The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[DKLion3s]

The point I'm making is that you wish they didn't pick the rainbow symbol because children like rainbows. I'm saying that many people vote against the legalization of gay marriage solely because of the term "marriage."

You're saying that you wouldn't have a problem if the homosexual community just chose a different symbol/color. I'm saying that another group wouldn't have a problem if the homosexual community chose a different term besides marriage.

They are similar in that they are both superficial. Sorry for the confusion. I didn't mean to "equate" them.

=========================

Gotcha! Appreciate you taking the time to clarify, totally envision your perspective now.

As you have probably deciphered, that rainbow situation muddles my understanding. Point taken though.

Regards.

Historically we've seen churches act as toll-booths that taxed sinners rather than as the idealistic figureheads that one might hope for. To prove the threat of sin it was necessary to maintain the Church view of science - and that's based in very old word-of-mouth storytelling that represents a social view of a thousand or more years ago.

Homosexual sodomy features in the Christian Bible and is portrayed as both a natural activity and a sin... this (along with views on the place of women in society) has been the cause of much schism.

I hate the title of this thread - homosexuality is neither a serious problem OR an alternative lifestyle... to be 'alternative' would presume the 'normality' of another lifestyle.

You're gay, or you're not. Some people spend too much time worrying about what other people are doing in private. Get over it.

This in general. 👍


Regards.

 

[arora]

Homosexual sodomy features in the Christian Bible and is portrayed as both a natural activity and a sin...

Where does the bible say sodomy is a natural activity, and what do you mean by 'christian' bible? Here are a few clear verses.

Leviticus 18; 22, Leviticus 20; 13 (old testament)
Romans 1; 24-27 (new testament)

Some people spend too much time worrying about what other people are doing in private. Get over it.

Too true 👍

 

[TenEightyOne]

Where does the bible say sodomy is a natural activity, and what do you mean by 'christian' bible? Here are a few clear verses.

I could have phrased that better. While Leviticus, Romans and Corinthians condemn (or make un-sound) the practice it appears to be more widespread than one might have expected. That was the context in which I used 'natural' - to show that it happened in a normal cultural context whilst being against the teachings of pre-Christianity.

By 'Christian Bible' I was making it clear that I was discussing exactly that; 'Bible' is simply a book of significance to an Atheist or Agnostic.

 

[arora]

Ah, I understand you now.

Based on not only the bible but other historical accounts as well, I agree. It seems to me it was not contested as much in the past as it is now either, or maybe I'm only seeing the U.S.

 

[icelt]

Mostly applies, especially the conclusion.

Mild NSFW language warning:

Spoiler

"You bun-less, cut wiener kraut eater!"

 

[PeterJB]

Is their supposed to be some kind of metaphorical thing in there? Cause I really don't get it.

 

[icelt]

Is their supposed to be some kind of metaphorical thing in there? Cause I really don't get it.

Yeah it is kinda subtle, took me several viewings to pick up on it too

 

[Danny]

I'd like to share something with you. It's a response from my friend, and University Of Chester Chaplain, Fr Ian Delinger. He is one of the wisest men I have ever had the fortune to meet, and he helped me deal with a lot of personal demons.

I had emailed him regarding a problem with a old friend of mine (who is gay) harbouring a deep hatred for religion, and berating me for being involved with Chaplaincy activities during my time away from home.

Your friend's reaction is one of feeling betrayed, rather than hating you or rejecting you. Betrayal comes with a mixture of emotions that are difficult to sort out, and which can only really be untangled by the person who feels betrayed. Much of what you say may not be helpful; only time will tell. Patience and love are all you can show. You can't take back what 'you did', and in this situation, you have no need to apologize. Attempts to make him 'understand' may be futile, but an initial response is both well within your right, and one that may get him on the path to understanding your experiences, despite them not being his own.

First, I must say that there are plenty (many, many, many) people who have no religious affiliation who are hostile toward gay men and women. Fundamentally (in my opinion), our opposition to homosexuality lies in what is called 'natural law': it's against nature. Though numerous studies disprove this notion, human beings hold onto natural law for all sorts of things. And as animal relationships are fundamentally (and naturally) about procreation, homosexual relationships are against nature. Much of the Church (particularly the Roman Catholic Church) uses Natural Law as part of the foundation of its ethics. We studied it briefly in theological college, with much debate.

Secondly, but more importantly, God loves what and whom He created. I cannot emphasize this any more than with these words. Even as an American, I never understood why, at sporting events, people in the crowds held up signs with 'John 3:16' on them. For some reason that I cannot explain, I understand it now. It has nothing, but everything, to do with gay people: It has to do with ALL people. If there is anything you take away from our three years of sporadic interaction, please do take John 3:16 away with you to contemplate for the remainder of your days. I wish you would have come to Sunday Service when David Cowie gave his brave and moving testimony. Send him a message to ask him about it, or come back before the end of July to meet with him about his faith journey and his sexuality.

Some people focus on aspects of our Judeo-Christian history that leans toward condemning homosexuals. While their arguments can be justified, in my opinion, their arguments are misguided. The 8 Bible verses which address homosexuality are in very specific contexts (I can refer you to an expert to discuss this). The inordinate focus on homosexuality rather than on social justice would (and is) condemned in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. The love of God for His people is overwhelming from Genesis to Revelation, and cannot be explained away for any reason. And finally, it is very clear in the Bible that it is not for us to judge - that prerogative belongs to God alone. Rebuke and admonish, yes, but to judge and condemn is not in the human realm. As you experienced with Chester Chaplaincy, a Christian's responsibility is to spread the Good News, which can be done in so many different ways. It is up to the recipient and the Holy Spirit to do all the work from there.

It is unfortunate that those who make the news are those who are vocally against homosexuality. The media is just as much to blame as those in the Church who choose to express hatred, despite their mandate as Christians to express love. The media doesn't carry the story that the Diocese of Manchester promotes a monthly service for LGBT and friends. I preached at the service in May. It is very sparsely attended...because the media hasn't exposed it. The media hasn't exposed that several different denominations of Christians in the West have formally approved both the ordination of homosexual men and women as priests and deacons, and the blessing of same sex marriages, including denominations in the UK (though...as usual...the CofE drags its feet).

So...what can you say to your friend? The less you say, the better, but it would hopefully be profound. My suggestion is to explain that 'some' do not always represent 'all', neither do 'some' represent what is 'true'. Some Christians condemn; some Christians love. Some homosexuals are carelessly promiscuous; some are in loving, monogamous relationships. Some Christians refuse to engage; some Christians admit that they struggle with difference, but open themselves to all God's people. Some homosexuals make their sexuality the centre of their lives; some homosexuals are 'regular' people who are simply homosexual. Some Christians believe that doing good deeds will ensure their place in Heaven; some Christians believe that their faith alone has saved them. Some homosexuals vote Lib-Dem; some homosexuals vote Conservative.

If you want to challenge him, ask him what he thinks of those smaller groups and individuals who do not attach themselves to Christianity and the Church and who have persecuted homosexuals. Or, is it only the Church who must suffer for the atrocities to homosexuals? Ask him what should be our attitude toward those homosexuals who have knowingly maliciously spread HIV/AIDS. And ask him how hating Christians will do any good for either homosexuals or humanity. What good does any sort of hatred do? Ask him to go for a pint with a gay Christian or a gay priest to ask any question he wants.

But most of all, demonstrate to him that you two can be friends who have different experiences which lead to different opinions and beliefs.

I'm sorry to go on so long. I really wished to be brief, because I was profoundly moved by your message. But this is such a big topic that I felt I needed to explain a few things. I hope it is helpful. Please do feel free to ask more questions.

Thank you, Danny. And God bless you.

FrIan

 

[Horde_R35]

Theres comon sense and good sense! Most people have comon sense and know where they are, how to be and behave around other people so we all can leave in harmony! But dont be choving the gayness and the girly side down my throat (you know what i mean)! Im very sorry but seeing two man kiss is repulsive to me and about 90% of the male population (at least here in Portugal)! Good sence is what not most people are gifted with! Example: I love my GF and she loves me, but we dont go showing off that in public in an exaggerated way, making a scene, like grabing her ass in a shopping center or something! No one wants to see that, and we do that in our own privacy only! I mean 2 man kissing in public is not in good sense! No one wants to see that.

 

[Joel]

Theres comon sense and good sense! Most people have comon sense and know where they are, how to be and behave around other people so we all can leave in harmony! But dont be choving the gayness and the girly side down my throat (you know what i mean)! Im very sorry but seeing two man kiss is repulsive to me and about 90% of the male population (at least here in Portugal)! Good sence is what not most people are gifted with! Example: I love my GF and she loves me, but we dont go showing off that in public in an exaggerated way, making a scene, like grabing her ass in a shopping center or something! No one wants to see that, and we do that in our own privacy only! I mean 2 man kissing in public is not in good sense! No one wants to see that.

I wouldn't particularly say I "don't" want to see two men kissing in public, I really don't care. Do you kiss your girlfriend in public?

 

[oblivionskate]

If you are gay then you are gay, If you are straight then you are straight.........you can't control what makes your dick hard. I mean, it might sound like a joke but Im serious. can someone PLEASE explain to me how homosexuality messes up your personal life??? why does it hurt you so bad? i know Im going to get replys and PM's about the whole religion thing but who ever said your religion was right? if you are gay then that's nature. Its something in your body telling you that's right. that's why Im not a fan of Christianity and most religions. the bible tells you to do the right thing but constantly tells you someones beliefs and feelings are a sin?......the bible seems to always contradict itself (not ranting, i mean if you think being gay is wrong thats your opinion, all i can do is try to persuade. Im just asking why is it so bad?)

 

[Horde_R35]

I wouldn't particularly say I "don't" want to see two men kissing in public, I really don't care. Do you kiss your girlfriend in public?

You may not care, but do you like to see it or not? I kiss my GF in public in an "educated way"!

 

[Lucas]

Personally I don't like ("like" as in "enjoy") seeing men kissing in public. If I did, I would be homosexual myself. That doesn't mean that because it isn't a pleasant sight to me, they shouldn't kiss.

 

[Horde_R35]

Personally I don't like ("like" as in "enjoy") seeing men kissing in public. If I did, I would be homosexual myself. That doesn't mean that because it isn't a pleasant sight to me, they shouldn't kiss.

My point exactly!

 

[Sureboss]

Thoughts?

Quite surprised, my initial reaction if you said about that sort of situation in somewhere like Texas would be more of the bigot with the thumbs up/high five. Be interesting to see what sort of results that would have over here, especially comparing somewhere like Brighton to an area with a lower percentage of gay population. I'd happily step in to any situation regarding any kind of discrimination. The facts they showed stating that 29 states can refuse gays service? Land of the free, huh?

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

(Whoops, sorry for circumventing the profanity filter unwittingly with that .gif, mods)

 

[Joel]

My point exactly!

That's not at all what you initially said. You said they shouldn't kiss in public, he says he doesn't care.

 

[Horde_R35]

That's not at all what you initially said. You said they shouldn't kiss in public, he says he doesn't care.

LOL i read it all wrong! I keep my opinion anyways!

 

[Joel]

LOL i read it all wrong! I keep my opinion anyways!

Would you care to explain? Why is it OK for a man and a woman to kiss discretely in public, but not two men?

Personally, I find the way some of the couples at school mack on each other in the hallways to be far more disgusting than two men kissing (which I don't particularly find disgusting at all).

 

[Lucas]

Personally, I find the way some of the couples at school mack on each other in the hallways to be far more disgusting than two men kissing (which I don't particularly find disgusting at all).

This sort of happens to me. When a couple start kissing passionately next to me, I feel akward. It's not that I find it disgusting. It's just, well, akward.

Forever alone.

 

[Drift260Z]

I heard this from another place.

If homosexuality is a sin, and it's in black and white in the bible...so is not treating your body like a temple. And women should have their head covered. And in Deuteronomy, a marriage is only valid if the woman is a virgin, and she should be executed if she is not. And that anyone who commits adultery should be stoned to death. In Mark, divorce is prohibited. I assume for homosexuality, people are referring to Leviticus 18:6: "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female. It is an abomination." A similar verse occurs two chapters later, in Leviticus 20:13: "A man who sleeps with another man is an abomination and should be executed." Leviticus is a holiness code written 3,000 years ago. It also includes prohibitions against round haircuts, tattoos, working on the Sabbath, wearing garments of mixed fabrics, eating pork or shellfish, getting your fortune told, and even playing with the skin of a pig (There goes football!). I believe in morality, which is doing right regardless of what I am told...not in religion, which is doing what I am told regardless of what is right. You're welcome to your own interpretation of the Bible and politics, of course, but for me, I need more than "the Bible says so" to justify certain things in this world and certainly to judge them.

Why people get so up in arms about homosexuality is beyond me. ...just a bunch of blind sheep doing what was told to them by an establishment. I think why religions are really against it comes from the fact that a homosexual relationship can not produce kids. so, it could be a survival of the species sort of thing.



I'm gonna end this post with a quote about how the bible has been changed so many time through many different translations, and re-writings, and edits, and kinds taking out and putting in parts they like, and more translations form the original stories that were originally told orally a few hundred years after the event actually happened by people that couldn't actually write...it's from David Cross:

the bible is basically the worlds oldest game of "telephone"...

 

[CTznOfTime]

Generally speaking, i am fine with Gay people.
Gay people are actually fun people for the most part.

They are human beings (just like the people who despise Gays), and they are exercising their freedom to be whatever they want to be... free from anyones' rules etc etc ...


Having said that, i find it bordeline disgusting seeing 2 guys kissing. They should keep that confined within the walls of their closets home. When that happens, i just try to look away... I just cannot stand it, no matter how much they love each other. Even when they hold hands, it's just weird to me.

2 girls kissing, i am OK with that (especially if they are pretty) ,
it's borderline awkward, but not disgusting.

A regular boy-girl couple making out, is nice to see because of their love for each other, but it is awkward if it's overdone, no matter if i am alone or with my GF...


Now, obviously and clearly there is double standard here.
Why is that? I cannot explain it myself.
I can see that: it is unfair for one group, but i just cannot explain it myself.
I suppose it is because of the way i was brought up traditionally through our culture.

I am happy at least that i am able to accept the fact that Gay people are here with their way of life. I am just glad that i am not one of those tight A$$es who just cannot fantom the thought of two people of the same gender being together.

We are all humans being, we come in all shapes and forms, skin tones and cultures, mind sets and history, we go through lots of changes in throughout our lives, and even if we dont change ourselves from birth til death, people around us are bound to change, the diversity is too great. Let's just share this planet while avoiding to step on each others toes. Spend the little time we have here to make it nice and painless for each other. There is no point in wasting anyones time with annoyances... Let's just have fun.

It all comes down to: Respect each other...
Do into others what you would like others to do into you...
Don't do into others what you would not like others to do into you...

Same thing goes for those who drive slow Versus those who drive fast...
we have to learn to be CONSIDERATE toward each one, and share the road (of life... TO EACH KIND, OUR LANE... no one cannot own all the lanes...
Fast on the LEft, Slower on the Right, (reverse that if you are in the UK or Japan or wherever else you guys drive on the left side)

there are still basic social rules we all have to stick to... like AUP.

 

[Public'sTwin]

Maybe venturing out into society should come with a (general) AUP? It might cut down on petty crime.

"You're 18 now. Before you go back outside in public, you must sign this."

 

[G.T.Ace]

This sort of happens to me. When a couple start kissing passionately next to me, I feel akward. It's not that I find it disgusting. It's just, well, akward.

Forever alone.

Oh yeah, I know what you mean.

 

[Joel]

Maybe venturing out into society should come with a (general) AUP? It might cut down on petty crime.

"You're 18 now. Before you go back outside in public, you must sign this."

Imagine what the part about proper English and grammar would do to the music industry.

 

[PeterJB]

Imagine what the part about proper English and grammar would do to the music industry.

Send it back 40 years? (Not that thats a bad thing of course )

 

[jackargent]

I kiss my GF in public in an "educated way"!

how exactly do you kiss in an educated way - do you come up for breath every five minutes & quote some shakespeare to each other?

 

[R3D D3V!L]

I don't have a problem with gay people. After all, they don't choose to be gay.

 

[Villain]

Theres comon sense and good sense! Most people have comon sense and know where they are, how to be and behave around other people so we all can leave in harmony! But dont be choving the gayness and the girly side down my throat (you know what i mean)! Im very sorry but seeing two man kiss is repulsive to me and about 90% of the male population (at least here in Portugal)! Good sence is what not most people are gifted with! Example: I love my GF and she loves me, but we dont go showing off that in public in an exaggerated way, making a scene, like grabing her ass in a shopping center or something! No one wants to see that, and we do that in our own privacy only! I mean 2 man kissing in public is not in good sense! No one wants to see that.

I'm not energetic enough at this moment to break down and respond the hypocritical commentary of this statement, but I'll submit to you a worthy soundbyte:

Common sense and common courtesy are not as common as they oughta be!

 

[Joel]

You may not care, but do you like to see it or not? I kiss my GF in public in an "educated way"!

Again, I really don't care. I don't "like" it in the sense that I get aroused, because I'm not gay, but I certainly don't find it disgusting or repulsive if that's what you're asking. Quite frankly, I really don't give much of a 🤬 what other people are doing, unless it's directly affecting me.