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The Homosexuality Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Duke
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- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Nope. No crying involved, incidentally.
Nope. It's easy to fool the eyes.
Nope.
Yep - that's why I don't believe it.
Nope.
So he changed the pork, tattoos, mixed clothing and selling raped girls to their rapists laws, but didn't change the gay law? Whereabouts did he do this?
You rather seem to have missed the point there...
Just in a different language - which by its very nature changes some tone and meaning.
What about the other English language versions? Are they no different too, even when they're different to each other?
Incidentally you completely missed this while you were busy quoting posts but not reading them:Famine
dylansan
Premium
- 4,987
- Massachusetts
- GTP_dylansan
- MINICOOPER120
It's not a matter of courage, and it's quite presumtuous to assume the reason why I'm not Christian. If I said you just lack the courage to understand science, because you're afraid of learning things which challenge your faith, that would be rather rude, wouldn't it?
Er.. we know what creates the beautiful sunset. It's the spectrum of light from the sun being refracted at different angles through the atmosphere. It is beautiful, and it doesn't require God to be beautiful.
Just like you pretend not to know that evolution is supported by evidence and that science is the best way to understand the workings of the universe? Truly amazing. And you're quite good at pretending.
And by the way I am willing to accept anything given evidence that supports it. You have to agree that is reasonable or else I would be forced to agree with any claims of truth.
Big "if" there. There's no evidence that the universe was created by a deity. Also I have no idea what you mean by "inherent word" if not things he said or was recorded to have said. Are we supposed to just know what Jesus wants because he's so great?
- 759
- South Africa
- GTAS_PEETHAM
Science is great, I love it. It has shown us a lot, but that doesn't mean it knows everything, and can deceive people by putting date stamps on the past, or saying the big bang came from nothing. Again, nothing can't create everything. That's the point and conclusion of evolution. There are hundreds of missing links, and offcourse, we have never never ever seen one species change into another kind. Fittingly the bible says God made them after it's own kind. That my friend is science. It is observed and tested, a thousand times over. That is, seeing is believing.
I'm not pretending not to know about evolution, it's just plain false. Unproven, and unscientific. Show us were one kind of species changes into another, that we don't have to receive by faith. No one can.
You know what makes the sunset beautiful, but you don't know how it got there in the first place, oh sorry you think you do, by coming from nothing.
The bible is evidence that supports creation, yet you again "choose" not to believe it. Simple.
You misunderstood what I was referring to by using the word IF. Jesus did create it all. The Son of Man, yes.
If there was a big bang, someone had to have created it. It couldn't come from nothing.
Scaff
Moderator
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- ScaffUK
Replied in the correct thread.....
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/creation-vs-evolution.51448/
dylansan
Premium
- 4,987
- Massachusetts
- GTP_dylansan
- MINICOOPER120
I don't think that. Stop saying I think that.
The bible is evidence of God like Harry Potter is evidence of wizards. A book is not evidence of reality. It is however insightful in understanding the culture of the people who wrote it.
Okay, prove it.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,476
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Can we please keep the this thread on topic and post God(s) releated stuff here:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/do-you-believe-in-god.111312/
And Creation / Evolution stuff here:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/creation-vs-evolution.51448/
Thanks
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/do-you-believe-in-god.111312/
And Creation / Evolution stuff here:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/creation-vs-evolution.51448/
Thanks
- 19,640
- Alabamamania
You can always count on law-makers to find something to do when no law is needed in the first place. After all, they have to do something to justify their paychecks. It flies in the face of the concepts of "personal responsibility" and "free market", in my opinion.
Granted, it's pretty much your right to discriminate (or to be an ignoramus), with the exception of any business/service run by the government. Since we live in a job market where one can freely enter and exit the market, thus if your beliefs, feelings, ignorance, cowardice, et al, do not align with the way you earn your living...you find another line of work. Most major traditions actually suggest this sort of thing!
The (multi-)national corporations or Big Boxes aren't going to change their policy towards that kind of behavior, they're too big in the public eye. On the other hand, "religion" is just going to be made up to suit the tastes of the individual, which is essentially protected by the Constitution. Anyone can play the "I don't believe I need to do something" card to shirk abeyance of their duties and responsibilities. Or this might just wind up as a lot of huff-and-puff, but nothing really changes for 99.99% of America, because most people keep their mouths shut and let their money and credit do the talking...it's called professionalism.
And that's why we don't need these laws - this isn't really "Religious Freedom" - it's really the framework for a lack of freedom. I'd go as far to say that it's a protectionist racket by the same supporters who don't want any government involvement. By having (nearly) everything becoming privately-owned, this basically means everyone can discriminate at will for any reason. No expectation of goods or service can be demanded, even if meeting all other criteria.
Let each case of "discrimination" be judged on an individual basis, not by a vague blanket law.
Granted, it's pretty much your right to discriminate (or to be an ignoramus), with the exception of any business/service run by the government. Since we live in a job market where one can freely enter and exit the market, thus if your beliefs, feelings, ignorance, cowardice, et al, do not align with the way you earn your living...you find another line of work. Most major traditions actually suggest this sort of thing!
The (multi-)national corporations or Big Boxes aren't going to change their policy towards that kind of behavior, they're too big in the public eye. On the other hand, "religion" is just going to be made up to suit the tastes of the individual, which is essentially protected by the Constitution. Anyone can play the "I don't believe I need to do something" card to shirk abeyance of their duties and responsibilities. Or this might just wind up as a lot of huff-and-puff, but nothing really changes for 99.99% of America, because most people keep their mouths shut and let their money and credit do the talking...it's called professionalism.
And that's why we don't need these laws - this isn't really "Religious Freedom" - it's really the framework for a lack of freedom. I'd go as far to say that it's a protectionist racket by the same supporters who don't want any government involvement. By having (nearly) everything becoming privately-owned, this basically means everyone can discriminate at will for any reason. No expectation of goods or service can be demanded, even if meeting all other criteria.
Let each case of "discrimination" be judged on an individual basis, not by a vague blanket law.
squadops
(Banned)
- 1,987
- United States
The Feds make the law for use on the federal level, it's brought up on a state level so, the states write their own to deal with it. No, the law is not needed but round and round we go.
This will end up happening regardless of how many laws they write over situations of this nature. We see trumpets and fanfare, Jessie Jackson type extortion, talking heads, and ultimately supreme courts in states and country.
I'm with you that we'll lose more liberty out of this, ten more laws likely to follow
_____
As to the religious argument, no need for that specifically because we're dealing with liberty for all. I question how homosexuality and/or homosexuals can inhibit my pursuits, so far I get nothing. I tend to stay away from anyone from any background I feel are harmful to my way of life as anyone should.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
Let a man of science help save your life, while you and your family pray for a good outcome, for one day and you miss out on a lot.
Do you think that a homosexual christian wouldn't be penitent to discover that their natural urges are evil?
I am a Christian who does these things. Can I not expect to go to heaven?
I mean I really love Honeycrisp Apples. Have you tasted bacon?
And the penitent thief is what? A guy who got caught violating one of the 10 Commandments and asked for apology on his death cross. And he earned it because he was penitent.
Do you think that a homosexual christian wouldn't be penitent to discover that their natural urges are evil?
He also said not to shave the sides of your head or clip the edges of your beard or eat shellfish or pork. And no cross breeding of plants or animals in farming or wearing blended fabrics.
I am a Christian who does these things. Can I not expect to go to heaven?
I mean I really love Honeycrisp Apples. Have you tasted bacon?
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I always though Honeycrisp apples were a gift from God.
- 268
- Cambridge
- TPDisney
That first passage, honestly sounds like someone listing as many things as they can that they can so not to "see them" in the afterlife.
I understand that this passage may refer to this, but does that mean that I am an abomination? Am I a disgusting creature in the eyes of God, who is as far as I can remember supposed to be, all knowing and all loving. As a matter of fact I know a number of homosexual christians, who have done more and truly represented christianty for what it is for, then many heterosexual politicians, who are practicing christians and actually have been what can be seen as evil. The most recent example is the Law in Indiana, which i saw this morning (Friday 3rd @ 8:10 GMT) which was there had been amendments to it. I digress... I personally think that region and politics should not mix.
Yes it does say that, it also says that Woman (eve) were made from the rib of a man, how can a woman be made from a bone? and surely to create this, God must have taken the rib out of Adam's body, which must have hurt a heck of a lot. I mean he had his rib torn from his body.. Why would god harm his creation? The bible also says that Eve listened to a talking snake which persuaded her to eat an apple and then be banished from the Garden of Eden.. last time i checked, snakes didn't have the ability to speak let alone vocal cords.
I also want to bring in the Library of Alexandria in to this, a towering monument full of books and scrolls that possessed and inhuman level of knowledge at that time. Built in the time of the ancient greeks there was a huge level of knowledge in that building, ships that came to the city were asked to hand over any scriptures that they had, they were then translated and copied in the library, then the copies were given to the visiting ships and the originals were kept in the library, the level of knowledge in there was similar to what was seen roughly 100-150 years ago, baring in mind this library was around over 2000 years ago. Anyway, there was lots of knowledge on science, medicine, mathematics, culture and so forth. Then Caesar (yes Caesar) came along and burnt the whole thing to the ground during the Roman empire expansion (Thanks d*ck we could be exploring space right now..) anyway this was all before the Bible was created, and I think is an interesting point to bring up.
Okay the HIV/AIDS, back in the 80's when HIV/AIDS started cropping up and becoming a serious issue was when in society, religion had a much larger role, and much more power over much of western society, at this time LGBT people were becoming much more welcomed, slowly, but still making progress, then the HIV/AIDS virus became mainstream news, and was very quickly labeled the "Gay Disease" this is down to the scientific knowledge about the virus being almost minimal. It wasn't until later that it was discovered to be transmitted through bodily fluids (Saliva, Seman, Blood etc) However, more recently, it been documented that HIV/AIDS has been spread more through heterosexual behaviour, as well as through the use of used needles with drugs such as Heroin, which was also highly consumed during the introduction of HIV/AIDS to society. (if something i have said is incorrect please feel free to correct me, I'm writing from my own knowledge) I feel that because of the power that religion had back then, in politics and the media (Fox News) a scapegoat so to speak would be to pin it on the LGBT community, because "It said it in the Bible"
Sweetheart, come to mama, homosexual behaviour has been seen in so many different animals, Lion's have been known to have sex with each other. Spiders will have sex any other they find, on the off chance that it might be a female, it could have sex with 9 male spiders to then have sex with a female the next time thereafter. Ape's who are our closest cousins, have been known to have sex with each other. It's not a strange piece of behaviour. It's been documented in our own history, just look at the ancient greeks and romans. In Ancient Greece, men would have sex with each other frequently, soldiers in the wars would have sex with each other to increase morale among themselves and also ensure there was a close bond to improve their attitude in combat. In ancient Rome, older male romans, would have younger men to have sex with, they were like male prostitutes, that would have travelled with their "master" and please them, and this was very normal behaviour, in these times, the woman's only real purpose sexually was for procreation. It's seen as Male and Female, as that's how biologically it works, its like a couple of puzzle pieces, two male pieces cannot make a child, and two female pieces cannot make a child, however, one male piece and one female piece slot together and can make a baby.
This i agree with, however, you do not need religion to justify the need to do good.
I saw this on twitter, and though that it is interesting that being a christian does not automatically make you a good person.
Well this seems contradictory to the first quote. First Homosexuality is an abomination, then suddenly God created everything and he loves it regardless of what has occurred, if God created everything, then surely he would have created homosexual behaviour as well among animals and humans (which as Famine has said has been documented in over 500 species) to then go and say that its an abomination, goes against the point of him loving all his creations.
*drops mic and sashays off stage in a shower of glitter*
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- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
I saw it in this thread just now and read it quite differently - to my mind, it's saying that the only way to be a good person is to be a Christian. Maybe that's because the only evidence of being a good person in the strip is through prayer, but I may also be somewhat cynical right now because of a recent encounter with a group of devout Christians who felt that it was their place to try and recruit me, even after I had made it clear that I wanted no part. Faith is an intensely personal subject, and so I find total strangers trying to discuss it with me to be very disturbing and highly inappropriate.
- 11,638
- Intercourse, PA
- Carbonox
I can't help but see that comic as a jab at people who think they can get away with anything by being a good Christian and praying, every single time.
- 268
- Cambridge
- TPDisney
I can see where you're coming from with the picture, But the way i see it is showing that this woman is christian, (with the little cross around her neck) but you can see she's shouting at her maid, thinking badly about the homeless man, gossiping and speaking badly about the woman passing by, with her friend doing the same, and so forth, however attending church and praying does not make you a good person, and that by being christian it shouldn't just make you serperate from everyone else, because you happen to go to church, to be the good in the world you don't have to use religion as a medium to achieve it.
And yes, someone's faith is highly personal, a friend of mine started practising Bhudism, and people kept berating him with questions and their opinions, because he was a while male, and not someone of asian decent who would be seen more likely to practise it then not, ten years on and he still practices it and he's a very happy individual
- 759
- South Africa
- GTAS_PEETHAM
Hmm, heard of false christians, the falling away and the apostasy in the churches before the end times?
Anyone can say they are a christian, by their own standards? Perhaps you could use these verses. Trust you also enjoyed service today...
After Jesus called the crowd to Him, He said to them, "Hear and understand. 11"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." 12Then the disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?"…
I just so love that last part about being offended....
If a true Christian believes in Christ, he would have done so, because he should understand the importance:
3Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" 5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.…That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.…
Oh how I see so many intellegent blokes like Nicodemus today. A christian like you would understand that Jesus changed the law. You would know exactly what Jesus is talking about in the above verse.
Like I said in my very first post here, "I understand people believe want to believe what they must, or need to, so if they want to be homosexual, it's their perfectly good free will and lust of the flesh. No one will take that away from them, unless they want to give it up. Jesus forced no one. You don't have to believe the bible, or the God of the bible, and you can follow man as you please.
Reminder, the old testament was the law brought to the Israelites, while under that law. Look to the Messiah brother. He makes it very clear here, if you believe Him:
Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?" 6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."…
Do all road lead to California? NO
Do all roads lead to God? No, at least not if you follow the Saviours promise. Peace my born again brother.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
This, I think, is the point where religion becomes dangerous. Faith as a concept is fine, but when it starts to morph into conviction, trouble starts brewing. It's one thing to believe in a higher power, but it's another thing entirely to believe that you are right for no other reason than because your faith tells you that you are.
- 759
- South Africa
- GTAS_PEETHAM
I can see where you're coming from with the picture, But the way i see it is showing that this woman is christian, (with the little cross around her neck) but you can see she's shouting at her maid, thinking badly about the homeless man, gossiping and speaking badly about the woman passing by, with her friend doing the same, and so forth, however attending church and praying does not make you a good person, and that by being christian it shouldn't just make you serperate from everyone else, because you happen to go to church, to be the good in the world you don't have to use religion as a medium to achieve it.
And yes, someone's faith is highly personal, a friend of mine started practising Bhudism, and people kept berating him with questions and their opinions, because he was a while male, and not someone of asian decent who would be seen more likely to practise it then not, ten years on and he still practices it and he's a very happy individual
Yes you are right. Going to church every Sunday doesn't make a person a good Christian. Infact, people could be going to church on a Sunday for years yet still never understand what it is to actually know God, rather then try to understand His word. When a person gives their hear to the Lord, they change. They feel the conviction. They weep because they realise that no matter what wrong they did, Jesus still loved them through those times?
I believe that you cannot worship God on a Sunday only, especially this day and age, because for the other 6 days of the week, you can be really far from God. I was a culprit of this, yet I thought I still was in a good space. By a persons own standards, it will be okay, but by Gods standards, a lot more is required. Yes no one is perfect including myself, as we are bound to make mistakes, but we don't have to make them again and again.
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- Adelaide
- Neomone
I trust people who think that they're right just because they feel that they have to be right about as far as I can throw them.
Heuristics are dangerous things.
If you can't explain your chain of logic, let alone your actual reasoning, to an objective third party without resorting to fallacies, then you're not off to a good start.
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