I know you said you were leaving (and due to the time you probably have), but you got started on a response to me, so I will give you a reply out of respect...and so we can see your contradictions all on one page.
You cant toss morality aside in all of this...
I'm not. I find it morally incomprehensible to deny equality for consenting adults. If you looked at my past in this thread at all you would realize that my stance is there should be no legal involvement in marriage at all. If two straight guys want to create a similar financial and legal arrangement then they should. If a group of random strangers want to get together and negotiate a group health insurance plan, they should. But as long as government feels the need to determine who can and can't be married then their policies must be equal in a free society (I'll get to your constitutional points later).
a few years from now there going to be saying, if gays can marry , why cant I marry my dog,
Not a human or legally recognized citizen. Let's move on. And to be honest, we already accept people treating pets like kids and every other douchebag gets to take their "emotional support" dog on a plane these days. Do what you want with your dog. It's not human. If you want to argue it does have rights, then keep in mind they do not posess the ability to give consent. And every one that humps a leg should be considered a sexual predator.
(and yes, half of that is said in a snarky, sarcastic tone)
Are they of legal age of consent? Meh, who cares.
" two consenting adults" thing is pathetic .
When you think it applies to dogs, yeah. But that's your problem. By the way, aren't you studying law?
And I don't limit that rule to just two adults, since you were responding to a comment about polygamy.
I find it more morally right to marry a cousin than another man..
Just for giggles...
I'm all for gay marriage,
So, I guess you are more for incestual marriage too, as long as the majority agrees on it?
and to prove peoples twisted world on this.. two straight guys cant do anything together anymore without being questioned if gay.
Try having a good, platonic female friend. Everyone will think you are dating. How twisted is that?
Just last month a girl walked up to me and my best friend and said we were a cute couple, this of course lead to an very strange ," were not gay" speech and most importantly , many children and men find it hard to bond with other men like they did 50 hell even 10 years ago due to the fact that they may be considered gay.
Weird. I hang out with friends all the time. We go to movies, drink, play video games, drink, go out to eat, drink, play sports, drink, play cards, drink, travel and share hotel rooms (beds even if there are more than two of us), drink, and look at porn...often while drinking. No one ever thought we were gay, even with the one guy who always seems to wind up without his pants on before the night is finished.
Once, I had an awkward "we're not gay" moment. That was when my brother-in-law just blurted it out to a waitress for no reason. She actually knew me because it is where I do most of my drinking (I see a theme) and just laughed and then asked how my wife and daughter were. I later found out that his father had just recently asked him if he were gay because he hadn't had a date in over a year, so he was disturbed by that. Turns out he is severely obsessive compulsive and unable to maintain a close relationship. So, in my experience, the only guys bothered by having to clarify that they arent gay aren't comfortable with their sexuality.
And I don't know how old you are, but people were awkward about this ten years ago, and 50 years ago. Or do you forget the Mitt Romney story about bullying the guy with long hair when he was in high school? No one defended him with a comment about not being concerned about homosexuality back then. Mainly because if you were openly gay there was a chance you could get killed, and the majority of society had no problem with that.
Things are taboo for a reason.
Ignorance, hatred, bigotry?
Don't get me wrong, I make fun of a lot of stuff in certain circles. You may even call me an equal opportunity offender. But at the end of the day, I will defend their right to be that way.
And as far as I know he vast majority of the people on this earth agree with me.
Ask your law professors about the concept of the tyranny of the majority and why the US is a republic, not a democracy.
Toss morality aside and you have nothing.
Exactly, which is why defending a majority opinion is very, very dangerous in light of history.
NO ONE needs to know what you do in the bed room, yet Gays in general are loud and proud of the fact.. whoop de doo.. don't need to know. Heck some of my close friends in school are lesbian , the three don't ever say anything about it. Yet the one gay guy i do know.. is all out there. Like okay, there's a reason i feel uncomfortable around them and its not because what they do in bed .
I assume you mean flamboyant? Or maybe politically outspoken?
Either way, how is that different than these guys?
You forget china and India are very traditional ;P
Well then, we should model ourselves after them. Kill every third child and gang rape women on buses.
My evidence is general knowledge that there population is 69% of the world .
Im not going to dabble into the real deal since people shoot it down really quick , but keep arguing about a subject that's black and white, no ones gonna win EVER.
Real deal? You mean facts?
Technically, someone will win this debate when laws are passed one way or another.
The only reason animals mate is to reproduce, hence our natural predilection of women.
You clearly aren't married. I wonder if you've ever been in a long-term relationship with a sexual component.
If you are in a relationship and currently sexually active go to your wife, girlfriend, whatever, and explain to her that you are only with her to reproduce! that there is no emotional component involved at all. Then see if you get any ever again.
Also, go to your straight guy friends and tell them you are only interested in girls so you can have kids. Actually, I suggest you say this to the guys first because you are going to want to ask your mate if she has any burn cream before you tell her about the nature of your relationship.
Now either . Gays have a MUTATION * does not mean there bad people* in there chromosomal structure * not dna*
But aren't chromosomes what make DNA. And are you basically trying to say homosexuality is just a minor form of gender disorder?
that makes them attracted to males OR there confusing love with lust. I love my best friend, id die for him. But in no way or world would I ever have sex with him.
Confusing love with lust. Must be why so many gay guys I know become physically aroused at the mere sight of a guy they find attractive. Love at first sight, every single day. I confuse love with lust every time I open an incognito window.
Again this slippery slope crap is the pure truth, things start some way. Besides infertility is the death of your linage , Homosexuality is a form of infertility and further verifies studies suggesting homosexuality is a physiological issue and not a inherent one.
I have no clue what you are saying now. I understand the slippery slope bit, but I don't see wny harm in equal rights slippery slopes. First the slaves, then the women's vote, then black vote ,then civil rights...I mean, where does it end?
If homosexuality were passed from parent to child then maybe the rest would have made a sliver of sense.
Marriage by LAW is union between a man and woman.
Yeah. Changing the law is the issue at hand. Arguing for the law with "it's the law" is a bit silly.
Many women rights supporters during the progressives sought to abolish it due to the fact the union was an economical bondage that made the woman to an extent dependent * at the time they were*. they can have civil union but no, gays want marriage.
I want to abolish the legal jurisdiction over marriage. It grants special privileges to certain people and, quite frankly, I think telling government they have the power to tell people who can and can't get married creates a very dangerous slippery slope. Besides, my marriage is based on far more than a certificate, I never read, that is kept at the court house. It's even based on far more than reproduction.
Religion was not mentioned , your arguing with a person who's majoring law at CSUR.
And I work for the government. What's your point? Studying law makes you no more correct than anyone else on what is right and wrong. I mean, for the last 12 years we've had a president who studied law at schools we've all heard of and they were both lying idiots.
OPEN YOUR EYES Oh and go do what monkeys do at the zoo, because its "natural" or what dogs do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGrdSto_w_U yup were suppose to do that.
You do realize you started with the natural thing, right? In fact, I think you even referred to it as a biological failure at one point. Or was that not your point in explaining how we only mate to reproduce, or went on about chromosomes *not DNA* possibly playing a role?
Yes It is not in the constitution, and according to article nine of the bill of rights everything not mentioned in the federal documents is left up to the states. I'm all for gay marriage, But its incorrect and ill stand by my views and as long as my state abolishes it so be it, what your arguing about is national legalization something I will not stand for.
Two points. 1) The Constitution can be amended. Kind of obvious when you are talking about the 9th Amendment. Alcohol wasn't part of the Constitution either, and then it was amended to prohibit alcohol, superseding the 9th Amendment on that issue. Similarly, we could amend the constitution to allow homosexual marriage nationwide.
2). Whether they realize it or not, people in the US are referring to state law. They may think they are talking about federal law, but their points regarding changing laws still stand, just on a state level.
Again. Its black and white . No ones going to win, why even argue!
I wish you had asked yourself that before you got started.
And half of what I say are satirical remarks at things you guys come up with , the monkeys a come back to the " homosexuality in animals" link. Again. Morals will go back and forward, law wise we go back and forward, but the point is. ITs my point of view, its YOUR point of view. I think its wrong but that does not mean I'm gonna hold them back from marrying each other, The tile of the thread is not about gay marriage but about homosexuality,. I agree with marring them but I find it to a be immoral. How is that a shocker..
Because you took a painfully long time to say that. You were just going on about morally wrong and infertility and biological failures.
and read what i said about Article nine, What I'm saying is, let it be legalized were people agree * one state* and not where its deemed wrong. How is that impossible..
Because we are a republic and not a democracy, there is a chance even a democratically voted on law is wrong. Just because something is legal does not make it right. And in a republic, just because something is voted on doesn't make it legal, especially if your constitution (federal or state) say something about equality or fairness.
Its funny where marriage was beautifal(woman and man) now people just marry to prove that it can work out( gays and lesbians) doesn't work like that, sorry.
Reason it doesn't work out, because its not meant to be. Who says? God, oh you don't believe there's a god, then don't reply to me and move on.
Weird. My lesbian cousin got married in a church, their relationship is very beautiful, seems just like my marriage in all other aspects, and they are about to become the legally recognized guardians of two children who were born with drugs in their system and whose biological parents couldn't even show up to make a case in court for why they should retain custody of their kids.
I wonder if you are trying to say God doesn't approve of their situation and would rather those two kids be stuck in a rough foster system or with parents that clearly don't care for them.
Side note: I am a Christian. I have my religious beliefs, but I also recognize that law and religion are separate things and forcing my beliefs on others makes me no better than communists that outlaw religion or zealot jihadists who kill anyone, by law, who disagree with them. I believe in a god of love, not one of hate and intolerance.
I don't speak for him, I speak of what he has set for mankind.
Such as not eating shrimp or a rare steak? Maybe you mean trimming your beard and the hair on the side of your head. Or killing adulterers and exiling people for having sex during the woman's menstrual period?
All I see here is a lot of people who say they believe in god but rebel against him.
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37
"When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, 'If any of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.'" John 8:7
Homosexuality. Its not meant to be. Here what I have to really say. First off if gays were meant to roam the earth. Wouldn't god just make gays in the first place? Here a small scenrio. Adam and eve are wife and husband. God could had done adam and another man, but no he made man and woman. So homosexuality was created by humans, not common nature. Disagree or agree with me, but its just not right to say gays are naturally born.
Do you also condemn hybrid foods, medical inventions, dog breeds, and so forth? If God meant for those to exist he would have just made them, right?
Even if you are correct that it is purely man made, you can't use that to justify saying they aren't even meant and are somehow wrong or immoral, while using an electronically powered device to talk on an international network of linked computers.
Then you can brag about it. But honestly man think about this.
You wouldn't let your naturally gay born 5 yr old be touched by 25 year man, him saying its true love. Keep in mind all gays don't act that way( you already know this). But come on, if you accept gays, then you probably don't care about PETA and their actions.
First of all, no 25-year-old anything is touching my young daughter in the name of true love. What part of consenting adults do you not understand? That goes for everyone who compares accepting/legalizing homosexuality to doing the same for pedophilia. It shows a level of ignorance and bigotry that is beyond belief.
And no, I don't care about PETA. But I tend to ignore most blow hards.
You're the only here that seems to understand what you are saying. If you are going into Law, I imagine being able to clearly present your points would help.
Listen to a defense lawyer or a politician. Flip flopping and being convoluted are a job requirement.
My dad raised an interesting point to me the other day. He says (he's religious and I am not) that in the bible, marriage is to be between a man and a woman. While he doesn't like homosexuality, and he think it's wrong, he isn't against them marrying, he only wishes that the title/term of "marriage" be changed to something else such as a "moral relationship" or something to that effect because the term marriage was specifically meant for a man and woman. That's how he see's it anyways. I kind of agree.
Propose to him that government just get out of it all together and then everyone can call it whatever you like.
He is studying to be a lawyer.
That's a little harsh to be honest.
I will be attending mass in just a few hours. No, it's not too harsh. The upper levels of the church covered it up, and they made the guy in charge of the group that did it pope. They deserve everything they get.
I always wonder where people get the idea to cross dress.
If you asked a million people, you'll probably get at least 500,000 different answers. Some for sexual pleasure, some for fun. However, I do have to say that being a cross dragster and transgender are about as close as being gay and lesbian. Sure, it mostly the same, but they use different "tools".
The last study I heard showed something like 80% of cross dressers were straight. In fact many are married and open about it with their wife. The reasonings are wide, ranging from just bedroom games to feeling more comfortable in clothes traditionally only worn by the opposite gender.
But then transvestites and transsexuals are wholly different categories that lead into gender identity issues and even an inescapable desire to physically alter one's gender. Some may be gay (as in genetically male attracted to male), some are still attracted to their genetic opposite gender, and some may even be kind of asexual.
