The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[Touring Mars]

Excellent news series on BBC started this evening, called "The Making of Me", and each week a celebrity tries to find out what made them who/what they are. This week's celeb was Torchwood actor, John Barrowman, who is openly gay and has been trying to find out the reasons behind his own homosexuality.

It was an excellent programme because it illustrated the fact that there are likely many influencing factors, including biological factors such as the testosterone levels in the womb (the number of male siblings conceived prior to the affected individual is possibly a significant factor, for example...). It also illustrated the desire for some gay people to be able to reply to those who openly criticise and even demonise gay people for "choosing" homosexuality. It was clear from this film, for example, that John Barrowman would feel an immense feeling of relief to be able to say for definite that there are real biological reasons behind his homosexuality, rather than the commonly held views that either he or his parents are worthy of something akin to "blame" for his sexual orientation.

On a side note, I was stunned to realise that John Barrowman is infact Scottish and speaks with a broad Glaswegian accent when at home, but uses his learned US accent the rest of the time!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7523567.stm

 

[Sage]

You didn’t know he was Scottish? I’ve heard his accent before (same with Tennant’s) – it’s so weird hearing him speak like that!

 

[TheCracker]

On a side note, I was stunned to realise that John Barrowman is infact Scottish and speaks with a broad Glaswegian accent when at home, but uses his learned US accent the rest of the time!!!

I thought that was a bit odd too. His parents have obviously lived in the States for a long time, 30+ years i'd guess, but still have thick Glaswegian accents. John Barrowman usually speaks with a slightly anglocized(sp?) American accent. But when with his parents he sounds like he's putting on a Glaswegian accent. I know a lot of people who have spent time in another country or region where the accent is different to theirs can pick-up a bit of a twang, and often revert back to it when speaking to friends who still have this accent. But he had a really thick accent not just a slight twang. It seemed really false to me, almost as if he was taking the piss out of his parents.

It was a really interesting program though 👍

Ok, own up, who has older brothers then?

 

[Sniffs]

sorry. only child, here

you're making me miss my ex, guys Too bad I got dumped in Dungaevel instead of getting to enjoy the sights. bloody immigration...

people can get accents from the reigon they've been in for a long time. one of my step sisters, after fifteen years or so in georgia, has finally picked up the Southern "flute".

if I put it on (an accent), it sounds like I should have been hanging around with John Lennon!

 

[Denur]

It was a really interesting program though 👍

Ok, own up, who has older brothers then?

I've got an older brother!
💡

 

[NFSMW]

This is my opinion on homomsexuals. Although it may be weird, and it may well be a crime against Gods creation of nature, if there is such thing, I see nothing wrong with it. They are not troubling anyone esle except themselves and other people who choose to get involved. I have a freind who says all homosexuals should get the death sentence, and to be perfectly honest, I want to give him the death sentence, though everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Why are people so scared of homosexuals? They are actually very freindly people, and if you ever try talking to them, you will find out that, just like you, they are human, and they too have a life to live. Homosexuality is not contagious, and you are not going to become a homosexual if you dont take the piss out of them and beat them up as much as possible. Like Der Alta said in post 11 of this thread, homosexuals are not evil, and they are not diseased, so please, just give this some thought!

 

[Sniffs]

NFSMW: they're scared of us for the same reason they're scared of someone's melanin content. ingrained predator's Xenophobia. humans are still animals, and we tend to keep forgetting that.

 

[NFSMW]

NFSMW: they're scared of us for the same reason they're scared of someone's melanin content. ingrained predator's Xenophobia. humans are still animals, and we tend to keep forgetting that.

Can you explain that in a simpler sentence, because I am not at all familar with the phrases "someone's melanin content" and "ingrained predator's Xenophobia"!

 

[buickgnx88]

Well melanin content refers to skin color.

 

[Famine]

He means we fear what we don't understand and we instinctively attack what we fear.

 

[DKX]

I don't have a problem with a persons sexuality, race, religion or anything what so ever. It's their lifestyle and who am I to question that? A couple of my friends are gay, do I care? Not one bit. That's their lifestyle and I don't see a problem with it.

 

[mindwise]

Originally posted by rjensen11
I've never seen a queer animal, and I'll be damned if I ever do.

Not seen much then eh? well, keep your eyes closed since nature is full of it, or be damned

"Homosexuality has been observed in more than 1,500 species, and the phenomenon has been well described for 500 of them," said Petter Bockman, project coordinator of the exhibition.

 

[Sureboss]

"The phenomenon has been well described for 500 of them"

I'm sorry, I had no idea that customer feedback existed on types of sexual relationships within the animal kingdom.

 

[Danny]

"The phenomenon has been well described for 500 of them"

I'm sorry, I had no idea that customer feedback existed on types of sexual relationships within the animal kingdom.

Oh yeah, absolutely. For the other 1000, it just wasn't described accurately enough, far too vague.

Scientists had been describing those 1000 as "well uh... that male animal seems to be uh... doing that other male animal. And oh, those females are doing it too, it appears. But how will she... Oh my word"

But for the other 500 they just used the term homosexual.

 

[homeforsummer]

This thread appears to be one I've missed in the depths of the forums. Having voted "nobody's business but the people involved" I was disturbed to see that so far 12 people, whilst an admittedly small proportion of overall voters, actually consider homosexuality a "problem" that "needs to be cured". I can say with some confidence that the people who voted this way have a problem themselves and the world would probably be a better place if they were cured of it.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the sort of attitude expressed by those 12 voters is no different from out-and-out racism or sexism in my view. To be honest, the 20 who voted that it's a sin against God or nature are cutting close to the line of reason. It also highlights for me one of the major problems about religion in general, which is pretty shocking intolerance clothed in a veil of preaching tolerance.

Homosexuality is absolutely nobodies business but those involved. I know guys who appear to be homophobic for no other reason than because they think that a gay man will "fancy them", which is especially rich when a lot of the time even girls wouldn't look twice at them. In particular, one of my girlfriend's gay friends is scared to come out to his two best mates who he's known for years, because both are pretty homophobic. It's a sad state of affairs.

 

[Sniffs]

so, someone poked the homophobia thread awake, eh?

weird, that it wasn't poked awake after the prop 8 debacle.

homeforsummer: of course people think it's a problem, the same way they think that "races" are supposedly inferior. and that doesn't just apply to persons of European descent. even Native Americans will be homophobic. Famine put it absolutely best.

unfortunatly a lot of the GLTB community is reacting in the exact same way that minorities react, they wanna get all medieval on peoples hineys...and that means they wanna break a few bones, and not something kinky. i consider it hypocritic when the gay bashers happen to be ethnic. it's the pot calling the kettle African descent

some of it has to do with religon as well. a person's faith, especially if they're really into it, determines their morals. i'll go no further to prevent flames.

 

[homeforsummer]

homeforsummer: of course people think it's a problem, the same way they think that "races" are supposedly inferior. and that doesn't just apply to persons of European descent. even Native Americans will be homophobic. Famine put it absolutely best.

I know that anyone can be homophobic. I was just a little surprised to see that even a small percentage of people on this site had such strong views on the subject. It makes you wonder how many might be out and out racist, or dyed-in-the-wool sexists etc.

 

[1X83Z]

This thread appears to be one I've missed in the depths of the forums. Having voted "nobody's business but the people involved" I was disturbed to see that so far 12 people, whilst an admittedly small proportion of overall voters, actually consider homosexuality a "problem" that "needs to be cured".

You know, I gotta say I think I was one of those 12. But then in a different poll asking if anyone on GTP was gay, I voted that I was. Sometimes I like to have fun with forum polls.

 

[Sniffs]

I know that anyone can be homophobic. I was just a little surprised to see that even a small percentage of people on this site had such strong views on the subject. It makes you wonder how many might be out and out racist, or dyed-in-the-wool sexists etc.

yup. and I bet the majority of them were Americans. remember how the colonies got started over here? religious expats (well, the ENGLISH colonies, anyway). this is why some of us wouldn't mind...Emigrating. unfortunately, the "EWWWWWWWW, YANKS" attitude is still in place, and so is the US's "ye furriners" attitude

 

[Pupik]

I know that anyone can be homophobic. I was just a little surprised to see that even a small percentage of people on this site had such strong views on the subject. It makes you wonder how many might be out and out racist, or dyed-in-the-wool sexists etc.

Slightly off-topic: Forum Polls at GTP are more-or-less anonymous; people can drop in their viewpoint without actually saying anything. Some poll results are viewable, meaning that others can see who voted for what, and others are closed off.

As an example: U.S. Presidential Election. Barack Obama supporters were definitely not three-to-one in terms of conversation, nor the actual vote. But people who did not have a lot to say would obviously pop in with a vote, and leave the thread (or at least, treat it as read-only). This is quite obvious when Dan Gurney received one vote, but no comment was made in that thread.

People can also vote to bring up a to give out a strong feeling which may give them censure in return, or to just be a "fly in the ointment"; this way they do not have to back it up or even express how they feel, since that may require making an argument, and having to debate and support it. It's easier to just fly by, for some people.

There are lots of threads which do not need polls at all, since there is no definitive answer, or not one that can be easily described to fit a poll. To be honest, that's why I do not use polls, unless there exists a simple subset of possible answers to choose from, with no gray area in choice.

 

[TheCracker]

As an example: U.S. Presidential Election. Barack Obama supporters were definitely not three-to-one in terms of conversation, nor the actual vote. But people who did not have a lot to say would obviously pop in with a vote, and leave the thread (or at least, treat it as read-only).

Although if you look at the thread conversation, it was the same handful of non-Obama supporters who were making a large proportion of the posts in that thread. The balance of the thread may have been 50:50, but one half of the argument came from a very vocal few.

 

[homeforsummer]

But people who did not have a lot to say would obviously pop in with a vote, and leave the thread (or at least, treat it as read-only). This is quite obvious when Dan Gurney received one vote, but no comment was made in that thread.

People can also vote to bring up a to give out a strong feeling which may give them censure in return, or to just be a "fly in the ointment"; this way they do not have to back it up or even express how they feel, since that may require making an argument, and having to debate and support it. It's easier to just fly by, for some people.

Cheers for reminding me, though it is a concept I'm aware of. The same thing happened in the "GTP car of the year" type threads that YSSMAN organised, quite often the comments didn't follow the same pattern as the votes.

In the case of this thread, it just means they're cowards as well as bigots.

 

[Duke]

You know, I gotta say I think I was one of those 12. But then in a different poll asking if anyone on GTP was gay, I voted that I was. Sometimes I like to have fun with forum polls.

Which is why your Credibility Rating gusts around anywhere from 5% to about 60%.

 

[Zrow]

It's a shame there weren't more of those people here to vote and discuss - would sure make this thread more interesting.

 

[Joey D]

yup. and I bet the majority of them were Americans. remember how the colonies got started over here? religious expats (well, the ENGLISH colonies, anyway). this is why some of us wouldn't mind...Emigrating. unfortunately, the "EWWWWWWWW, YANKS" attitude is still in place, and so is the US's "ye furriners" attitude

You haven't travelled abroad very much have you? In my travels to Europe I have never experiences the "ewwww yanks" attitude. Most Europeans like Americans because we come to their country and spend a bunch of money. Sure they think our government is backwards, that we are all fat, and that we live a rather peculiar way of life but they by no means dislike us.

And what makes you say homophobes are American? There are several very religious countries in Europe as shown in the follow two examples:

Exhibit 1, Europeans (as well as Russians and Turks) who say there is a god.

Exhibit 2, European (as well as Russia and Turkey's) main belief.

As far as I know most Christians and Muslims do not agree with homosexuality.

 

[homeforsummer]

You haven't travelled abroad very much have you? In my travels to Europe I have never experiences the "ewwww yanks" attitude. Most Europeans like Americans because we come to their country and spend a bunch of money. Sure they think our government is backwards, that we are all fat, and that we live a rather peculiar way of life but they by no means dislike us.

I do think the "everyone hates America" concept is a bit wide of the mark. I think the trouble is how Americans are protrayed in the media. If you watch a news report and they interview a random off the street, they always seem to pick the village idiot, or someone with a horrifically annoying voice, that almost sounds like it's being put on for the cameras.

In contrast, there wasn't a single state I visited last summer where I didn't meet someone talkative, friendly and generally with a reasonable degree of intelligence. I know "randoms you meet on a road trip" isn't exactly an accurate cross-section of society, but it sure laid a few stereotypes to rest.

And what makes you say homophobes are American?

Teh internetz is responsible for this one. Any quick look at a youtube comments list will reveal a shocking degree of racism and homophobia, even if it's just used as general insults. I think overuse of a certain word beginning with "f" and rhyming with "maggot" in the States doesn't help the homophobic reputation. It's a rather derogatory term, no better than the "n" word rhyming with "bigger".

There are several very religious countries in Europe as shown in the follow two examples:

As far as I know most Christians and Muslims do not agree with homosexuality.

It'd be unfair to tar all religious people with the same brush though. I suspect it does depend on how devoutly religious you are, but I'd be surprised if anyone who happened to be gay in any of those countries that seem to have a strong belief in God wasn't a believer themselves. The law of averages would suggest that there are plenty of religious homosexuals.

And the muslim view is a little more than "disagreement". It's basically illegal in most muslim countries.

 

[Sureboss]

Oh, the Christian's would make it illegal if they could.

 

[Sniffs]

Joey D: course I haven't traveled. i got thrown out of the UK the first time I showed up. most of my money went to the ticket, and I was gonna wait to convert to quid till I got there. I didn't find out untill last year that everything's supposed to be done WAY ahead of time. I THINK they had a restriction that states you have to bring so much nicker WITH you.

I got most of my opinions from what my freinds overseas have told me the general attitude THEY see from the locals about Yanks. I have enough freinds that I'm pretty sure.

I also know to keep my mouth shut. unlike a lot of the young bucks, I've been thoroughly bible bashed. we have the really WACKY branches up here...the kind that tote shotguns around (of course, these are the same kind of idiots that use the N word on a regular basis, and play up their redneckisim)

also, I'd like to know why YOU think that we're all godless heathens (the impression your giving me)! for pete sake, i was thoroughly churchy when little, part of the AWANAS (think super christian Boy-Scouts), and was and am thoroughly proud when one of my former catholic bosses and my very old-protestant crews brag about their kids. heck, I lost my last mate to a catholic polish descent man!

I worry more about extremists in the three brothers (as I call Judaisim, Christianity, and Islam)...and wonder if I'm the only one in my own age bracket.

Home: that's because of the accent. girls LURVE a british accent because of british stereotypes. also, because non-american guys are precieved to actually have a brain in their head, and not just another giant set of balls

i know this is all sounding like a giant pile of generalizations, but that seems to be the only thing Americans go by! thanks to a certian set of dingalings, most americans are afraid to leave the country, I think. throw in the net , america's general tendancy to assimilate cultures, our relative youth compared to the rest of the world, and the ultimate spoilage provided by abundant starting rescoursces and ROOM...

 

[Danny]

because non-american guys are precieved to actually have a brain in their head

I freakin' wish.

 

[Joey D]

I do think the "everyone hates America" concept is a bit wide of the mark. I think the trouble is how Americans are protrayed in the media. If you watch a news report and they interview a random off the street, they always seem to pick the village idiot, or someone with a horrifically annoying voice, that almost sounds like it's being put on for the cameras.

That's anywhere, any time we get a new report here from somewhere else it's the village idiot to. Want a story on Iraq? Interview the extremist. Media, no matter where it is, is always going to have a biased towards entertainment.

In contrast, there wasn't a single state I visited last summer where I didn't meet someone talkative, friendly and generally with a reasonable degree of intelligence. I know "randoms you meet on a road trip" isn't exactly an accurate cross-section of society, but it sure laid a few stereotypes to rest.

Same thing happened when I was in the UK, I've always been told the British can't cook, are rude, and unfriendly. Not only did I enjoy the food but I found a ton of friendly people I am still in contact with today. German stereotypes hold pretty true though, but I still managed to meet some friendly ones.

It'd be unfair to tar all religious people with the same brush though. I suspect it does depend on how devoutly religious you are, but I'd be surprised if anyone who happened to be gay in any of those countries that seem to have a strong belief in God wasn't a believer themselves. The law of averages would suggest that there are plenty of religious homosexuals

Oh I realise that, that's why I put "most" Christian and Muslims. If you are a follower you are probably going to be against homosexuality.

Joey D: course I haven't traveled. i got thrown out of the UK the first time I showed up. most of my money went to the ticket, and I was gonna wait to convert to quid till I got there. I didn't find out untill last year that everything's supposed to be done WAY ahead of time. I THINK they had a restriction that states you have to bring so much nicker WITH you.

No country is going to let you in broke, although I landed at London-Gatwick with £100, but I was able to show them I had $6,000 in reserve in the bank which equated to about £3,000.

I got most of my opinions from what my freinds overseas have told me the general attitude THEY see from the locals about Yanks. I have enough freinds that I'm pretty sure.

Then they all must of had bad experiences or gone to different countries then I. The Brits loved us Americans, the Spanish were friendly towards me even though my Spanish sucks, the German were rather neutral, the Swiss the same, the French were hit or miss on who you found to like you and the Dutch loved us as well. Sure there are always going to be xenophobes but I think most Europeans are pretty accepting of American.

also, I'd like to know why YOU think that we're all godless heathens (the impression your giving me)! for pete sake, i was thoroughly churchy when little, part of the AWANAS (think super christian Boy-Scouts), and was and am thoroughly proud when one of my former catholic bosses and my very old-protestant crews brag about their kids. heck, I lost my last mate to a catholic polish descent man!

How did you get that out of what I wrote? I said most Christians and Muslims are against homosexuality, which is accurate. I did not at one point suggest homosexuals can not be religious.

that's because of the accent. girls LURVE a british accent because of british stereotypes. also, because non-american guys are precieved to actually have a brain in their head, and not just another giant set of balls

Girls love accents period. I won't get into it but while in the UK my American accent sure helped in the female department.