The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[jamiebeech]

Because it's in off-topic? Did you read it?

Although we had got off-topic in bibliographic discussions... apologies mods

No just jumped straight in, didn't realise it was in off topic.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The moment anyone uses liberal as an insult, I start to feel sorry for them. The fact that they think that being open-minded is the most abhorrent, immoral and inexcusable behaviour a human can engage in speaks volumes about them.

Liberal doesn't mean "open minded" and more than conservative means close minded or anything else. Liberals have their agenda as do conservatives and are both are almost entirely unaccepting of any variance in their beliefs. I believe in keeping an open mind..most every liberal I have ever met does not.

 

[DK]

"Keeping an open mind" doesn't mean being instantly accepting of new ideas, it's accepting those new ideas with sufficient evidence.

There are few people I have found more closed-minded than religious conservatives.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Less an explanation than a factor in how that person expresses their sexuality. Someone brought up in a very strictly fundamentalist community isn't expected to express homosexual tendencies as someone who is not.

This is most clearly seen in adopted children of same-sex couples, or children exposed to same-sex couples. These children either become heterosexual or homosexual based on the same reasons most people become heterosexual or homosexual: genes and hormones.

So far, there has been no conclusive evidence pointing to social factors over-riding gender identification.

That's the point I was trying to make... albeit in a rather ham-fisted fashion.

Studies have found various good indicators for the preference towards homosexuality in a number of studies that covered all kinds of factors. In a fairly equal balance these covered potential causes which one might loosely group into Nature or Nurture.

Many people are different and for many different reasons.

There's one thing you said that I'd probably like to debate; the social factors that are most likely to lead to long-term homosexual propensity aren't related to home-life per se (although the expression of them is) but to adolescent sexual experiences, either sole, mutual or social. I don't agree that those studies can equally inform theories on "gender identification", I believe that to be a wholly separate subject to that of 'simple' sexual preference.

 

[niky]

Liberal doesn't mean "open minded" and more than conservative means close minded or anything else. Liberals have their agenda as do conservatives and are both are almost entirely unaccepting of any variance in their beliefs. I believe in keeping an open mind..most every liberal I have ever met does not.

What concepts would you like them to believe in? Like I've said, the term is often confused and mixed with many other things. If the discussion is on the economy, then you're most likely thinking of socialism.

There's one thing you said that I'd probably like to debate; the social factors that are most likely to lead to long-term homosexual propensity aren't related to home-life per se (although the expression of them is) but to adolescent sexual experiences, either sole, mutual or social. I don't agree that those studies can equally inform theories on "gender identification", I believe that to be a wholly separate subject to that of 'simple' sexual preference.

While social experiences do inform a person's expectations of gender roles... ergo... how normal young men think it is to wear a skirt (aye, we call them kilts) or frilly shirts... this indeed, is different from sexual preference.

Living in an environment that doesn't ostracize homosexual behaviour doesn't change your propensity towards it. It's living in one that does that forces you into hiding it. Ergo: the incidence of homosexuality in non-permissive homes and societies is probably much higher than reported. It's just hidden.

 

[Johnnypenso]

What concepts would you like them to believe in? Like I've said, the term is often confused and mixed with many other things. If the discussion is on the economy, then you're most likely thinking of socialism.

I was responding to your inference that being liberal was = to be open minded. I've never found that to be the case. I've found a ton of people who call themselves liberals on the other hand that believe that their cause was the open-minded side of a discussion, and were unwilling to entertain any discussion that wasn't, in their books, open-minded.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Living in an environment that doesn't ostracize homosexual behaviour doesn't change your propensity towards it. It's living in one that does that forces you into hiding it. Ergo: the incidence of homosexuality in non-permissive homes and societies is probably much higher than reported. It's just hidden.

Yup, absolutely.

@Johnnypenso ; A "liberal" social attitude is normally taken to mean that one is open to ideas, allows people to act in wide boundaries. A "conservative" attitude would generally mean a much narrower envelope.

When you use the words in a political or economic sense they take on different meanings...but I think that in the context of this thread simply the social desriptions are sufficient.

 

[Dennisch]

3 cheers for that armpit of a country called Uganda. The president has signed the anti gay law. What a bunch of moronic people are there on this planet.

The president himself figured that being gay was in your genes, but "scientists" convinced him otherwise.

 

[TenEightyOne]

More details at the Beeb, for those who haven't seen this story. Which can't be many people

 

[Rich S]

3 cheers for that armpit of a country called Uganda. The president has signed the anti gay law. What a bunch of moronic people are there on this planet.

The president himself figured that being gay was in your genes, but "scientists" convinced him otherwise.

In other news the humble president has given a candid video interview with CNN.

 

[Carbonox]

Speaking of Uganda:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progre...s-integrity-says-men-raping-girls-is-natural/

They're on their way to being the most civilized state on earth with ministers like this. 👍

 

[BobK]

In a very narrow sense, he is right though; men raping girls is natural. So is physically attacking someone you disagree with. So is just taking whatever you wish to possess without consulting with the current owner. But civilized people don't do any of these, and we have laws to restrain those who are less-than-civilized.

Just because it's "natural" doesn't make it right.

 

[Dennisch]

Uganda has published a list of 200 "gays" including a popstar and a priest.
And after the law was signed attacks on gays were reported.

The Dutch government has frozen all financial aid to the Uganda government.

 

[Rich S]

In a very narrow sense, he is right though; men raping girls is natural.

That's a bit subjective, as "natural" has a lot of different open ended meanings.

Uganda has published a list of 200 "gays" including a popstar and a priest.
And after the law was signed attacks on gays were reported.

The Dutch government has frozen all financial aid to the Uganda government.

This has gone on in the past numerous times with Ugandan tabloids, they publish a list of gays & call for them to be burned or beaten or stoned or whatever. This happens all the time in Africa, if you saw the movie Hotel Rwanda you can get the idea. Anyways, in the past the plaintiffs have sued and won, so it will be interesting to see what the standard of proof is over there. Simply a rumor, or 1 witness, or physical evidence.... or virtually no evidence & the accused is a political rival of a high up official.

 

[TenEightyOne]

In a very narrow sense, he is right though; men raping girls is natural

Only in a very narrow sense, as you say. I don't think there's a natural gender-to-gender default for people whose intention is to rape, I'd agree that the majority of cases are male>female but I'd avoid saying that it is "natural" above another gender combination.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

In other news the humble president has given a candid video interview with CNN.

...and @Castrol96 comes back into the thread solely to like this post? Oh dear.

It's terrifying that Uganda has made the goings-on of two consenting adults a life-sentence situation. Just awful.

 

[Castrol96]

...

 

[TenEightyOne]

I didn't kill someone or a homo, so stop acting like I did
...
I thought it was a peaceful site only about gran turismo, but now??, its changed for me.

Someone or a homo? Hard to tell where that rant ends and the entire concept for Little Britain begins.

Incidentally, there's some great GT discussion on here, it's in the GT sections. Ultimately if you're responsible enough to use a publicly-visible forum then you should be responsible enough to censor yourself from discussion that don't interest you.

 

[Famine]

Even behind my back ... And don't go behind my back

You mean going behind your back by tagging you so you get an alert?

I didn't kill someone or a homo

Homosexuals are people too.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Homosexuals are people too.

Reminds me of a satirical Republican-Inclusion post on FB which said "Hey, it doesn't matter if you're normal OR (insert minority epithet here)! ", but in this case the poster was actually being serious. Blimey.

 

[Castrol96]

-

 

[LeMansAid]

@Castrol96 You actually seem like you're genuinely open to new ways of thinking. Getting upset with people will just get in the way of new concepts. And for what it's worth, I thought that it was a bit below the belt and presumptuous of @SlipZtrEm to taunt in such a way.

 

[Agent_47]

I voted "Sin against God/nature." That's my purely personal opinion. I also feel that what somebody else does in their own life is their business. They're not infringing on my rights by being gay, so who cares.

 

[Encyclopedia]

I voted "Sin against God/nature." That's my purely personal opinion. I also feel that what somebody else does in their own life is their business. They're not infringing on my rights by being gay, so who cares.

Why wouldn't you care if you thought someone was doing something very wrong?

 

[Agent_47]

Why wouldn't you care if you thought someone was doing something very wrong?

Just sharing my personal opinion on it. I don't think gay is the way, but who cares? Not my problem.

 

[FoolKiller]

Why wouldn't you care if you thought someone was doing something very wrong?

Why should anyone care what anyone else does if it doesn't affect other people?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Why wouldn't you care if you thought someone was doing something very wrong?

What right do I have to judge the "right or wrong" of what you choose to do in an "intimate" setting? Do I even have the right to feel that what you do is wrong?

I don't want to see a gay couple going at it in the street any more than I want to see a straight couple doing the same, that doesn't make me homophobic. It doesn't mean their action is wrong, just the place.

If, in a more private setting, they want to involve goats, vegetables or David Mellor in a Chelsea shirt then its none of my business. Unless they need someone to work the pulley.

 

[Encyclopedia]

Just sharing my personal opinion on it. I don't think gay is the way, but who cares? Not my problem.

Ok. I guess I interpreted sin as something more serious than that.

Why should anyone care what anyone else does if it doesn't affect other people?

They shouldn't. However it would seem natural to want to oppose that which you find truly wrong. Which is how I first interpreted Agent_47 post.

 

[FoolKiller]

Ok. I guess I interpreted sin as something more serious than that.



They shouldn't. However it would seem natural to want to oppose that which you find truly wrong. Which is how I first interpreted Agent_47 post.

Not everyone thinks it is their job to stop the infidels. Some people recognize sin as something we can only prevent in ourselves.

 

[Brett]

Not everyone thinks it is their job to stop the infidels. Some people recognize sin as something we can only prevent in ourselves.

It is an idea that many need to recognize.