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The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread
- Thread starter Sanji Himura
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Keef
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Not sure if the number was Tuesday-wide or a particular state, but somebody brought up a stat showing that Bernie's under-30 support went from 14% in 2016 to 7% this time.
Now who knows what could've caused this, because an increase in older support also would've taken that percentage down - remember, there are a lot more older people than there are younger people, and older people still suffer from Red Scare which means they'll passionately vote against Sanders and go with Biden or Bloomberg. The demographics show this trend did exist.
Another point is, eh, I forget the name of the phenomenon but it's when the winning group gets complacent because they think they have a huge lead. It happens in everything from voting to sports. I think young people are even more prone to this due to lack of experience, so when they see Bernie winning all the polls they think, "Eh, he'll be fine" as a justification for missing the polls. The problem arises when thousands of people do this, completely unaware that other people are having the exact same thought. The whole purpose of "getting out the vote" is to combat this but it still plays a role in people not showing up.
I talked to a girl who lives near SF who said she didn't vote because she "wasn't registered for a political party". I straightened her out on that one. It could be that California complacency or she could've just not known all she had to do was request the democratic ballot at the polls, I don't know. A lot of kids just don't know how to vote, and I find it interesting that our public education system doesn't even teach them how to vote, or at least it didn't when I was in school.
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- Simcoeace
Or ... they just aren't that interested. It's easy to be persuaded by the enthusiasm of a relatively small number of people - like Bernie supporters at a rally (or Trump supporters, for that matter). I remember sitting in an Ann Arbor restaurant immediately before the 2000 election & hearing a group of students discussing the election. They were confidently predicting that Ralph Nader was going to win, because "everyone they knew was going to vote for him".
I think you're right though that turn out was unusually high among older voters- a reflection of how disliked Trump is - & they would have voted predominantly for the moderate Democratic candidate.
With regard to gender bias:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51751915
According to a new UN report, about half of the world's men and women feel that men make better political leaders.
In China, 55% of people thought men were better suited to be political leaders.
Around 39% of people in the US, which is yet to have a female president, thought men made better leaders.
However in New Zealand, a country that currently has a female leader, only 27% of people thought that.
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Open primary states very well could have had large amount of Trump supporters voting in the Democratic primary - and probably against Bernie as a hedge rather than the more risky for Bernie as an easier opponent for Trump. The Examiner was openly advocating for just this: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/yes-its-conservative-to-vote-for-joe-biden-in-a-primary
Keef
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Yikes. I've though about this. It's actually more practical for them to do so because Trump just dominates his party vote as incumbents usually do. It's a good strategy...a dick move, but a good strategy.
And I wouldn't put it past Trump voters to make dick moves.
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In less informed days I voted for Hilary in the 2008 Texas primary as a hedge against a Barrack Obama presidency though I supported the Republican party at the time. Then again, the Republican party wasn't quite as Machiavellian-nihilist as it is now. I don't think I could have adequately/reasonably supported my fierce opposition to Obama at the time other than "hur hur socialist"...but I was only 19 and living in sub-suburban Texas so I'll forgive myself. What a decent human and calm & steady president he was.
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- mustafur
Hillary is a stronger candidate then Joe Biden imo, atleast Hillary can think on her feet, Biden is in mental decline it's going to be embarrassing in a one on one debate.
Just look at how Biden debated Paul Ryan in 2012 in a VP debate and compare that to now, it's obvious he is gone mentally.
Just look at how Biden debated Paul Ryan in 2012 in a VP debate and compare that to now, it's obvious he is gone mentally.
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That is the point I've been making. Biden should have run in 2016, at which time I think he would have beaten Trump. Now he has emerged as the "safe" candidate at a time when his faculties appear to be on the decline. The Democratic field was full of strong candidates, from Corey Booker & Kamala Harris to Mike Bloomberg & Pete Buttigieg to Elizabeth Warren & Bernie Sanders ... but none of them ticked all the boxes. Sanders has been the strongest & most consistent from the start, but Democrats (& not just "the Establishment") appear to have decided that he's too risky & have chosen to go with the compromise candidate. Will it matter? Will enough people vote for Biden regardless of how he does in debates or general campaigning because they despise Trump? The VP choice is going to be critical IMO.
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Keef
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I was the same age, working in a machine shop, surrounded by people old men listening to conservative talk radio all day. I was a Ron Paul supporter at the time. Or "RuPaul" as all the old guys called him.
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- Lazer0pz
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There are likely other factors at play here besides complacency and apathy. College students often find it difficult to vote; people waited for hours to cast their vote at places like UCLA and Texas Southern. And while it's sometimes just a matter of underestimating turnout, there are also efforts by GOP legislatures across the country to suppress the college vote.
It's easy to just sit back and say that the kids these days are too lazy to vote. A closer look shows it isn't quite so simple.
Danoff
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I'm still thinking about this a lot. Yesterday I came to a realization that what has been shown to me during the Trump administration is that there are some real non-political aspects to what makes a good candidate for president, or what makes a good representative. Some of the intangibles that Trump lacks, like integrity, leadership, responsibility, and a strong understanding of how to manage, are very important qualities.
I had taken these for granted for a long time. Because we had a string of candidates that supplied these qualities (at least sufficiently) on both sides of the aisle. When it was Bush vs. Gore, there wasn't an obvious winner on those issues. Same for Bush vs. Kerry. Same for Obama vs. McCain, and Obama vs. Romney. It wasn't even clear to me that there was a difference on that front with Hillary vs. Trump. But now there is, at least there is in my mind unless it is Trump vs. Bernie.
To an extent, I got to be lazy. Because if I know that the winner is going to posses those qualities, I can vote on the issues alone, and go 3rd party even if the 3rd party candidate doesn't live up in that regard. I'm not 100% sure I ever actually did that, I think Gary Johnson would have made a much better President than Trump or Hillary. But there is at least the temptation to vote for a 3rd party candidate that you don't actually want to win, just because you want to speak loudly on specific issues. And I don't think that's really how voting should work.
When you vote, you should pick the candidate that best represents you. Regardless of whether they're going to win. But what trump has shown me is that there are all of these qualifications for president that I simply can't take for granted. Because he doesn't have them. So now I'm left really considering whether the Libertarian candidate will have the strength of character, people management, and integrity to be president. And it's not something that I've spent as much time considering... for any of the candidates... until Trump showed me what it looks like when it's missing. So now all of the sudden I have to weigh a position on abortion or universal healthcare against honesty, integrity, and leadership.
That's as it should be, but it's more complicated than it used to be. When I see someone like Vermin on the LP.org website, it gives me pause to the credibility of the party's candidates.
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Keef
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The tea party thing went off the rails almost immediately, as soon as Trump got traction. Speaking of the tegridy that @Danoff mentioned, you'll notice that all those tea partiers immediately tossed their values to support a president who kinda sorta wants to be a dictator. Justin Amash actually left the Republican party because he couldn't stand to be associated with that lack of principle.
We need some damn tegridy in the White House.
Joey D
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Speaking of Amash, a politician I rather like, he could try his luck as the Libertarian candidate in November. I'd vote for him without too much hesitation.
https://www.fox17online.com/news/po...sidering-running-for-president-as-libertarian
Keef
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Carter handed over control of his business to a board during his presidency. Not only did he advise Americans to save energy, he turned the heat down in his own house and bundled up like the rest of us. He also testified to congress during his investigation which is a big point.
That's tegridy.
But apparently he was kind of an asshole.
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It's often said that Carter was a better man than President. Going strictly by the non-political qualities required of a desirable President, Carter seemingly ticks most boxes.
And it is true that he relinquished control of his businesses during his time in office. There was certainly no violation of emoluments clauses or personal profiteering unlike, say, hosting government and party functions at your own hotels.
And it is true that he relinquished control of his businesses during his time in office. There was certainly no violation of emoluments clauses or personal profiteering unlike, say, hosting government and party functions at your own hotels.
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In other news Gabbard won a delegate from America Samoa on Super Tuesday which would’ve qualified her for the next debate. Unsurprisingly the DNC changed the rules again, making them Vader from Empire; “I am altering the deal, pray I don’t alter it any further.”
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- Chrunch_Houston
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- mustafur
They changed the debate rules to a seated debate taking questions from the Audience.
Let me guess, the Audience is going to be like the last debate where they will cheer anything Biden says and boo anything Bernie says giving Biden constant soft ball questions.
They are trying to hide Biden from a proper 1v1 Debate because he is going to be destroyed.
Let me guess, the Audience is going to be like the last debate where they will cheer anything Biden says and boo anything Bernie says giving Biden constant soft ball questions.
They are trying to hide Biden from a proper 1v1 Debate because he is going to be destroyed.
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Some of the things marked ??? I found perfectly understandable. Other things... hmmm... extreme tiredness or something worse?
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I wouldn't worry about Trump if I were you. Sure he might want Greenland, but I don't think he has any interest in taking over Scandinavia.
It is scary first and foremost, because of his stance on Climatechange.
Joey D
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I started poking around and found that Biden released his medical records online. It looks like he's taking Crestor, which has numerous side effects including confusion and memory loss. It's a relatively small number of people who experience this, but it does happen and I wonder if that's what's going on with Biden? Either that or he's in the very early stages of Alzheimer's which would be awful.
I'm really don't get why both parties keep pushing older people to run for office. The president undergoes insane amounts of stress and would be hard on a 45-year-old. How two candidates (Sanders and Biden), who are 77 and 78 plan to stay strong enough for four years is a bit of a puzzle to me. Then imagine if they run for another term and win, that would them at 85 and 86, which is old by any standard. Granted there are people who continue to live and active lifestyle well into their 90's, my great-grandma was one of those people, but none of those people have the stressors a president has.
I'm really don't get why both parties keep pushing older people to run for office. The president undergoes insane amounts of stress and would be hard on a 45-year-old. How two candidates (Sanders and Biden), who are 77 and 78 plan to stay strong enough for four years is a bit of a puzzle to me. Then imagine if they run for another term and win, that would them at 85 and 86, which is old by any standard. Granted there are people who continue to live and active lifestyle well into their 90's, my great-grandma was one of those people, but none of those people have the stressors a president has.
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