The Homosexuality Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Duke
- 9,138 comments
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- 31,741
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
You can only speak for yourself, and take notice of all the facts thrown at you in this thread.
I think it has to do that those who believe don't read the bible themselves but let their church buddy do it for them.
I've read the bible because I wanted to know what I was talking about when discussing it.
- 15,994
- United Kingdom
- haitch40
- Xbox?
- 12,903
- Cambridge
- Moglet85
- Moglet
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Ranman20I'm going to leave it like this. Since I fail alot . I can't speak for anyone, you al have your opinions and so do I. Have a good day.
At the very least, you can understand this country is "supposed" to be about freedom, of life and religion, among other things.
And surely you understand all anti-homosexual views are in some way based religion, right?
Which means you understand why anyone being gay isn't any of your or the governments business, right?
- 4,035
- Gothenburg
- Agremont
Sorry for quoting this post from so far back, but this is not quite true. Yes the gender neutral word "hen" is getting marketed so to speak but it's not meant to be used when the gender is known. Children are of course not forbidden to call their friends him and her. That would be rediculous. Many people have misunderstood this. It's some sort of panic reaction to change.
As for the toy catalouge, it was on one or two pages if I'm not mistaken.
Both of these things got wildly blown out of proportions here in Sweden, and people claimed what you just did. It just isn't true.
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- 23,800
- Philippines
It's in ALL the Bibles. In the Old Testament. Old Hebraic laws forbid the eating of pork, forbid the wearing of blended fibers and forbid working on Saturdays. Also, they require you to knock up the wife of your dead brother if they didn't have kids. The refusal to do so by a certain someone (who pulled out at the last minute and "spilled his seed on the ground") is the basis of the entire Catholic proscription against condoms.
None of the translations are more made up the than the New World one. They're all inaccurate in some way or another. If you want to be a hardcore Christian, you'll read the Bible in its original language, to avoid confusion.
Study the Bible. It'll be good for you, one way or the other.
Lucky us. Our language already has gender neutral pronouns. We don't have a pronoun equivalent to "him" or "her". Which makes it quite funny when native speakers first learn English, they can't always pick out the correct gender pronoun.
We're not hugely homophobic, either... but racist and gender-ist humor is still pretty prevalent in our media.
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- 7,432
- Fort Collins, CO
- Koios1031
- koios1031
Re-reading this two ideas over and over, I have to slightly disagree. You are arguing that cross dressers and transgenders/sexuals are as different as oil and water. That really isn't true. I would argue that groups aren't exactly the same, but not all to dis-similar. I base this with being immersed extensively in the culturally of both groups. You are assuming that the trans-community is changing their appearance just to be with the same sex in a more socially acceptable way. This simply isn't true. Nor is the assumption the trans-community is completely homosexual. It is true that the majority of cross dressers are heterosexual. More so than the trans-community. However, the majority of transgender/sexuals that I have meant are still heterosexual or bisexual. Not homosexual. As weird as that may sound. In fact, in my life, I have found only one transgender that was completely gay. The trans-community changes their bodies for much the same reasons that the cross dressers changes their clothes. Comfort. It really isn't anything more. My father has spent $100,000 changing his body in various ways. However, his sexual preference is still females. He will be with a man, but it is more out of necessity. He changed his body to be a woman. A woman to be with women. Again, the only real difference with my father and a cross dresser is my father doesn't have to stuff his bra with toilet tissue anymore.
- 12,903
- Cambridge
- Moglet85
- Moglet
There are similarities but I over-emphasised the difference due to the nature of some of the posts I am responding too. I imagine Foolkiller did the same. They are different enough to make the distinction.
Where did either of us assume this, exactly?
...and this is more or less exactly what Foolkiller wrote. Neither of us suggested that anyone who considered themselves transgender is more likely to be gay, we were simply distinguishing between the 2 because they are different and not everyone realises that.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
I'm not trying to indicate a genetic inaccuracy any more than I would say being left handed or red headed is an inaccuracy. I don't know enough about genetics to have an educated opinion on that. I was merely trying to point out that the transgendered community is as various as any other group.I would actually have to argue foolkillers last line supports that gays are essentially genetically...."inaccurate".
Meaning something somewhere didn't quite go or do the normal thing. Based mostly on the fact that if you look long and hard enough, there are "mutants" (by evolution definition) of every kind.
Not to say that's bad, one of my better friends is a lesbian, and I wouldn't want her not 'off'.
Nature controls populations on a macro level, in that there are occasional disasters, plagues, etc that wipe out numbers even when overpopulation isn't currently at risk. Homosexuality to reduce reproducing members of society while still creating the mating structure that helps society work together. It could even produce caretakers for children who have lost parents for any number of reasons, much as many societal species will have fostering mothers for orphaned offspring.
It is impossible to tell if that is its natural role, since it is all chaos theory.
Thank god for tramp stamps.
So I was meant to have a deformed heart? I was born that way.
What other legal/financial agreements have different names based on the genders involved? I have sold/bought cars with biff event races and genders and companies. The per work was the same each time. When my parents divorced I had to chose which would be my legal guardian/custodian.
But to put it simply, the law just recognizes citizens except when defining discrimination.
Let me guess, couldn't be bothered to read or quote Romans 12 in context?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+12&version=NIV
I bolded one section for a reason. If he is gay, give him...no that won't work.Romans 12 (NIV)
Ok, I got it. If he wants to marry, give him the license.
But seriously, Romans 12 is about finding your path to serving the lord, and not being told by others how to do it. And it goes on to say that in serving the lord you should do it by loving your enemy, as it is God's to judge, not ours. Give those you see as sinful all the same kindness you will give to your friends. That will either show them the light or let them seal their own fate.
I hope you could accept the NIV translation above. I tried finding this New World Translations, but Bible Gateway didn't have it.
Imagine how I feel. So many people believe so many different things just because they were told it. I've sat in Bible studies and watched people argue over the finer details of their beliefs. Prople rsised in the same church. And when I ask where they got that belief from, or why it even matters in their daily life as a Christian they get mad. Men have destroyed religion. Assuming God is real, he has a mess to sort out.
They are categorized differently in sociological studies, as their degree of transgenderism does vary greatly. Keep in mind, my course in Deviant Sociology was 13 years ago, so my memory may be rusty or the science may have altered a bit. While I may not be using the exactly proper definitions for each group, sociology and psychology do differentiate crossdressing, transvestitism (which also has a fetishism subset), and transsexual. None of them assume homosexual or heterosexual. Due to my work at government use of the different terms is important due to political correctness, because referring to them all as trannies or shemales is a big no-no.
And then there was the transsexual I had on my staff at my last job, so being correct was a huge deal day-to-day.
I'm sorry if it came out that way, but no I am not.
Also an assumption I haven't made.
As I explained above, I was attempting to describe how they are all in a wide range, the same as any other group. If it did not seem that way, I apologize. It was like 3:00 AM or 4:00 AM when I posted that.
In my personal and professional life I have had a great deal of interactions with members of the transgendered community. Far more than I would have ever imagined 20 years ago. But college was a crazy time of hitting every bar and club and bring good friends with officers of the local LGBT group on campus. And then there was my dad's stepbrother, Giles, who I ran into ten years later when I met Gillian. My mom is still trying to get her head around that, since they would sit and talk all the time at family dinners.
None of this makes me an expert, but I want it flear that I am not trying to pigeon hole them due to some form of ignorance. If snything, knowing the extent of my ignorance is exactly why I don't try to pigeon hole them. It is hard to know anything truly about them until you talk to each individual about their own personal situation. Unfortunately, it is still a fairly taboo subject in our society and even studying it tends to get a scientist odd looks from within his own community. Due to this there is a lot of misunderstanding. And due to the gender identity nature of some individuals even defining homosexuality is difficult. I've even known two different male to female transsexuals who disagreed on if being attracted to genetic women made them straight or lesbians. And I'm not even sure how to describe two transsexuals of the same genetic gender.
In short, if you know a transgender individual and want to understand them, ask politely. Only they can tell you.
- 352
- Finland
- XoravaX
Well, isn't at least that Falun school food incident true? That the cook was ordered to make the food less good because it wasn't fair for the students in the other schools in the region who had worse food.
Equalisation. Yeah.
That piece of news for all people who don't understand Swedish: http://www.thelocal.se/43656/20121006/#.URi7HGfhfN8
You see why Finns often keep Swedes a bit "weird", so to say. It's mostly due to our media, but part of it is truth-based.
- 7,432
- Fort Collins, CO
- Koios1031
- koios1031
I apologize to Moglet and Foolkiller. Living with a transgender in today's day and age has made me rather sensitive, I suppose. I may have misread your posts. Well, very obviously, more to the fact, I have. I also never meant to offend if I have. This situation is not the easiest thing to live with. For all my open-mindedness, it is still difficult to accept that a parent isn't at all what you grew up idolizing as a child. I spent the whole of my adult life defended a man, that I soon forgot to whom I defended against. Ranman20 and TheeFrogmanlego had most definitely raised my ire.
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- 27,222
- United Kingdom
While that is a bit odd, it's utterly ridiculous to compare it to gay people getting married.
What you have in the example above is positive discrimination or "affirmative action" - i.e. deliberately making it easier for those with traditionally fewer opportunities to have the same opportunities as others, at the expense of another group.
An example in the UK are measures in place requiring businesses to hire a certain proportion of "ethnic minorities" for a job. In such a scenario, a black person might be given a job over a white person not because they're better qualified, but because the company needs to fill a quota from minority groups.
Gay people being allowed to marry doesn't affect the marriage of anyone else. It is at nobody else's expense. Anyone who thinks it devalues their own marriage that a same sex couple has exactly the same rights as them is a moron.
There's no "over-equalisation" going on in same-sex marriage, simply equal rights.
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- Gothenburg
- Agremont
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- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
How do you know that governments in Western Democracies, now known for bending over backwards to be politically correct, won't apply the same "affirmative action" philosophy to gay marriage. I can easily see, in the fuzzy world of goverment logic, a policy in Ontario that says, "Hey, married gay people can't get pregnant on their own so we're going to make a couple of changes in all fairness to the traditionally discriminated against gay population"
1. For lesbian couples, artificial insemination is now free of charge as many times as you want. After all it's not fair that heterosexual couples can impregnate at will and lesbians can't so we have to give them something that costs that taxpayers millions of dollars to make it fair.
2. All homosexual couples move to the front of the line for adoptions. After all it's not fair that heterosexuals can breed at will so gays should get the first shot at adoptions.
Hasn't happened yet of course, but it's not hard to imagine it happening, expecially in Ontario, and then it would affect heterosexual marriages and all taxpayers. You can't put anything out of the reach of any government that thinks that reverse discrimination, aka "affirmative action", makes any sense in an enlightened society.
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