The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[squadops]

I know all that, and if you read all I've posted recently you would see that I could only handle 1.5 years of it. You would also see that I appreciated the means at my disposal 👍

We disagree a little bit, but not nearly as much as I disagree with others in this thread.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-24/bradley-marxism-and-safe-schools/7272764

 

[squadops]

Nice link 👍

I found a bunch more than this, but it stuck out so I will post it. neo-anything is a very modern form of insult. To be quite true, I am conservative for instance but no one seems to know what the word actually means.

I'm not a neocon

 

[Johnnypenso]

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/201...-to-draft-michael-sam-to-placate-lgbt-groups/

The source is a tweet from Howard Balzer, who has 40 years under his belt covering the NFL.

Openly gay football player Michael Sam might never have been drafted if not for the league crafting a deal with the St. Louis Rams to pick him in the seventh round of the 2014 NFL draft. Sam won SEC Co-Defensive Player of the Year in 2013 for the Missouri Tigers and was projected as a late-round pick, but on the final draft day it appeared that he would not be selected. Yahoo sports reports that the NFL, fearing negative blow back from LGBT groups, orchestrated a deal with the Rams that if they drafted Sam, they would not have to appear on the scrutinizing summer HBO series, Hard Knocks.

At the time I remember talking with my friends that are also football fans and like me they all wondered why Sam was drafted to begin with. His combine was terrible and he really failed in the all important categories of size and strength. Too small for a lineman and I think he finished last or second last in the bench press which is a huge thing for linemen.

Of course the NFL will deny it up and down and will never admit there was any "deal", so we'll never know for sure if this was the case unless Balzer or someone else can get their hands on tangible evidence, but it does make his being drafted make a lot more sense.

Even Michael Sam isn't surprised by this revelation.

 

[PureAlpha1206]

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/201...-to-draft-michael-sam-to-placate-lgbt-groups/

The source is a tweet from Howard Balzer, who has 40 years under his belt covering the NFL.



At the time I remember talking with my friends that are also football fans and like me they all wondered why Sam was drafted to begin with. His combine was terrible and he really failed in the all important categories of size and strength. Too small for a lineman and I think he finished last or second last in the bench press which is a huge thing for linemen.

Of course the NFL will deny it up and down and will never admit there was any "deal", so we'll never know for sure if this was the case unless Balzer or someone else can get their hands on tangible evidence, but it does make his being drafted make a lot more sense.

Even Michael Sam isn't surprised by this revelation.

I'm not particularly surprised either. In the end the NFL is still a business and highly political just like most anything else. In all honesty, they probably DID need to do something in order to avoid serious backlash and the possibility of losing paying customers and fans.

 

[A2K78]

On the issue of RFRA laws what people fail to recognize is the fact that these types of laws have absolutely nothing do with discrimination(as the so-called enlightened left claims) but a natural response to the long disregard of free association and most importantly private property.

That said maybe if the government on all levels get out people lives and respect both free association and private property then unnecessary laws like this wouldn't need to exist.

 

[FoolKiller]

On the issue of RFRA laws what people fail to recognize is the fact that these types of laws have absolutely nothing do with discrimination(as the so-called enlightened left claims) but a natural response to the long disregard of free association and most importantly private property.

While you are correct, that the free association issue is at the heart of matters, I am not so sure that was the motivation behind these laws. I think it's a case of them wanting that protection for this specific issue.

 

[A2K78]

While you are correct, that the free association issue is at the heart of matters, I am not so sure that was the motivation behind these laws. I think it's a case of them wanting that protection for this specific issue.

Personally speaking I'm glad for this issue because it makes for the opportunity to bring the idea of propery rights back into the conversation, something Americans have largely been ignorant about.


On another note, the boycotts by certain celebrities over these types of laws make no econonic sense whatsoever. Why? The boycotts aren't hurting said states but rather hitting these boycotters in the pocket in the form lost revenue e.g. Springsteen's stupid boycott will only backfire on him in the form of lost ticket sales.

 

[Tornado]

Bruce probably isn't hurting for money.

 

[squadops]

the opportunity to bring the idea of property rights back into the conversation

Oops, now I've brought that back up in the POTUS thread lol.

I think there is nothing wrong with the laws, I just wish they were not necessary.

Bruce probably isn't hurting for money.

he's not, but those types do get old to see imo, the likes of Bono comes to mind.

 

[Tornado]

he's not, but those types do get old to see imo, the likes of Bono comes to mind.

Don't get me wrong. Certainly there is a limited market for, say, the Vanilla Ice comeback special, so he couldn't really afford to boycott his date at the local 7-11 parking lot. And Bono wailing about anything political is already infuriating enough.


But Bruce? Bruce is going to continue to sell out arenas for every stop of his current international tour regardless of if he skips a concert here and there in North Carolina or Michigan. No backfiring will occur for Bruce expressing his political beliefs (and because Bruce is Bruce, this could very well make him more popular to the people who already liked Bruce), and Bruce still seems to be adding dates to his tour anyway so he could easily make up for any shows he cancels.

 

[A2K78]

Springsteen can have whatever political/social views he want, however there is no evidence that a boycott will hurt the state other than the fact said boycott only hurts him in the form of missed ticket sales/revenue.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Personally speaking I'm glad for this issue because it makes for the opportunity to bring the idea of propery rights back into the conversation, something Americans have largely been ignorant about.


On another note, the boycotts by certain celebrities over these types of laws make no econonic sense whatsoever. Why? The boycotts aren't hurting said states but rather hitting these boycotters in the pocket in the form lost revenue e.g. Springsteen's stupid boycott will only backfire on him in the form of lost ticket sales.

Debatable but even if it's true they will lose money overall it only serves to drive home how important this issue is to them. IMO though, I think the cause would have much better served to hold the concert and use the media attention to make a political statement and then donate the proceeds to a relevant charity.

 

[Dennisch]

Thought this was quite a point.

 

[Tornado]

Springsteen can have whatever political/social views he want, however there is no evidence that a boycott will hurt the state other than the fact said boycott only hurts him in the form of missed ticket sales/revenue.

I'm aware you have difficulty with the whole "debate" thing in general, so I'll once again assure you that I doubt Bruce's financial planner is particularly worried about Bruce skipping one concert in his 30+ 65 venue international arena tour that is still finalizing tour dates; nor do I think a famously political artist like Bruce is as concerned about the "economic sense" that you think drive's everyone's actions.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Cirque du Solei has jumped on the bandwagon and cancelled an upcoming date in NC. Wonder if they'll be consistent then and cancel upcoming dates in the UAE? Any guesses?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Thought this was quite a point.

Not really, it turned out he'd never played there.

 

[Joel]

Springsteen can have whatever political/social views he want, however there is no evidence that a boycott will hurt the state other than the fact said boycott only hurts him in the form of missed ticket sales/revenue.

Maybe there's more to the decision than revenue. Maybe some people make decisions for reasons that aren't economic. I doubt Bruce Springsteen lays awake at night worrying about the money from one show in Greensboro, NC.

Thought this was quite a point.

Eh. I don't really think it's a gotcha. I think it's perfectly reasonable that American or Canadian (Cirque du Soleil) would think they can make more of a difference in a US state than the UAE. I also don't believe for a second he wouldn't have called it hypocritical if those entertainers just played the shows anyway and made a statement about the law instead. He'd be calling Springsteen a hypocrite for taking the money but protesting the law.

You could make the exact same statement about that tweet. His profile says he's a libertarian that rejects "cultural marxism" (Uhhh....) yet he's there posting on twitter which supports tons of things he'd disagree with and view as "cultural marxism". Of course it isn't hypocritical to use a popular forum for expression like Twitter to express yourself, just like it isn't hypocritical for an entertainer to use their status as a public figure to express themselves.

This stuff isn't easy. I'm sitting here typing this on a laptop made in China, drinking tea that was probably grown in China or India, and eating chocolate made with beans likely grown in poor regions of west Africa. That doesn't mean everything I say or believe in is meaningless.

Cirque du Solei has jumped on the bandwagon and cancelled an upcoming date in NC. Wonder if they'll be consistent then and cancel upcoming dates in the UAE? Any guesses?

I found a planned show for September but I can't find it anywhere on their website and there's nowhere to buy tickets right now. I'm not sure if they just aren't released yet but their only shows listed on their website for Asia/ME are in Japan. I mean if you're looking for a "gotcha" they have shows planned in Russia.

 

[Dennisch]

Not really, it turned out he'd never played there.

From his website.

Middle East part of his Bare Bones tour.

@Noob616

I completely agree with your post.

 

[Tornado]

Now, now, the Canadian government has apologized for Bryan Adams on several occasions.

 

[TenEightyOne]

From his website.

Middle East part of his Bare Bones tour.

@Noob616

I completely agree with your post.

Ah, I was talking about Springsteen - hadn't even noticed that Bryan Adams was mentioned too

 

[Dennisch]

Now, now, the Canadian government has apologized for Bryan Adams on several occasions.

And yet, they sold Bieber to the world.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I found a planned show for September but I can't find it anywhere on their website and there's nowhere to buy tickets right now. I'm not sure if they just aren't released yet but their only shows listed on their website for Asia/ME are in Japan. I mean if you're looking for a "gotcha" they have shows planned in Russia.

Not looking for a gotcha just consistency. If you believe something you believe it and stand up for it no matter what. Or you can pay lipservice to the cause to make sure you get your name on all the proper bandwagons.

 

[Johnnypenso]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/asia/philippines-transgender-geraldine-roman/index.html

Voters have made history in thePhilippines, electing their first ever transgender politician to the House of Representatives.

Liberal Party candidate Geraldine Roman trounced her closest rival in the congressional district of Bataan, winning 62% of the unofficial vote count with 99% of precincts reporting.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/09/living/methodist-clergy-lgbt/index.html

Dozens of United Methodist clergy members came out as lesbian, gay or bisexual on Monday, defying their church's ban on "self-avowed practicing homosexuals" serving in ministry and essentially daring their supervisors to discipline them. In a public letter posted online, 111 pastors, deacons, elders and candidates for ministry said church rules require "that we not bring our full selves to ministry, that we hide from view our sexual orientations and gender identities."

"While some of us have been lucky to serve in places where we could serve honestly and openly, there are others in places far more hostile, who continue to serve faithfully even at tremendous cost to themselves, their families, and yes, even the communities they serve, who do not receive the fullness of their pastor's gifts because a core part must remain hidden," the letter continues. The self-outing came one day before the United Methodist Church, one of the nation's largest Protestant denominations, convenes its quadrennial General Conference in Portland, Oregon.

 

[Johnnypenso]

At Alaska state track meet, a transgender athlete makes her mark

Nattaphon “Ice” Wangyot, a male-t0-female transgender athlete became the first trans student to compete for a high school state championship last week. Wangyot, a senior at Haines High School in Alaska, beat a number of biologically female competitors to the finals at the state Track & Field meet in Anchorage. But her presence at the race was met with some criticism from her fellow runners. "… Allowing students to play on teams of the opposite sex disproportionately impacts female students, who will lose spots on a track, soccer and volleyball teams to male students who identify as female."

Wangyot posted the third-fastest time in the 200 preliminaries and the fifth-fastest time in the 100 preliminaries. The top eight runners advanced to Saturday's finals.

 

[Dan]

I'm not sure how I stand on transgender athletes competing with the gender they identify with. As an example, in wrestling, there is potential for MtF competitors seriously injuring female wrestlers because men are physically stronger than women. I want transgender people to be included, but I don't think it would be fair for them to have a biological advantage over their competitors.

 

[dylansan]

Yeah, there's no easy solution to that one. Though it's always kind of bothered me how many sports are so dependent on factors unrelated to the amount of effort put into training. Even among the same gender, some are going to have an advantage over others, which makes competing somewhat arbitrary.

 

[Exorcet]

I'm not sure how I stand on transgender athletes competing with the gender they identify with. As an example, in wrestling, there is potential for MtF competitors seriously injuring female wrestlers because men are physically stronger than women. I want transgender people to be included, but I don't think it would be fair for them to have a biological advantage over their competitors.

While the gender separation is present for a reason, it doesn't need to be universal. Different leagues of a sport can handle this differently if desired. If it doesn't work, the mixed leagues will just die out I suppose.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yeah, there's no easy solution to that one. Though it's always kind of bothered me how many sports are so dependent on factors unrelated to the amount of effort put into training. Even among the same gender, some are going to have an advantage over others, which makes competing somewhat arbitrary.

There is an easy solution. Don't allow transgender male > female to compete with female athletes. It's only political correctness that makes us even question what to me is a common sense of that way of thinking.

 

[Exorcet]

There is an easy solution. Don't allow transgender male > female to compete with female athletes. It's only political correctness that makes us even question what to me is a common sense of that way of thinking.

I think convenience and tradition has a lot to do with it though. Men are stronger than women, but only statistically. The most physically fit women would beat 99% of men at their given sport or focus. There is no reason not to expect women to be competitive, but there is reason to expect less women to reach the very top levels of competition than men.

The transgender side of the issue comes down to acknowledging that technology is currently limited, and equal rights doesn't allow that to be ignored. I can see separating transgender individuals in a gender segregated competition because of that.