neither humble nor close to being true.

Isn't he talking about the PS4 Pro version?

 

[ImaRobot]

GS: "What makes your game different from everyone elses?"
KY: "Quality"
There is nothing that resembles a "we've got the game on lock" type of attitude.

Um... that's literally exactly what it looks like. Insinuating that quality is missing from the competition.

Even going off the part I omitted, more time has not given more quality in the case of the games that were released.

But when you say the "baton has been passed", and "their game does nothing for me" - dem dere's fightin' words!

And the quote just above this one isn't? It's just as much as an instigation as what Dan has said.

I think we all know very well that KY does not have that type of free reign over PD. Yes, he gets more creative freedom, has the best office/studio in the world, travels the world driving and taking pics of cars, but his life is no vacation and he has a stressful job to do. If he puts out crap, he has someone to answer to.

Yes, I know, that was my point as well.

 

[marcvic]

Even going off the part I omitted, more time has not given more quality in the case of the games that were released.

The quality comments were made in relation to GTS at E3 2017 ---- there has been no game released.

 

[Tornado]

I do not make any claims nor anything, I am just stating the obvoius.

Interesting. The obvious statement that was nonetheless supposed to be taken as sarcasm; which was made as a response to a post in an ongoing conversation but with no knowledge of any other part of that conversation.

 

[ImaRobot]

The quality comments were made in relation to GTS at E3 2017 ---- there has been no game released.

Where the quote came from isn't that relevant. It could be a quote from years ago, but more time hasn't always resulted in better quality. That's why I specifically mentioned the games that were released.

 

[marcvic]

Where the quote came from isn't that relevant. It could be a quote from years ago, but more time hasn't always resulted in better quality. That's why I specifically mentioned the games that were released.

When three games comes out within a 2-3 month's of each other and a journalist asks how one is different from another, I think the date/time are extremely relevant.

Besides, the discussion was centered around the messages that the comments sent, not whether the comments were in line with past performance - I think we call that moving the goalposts around here

 

[Northstar]

When three games comes out within a 2-3 month's of each other and a journalist asks how one is different from another, I think the date/time are extremely relevant.

Which still doesn't change anything considering...

there has been no game released.

None of us have played FM7, PC2 (on console) or GTS, this includes Kaz when it comes to the first two, which happen to be the other games in question. So how exactly does he know that GTS will be of better quality?

 

[ImaRobot]

When three games comes out within a 2-3 month's of each other and a journalist asks how one is different from another, I think the date/time are extremely relevant.

It's not completely relevant because I'm talking about how more time, in the past, didn't mean better quality.

Besides, the discussion was centered around the messages that the comments sent, not whether the comments were in line with past performance - I think we call that moving the goalposts around here

How so? It was a side point. I addressed your main point and then talked about the context of KY's quote. So if it's considered moving the goal posts to expand on a part of a discussion, then I guess so(Even though it's actually not), even though I've already specifically replied to the meaning of the quotes. Even more odd considered you completely ignored the main point we were discussing, which was the meaning behind the messages, just to expand on this side point. Oh, not side point, I mean moved goal post.

 

[Scaff]

Isn't he talking about the PS4 Pro version?

Nope, read the full article, he talking about the industry as a whole.

 

[marcvic]

@ImaRobot and @Northstar I understand your points.

I have to bow out of this one and do as @SlipZtrEm advised - defer to Obi-Wan :

 

[Earth]

Considering cancelling my preorder

• The worst track roster since GT1
• The worst car roster since GT1
• The abomination GTR-LM is in the game.
• Le Mans is not in the game
• Only 1 Porsche is revealed to be in the game so far
• No career mode
• There are still significant graphical issues (shadows, framerate, etc)
• Its releasing 4 years after the PS4 launch
• Sounds are still worst in class
• No openwheel cars

I can't in good conscience pay full price for a game like this