The "I have GT5P image quality issues!" Thread

Solid Lifters

Solid Lifters

19,311
United States
Inland Empire SoCal
SOLID_LIFTERS
THIS IS NOT A FLAME THREAD! Please, no childish flame wars.

For The Purpose of Supporting PD With Helpful Input


It looks like many of us are having quality issues with some of the images of GT5 Prologue. In an effort to help support PD with what appears to be a problem, I've started this thread for potential valuable input that just might help PD with this problem.

So, please post the following information along with what specific problems you are seeing:


  • Brand and Model # of TV set

  • Display Resolution of The Set (1080p, 1080i, etc.)

  • Resolution Output Setting of PS3

  • Connection Type (HDMI, Component, etc.)

  • What Country Are You In?


I'll go first...

Sony Bravia KDL46XBR3 LCD HDTV

1080p

1080p

HDMI

USA

A lot of jaggies and smeared images. Shadows have horizontal scan lines and 'line crawl'.
 
LG 42inch HD plasma

1080i

1080p

HDMI

AUS

jaggies and smeared images as well. but the worst thing is the tearing of the screen which severely impacts the smooth flow of the image :-(

when changed to 720p it improved the tearing slightly but not fully.
 
Samsung LE40M87

1080p

1080p

HDMI

Sweden

Experiencing jaggin and tearing of the image and gives a rough overall graphic feeling..
 
I hope it's OK if I post too. I have no grafical problems with it.

SONY BRAVIA KDL 26" LCD HDTV

720p

HDMI

Switzerland

Maybe you should try 720.
 
Sharp XD1E 37" - No issues whatsoever.. Looks beautiful...

1080p

1080p

HDMI

Denmark
 
2 year old 26" Samsung HDTV (can't remember model... sorry).

1080i

HDMI

United Kingdom

No major issues that I can see, apart from some low-res shadows and some jaggies. Minimal tearing.
 
Viewsonic 28in. monitor (VX2835WM)

1080p

1080p

Component (will be getting HDMI)

USA

jaggies, ghosting, tearing... washed out areas but might be from my setup.
 
Nice to see that this has a separate topic, SL. The demo thread is becoming a bit painful to navigate.

- Sony Bravia W Series LCD (40)
- 1080p
- PS3 set to 1080p
- HDMI cable
- Australian TV

I've also dragged my PS3 to mate's place, and his older X (46) Bravia exhibits similar issues.

I'm getting frame stuttering that's very noticeable when selecting a car in the showroom. The jerkiness spoils the tasty car models- this is not a problem that I encountered with GTHD. In game I get significant screen tearing, and what appears to be frame dropping. Aliasing is pronounced, though I'm not certain that this is a display related issue. The 30fps replays are fine, so I assume that the combo of 60fps and 1080p is a recipe for ugly. Hope it's fixed before my BD Prologue ships out in December. :grumpy:
 
Sony XBR3 40''
HDMI
1080P

V-sync, smearing, crushed blacks all over the place.

I am a GT fanboy first and foremost but i asked my wife when she walked in the room if she thought is looked better than Forza2. She said well the cars look nice but why is everything smeared with white dotted lines and choppy. She preferred forza2 and GTHD for that matter.

I personally loved GTHD because it was clean looking. This is not.
Also this is for sure upscaled(like GTHD)....no way it is running 1920x1200(1080P)
If this is a setup problem would love to know how to fix it.
 
What's this "smearing" you guys are talking about? I didn't see a single instance of anything I would call "smearing". Unless you're referring to the heat-wave effect during replays.

Framerate was rock-solid, no jitters, and no noticable V-sync issues.

The only thing that stood out for me was some odd lighting on some parts of the track, but this appears to be something in the way the game is handling the HDR lighting when pointing right into the sun, so I don't know if I'd call it a "glitch" just yet, or if it's just something that we've never seen before because of the new lighting engine.

I did see one minor instance of LOD pop-in during a replay, where the system suddenly added shadows to the interior of the car when it was about 60 yards away from the camera.

Just out of curiosity, does the phrase "work in progress" mean nothing to you guys?
 
Solid Lifters
THIS IS NOT A FLAME THREAD! Please, no childish flame wars.
Click to expand...
👍

However, you may seriously reconsider the thread title then... as not only does it suggest flaming... but it is terribly misleading... and some may not understand what you mean by "horrible" and some may not know whether or not your are being sarcastic.


For The Purpose of Supporting PD With Helpful Input
Click to expand...
As mentioned by DarthTurismo in the Demo thread, it's very likely PD is testing their games on a wide range of displays and systems, and hearing and seeing first hand reports from the vast community of diehard videophiles in Japan, as well as around the world.

In fact, now that I think about it, there have been several video interviews and walkthroughs at PD's offices in Japan, and you can see countless numbers of different displays set-up to play, and presumably test their games.

I still think this is a great idea for a thread, but like this thread, really it is the GTP membership that will likely get the most out of it, as it may help a lot of people understand and properly calibrate their displays to maximize the performance, specifically for GT5:P, but other games, and other video sources as well I suspect. 👍



So, please post the following information along with what specific problems you are seeing:
  • Brand and Model # of TV set
  • Display Resolution of The Set (1080p, 1080i, etc.)
  • Resolution Output Setting of PS3
  • Connection Type (HDMI, Component, etc.)
  • What Country Are You In?
Click to expand...
If you don't mind, may I suggest adding a few more useful categories:
  • Model Year
  • Screen Size & Type of Projection (FP, RP, DV) & Type of Display (CRT, Plasma, LCD, DLP, LCoS)
  • Distance from Screen (to calculate D:W ratio)


Given all that here are all my display set-ups:


  • 2006 Panasonic AE1000
  • 98" 1920x1080p FP LCD
  • PS3 Output 1080p -> HDMI
  • 1.4 D:W (10' from Screen)
  • USA


  • 2006 Samsung HL-R4667W
  • 46" 1280x720p RP DLP
  • PS3 Output 720p -> HDMI
  • 3.6 D:W (12' from screen)
  • USA

  • 2007 Vizio VU42LF
  • 42" 1920x1080p DV LCD
  • PS3 Output 1080p -> HDMI
  • 3.6 D:W (11' from Screen)
  • USA

  • 2006 ViewSonic VX2025wm
  • 20" 1680x1054p DV LCD
  • PS3 Output -> HDMI -> DVI
  • 1.4 D:W (2' from Screen)
  • USA

  • 2002 JVC AV-20320
  • 20" 640x480i DV CRT
  • PS3 Output 480i -> Composite
  • 2.3 D:W (3' from screen)
  • USA

  • 1997 Panasonic CT-20G22V
  • 20" 640x480i DV CRT
  • PS3 Output 480i -> Composite
  • 2.3 D:W (3' from screen)
  • USA


  • 2000 JVC C-13110
  • 13" 640x480i DV CRT
  • PS3 Output 480i -> Composite
  • 3.5 D:W (3' from screen)
  • USA


As mentioned already HERE, so far I have played GT5:P on the 1080p LCP front projector, and the 720p DLP RPTV... and like G.T, while I see some low-res shadows, jaggies, and tearing.. it is hardly "horrible"! In fact, it's actually quite good compared to past and current gen racing games. 👍

If people are comparing moving images to the stills, or comparing games to HD movies, then that might explain why some are disappointed.

As I mentioned HERE, there is certainly plenty of room for improvement, as there is with ALL video games, but that in no way suggests the image quality is even bad let alone horrible, and in fact, compared to other driving games it is extremely good.

Most importantly, all of this is a good sign considering this is just a very early demo, and GT5:P has at least another two months of development time, and probably even more by the time the English language version comes out (assuming it does come out at all, which I suspect it will). 👍👍



BTW: The following thread may also offer some helpful info for those wanting to improve their displays:
 
Yes it is a work in progress but none of the media released before this indicated any of these problems...
I am still wondering if it is a set up thing...

I just came down the a last straight away on the track. And there was so many white dotted lines and flickering I could not believe it. If you took the dashboard away I would swear it was a PS2 game.


Sorry just my experience on my TV here. The pre-demo videos show NONE of this. Even the hand cams from the tokyo game show floor.


And also.....this is not 1920x1200(1080P) so PD.....do not say it anymore. It is also not 60fps......do you not say it anymore.
 
:lol:
Awefully easy to say no flaming when you've gotten your flame out in the title of the thread. I'd think a more appropriate title would be "How does the GT5P Demo look on your TV?"
Also, Nafai23,
Welcome to the GTP. Glad to see the new members starting up with GT5P Demo (although I expected the boom to be with GT5 or GT5P).

All's good! :cheers:

Based on what I've seen in the thread so far, I'd say 720P is the way to go. 👍
 
I didn't think it was flaming; I really do think it looks horrible. PD can do better than this! Look at GTHD!

Some of you must really have great looking images and video quality! Why don't I! :grumpy: :(

I guess I should change the title of the thread.
 
nafai23
And also.....this is not 1920x1200(1080P) so PD.....do not say it anymore. It is also not 60fps......do you not say it anymore.
Click to expand...
I don't even know what that means. 1920x1200 would be 1200p. 1080p is defined as 1920x1080. I haven't looked in-game yet, but I did confirm last night that the dashboard/garage/showroom runs at true 1920x1080.

According to Quaz on Beyond3D, GT5P runs in-game at 1280x1080 with 2x MSAA. Not quite "true" 1080, but I wonder how YOU came up with the fact that it wasn't 1080p, since I doubt anyone here goes to the lengths to determine native resolution that Quaz does.

And if it doesn't run at 60fps, what does it run at? Because it sure as hell looks like 60fps to me.
 
Sylvania 32'' LCD HD TV

HDMI Cable

60 Gig PS3

- Smearing images, ugly white outlines around the edges of the car, very noticable. I'm a huge GT fan boy, and this even disappointed me to the point where I wouldn't even buy this game if they didn't fix it. Yeah, it's that bad. I'm beyond mad.

For the record, i'm 80% positive that this game runs at 30fps, try comparing a 60fps game like COD4 to a game like this, it's easy to tell a difference.
 
nafai23
And also.....this is not 1920x1200(1080P) so PD.....do not say it anymore. It is also not 60fps......do you not say it anymore.
Click to expand...
Technically it is 1080p, and the frame rate is 60 fps (although like most games, especially games at 60fps, the frame rates are not constant).

To check the resolution output of any game or video on the PS3, first be sure to set your PS3 to output all available resolutions that your TV supports (obviously a TV that can't even accept higher resolutions won't do you any good as far as checking the original resolution of a game or video), and turn off any video scaling on the PS3. Then once the game starts, click on the "Info" or "Display" button on your TV's remote, and most if not all new displays will tell you the incoming resolution.

I say technically, because one thing that I find many people do not understand about "1080p" video is that they are not all created equally. In fact, if you were to display a solid screen of blue on a 1920x1080 display it would look exactly the same as it would on a 720x480 display, and the same as seen on a 1x1 display. :D

The point is, just because a film or game has the resolution available to it, doesn't mean it is going to always "fill it up" with all that extra detail. This is why movies in 1080p look sooooo much more detailed than games. It’s because film captures far more detail than most developers would ever have the time or money to put into their games... although that is at least improving as technology improves and costs go down.

In addition, even in film, the reason you can also see differences in quality have to do with the fact that film and video can and often does go through a laborious process and pathways before it finally is displayed in the theaters and on your TV. Along these paths, film and video quality can be significantly damaged... and why you can see big differences in picture quality between films in the theaters, videos on DVD, TV, Internet, etc.

This in some ways is the same with games, and why one game in 720p (like Resistance: Fall of Man) might actually look better than a 1080p game (like flOw). In the examples given, it's not because flOw is poorly mastered at 1080p (although there are cases like that) but because there is soooo little fine detail in the game to begin with, so the higher resolution mostly goes unused... although to be fair to flOw, in 1080p, it does look smoother, as having twice as much resolution allows shapes and edges to be smoother, and giving them a more defined and accurate shape. 👍
 
I got the not 1080P from that same source......1280x1080 from quaz...requires scaling....scaling makes things flicker more.
I do not think it is cool for PD to say 1080p....1280x1080 is not 1080P. They should say HD or something. Who cares about the garage. It looks great but it is not gameplay and I would hope they could do in 1920x1200 and it looks different. No flicker....
As far as 60fps....
I took the last little turn before the finish on the track in the sad little daihatsu :) (i like it)
There was 4 cars right in front of me. As I turned the four cars passed in front of my view at the same time. The game easily dipped below the human eye 24fps. It stuttered so bad I oversteered and went off the track.
Also when this happens the v sync goes off and it looks like the top half of the car moves first and then the bottom half.
In PD's defense, the bright track and too dark cockpit and too light outside bring out these flaws on my TV.
I have never driven a car during the day and had a black unviewable cockpit 60 percent of the time.

Now all this maybe be because of a setup or tv issue....I hope it is. I tried 720P. Reduced the flicker in the distance and also on the backs of the cars I got black scrolling diagonal lines....those were less.
I guess with this game I expected that crystal clear, maybe less detailed tracks, but crystal 1080p gameplay. GTHD hinted at this and I assumed GT5P would take this further. I want to see a car 2-3 seconds in front of me that looks like a car. Not a blob of white shimmery lines. Up close the cars are terrific.

Anyway...I hope it is my setup and not the game.

Jedi2016
I don't even know what that means. 1920x1200 would be 1200p. 1080p is defined as 1920x1080. I haven't looked in-game yet, but I did confirm last night that the dashboard/garage/showroom runs at true 1920x1080.

According to Quaz on Beyond3D, GT5P runs in-game at 1280x1080 with 2x MSAA. Not quite "true" 1080, but I wonder how YOU came up with the fact that it wasn't 1080p, since I doubt anyone here goes to the lengths to determine native resolution that Quaz does.

And if it doesn't run at 60fps, what does it run at? Because it sure as hell looks like 60fps to me.
Click to expand...
 
Kent
:lol:
Awefully easy to say no flaming when you've gotten your flame out in the title of the thread. I'd think a more appropriate title would be "How does the GT5P Demo look on your TV?"
Click to expand...
100% agreed.




Solid Lifters
I didn't think it was flaming; I really do think it looks horrible. PD can do better than this! Look at GTHD!
Click to expand...
Could be better and looking horrible are two entirely different things though. When I read someone saying a game looks "horrible"... I certainly do not conjure up visions of a game that looks anything like the GT5:P demo. While I don't feel that way, perhaps "disappointing" would be a far more accurate description. I'd reserve using the word "horrible" for when an image is practically unwatchable... otherwise you might find some people won't take your assessments and opinions very seriously.


Solid Lifters
Some of you must really have great looking images and video quality! Why don't I! :grumpy: :(
Click to expand...
Yes, the images are excellent, but they could certainly be better... which I’m sure I've said that before. ;)


I guess I should change the title of the thread.
Click to expand...
Yes, even The "I have GT5P image quality issues!" Thread, is certainly more appropriate than before, but I still don't think it is very accurate (not based on what I've seen, but on what you have asked to be discussed in this thread), unless of course you have changed your mind, and now you only want people who are having "image quality issues" with GT5:P to post here.


I'm curious, was there something about the title that Kent suggested, "How does the GT5P Demo look on your TV?", that you objected to?

Because if not, it would appear to be the most accurate assessment of the intent of this thread, and thus make for a much better thread title, right? ... and a good deal less attarctive title for those looking to get into a flame war... which you make clear you do not want... so that would be yet another reason to go with Kent's suggestion for a new title to this thread.
 
Brand and Model # of TV set Daewoo "wish I knew" 21" CRT

Display Resolution of The Set (1080p, 1080i, etc.) 576i PAL

Resolution Output Setting of PS3 576i PAL

Connection Type (HDMI, Component, etc.) The thing in which there are three cables connected to a SCART adapter, I guess it's component

What Country Are You In? Finland

And my problem is, the damn thing is all black and white. Is it just PAL hardware and NTSC software not wanting to play nice ot what?
 
Greycap
Brand and Model # of TV set Daewoo "wish I knew" 21" CRT

Display Resolution of The Set (1080p, 1080i, etc.) ? PAL

Resolution Output Setting of PS3 ? PAL

Connection Type (HDMI, Component, etc.) The thing in which there are three cables connected to a SCART adapter, I guess it's component

What Country Are You In? Finland

And my problem is, the damn thing is all black and white. Is it just PAL hardware and NTSC software not wanting to play nice ot what?
Click to expand...

Yep, also black & white at my brothers PS3 / TV ?? How to solve?



Brand and Model # of TV set Aristona 55cm CRT

Display Resolution of The Set (1080p, 1080i, etc.) 576i PAL

Resolution Output Setting of PS3 576i PAL

Connection Type (HDMI, Component, etc.) The thing in which there are three cables connected to a SCART adapter, I guess it's component

What Country Are You In? NL
 
Samsung 32" LCD HDTV

HDMI

720p or 1080i

Problem: When your picking cars and the colour changing screen comes up - the Lexus especially moves around very slowly and the car is very jaggy. gameplay is fine
 
Digital Nitrate
I'm curious, was there something about the title that Kent suggested, "How does the GT5P Demo look on your TV?", that you objected to?
Click to expand...
I'm sure my suggestion of "How does the GT5P demo look on your TV?" was too objective without any negative or positive connotations. Something tells me that is not what the goal was for the thread title. :rolleyes:
 
go ahead and laugh.
my tv is a 14 inch philips sd tv
its resolution is 571i or something
i live in finland

well everything is horribly jaggied and the edges of the cars are like saws. BIG SAWS. the cars flicker nastily and they are jaggied. is there a way to make it look a bit sharper on a sd tv. maybe by changing my tv settings?
even with all those problems i think the game looks amazing:)
 
Sharp LCD X1DE 37
1080
1080
HDMI
Portugal

I get jittering in the showroom and sometimes what seems to be a drop of resolution during races; also the reflexion of light on the cars during replay looks awfull, especially with silver / white cars and that sort of blurry colouring around the cars roof looks much worse than GTHD.
I only played about 1 hour last night (nearly 4 hours to download!) maybe I can solve some of these issues with my tv settings. Could it be that some of these problems have to do with it being a Japanese game version?

RUI
 
Solid Lifters
THIS IS NOT A FLAME THREAD! Please, no childish flame wars.

For The Purpose of Supporting PD With Helpful Input


It looks like many of us are having quality issues with some of the images of GT5 Prologue. In an effort to help support PD with what appears to be a problem, I've started this thread for potential valuable input that just might help PD with this problem.

So, please post the following information along with what specific problems you are seeing:


  • Brand and Model # of TV set

  • Display Resolution of The Set (1080p, 1080i, etc.)

  • Resolution Output Setting of PS3

  • Connection Type (HDMI, Component, etc.)

  • What Country Are You In?


I'll go first...

Sony Bravia KDL46XBR3 LCD HDTV

1080p

1080p

HDMI

USA

A lot of jaggies and smeared images. Shadows have horizontal scan lines and 'line crawl'.
Click to expand...



The shadows are working as intended. They are simply low resolution, so they looked jagged compared to evrything else.
The scanlines are cause because of loss of Vsync, instead of just dropping frames the game losses Vsync.
(i do not know if frame loss is worse at 1080p, since i run at 720p, it's there at 720p, but i've read it's worse at 1080p.)

I don't think the shadows will get any better than they are, since PD is pushing the RSX to it's limits because they chose to run at 1080p native, and the the graphic compromises are made to fit that resolution.

You'll also notice that the shadows are only present in the car you drive, there's simply not enough bandiwdth left for shadows in all the cars and the same is apparently true for higher resolution shadows.

This is why i've stated in the past that at 720p, even though PD would sacrifice something, what they'd get in return would be more shaders, AA on the cars and higher resolution shadows that are possibly in all the cars.
The lower resolution would be trivial compared to the gains they could get with using that extra bandiwdth where they're hurting.

So anyway, these graphic anomalies you see aren't directly linked with your conections to your set.

the frame rate issue will probably be worked out in the end by PD, as for the shadows i'm not so sure. if they decide to stick to 1080p i really doubt they can spare any more bandiwdth to make them look nicer.
I hope i'm wrong about that, but i wish in the end sony would stop pressuring PD and let them just drop 1080p alltogether so they can VASTLY improve the graphic engine at a lower res.

(yeah, i'm just guessing that it's Sony's fault that they went the 1080p route, since they want to differentiate the PS3 from the 360.)

Bungie didn't get any pressure from MS when they decided to run halo 3 at like 680p instead of 720p, because the gain in PQ outweighed the few pixels they were gonna sacrifice by far.
The same would be true for PD if they decided to go 720p, or even a little below that resolution to fully exploit all the effects that i know the RSX can do.

Of course there's always going to be people that would think that higher res would be better... and it is, just not when you have to sacrifice so much for it, and this is a case of that, just ask yourself this question:

GT1 at 8000x5000? or GT4 at 720p? which one looks better?

Sure, it's not a completley proper analogy but you get the idea of the kind of sacrifices made :P
 

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