The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread

[Biggles]

I started poking around and found that Biden released his medical records online. It looks like he's taking Crestor, which has numerous side effects including confusion and memory loss. It's a relatively small number of people who experience this, but it does happen and I wonder if that's what's going on with Biden? Either that or he's in the very early stages of Alzheimer's which would be awful.

I'm really don't get why both parties keep pushing older people to run for office. The president undergoes insane amounts of stress and would be hard on a 45-year-old. How two candidates (Sanders and Biden), who are 77 and 78 plan to stay strong enough for four years is a bit of a puzzle to me. Then imagine if they run for another term and win, that would them at 85 and 86, which is old by any standard. Granted there are people who continue to live and active lifestyle well into their 90's, my great-grandma was one of those people, but none of those people have the stressors a president has.

Yeah, but look at Reagan. He was old AND had Alzheimers. I could not see Biden running for a second term - he's sort of a stop-gap (or stop-Trump) President. That's why the VP choice is going to be so important. However, the VP pick is often based primarily on electoral/political calculations rather than suitability for the Presidency. Thankfully there's always the Deep State to keep things going ...

 

[Dennisch]

Biden is going to run with the Hilldog as VP. I can see that happen.

 

[Joey D]

Yeah, but look at Reagan. He was old AND had Alzheimers. I could not see Biden running for a second term - he's sort of a stop-gap (or stop-Trump) President. That's why the VP choice is going to be so important. However, the VP pick is often based primarily on electoral/political calculations rather than suitability for the Presidency. Thankfully there's always the Deep State to keep things going ...

Reagan was 69 when he was elected and 77 when he left office. He also wasn't diagnosed with Alzheimer's until 1994 when he was 83, so he didn't have it while running the country. He might have had beginning signs of it the last year of the presidency, but I really doubt it.

I believe Trump is the oldest president we've elected at 70 years old, which in my opinion is too old.

 

[Biggles]

Reagan was 69 when he was elected and 77 when he left office. He also wasn't diagnosed with Alzheimer's until 1994 when he was 83, so he didn't have it while running the country. He might have had beginning signs of it the last year of the presidency, but I really doubt it.

I believe Trump is the oldest president we've elected at 70 years old, which in my opinion is too old.

77 is the new 69?

I'm pretty sure that Regan was suffering from impaired mental faculties from the end of his second term in office. At times he was perfectly coherent, at times he struggled. This would be similar to the way Biden appears now. My father has been suffering from Alzheimers for (at least) 16 years. For a number of years it was not that obvious & he developed strategies to disguise his confusion. A casual observer would not have known he had a problem - he could still play a mean game of chess & do complex cross-word puzzles, but his cognitive abilities gradually deteriorated.

It is odd that all the remaining candidates for President are in their '70's. How did we end up here when such a diverse group of candidates started out (on the Democratic side)?

 

[longshot1314]

I mean Tulsi's still running and she's under 40

 

[Dotini]

77 is the new 69?

I'm pretty sure that Regan was suffering from impaired mental faculties from the end of his second term in office. At times he was perfectly coherent, at times he struggled. This would be similar to the way Biden appears now. My father has been suffering from Alzheimers for (at least) 16 years. For a number of years it was not that obvious & he developed strategies to disguise his confusion. A casual observer would not have known he had a problem - he could still play a mean game of chess & do complex cross-word puzzles, but his cognitive abilities gradually deteriorated.

It is odd that all the remaining candidates for President are in their '70's. How did we end up here when such a diverse group of candidates started out (on the Democratic side)?

I shifted to part-time work for my last few years at Boeing in order to participate in the daily care of my adoptive sister who was suffering from clinically diagnosed Alzheimer's. Of course I'm not an expert but I do appreciate some of its problems. IMHO Reagan was indeed suffering some mild impairment during his final year or so in office. IMHO none of the current protagonists are suffering impairment, except clearly Joe Biden is suffering. Sometimes he does not know where he is or what he is doing, which are clear indications of Alzheimer's, again IMHO.

As to why he is being propped up and run for President, IMHO it is because the ends justify the means. Hatred and fear of The Don is so staggeringly high amongst people I know personally that anything necessary or serviceable, no matter how risky the consequences, is justified in removing him from office.

 

[Biggles]

I shifted to part-time work for my last few years at Boeing in order to participate in the daily care of my adoptive sister who was suffering from clinically diagnosed Alzheimer's. Of course I'm not an expert but I do appreciate some of its problems. IMHO Reagan was indeed suffering some mild impairment during his final year or so in office. IMHO none of the current protagonists are suffering impairment, except clearly Joe Biden is suffering. Sometimes he does not know where he is or what he is doing, which are clear indications of Alzheimer's, again IMHO.

As to why he is being propped up and run for President, IMHO it is because the ends justify the means. Hatred and fear of The Don is so staggeringly high amongst people I know personally that anything necessary or serviceable, no matter how risky the consequences, is justified in removing him from office.

The risk from Trump is greater than the risk from a senile Biden IMO. If Biden's judgement is impaired the "Deep State", ie. everybody else involved in actually governing the country, will step in & life will go on. With Trump, an egotistical narcissist is applying his own prejudices & ignorance in an effort to control all aspects of government: the military, diplomatic services, intelligence services, climate services, health services, judiciary, DOJ. etc.

 

[mustafur]

Biden can't avoid 1v1 Debates against Trump, He is a weak candidate and really wouldn't surprise me if Trump beats him as he has the same issues as Hillary with a terrible record but with the added senile.

 

[Swagger897]

No one in a debate against Trump will win from my pov. His base is too large to be swayed by questions asked from moderators, or his prior past being brought up again. They pretty much did everything they could last cycle and that just made him stronger by bringing people down to his level and destroying them...

 

[Dennisch]

Is it time?

Yes, yes it is!

 

[Biggles]

No one in a debate against Trump will win from my pov. His base is too large to be swayed by questions asked from moderators, or his prior past being brought up again. They pretty much did everything they could last cycle and that just made him stronger by bringing people down to his level and destroying them...

Very true, but the salient question is whether Trump's base is large enough to win the election this time. When he was elected Trump had the possibility to be an "outsider President" bringing the country together beyond the Democratic/Republican divide, but this did not happen at all. Rather, he has become, quite deliberately apparently, the most divisive, polarizing figure in American politics in many decades. Do the majority of American voters really want this to continue?

 

[Swagger897]

Very true, but the salient question is whether Trump's base is large enough to win the election this time. When he was elected Trump had the possibility to be an "outsider President" bringing the country together beyond the Democratic/Republican divide, but this did not happen at all. Rather, he has become, quite deliberately apparently, the most divisive, polarizing figure in American politics in many decades. Do the majority of American voters really want this to continue?

He had a platform and people either elected him for it, or were against HRC’s platform.
And I wouldn’t say his base was what led him to be elected either but rather key states that HRC simply failed to show up at which turned to Trump.

 

[TheCracker]

Reagan was 69 when he was elected and 77 when he left office. He also wasn't diagnosed with Alzheimer's until 1994 when he was 83, so he didn't have it while running the country. He might have had beginning signs of it the last year of the presidency, but I really doubt it.

He might not of had a public diagnosis of it until after he had served, but it had been widely hinted at in the media whilst he was president. Spitting Image, UK satirical puppet show, used to regularly run sketches about him 'losing his mind.'

 

[Biggles]

He had a platform and people either elected him for it, or were against HRC’s platform.
And I wouldn’t say his base was what led him to be elected either but rather key states that HRC simply failed to show up at which turned to Trump.

Again true ... but that was 2016. I think enough people "in the middle" decided they would give Trump a chance as, for whatever reason, they didn't like HRC, & that was enough to tip the EC Trump's way. Now those people have had a chance to see Trump in action. Rather than "pivoting" to the centre, Trump has doubled down on the divisive rhetoric & confrontation. This continues to play great with his base, who are very visible & vocal, but turns off centrists. The one thing in Trump's favour has been the relative strength of the economy, which rightly or wrongly Trump is given credit for. The current crisis demonstrates how shaky that is.

Trump's base is clearly not going to change allegiance, but it's possible a lot of independents disillusioned with the tone of Trumpian politics may shift their vote this time & vote Democrat. This could swing Wisconsin, Michigan & Pennsylvania back to the Democrats, & possibly even Florida, North Carolina & Maine.

 

[Danoff]

Trump's base is clearly not going to change allegiance, but it's possible a lot of independents disillusioned with the tone of Trumpian politics may shift their vote this time & vote Democrat. This could swing Wisconsin, Michigan & Pennsylvania back to the Democrats, & possibly even Florida, North Carolina & Maine.

I totally agree. But I'm an often accused of optimism.

 

[jjaisli]

Trump's base is clearly not going to change allegiance, but it's possible a lot of independents disillusioned with the tone of Trumpian politics may shift their vote this time & vote Democrat. This could swing Wisconsin, Michigan & Pennsylvania back to the Democrats, & possibly even Florida, North Carolina & Maine.

I have to point out again, that Trump received fewer (total) votes than either John McCain in 2008 or Mitt Romney in 2012. He won, not in a landslide of votes, but in a drought of votes for the opposition. We could debate all day over the reason for that: Hillary being a much maligned and disliked figure (one who was targeted and lambasted by the right for years, fueling the fire), one who took advantage of inter party politics to surge head of Sanders in the primaries, which likely turned off Sanders base, who probably stayed home, her aloof attitude while campaigning, etc.

It's for this reason that the democratic establishment is desperate to promote Joe Biden. Because just like the Trump camp knew already a year ago, he would eventually be the front runner and would likely garner the most support, nation wide. Like many here, I think of Joe Bidden and my first reaction is to sigh. But I'm pretty sure he's going to be our next President. And at this point, I think the country needs somebody who can bring the country together and not further divide the people.

 

[Swagger897]

Again true ... but that was 2016. I think enough people "in the middle" decided they would give Trump a chance as, for whatever reason, they didn't like HRC, & that was enough to tip the EC Trump's way. Now those people have had a chance to see Trump in action. Rather than "pivoting" to the centre, Trump has doubled down on the divisive rhetoric & confrontation. This continues to play great with his base, who are very visible & vocal, but turns off centrists. The one thing in Trump's favour has been the relative strength of the economy, which rightly or wrongly Trump is given credit for. The current crisis demonstrates how shaky that is.

Trump's base is clearly not going to change allegiance, but it's possible a lot of independents disillusioned with the tone of Trumpian politics may shift their vote this time & vote Democrat. This could swing Wisconsin, Michigan & Pennsylvania back to the Democrats, & possibly even Florida, North Carolina & Maine.

My question to that would be why? Why would someone who voted for Trump be pushed away this time by his personality? I don’t see how most middle class families have been affected in a negative manner since 2016 to be put in a position where they long for a new opponent to change their day-to-day lives.

 

[Danoff]

My question to that would be why? Why would someone who voted for Trump be pushed away this time by his personality? I don’t see how most middle class families have been affected in a negative manner since 2016 to be put in a position where they long for a new opponent to change their day-to-day lives.

I think a lot of people assumed he was joking, or would not go through with the crazier stuff that he said. And he has a horrible track record of actually trying to do the craziest stuff he talked about, and in the worst possible way, since then.

 

[Biggles]

My question to that would be why? Why would someone who voted for Trump be pushed away this time by his personality? I don’t see how most middle class families have been affected in a negative manner since 2016 to be put in a position where they long for a new opponent to change their day-to-day lives.

The whole tone of American politics has become unbelievably divisive. I know many deeply committed Trump supporters actually revel in this, but I think you'll find a lot of Americans find it abhorrent. People who don't appreciate an authoritarian President constantly pushing the boundaries of Presidential power, are also disturbed by the idea of four more years of Trump.

Unemployment is down, but I would question whether the underlying fundamentals for most blue collar workers have changed much. That's because it's not in Trump's power to change what are basic structural problems in the economy. Trump's "trade war" has had very mixed consequences for most American families. Large tax cuts, primarily to corporations & the wealthy, have stimulated the economy, but at the cost of increased deficits which means those structural problems are just being kicked down the road.

Consider that our own Danoff is seriously contemplating voting for Joe Biden - that should give an indication of the way things could move in November. Notwithstanding Danoff's considerable impact on the race, the key demographic will be white, suburban women, that & a more motivated Demographic turnout than was the case in 2016, when the expectation was that Clinton would inevitably win.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

My question to that would be why? Why would someone who voted for Trump be pushed away this time by his personality? I don’t see how most middle class families have been affected in a negative manner since 2016 to be put in a position where they long for a new opponent to change their day-to-day lives.

"I remember thinking this Trump thing is insane, but when it was down to him and Hillary, I kind of said, 'Well, you are a Republican, and yeah he's nuts, but maybe he'll get better and you know he's going to lower taxes," Taylor said. "I slowly talked myself into it. 'He can't seriously be this deranged once he gets in there,' and he's even more deranged now than I thought then. So, I take the blame. I voted for him."

REPUBLICAN MAYOR DROPS DONALD TRUMP FOR JOE BIDEN IN KEY SWING STATE OF MICHIGAN

I don't think many Americans appreciate the malice and cruelty Trump marinates in. Some do of course...nihilists and those acting in bad faith, but I like to believe those are not the majority of Americans. I honestly don't see how anyone who considers themselves a "nice person" could support Trump...

 

[Joey D]

Do you know what's a good way to get voters? Swear at them and tell them they don't know anything, that'll get em:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/10/politics/joe-biden-testy-gun-exchange-michigan-worker/index.html

Oh, wait. Trump does that and it works so maybe Biden thinks it'll work too?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Do you know what's a good way to get voters? Swear at them and tell them they don't know anything, that'll get em:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/10/politics/joe-biden-testy-gun-exchange-michigan-worker/index.html

Oh, wait. Trump does that and it works so maybe Biden thinks it'll work too?

I don't think this will impact Biden negatively. If anything, it shows him at least in an alert state and ready to tussle. And as you mentioned, he's running against Trump so it's not like the other side can argue Trump is a paragon of grace and draw any meaningful contrast. Also his rebuttal was pretty decent - Joe Biden is seemingly one of the least likely democratic candidates to be in the "repeal 2a" camp.

 

[Joey D]

I don't think this will impact Biden negatively. If anything, it shows him at least in an alert state and ready to tussle. And as you mentioned, he's running against Trump so it's not like the other side can argue Trump is a paragon of grace and draw any meaningful contrast. Also his rebuttal was pretty decent - Joe Biden is seemingly one of the least likely democratic candidates to be in the "repeal 2a" camp.

I'm not so sure, I went back and watched the video again. I'm not sure what he's trying to say, especially with this:

"And from the very beginning: I have a shotgun, I have a 20-gauge, a 12-gauge. My sons hunt, guess what? You're not allowed to own any weapon, I'm not taking your gun away at all."

My sons hunt and guess what? You're not allowed to own any weapon? That doesn't really make sense to me and sounds like he forgot a couple of words along the way. My guess is he was trying to say that you can't just go buy any gun you want but hunting rifles are fine. If this is how Biden debates he's going to get trounced in a debate with Trump. Trumps going to latch onto a handful of things and just drill Biden into the ground. Also, for the best of us, Trump is hard to follow and I have to imagine he's going to attempt to confuse Biden and make him look more senile than he already does.

All this does leave me wondering, could Biden pick Clinton as his VP. Get elected, then step down due to cognitive impairment?

 

[Biggles]

I'm not so sure, I went back and watched the video again. I'm not sure what he's trying to say, especially with this:

"And from the very beginning: I have a shotgun, I have a 20-gauge, a 12-gauge. My sons hunt, guess what? You're not allowed to own any weapon, I'm not taking your gun away at all."

My sons hunt and guess what? You're not allowed to own any weapon? That doesn't really make sense to me and sounds like he forgot a couple of words along the way. My guess is he was trying to say that you can't just go buy any gun you want but hunting rifles are fine. If this is how Biden debates he's going to get trounced in a debate with Trump. Trumps going to latch onto a handful of things and just drill Biden into the ground. Also, for the best of us, Trump is hard to follow and I have to imagine he's going to attempt to confuse Biden and make him look more senile than he already does.

All this does leave me wondering, could Biden pick Clinton as his VP. Get elected, then step down due to cognitive impairment?

OK. Trump could shoot someone on 5th Avenue & not lose any of his voters. Joe could be a bit incoherent at times & not lose any voters.

That's what it's come to.

 

[Joey D]

OK. Trump could shoot someone on 5th Avenue & not lose any of his voters. Joe could be a bit incoherent at times & not lose any voters.

That's what it's come to.

Unfortunately yes. Out of 330 million Americans, the best two candidates the main parties could muster are two grumpy old guys that have questionable mental stability, sexual assault/harassment alligations, and like to ramble.

This election is going to come down to, do people hate Trump enough to elect Biden or will Biden's cognitive ability hinder him? It's really hard to tell and I'm honestly not sure. I don't think Biden can beat Trump give the way our electoral process is. Trump will probably get fewer votes, but I suspect he will still get enough electoral votes to win overall. I'm not sure if the US can manage four more years of Trump, but at the same time I'm not sure how the US would manage under Biden. Thankfully, I think if Biden wins he will be a one-term president that doesn't really do anything and that might not be a bad thing.

It's probably also dependent on whether Sanders runs as an independent. I don't think he would, but I'm not exactly ruling that out either. I'm also not sure how the more vocal part of Sanders' supporters will vote either. I know in 2016 many of them went to the Green Party and I could see them doing that again.

Really the Greens and the Libertarians need to put out a candidate that has some serious appeal to more voters. Making it a four-candidate race instead of a two-candidate race would be interesting.

All I can think of is Howard Dean and how his campaign fell off the rail because he was excited. We've come (or rather fallen) a long way. Biden should've just run in 2016, made Clinton his running mate, and we'd probably be in a vastly different situation right now. I suspect I wouldn't agree with what they did, but I will concede that we'd probably be better off when it comes to foreign relations and our country wouldn't have so many profoundly dumb people yelling, or at least we'd pay them less attention.

 

[PeterJB]

Trump stumbles over his words from time to time but Biden is struggling to form coherent sentences. It's unlikely America will elect someone who can't hold conversations with foreign leaders or starts forgetting where they are and why.

 

[Dotini]

Trump stumbles over his words from time to time but Biden is struggling to form coherent sentences. It's unlikely America will elect someone who can't hold conversations with foreign leaders or starts forgetting where they are and why.

Time is what prevents everything from happening at once. So one thing at a time. All we can ask of Joe is to defeat Don. Once he has served his figurehead purpose, there are numerous scenarios in which he does not take the oath of office. He may be a moth-eaten puppet, but the ends justify the means.

 

[PeterJB]

Time is what prevents everything from happening at once. So one thing at a time. All we can ask of Joe is to defeat Don. Once he has served his figurehead purpose, there are numerous scenarios in which he does not take the oath of office. He may be a moth-eaten puppet, but the ends justify the means.

Then America can join us in the game of let the party choose the leader instead of the public.

 

[Famine]

It's unlikely America will elect someone who can't hold conversations with foreign leaders or starts forgetting where they are and why.

It did. He's in office right now.

 

[Dotini]

Then America can join us in the game of let the party choose the leader instead of the public.

Yes. Under the circumstances, democracy appears to be sort of a consensual delusion.