The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[arvore]

. I'm sorry non Christians hate us so much and think all sorts of bad things about us.

No one is hating You here, we're just disagreeing with Your position regarding others sexuality, because it collides with their freedom of choice, can't You really understand that or are You just trying to victimise Yourself?

I'm sorry you guys don't understand the bible but you can't without the holy spirit.

I'm sure most of us here can understand it so well as You!
Some of us just don't believe it blindly, others may have a different interpretation of what it says and others, like me, just take it for what it really is a bunch of books written 2000 Years ago, by men like me and You, in a specific social context that for Historic reasons was collected and presented through out generations as God's word.

Also Satan hates God so he will try to deceive people saved and not. He will try to blind some and lie etc.

Man, I'm trying hard not to mock You and have a rational discussion, but c'mon do You really believe that?!

God sees sex as awesome and perfect. Between a married man and woman. He gave us sex.

So did he to gay persons, if You really believe it.

But we should go about sex his way. He gave boundaries to protect us. If everyone saved themselves for when they are married then everyone is more safe and protected. It means more and is special. Man and man or woman and woman is not safe because of all the medical issues and how its just not how God intended sex.

That's absolute nonsense, STDs are not genre related they are transmissible in sexual relations no matter what genres are involved.
I'm sure that statistically speaking gay women have less risk in transmitting them in their sexual interaction...does God approve them better?!

Hopefully people could see me as good intentioned and soft and gentle but if they don't then ok.

If there is a Hell,I'm sure it is full of well intentioned people...

I should love them and not judge them. And I think it sucks homosexuals are treated so badly. I disagree with it but I should still love them. Sadly I'm not loving to them as I should. I admit I don't like homosexuality and have judged and not loved. I know this is wrong and I know its not right. I also want to stop this and love them as I know I should.

Ok I've promised myself I wasn't going to mock You in this post...so I won't.

 

[Eric Demory]

I don't care if you're gay, just don't be a stuck up about it around people, alright?

 

[arvore]

I don't care if you're gay, just don't be a stuck up about it around people, alright?

Is this supposed to mean something...
...or was it just a post from someone wanting to be part of a discussion without having something intelligible to write about it?!

 

[Eric Demory]

Is this supposed to mean something...
...or was it just a post from someone wanting to be part of a discussion without having something intelligible to write about it?!

Not much needs to be said. I don't find the reason for people to be ranting on about homosexuality, if it is not going to hurt anything at all. The people who are against homosexuality, need to quit with the communism and start worrying about themselves.

 

[tyl0r_r]

I posted something misleading by mistake. (that's an edit)

 

[FoolKiller]

Now I'm pretty sure from here on many would call me backward and what not, the same way you randomly assumed I have been taught to condemn and murder homosexuals with that statement above...

I never assumed anything about you. I made it clear that I want to understand why you think the way you do. Before the statement in question I made it apparent that I was raised in a Christian home to see homosexuality as a sin and that despite that I do not believe what I was raised to believe.

Sorry if my message got mixed up.

Because, in a broader sense, in the long run, they do affect the society they are living in.

How does it do so in a way that should require banning it?

Of those gay friends of mine, which number around 20s, 3 of them committed suicide, and some more wish they weren't gay (and they were in the US, not UAE, so don't blame the state law for what happened), so if that is any indication, some of them are not happy being that way.

I know of this girl getting bullied on Facebook that committed suicide. Should we outlaw being a loser? Ugly people don't like being ugly, let's ban being ugly. Not sure what being unhappy being gay has to do with anything, other than non-gay people can be a-holes.

I only spoke truth and as non belivers you don't agree and call me names and put me down.

I am a believer, but I don't agree with you. And even if it is a sin I do believe that in America religious belief should not be law. I believe that America should work under a policy of free will. There are consequences to actions in this life and the one after, but that is not for me to judge.

I only know that whatever God says is,is. Meaning whatever God/Jesus says is wrong is wrong and good is good no matter what man says or how we think or feel. Even if I like something that God doesn't, doesn't mean its good.

Now is the part where I test your faith, or your faith in yourself, by quoting the Bible from the same book that condemns homosexuality.

You must believe that we are all sinners, correct? Including yourself? So, you keep some goats on hand for sacrifices?

27 “‘If any member of the community sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the LORD’s commands, when they realize their guilt 28 and the sin they have committed becomes known, they must bring as their offering for the sin they committed a female goat without defect. 29 They are to lay their hand on the head of the sin offering and slaughter it at the place of the burnt offering. 30 Then the priest is to take some of the blood with his finger and put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering and pour out the rest of the blood at the base of the altar. 31 They shall remove all the fat, just as the fat is removed from the fellowship offering, and the priest shall burn it on the altar as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. In this way the priest will make atonement for them, and they will be forgiven.

Or, have you ever had a steak that still has some pink, you know anything less cooked than well done? Or gotten the discount steaks or hamburgers that are full of fat? If so, time to get another goat.

22 The LORD said to Moses, 23 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Do not eat any of the fat of cattle, sheep or goats. 24 The fat of an animal found dead or torn by wild animals may be used for any other purpose, but you must not eat it. 25 Anyone who eats the fat of an animal from which a food offering may be[c] presented to the LORD must be cut off from their people. 26 And wherever you live, you must not eat the blood of any bird or animal. 27 Anyone who eats blood must be cut off from their people.’”

Do you like bacon or ham? Seriously, who doesn't, except for those weird vegetarians)? Or what about shrimp, lobsters, crabs, clams, oysters, or even calamari?

1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: 3 You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud.

4 “‘There are some that only chew the cud or only have a divided hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The hyrax, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

9 “‘Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to regard as unclean. 11 And since you are to regard them as unclean, you must not eat their meat; you must regard their carcasses as unclean. 12 Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be regarded as unclean by you.

I do agree with God about marriage should be between a man and woman. As I mentioned before, God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Adam etc. And I know what he says about sexual sin and morality.

I believe that there should be no law regarding marriage of any kind. Marriage should be a private contract arranged through churches or lawyers. This entire issue is brought about by this ridiculous need for state intervention into everything.

God loves us so much he gave us free will. Even if that means we choose wrong or whatever and don't choose him. So we have free will and choice.

And that is the perfect example for America to follow.

I would like to say I enjoy talking about God and sharing, but I prefer for it to be done in love and kindness and gentleness without criticism and bad mean stuff. Like I prefer we be friends and two friends just having a gentle conversation.

Friendly conversational topic regarding religion: Do you believe in original sin?

If a Christian lived and acted how we should then others might view us different. I don't live or act as I should always but when I don't I always feel bad and get on myself because I know better.

What about the goat?

I put myself down a lot.

Don't do that, pray. Confess your sins and ask for forgiveness. That's a Catholic way of thinking.

God sees sex as awesome and perfect. Between a married man and woman. He gave us sex. But we should go about sex his way. He gave boundaries to protect us. If everyone saved themselves for when they are married then everyone is more safe and protected. It means more and is special. Man and man or woman and woman is not safe because of all the medical issues and how its just not how God intended sex.

Medical issues? There are sexual acts that straight, married people practice that fall in the categories of what homosexuals have to do. Does that change the status of married sex?

Or, say that two homosexuals love each other the same as any straight married couple (I know big leap, but work with me). If we allow them to call themselves married would their sex still be sin?

I think I'm defending myself because I feel bad and rejected here and I don't want that. I wish we all would love each other and be friends. Plus I'm very emotional and sad.

Mind if I ask why you are emotional and sad?

I also want to stop this and love them as I know I should.

Then do it. If you find your natural tendencies to make that hard, then ask yourself again if being homosexual is purely choice.

If a religion does not allow you to love everyone equally, I think you should seek one that does.

It is not the religion, but rather the denomination. Religion at its base is fine. It's the people that screw it up. The crusades and the inquisition were not instructed by God, rather men using God's name to achieve selfish or political means. Reminds me of a certain dead Muslim.

I don't care if you're gay, just don't be a stuck up about it around people, alright?

Define stuck up about it.

 

[Public'sTwin]

Here's a new(ish) angle:

This thread divides the subject into two topics, falsely distinguishing them as mutually exclusive:

• That homosexuality may be "a serious problem"

and

• That homosexuality may be an alternative lifestyle

Now, given that alternative lifestyles (neo-Nazism, for example) may in fact be a serious problem, we should probably rephrase this thread's title.

Another fallacy of this proposition, in using the term 'lifestyle' as the meter against which homosexuality is collectively judged, is that a lifestyle is foremost a choice—which, as any 'mosexual' person will attest, it certainly is not. It is a part of their life, not a chosen behavioral aesthete around which it is fashioned.

The grounds on which we are responding to this thread's proposition are already flawed, notwithstanding the aforementioned issues:

1. A 'serious problem', in a sociopolitical context, is usually quantified by statistical records of such problematic behaviour: crime-rate, economics and many other factors against which to be compared.

Has anyone proposed any methodological basis to validate or invalidate this proposition? Is there any empirical data to even support it as a debate?

2. An 'alternative lifestyle' presumes the existence of a normative baseline against which all lifestyles may be judged. Certainly by modern Western (and almost by extension, secular-Christian) standards, this may adhere; but as soon as we depart from that rubric, the baseline is eliminated. So, if we are to take "heterosexual" as the norm, then the question of whether of not "homosexuality" is alternative or not isn't even a debate: it's simply a fact.

So, if we're going to quit obfuscating the issue, this thread's title should simply be: "Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?", in which case people may then plea their cases for why society at large should condemn an essentially unobtrusive behavior.

 

[DMoss84]

In a race of survival of the fittest, homosexuals finish last. Thinking in these terms labels homosexuals a serious problem for the survival of the species. It can be argued that we have evolved away from primal influences; however, this argument would be considered invalid by philosophers such as myself. It really is astounding how much of out decision making process is influenced by survival and perpetuation of our kind.

 

[Public'sTwin]

In a race of survival of the fittest, homosexuals finish last. Thinking in these terms labels homosexuals a serious problem for the survival of the species. It can be argued that we have evolved away from primal influences; however, this argument would be considered invalid by philosophers such as myself. It really is astounding how much of out decision making process is influenced by survival and perpetuation of our kind.

Actually, an argument deriving from the same logic may indicate that it's a natural over-population inhibitor. Sorry, bro.

(BTW, you've ironically conflated a lot of dialectical terms in your 'philosophy'. . . )

 

[TheDrummingKING]

The bible is Gods word given to us through man. Inspired by the holy spirit.

The thing is, I could write a new bible about things I like, and think are correct, or how people should live, and just say that it was God's word and that it all came to me in a dream.

Who's to say that's not what the Bible is? It could just be a man's (well multiple since there are so many different versions) view on how he thinks things should be and using the excuse of hearing it from a deity to justify it as right.

That's the main reason I am not a religious person..

People make their own choices and live how they want to. Not everyone will agree with it. But that does not mean it is wrong, or that they have any right to push their own lifestyle on those who are different, or say that that particular "way of life" should be punished etc.

Epic lecture.

Famine you teach me so much !

 

[tyl0r_r]

In a race of survival of the fittest, homosexuals finish last. Thinking in these terms labels homosexuals a serious problem for the survival of the species. It can be argued that we have evolved away from primal influences; however, this argument would be considered invalid by philosophers such as myself. It really is astounding how much of out decision making process is influenced by survival and perpetuation of our kind.

Speaking as a philosophy major who just finished four years of University about a month ago I really have to tell you that you don't get to dismiss the other side by saying "this argument would be considered invalid by philosophers such as myself". Appeal to your supposed qualifications in winning arguments doesn't constitute an argument. Why not take Kant's categorical imperative and use it to show that homosexuality is unethical because, as you clumsily allude to, it's unsustainable.

Not that I believe any of that, personally: Kant was a dick (an ad hominem on the internet, sue me) and there are too many humans alive anyway. Maybe the homosexuals are actually doing us a big favour on that front and their existence will actually ensure than humanity doesn't drown in a sea of unfeedable, poverty stricken surplus population.

 

[buggs1a]

In answer to questions asked me by someone who said he's a believer in God.

I'm not wanting to post anymore. Don't wanna argue and discuss anymore. Didn't wanna argue or fight anyway. I don't like being mocked and put down and everything else.

I posted based on the op. I didn't post to preach or argue or even get a response to what I said in my op. I didn't have to respond to anyone and shouldn't have but I did.

I am glad I could in a loving way share God with others. I choose now to stay back and try not to allow myself to be pulled in again.

Why a I sad and all I said? I have depression, adhd, tourette syndrome, anxiety and other issues. But I'm extremely lonely, lonesome, sad, hurt, broken hearted etc.

I hope people would come to Jesus through fiith. He's so incredibly awesome and loving and sweet, precious, gentle, forgiving and full of mercy to those who come to him through faith.

Take care everyone.

 

[buggs1a]

Come to Jesus through *faith* not filth. Typo. Sorry.

 

[Joel]

Come to Jesus through *faith* not filth. Typo. Sorry.

'Tis what the edit button's for


But on topic, in response to what Public's Twin said, I agree, the question in the thread title is definitely a flawed question. I don't think homosexuality is a "serious problem" by any means, but that doesn't mean I think it's "alternative". You're either gay or you aren't, and it's no big deal if you are.

 

[Eric Demory]

Define stuck up about it.

As I mean of "stuck up", I mean don't be ranting on about how great your relationship is going, how better it is to be gay than straight, and expressing to others about how much being gay changed your life. Things like that. It's either being the normal loose human being you are, or acting like it's all about me, me, me, and how great it is to be me. That's what I mean about a stuck up.

 

[buggs1a]

Yeah, sorry. Gtplanet Android app has no edit option. Sorry.

Woops yes it does lol. Sorry.

 

[Joel]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=365220

New York Rangers player Sean Avery criticized for supporting gay marriage by player agent.

An agency representing several NHL players has publicly called out New York Rangers forward Sean Avery for supporting same-sex marriage.

In a series of messages put out on Twitter on Monday, Burlington, Ontario-based Uptown Sports Management criticized Avery after he recorded a video supporting the New Yorkers for Marriage Equality campaign.

"Very sad to read Sean Avery's misguided support of same-gender 'marriage,'" wrote Uptown's Todd Reynolds in the tweet. "Legal or not, it will always be wrong."

In the video, Avery looks into the camera and says: "I'm Sean Avery, and I'm a New Yorker for marriage equality. I treat everyone the way I expect to be treated, and that applies to marriage. Committed couples should be able to marry the person they love. Join me in supporting marriage equality."

Reynolds then clarified his statement later on Twitter, explaining that it was not meant to incite hate.

"It is not intolerance in any way shape or form," he said. "I believe we are all equal...but I believe in the sanctity of marriage between one man and one woman. This is my personal viewpoint. I do not hate anyone."

Reynolds joined Cybulski and Company on TSN Radio 1050 on Monday and expanded on the statements that he made through social media.

"There's certainly a voice for the other side on this particular issue," said Reynolds. "I was merely responding to be the other voice. I believe in standing up for what you believe in. I'm passionate about what I believe in. And I believe in morality and I believe in right and wrong. I know many people with different view points for what is right and wrong."

He also expressed surprise that his opinion was attacked so viciously by the public.

"I'm a little disappointment in some of the response," said Reynolds. "If you oppose a viewpoint, you're immediately targeted by some people as a hater, a bigot, intolerant, homophobic and many other terms. That's obviously not the case for people who know me. I don't hate anyone and I'm certainly not a bigot."

When asked if expressing his opinion would put the clients he represents in the bad position of having to answer questions about his statements, Reynolds once again defended his right to have an opinion on the matter and said that he feels the players he represents will not be affected.

"It's my opinion and it's something that's an easy response, Todd Reynolds commented on that and it's his position," said Reynolds. "I've already been asked what happens if my clients disagree with this opinion and that's fine, we're going to disagree on all kinds of issues in life but we have to be able to talk about them. If Mike Fisher or any other client of ours agrees or disagrees on this position is of no consequence and they shouldn't feel compelled to comment. I feel that if Sean Avery or any other player can comment on one side of the discussion, then I work in hockey and I'm in hockey 24/7, why can't I comment on it as well."

If any of you follow the NHL, you'll know this is probably the first time Avery's done something right in the media


I can't get over the absurdity of Reynolds, "Legal or not, it will always be wrong."


Most people would agree that to be a bigoted and hateful comment, but then he comes back with this garbage about not hating anybody. Telling somebody that their entire existence is wrong sounds pretty hateful to me. Don't beat around the bush, you have an irrational fear of gays because you're a small minded person who can't fathom that other people are different, and now you're trying to save face because you know it makes you look like an idiot (or one of the players he represents threatened to leave).


On a side note, I'm sorry if I get a tad passionate about this issue, but I have a few very close friends who are gay, and when people spew this crap about gay marriage being "wrong", it just makes my blood boil. My gay friends are great people, kind, caring, funny, and the only difference is that they like people with the same parts as them. If that's enough for you to hate somebody, I don't even know what to tell you.


EDIT: Re read the article, in particular the part where Reynolds refers to it as gay "marriage". Real fine upstanding member of society Reynolds is eh? Non judgmental, loving, and caring, what a fine, honest man.

 

[Nuck81]

I saw this thread and started on the first page, was about to respond and then realized that this thread is almost ten years old and 70 pages long.....so this has probably been answered.

There are many documented acts of homosexuality in animals among a variety of species. It's very prominent in animals of higher and more complex social hierarchy's.

Personally, while I myself am hetero, I have many homosexual friends, being involved heavily in performing arts, and one of the men I most look up to in life is homosexual.

Baha'u'llah teaches us that the only acceptable sexual relationship is between a man and a woman in the sanctity of marriage. So really any promiscuous sex, rather it be between a man and woman, two men, or two women, or anything other than a married man and woman is wrong.

However He also teaches us that we are not to treat homosexuals as condemned outcasts and to treat everyone with respect and dignity, an attitude of discrimination and social intolerance toward homosexuals is not supported.

However there are some interesting writings on this and other social issues.

" If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science, they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition. Unquestionably there must be agreement between true religion and science. If a question be found contrary to reason, faith and belief in it are impossible, and there is no outcome but wavering and vacillation."Abdu'l-Bahá

 

[FoolKiller]

In answer to questions asked me by someone who said he's a believer in God.

I'm not wanting to post anymore. Don't wanna argue and discuss anymore. Didn't wanna argue or fight anyway. I don't like being mocked and put down and everything else.

I posted based on the op. I didn't post to preach or argue or even get a response to what I said in my op. I didn't have to respond to anyone and shouldn't have but I did.

I am glad I could in a loving way share God with others. I choose now to stay back and try not to allow myself to be pulled in again.

I don't expect a response, but here goes:

I have very often found believers who take the stance that if it says it in the Bible it is gospel. I was presenting you with evidence that you are not practicing what you preach or have not understood everything you have read. If you are going to say the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong so you believe it is then you have to answer, at least to yourself, if it is also wrong to eat red meat or shellfish.


And then you have to ask yourself, should your religious beliefs be the basis of laws in America? If you say you think it should, then you have to ask yourself if that is fair to non-Christians. If you don't know just imagine you lived in a Muslim run country and ask how you, as a Christian, would feel.

Why a I sad and all I said? I have depression, adhd, tourette syndrome, anxiety and other issues. But I'm extremely lonely, lonesome, sad, hurt, broken hearted etc.

I hope for your sake that you are getting some counseling, and possibly medication if needed.

As I mean of "stuck up", I mean don't be ranting on about how great your relationship is going,

You say the same thing to straight couples, right?

how better it is to be gay than straight, and expressing to others about how much being gay changed your life. Things like that.

Never met a homosexual who acts that.

It's either being the normal loose human being you are, or acting like it's all about me, me, me, and how great it is to be me. That's what I mean about a stuck up.

You say the same things to straight people, right? I know tons of guys who are all me, me, me.


Honestly, you sound like you have some stereotype based on Jack from Will & Grace, when the truth is straight people do all the same things in their own ways.

 

[Joel]

^ FoolKiller's right.

People say "homosexuals are fine, I just don't want to see it". Personally, I find what some of the heterosexual couples at school do in the hallways to be more repulsive and disgusting than two men or women kissing. The biggest irony of it all, is that most of the straight guys I know who say "it's OK but just not in front of me", only mean gay men. They all watch lesbian porno.

 

[Alex p.]

I hope for your sake that you are getting some counseling, and possibly medication if needed.

I wish him the same. But I would never, I mean NEVER advice ANYBODY to take medication, it's the worst you can do in such situations, they will save you for some time, but when the effect starts to decline, you will find yourself in a far worse situation, then before you took them.

I thought you would know this Foolkiller, as you're not a fool obviously.

Jk Jk

 

[FoolKiller]

I wish him the same. But I would never, I mean NEVER advice ANYBODY to take medication, it's the worst you can do in such situations, they will save you for some time, but when the effect starts to decline, you will find yourself in a far worse situation, then before you took them.

I thought you would know this Foolkiller, as you're not a fool obviously.

Jk Jk

Two things:

1) You have the education to make you an expert on such things, yes?

2) You really only mean medication for emotional/mental disorders and not medical cases, right?

 

[Alex p.]

To 1.: No I do not. But I have sth. else. The will and time to do research and I did. And I have a brain, fully-functioning one. And I have faith in my intuition, my gut AND my knowledge.

No offence Foolkiller, but you are like most internet people: "Give me liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiink!!! Give me evideeeeeeeenceee!!!

I don't have link, I also read magazines, scientific ones, not only teh interwebz. You people should learn to trust others and accept advice and knowledge, instead of asking always for some super-solid-proof-out-the-mouth-of president or dr. x and y.

To2: I consider depression and even adhs deseases, which can be "cured" by will, your will, will always be stronger in the end, then all this pharmacrap. But that's my point of knowledge.

I don't say you should believe everything I or anybody else says without "proof", but goddamned give it a thought and search for "evidence" yourself if you don't believe. But yeah, teh interwebz is mostly about being a smartass without any knowledge, I know, but I do not consider myself as one of those.

 

[Rich S]

Good for Avery, he has a long past. A while back there was an article about a gay NHL player and how secretive he felt he had to be in order to not be fired or his $$ value lowered.

 

[Joel]

Good for Avery, he has a long past. A while back there was an article about a gay NHL player and how secretive he felt he had to be in order to not be fired or his $$ value lowered.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGGH3M9NKBI">YouTube Link</a>

It's the first time I've ever supported him on something, that's for sure

 

[buggs1a]

Yes I take some meds and have a therapist.

 

[icelt]

(nothing specific)

You know you just might enjoy Victor Frankl's "Mans Search for Meaning." There are some amazing people out there who have gone through some tremendously traumatic stuff and lived to share, somewhat remarkably at times, what turns out to be very positive outlooks and very positive perspectives. At times I think the detailed personal accounts of contemporary persons are a little more practical and a little easier to digest and relate to.

Man's Search for Meaning

Probably easiest to check out some of the reviews and see how they grab you.

 

[Villain]

Every Post You've Made.

How much do you love Sarah Palin?

 

[buggs1a]

I don't.

 

[Villain]

My mistake, sorry for the off-topic question.