The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[Spurgy 777]

I think I can see what they were trying to say, not that anything "must be included", rather that our curricula should broadly approach British views. Which, to me, would be inclusive curricula.

A lousy way of putting it though and someone's going to get some pain

I agree, I would hope that it's just a badly worded way of saying the basis for everyone's rights should be taught instead of teaching the rights for specific groups.

 

[LeMansAid]

Why doesn't anyone take screenshots when people say stupid things?

Seems to me that it was perhaps unwise, with "stupid" reserved for those who didn't take the time to, or didn't want to see the likely true intent and meaning when greeted by the quote. Those reactions are counter productive and provide fuel for homophobes. We really need to be smarter than that and stop seeking out reasons to be outraged.

 

[Rich S]

I can agree, but on the other hand, I am deeply against it. Yes, I think everyone should be able to be totally free in what they find attractive, and should be able to live out a normal life with not-so ordinary sexual preferences. If everything is regulated and everything happens with consent of both parties, why not? Sex is as natural as eating and breathing. As long as everything happens without harm and abuse, it should be able to be enjoyed.

On the other hand... We're talking about people gawking at/having sex with kids. It's just wrong. "From the heart", this just doesn't sit right with me, even if I can justify it with logic.

I won't deny that I was thinking about sex when I was younger (Around age 12, maybe younger), but to think of it being more widespread... It just makes my skin crawl. It's easier to think you're the creep than to accept that all children develop sexual urges.

Edited as it was a bit off topic/controversial.

Yes I take from the wiki leaks that there should be some regulation but the focus now is all wrong sadly.

 

[Carlos]

I agree, I would hope that it's just a badly worded way of saying the basis for everyone's rights should be taught instead of teaching the rights for specific groups.

You can't teach a right. You can only teach what is socially accepted and expected. No one has the right to be gay. Some one is or isn't gay and you either accept it or not. My social interactions with gay people are 100% the same as with others, there is nothing to teach.

 

[Imari]

My social interactions with gay people are 100% the same as with others, there is nothing to teach.

There's nothing to teach you, you mean. You're aware that not everyone has quite the same approach, right?

There are definitely people out there to who it would be news that gay people should be treated the same as anybody else.

 

[niky]

It's easier to think you're the creep than to accept that all children develop sexual urges.

Unfortunately, with the very restrictive view of society towards children and sex... one which is necessary, given the things that come with it... such as psychological hang-ups, STDs and... well... more children... this is the attitude that's forced on young people with sexual urges.

-

Pedophilia is not something that should be legalized easily or lightly. An adult-child relationship will always feature some form of coercion or violation of rights, simply due to the nature of the relationship between children and adults. Eventually, we, as a society, should start to lose the hang-ups we have about the mere concept of "underage" sex... but it will take a very long time for that to happen.

 

[Omnis]

Sorry to cut in on the current conversation, whatever it is, but I wanted to know what you guys think about the following:

Every time you see a normal couple on TV (I'm talking primarily in commercials) they're just together. Or they're standing around waiting for that cialis to kick in. Every time you see a gay couple, they're proposing or making out or doing some other heinously intimate activity and/or gyration. Like on that new android commercial, did they really have to make the gay guy get down on one knee to propose to his boyfriend? Like, did we really need that scene to ascertain the level of sugar in his tank? What's next? Both knees? I mean, I understand that homosexuality was completely underground (where the sun don't shine) until relatively recently, but come on. Do they really have to foist it on the rest of us? Why can't we just have two gay dudes doing something normal together. Even if they're waiting for the blue pill to kick in, (you can tell who took it by the end of the commercial) could they do something without getting all PG-13? These directors are crazy. See, look at Ellen Degeneres. Ellen is my type of gay. She's completely low key, and she has so much more going for her that her sexuality doesn't even matter. She should be like a gay leader. The Lezident. No, but seriously: I'm tired of all this lovey dovey crap on the little bit of TV that I watch. Doesn't matter whether it's gay or straight. But I do notice that the gay roles almost always play it up. Don't you guys think it's a little ridiculous?

 

[TenEightyOne]

...I'm tired of all this lovey dovey crap on the little bit of TV that I watch. Doesn't matter whether it's gay or straight. But I do notice that the gay roles almost always play it up. Don't you guys think it's a little ridiculous?

Nah, if ya got it, work it.

I guess that while perceptions are changing (and I think they are, overall) it's hard for directors/broadcasters to find a balance that suits everyone. Moderates (such as what we mostly is) are so over positive discrimination that we generally find it irritating.

Some of the super-happy-oh-my-god-we-do-GAY-tv-now examples I've seen have been stomach churningly artificial. But on the other side of the coin... that's TV for you. Why should same-sex couples escape the nauseating treatment of popular direction?

What's next? Both knees?

Haha, it was a great post, but no.

 

[Odnomre]

@Omnis I agree. I've said it in the first few posts that I made in this topic. I think the media is going a bit too far with the "Look! We're acknowledging you now! Please buy our stuff/use our services!" idea. I'm attracted to dudes, but I'm not some feminine, tutu wearing, rainbow flag waving homosexual. I'm normal, and I thought the goal of tolerance and acceptance was to get it to be normal.

 

[Aki Ko]

Why should same-sex couples escape the nauseating treatment of popular direction?

Because for one, it'll increase the hate made by some people just because of it not being tradition. And two, it's already irritating to me for straight people to do that lovey dove rubbish. It doesn't make it any better for gay people to do it. That should be saved for the couple in love in their time, not pushed on TV.

@Omnis I agree. I've said it in the first few posts that I made in this topic. I think the media is going a bit too far with the "Look! We're acknowledging you now! Please buy our stuff/use our services!" idea. I'm attracted to dudes, but I'm not some feminine, tutu wearing, rainbow flag waving homosexual. I'm normal, and I thought the goal of tolerance and acceptance was to get it to be normal.

Basically what he said.
The media just using the LGBT for their gain, not for what the LGBT wants.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Because for one, it'll increase the hate made by some people just because of it not being tradition. And two, it's already irritating to me for straight people to do that lovey dove rubbish. It doesn't make it any better for gay people to do it. That should be saved for the couple in love in their time, not pushed on TV.

Basically what he said.
The media just using the LGBT for their gain, not for what the LGBT wants.

But isn't it true that there are many ad campaigns, dramas etc. that sugar-coat life and shamelessly court customers from all works of life?

I don't think there's a particular issue in the media hijacking super-stupor-positive LGBT stereotypes to sell/entertain that's any greater than issues raised by all the other ridiculous stereotypes that live in advertising-land. It's all equally fatuous and annoying.

The LGBT community should be proud to a person that they have Really Arrived.

 

[Aki Ko]

I don't think there's a particular issue in the media hijacking super-stupor-positive LGBT stereotypes to sell/entertain that's any greater than issues raised by all the other ridiculous stereotypes that live in advertising-land. It's all equally fatuous and annoying.

The LGBT community should be proud to a person that they have Really Arrived.

I don't like that the media uses stereotypes of the LGBT point blank. What results from that is people who haven't met an LGBTetc person to treat them differently because of "what they saw on TV". Super-stipor-positive? Another thing that I dislike. Nobody can't be that positive all the time, especially when the TV stops and reality hits. Some are just unaware of what LGBTetc people deal with and still deal with now. The media is just frankly annoying, hence why I haven't used my cable box in months.

Or maybe I'm just being a bit of a pessimist.

 

[Odnomre]

Or maybe I'm just being a bit of a pessimist.

Want me to get you a rainbow flag so you can truly be gay, Ishi?


Anyway, if they really want to show their "support" for non-traditional couples, why not just have a gay or lesbian couple cuddling on the couch or something? You know, something more normal than a friggin' proposal. I imagine that particular commercial has one of the guys happily bouncing and smiling from excitement, in true feminine fashion?

 

[Aki Ko]

Want me to get you a rainbow flag so you can truly be gay, Ishi?

I will get a big ole metal flag pole waiting for you to wop you upside of the head for doing that

 

[Dan]

I agree that media companies can tone down the flamboyancy. However, Cameron and Mitchell from Modern Family are hilarious, because they make it work (Pun not intended).

Straying a bit off-topic, I feel uncomfortable around anyone engaging P.D.A. It's gross, it's awkward, and no one wants to see it. Get a room. I don't care if you're straight, gay, black, white, or whatever. Don't do it.

 

[Odnomre]

 

[Carlos]

There's nothing to teach you, you mean. You're aware that not everyone has quite the same approach, right?

There are definitely people out there to who it would be news that gay people should be treated the same as anybody else.

They know how they should be treated but they choose not to.

 

[FoolKiller]

Every time you see a normal couple on TV (I'm talking primarily in commercials) they're just together. Or they're standing around waiting for that cialis to kick in. Every time you see a gay couple, they're proposing or making out or doing some other heinously intimate activity and/or gyration.

They want to make sure you notice. Two dudes or chicks sitting around could easily be gay or just a couple of friends hanging out. Media is desperate to dump the image of media not representing homosexuals. They are over compensating.

In short, this is the media version of "Some of my best friends are gay."

 

[Imari]

They know how they should be treated but they choose not to.

That's an awfully big statement to make about everyone in the world.

Are people born knowing how other people should be treated, or is it learned behaviour?

Given that it seems like a fairly common thing for kids to go through the phase where girls and boys each consider the other gender to be disgusting and vile, I think there's reasonable grounds to state that at least some children will treat people who are different to them differently to the way they will treat people who are the same (however those children choose to preceive "different" and "same").

Through no fault of their own, I should add. They're not necessarily being malicious or anything, it's just a natural reaction that some people have.

Maybe some people never grow out of it, and maybe others have it reinforced or impressed on them by their parents or other people around them. But to say that everyone in the whole world knows that gay people should be treated the same as everyone else, and some people are just willfully ignoring that seems like a big call. Particularly when you include in that young people who possibly haven't even actually realised that it's a topic that's worthy of conscious consideration yet. Or even know that such a thing as gay people exist. Or sex, for that matter.

Do you have anything to back up this monstrous generalisation, or is this your own personal opinion?

 

[Carlos]

That's an awfully big statement to make about everyone in the world.

Are people born knowing how other people should be treated, or is it learned behaviour?

Given that it seems like a fairly common thing for kids to go through the phase where girls and boys each consider the other gender to be disgusting and vile, I think there's reasonable grounds to state that at least some children will treat people who are different to them differently to the way they will treat people who are the same (however those children choose to preceive "different" and "same").

Through no fault of their own, I should add. They're not necessarily being malicious or anything, it's just a natural reaction that some people have.

Maybe some people never grow out of it, and maybe others have it reinforced or impressed on them by their parents or other people around them. But to say that everyone in the whole world knows that gay people should be treated the same as everyone else, and some people are just willfully ignoring that seems like a big call. Particularly when you include in that young people who possibly haven't even actually realised that it's a topic that's worthy of conscious consideration yet. Or even know that such a thing as gay people exist. Or sex, for that matter.

Do you have anything to back up this monstrous generalisation, or is this your own personal opinion?

It is very much my own opinion based on my youth and friends. When I think back of school and those things, yes gay people were made fun of but they knew what they were doing. In your example with parents I can fully imagine that but then you are solving the wrong problem. If parents teach their kids gay people don't have equal rights and you are convincing them they have, to me it is just their word against yours. These people should think different, they need to go a few steps back. Maybe if they learn to think for their own they can come with their own truth, whatever the outcome. A person can still decide not to 'accept' different lifestyles.

 

[Scaff]

Oh dear....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...o-tim-cook-comes-out-as-gay-9836630.html?dkdk

...Russian's get a bit mad at Steve Jobs because Tim Cook is gay.

A rather odd over reaction to say the least.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Oh dear....

Whaaaat? That's just... literally incredible.

 

[Odnomre]

Well done, Russia... At this rate they're burning more bridges than the US government does.

 

[FoolKiller]

Remember guys, the law isn't that bad and it's all just a negative media portrayal. The average citizen isn't like this.

 

[Rich S]

“In Russia, gay propaganda and other sexual perversions among minors are prohibited by law,” a statement issued by ZEFS reads. This is actually false, "sexual perversions" I'm assuming ZEFS is referencing gay sex, is legal amongst two minors in Russia I believe? The translation could be off though as it often is.

 

[niky]

Remember guys, the law isn't that bad and it's all just a negative media portrayal. The average citizen isn't like this.

Spit-take... you've broken my sarcasm-meter.

 

[Scaff]

Remember guys, the law isn't that bad and it's all just a negative media portrayal. The average citizen isn't like this.

Looks like we are not the only ones who don't understand it...

“what could he [Cook] bring us? The Ebola virus, Aids, gonorrhea? They all have unseemly ties over there. Ban him for life."
(Source - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...-country-after-coming-out-as-gay-9829670.html)

....its seems that Russian politician Vitaly Milonov doesn't get that its not a bad law and its just the west. And after all what would he know, being one of the people who's local laws formed the basis for the national policy, silly man.

 

[Imari]

There's no AIDS or gonorrhea in Russia? Someone should tell them what they're missing out on!

 

[Scaff]

There's no AIDS or gonorrhea in Russia? Someone should tell them what they're missing out on!

Ironically the levels of gonnorrhea are around the same, but HIV infections are rising at a much higher rate in Russia than in the US, a factor in which many health professionals in Russia are saying is a result of homosexual men not wanting to discuss medical issues for fear of persecution.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14...ies-as-apple-inc-investors-shrug-off-concerns

 

[TenEightyOne]

Ironically the levels of gonnorrhea are around the same, but HIV infections are rising at a much higher rate in Russia than in the US, a factor in which many health professionals in Russia are saying is a result of homosexual men not wanting to discuss medical issues for fear of persecution.

That's very sad. The correlation seems likely in this case too; the "Don't die of ignorance" campaign (somewhere I still have an "ASIDE: Don't Die of Dsylexia" spoof poster from the days before internet memes) was massively important in making high-risk communities aware of HIV and AIDs. Denial is a surer killer than even base ignorance in those cases.