- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
The Illuminati and other Conspiracy Theories thread
- Thread starter Ryanswannell
- 1,373 comments
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- 716
There is no "sucking out" only different amount of pressure. The pressure in the combustion chamber is higher than ambient. This means that air will expand in all directions in the chamber, however there is only one way out, the nozzle.
All the walls of the chamber and nozzle feel a force. This is the same force a hypothetical wall would feel if placed over the nozzle opening. Obviously in a functional rocket, there is no wall covering the nozzle, so there is a force imbalance which causes the rocket to accelerate.
This same imbalance is what causes the air to exit the rocket, not the "suction" of space.
I don't have anything to ad or try to debate, I know how a rocket work and what vacuum is and when the pressure is equalizing if you open a hatch in a space craft you will experience it as the vacuum is sucking, have you vacuum packaged something sometimes? I still am leaning to the flat earther side about not being able to change course in space. it seems more fun and remember, it is not the chamber it self that is rotating in space it is only the nozzle when changing the course up there, what I have seen so far.
What do you think about his claims that satellites should be boiling hot up there?
- 716
No you did not get me, a rocket uses the force/pressure to push it against the rocket it self. But in space what I know they seem not to use any rockets to change course, what I have seen is that they are using nozzles that let out a jet stream of compressed air/gas and that simply can not work in space as the stream cant push against anything in an empty vacuum.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
- 716
no, there is to little matter up there for transmitting the heat, like from particle to particle, but an object such as iss should be getting warm and people in there should be hot at least. I know that they have cooling systems in their suits but the space station it self should be hot. or at least it is how I think it is.
Like I said, it is my entertainment for now but that what you have put forward is to simple to deflect, I still want have it as my entertainment so do not destroy it by asking something harder
Like I said, it is my entertainment for now but that what you have put forward is to simple to deflect, I still want have it as my entertainment so do not destroy it by asking something harder
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Seriously you perpetuating this nonsense doesn't do anyone any good. There is a pressure difference, quite simple.
no, there is to little matter up there for transmitting the heat, like from particle to particle, but an object such as iss should be getting warm and people in there should be hot at least. I know that they have cooling systems in their suits but the space station it self should be hot. or at least it is how I think it is.
Like I said, it is my entertainment for now but that what you have put forward is to simple to deflect, I still want have it as my entertainment so do not destroy it by asking something harder
How, what thermal convection is taking place between Space and the ISS? I'll save you the time and "fun" there isn't one. Space is an insulator in and of itself to begin with. Thus the next question...
Do you know the radiation heat transfer effects on the ISS, or how it's mitigated to not heat up the system?
Also how is it simple to deflect, you asked why the void of space isn't heating up, I gave you the most pure of answers one could give in this respect. Second Law of thermo or better yet read the Kelvin-Plank statement every physicist or engineer who deals with thermo learns. It's quite simple.
This isn't about entertainment, not sure why you're using science and proven information that you could easily read up on as a joke.
- 23,800
- Philippines
I will remember this the next time I open a balloon and the rubber skin does not fly away as the gases get "sucked out" the other end.
Honestly... if you believe that no heat transfer can occur, why are you worried about heat?
Heat absorbed by radiation can also be released by radiation.
Spacecraft are typically painted reflective white or silver, and are well-insulated, so heat build-up occurs very slowly. Beyond that, spacecraft use radiators. Just like your car. And no, radiators do not need flowing air to cool them off. They release heat by... radiating it into the space station's shadow.
Do note... not all those big fancy fins on the ISS are solar panels.
Like I said, it is my entertainment for now but that what you have put forward is to simple to deflect, I still want have it as my entertainment so do not destroy it by asking something harder
It is also entertaining to pretend cars run on water, but we both know that's not true, right?
If you'd like some entertainment, I'd suggest studying physics. Physics can be entertaining.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
- 716
wha?I have not asked about why space does not heat up, it is vacuum after all...
Like we all are agreeing on is that no heat exchange cant occur in vacuum. But the radiation is a thing, iss is after all built by different alloys that do transfer heat between themselves. Even if the radiators are in the shadow of the iss it is still a vacuum, right? So how does the heat dissipate once it have accumulated back to the vacuum as radiation fast enouhg? Maybe I have missed something here?
The radiators are in the shadow of the iss but it means it only hinders the radiators to warm up as the rest of the station due to the radiation. The iss still gets warmer by the radiation which in turn/naturally transfer the heat the radiators. surly the station is isolated to reflect the radiation as much as possible but it still should be hot as hell in there. Like I said maybe I have missed something. I guess it is totally doable but, it is after all over 1000C up there if heat transfer occur. I do not say that I am a expert but feels kind of extreme if we can shield particles from becoming so warm. 100c or something like that in a microwave ok... but radiation that can heat up objects to 1000c+?
I still have a hard time imagine someone change direction by ex blowing or farting in space. It has to be like a rocket at least for it to work. Ie for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and how do this happen in space when just farting without the fart even pushing against something? I still cant think about
just think about it...
Like we all are agreeing on is that no heat exchange cant occur in vacuum. But the radiation is a thing, iss is after all built by different alloys that do transfer heat between themselves. Even if the radiators are in the shadow of the iss it is still a vacuum, right? So how does the heat dissipate once it have accumulated back to the vacuum as radiation fast enouhg? Maybe I have missed something here?
The radiators are in the shadow of the iss but it means it only hinders the radiators to warm up as the rest of the station due to the radiation. The iss still gets warmer by the radiation which in turn/naturally transfer the heat the radiators. surly the station is isolated to reflect the radiation as much as possible but it still should be hot as hell in there. Like I said maybe I have missed something. I guess it is totally doable but, it is after all over 1000C up there if heat transfer occur. I do not say that I am a expert but feels kind of extreme if we can shield particles from becoming so warm. 100c or something like that in a microwave ok... but radiation that can heat up objects to 1000c+?
I still have a hard time imagine someone change direction by ex blowing or farting in space. It has to be like a rocket at least for it to work. Ie for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and how do this happen in space when just farting without the fart even pushing against something? I still cant think about
just think about it...
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
We told you what you missed, you keep ignoring it and rehashing your questions. Aluminum mylar is a damn good material for controlling heat transfer via radiation and while at the same time controlling conduction with in the system. Once again space is probably best thought of as a heat sink, radiators have nothing absolutely nothing to do with the heat transfer term known as radiation.
Where did you get the 1000 C term from? Also it's not extreme, perhaps read up on some of the engineering marvels earthbound before you look to those in space, and you'll see we've found plenty of ways to do things in extreme conditions with good results on a consistent basis.
There is no vacuum like you think, if something goes from higher pressure to zero pressure what do you think happens? What would be the force coefficient or even pressure coefficient in this scenario?
Where did you get the 1000 C term from? Also it's not extreme, perhaps read up on some of the engineering marvels earthbound before you look to those in space, and you'll see we've found plenty of ways to do things in extreme conditions with good results on a consistent basis.
There is no vacuum like you think, if something goes from higher pressure to zero pressure what do you think happens? What would be the force coefficient or even pressure coefficient in this scenario?
- 23,800
- Philippines
You do know how vacuum flasks work, right? And why they're great insulators?
Heat does not "accumulate" in the vacuum. The heat radiation moves through it. It is not stationary. For heat to stay stationary in a vacuum, it has to be inside of something... like... say... gas particles. If you have enough gas particles so that heat accumulation around the station is a problem, then the station isn't in a vacuum.
The Earth is an even worse radiator than the ISS. It's being hit by a whole lot more solar radiation than the ISS, and greenhouse gases keep heat inside the atmosphere at night, on the dark side.
Now, tell me: Is it a thousand degrees down here? Honest answer, please.
In contrast, in the ISS, heat is actively pumped into the heat exchangers, and then the coolant is shuffled to the radiators to cool down. It would be educational to read up on how air-conditioning and refrigeration works, and how active coolant pumps allow you to keep the interior cooler than the air the radiator/heat exchanger is sitting in.
I still have a hard time imagine someone change direction by ex blowing or farting in space. It has to be like a rocket at least for it to work. Ie for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and how do this happen in space when just farting without the fart even pushing against something? I still cant think about
just think about it...
Do you understand equilibrium? Center of mass? This is not just physics, but the most basic of physics you are questioning.
Action-reaction does not require a medium. All it requires is two objects. If one pushes off against the other, they move apart.
It's that simple.
And since the spacecraft is in vacuum, there's no air to slow it down... so that "fart" doesn't need to move it quickly to overcome friction... it just needs to start it moving.
Ion drives are even weaker than these "farts"... and they have the potential to take our probes to the outer reaches of the solar system.
It's like pushing someone while ice skating, sending you in the opposite direction with equal force. The compressed air pushes air out of the nozzle (action). That's also why things get "sucked" into space, because the internal pressure pushes things out. The spacecraft shoves itself off of the air it releases (reaction).I still have a hard time imagine someone change direction by ex blowing or farting in space. It has to be like a rocket at least for it to work. Ie for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and how do this happen in space when just farting without the fart even pushing against something? I still cant think about
just think about it...
- 716
No LMSCorvetteGT you have not answered anything and I have not ignored anything.
But like I said I am not an expert but I am not a dummy either, studied engineering from 99-2006. I know the big picture about our world but when something like this is making its way on the internets you cant ignore it, to new and interesting
That is why I want your thoughts about, I dont ask actually, rather I want you to think for yourself to see if it sound simple and logically. If I would really need an answerer then I would just open up my books
Just think for a moment, there is a vacuum/emptiness around you and you blow with your mouth. Would it be enough for you to change direction or not? How I am thinking now is that the air you are blowing out is just released as it does not push against you or a another object but away from you. You are just realising air into the emptiness. Of course I am questioning "basic science" that is the point with stuff like this. After all it is a conspiracy thingy. Like I said If I wanted to not think I would just read on in my books but this is more like, what if it is like this up there.
And then we have Iss or anything else up there, how does it not get overheated not get overheated as the particles in the iss will transfer heat to each other but cant dissipate the heat because of the vacuum. Just like a thermos, you said it used radiation before to cool down.
What happens on earth is totally different thing, the earth is massive full of particles and have atmosphere to reflect the radiations back to the ground.
below is just a little link from wikipedia about temps in the thermosphere and why it is not that warm but a big object will probably heat up over there and the cooling in my mind should not be enough to dissipate the heat away from the iss.
The thermosphere is the layer of the Earth's atmosphere directly above the mesosphere and directly below the exosphere. Within this layer of the atmosphere, ultraviolet radiation causes photoionization/photodissociation of molecules, creating ions in the ionosphere. Taking its name from the Greek θερμός (pronounced thermos) meaning heat, the thermosphere begins about 85 kilometres (53 mi) above the Earth.[1] At these high altitudes, the residual atmospheric gases sort into strata according to molecular mass (see turbosphere). Thermospheric temperatures increase with altitude due to absorption of highly energetic solar radiation. Temperatures are highly dependent on solar activity, and can rise to 2,000 °C (3,630 °F). Radiation causes the atmosphere particles in this layer to become electrically charged (see ionosphere), enabling radio waves to be refracted and thus be received beyond the horizon. In the exosphere, beginning at 500 to 1,000 kilometres (310 to 620 mi) above the Earth's surface, the atmosphere turns into space.
The highly diluted gas in this layer can reach 2,500 °C (4,530 °F) during the day. Even though the temperature is so high, one would not feel warm in the thermosphere, because it is so near vacuum that there is not enough contact with the few atoms of gas to transfer much heat. A normal thermometer might be significantly below 0 °C (32 °F), at least at night, because the energy lost by thermal radiation would exceed the energy acquired from the atmospheric gas by direct contact. In the anacoustic zone above 160 kilometres (99 mi), the density is so low that molecular interactions are too infrequent to permit the transmission of sound.
The dynamics of the thermosphere are dominated by atmospheric tides, which are driven by the very significant diurnal heating. Atmospheric waves dissipate above this level because of collisions between the neutral gas and the ionospheric plasma.
The International Space Station orbits the Earth within the middle of the thermosphere, between 330 and 435 kilometres (205 and 270 mi) (decaying by 2 km/month and raised by periodic reboosts), whereas the Gravity Field and Steady-State Ocean Circulation Explorer satellite at 260 kilometres (160 mi) utilized winglets[2] and an innovative ion engine to maintain a stable orientation and orbit.[3]
But like I said I am not an expert but I am not a dummy either, studied engineering from 99-2006. I know the big picture about our world but when something like this is making its way on the internets you cant ignore it, to new and interesting
That is why I want your thoughts about, I dont ask actually, rather I want you to think for yourself to see if it sound simple and logically. If I would really need an answerer then I would just open up my books
Just think for a moment, there is a vacuum/emptiness around you and you blow with your mouth. Would it be enough for you to change direction or not? How I am thinking now is that the air you are blowing out is just released as it does not push against you or a another object but away from you. You are just realising air into the emptiness. Of course I am questioning "basic science" that is the point with stuff like this. After all it is a conspiracy thingy. Like I said If I wanted to not think I would just read on in my books but this is more like, what if it is like this up there.
And then we have Iss or anything else up there, how does it not get overheated not get overheated as the particles in the iss will transfer heat to each other but cant dissipate the heat because of the vacuum. Just like a thermos, you said it used radiation before to cool down.
What happens on earth is totally different thing, the earth is massive full of particles and have atmosphere to reflect the radiations back to the ground.
below is just a little link from wikipedia about temps in the thermosphere and why it is not that warm but a big object will probably heat up over there and the cooling in my mind should not be enough to dissipate the heat away from the iss.
The thermosphere is the layer of the Earth's atmosphere directly above the mesosphere and directly below the exosphere. Within this layer of the atmosphere, ultraviolet radiation causes photoionization/photodissociation of molecules, creating ions in the ionosphere. Taking its name from the Greek θερμός (pronounced thermos) meaning heat, the thermosphere begins about 85 kilometres (53 mi) above the Earth.[1] At these high altitudes, the residual atmospheric gases sort into strata according to molecular mass (see turbosphere). Thermospheric temperatures increase with altitude due to absorption of highly energetic solar radiation. Temperatures are highly dependent on solar activity, and can rise to 2,000 °C (3,630 °F). Radiation causes the atmosphere particles in this layer to become electrically charged (see ionosphere), enabling radio waves to be refracted and thus be received beyond the horizon. In the exosphere, beginning at 500 to 1,000 kilometres (310 to 620 mi) above the Earth's surface, the atmosphere turns into space.
The highly diluted gas in this layer can reach 2,500 °C (4,530 °F) during the day. Even though the temperature is so high, one would not feel warm in the thermosphere, because it is so near vacuum that there is not enough contact with the few atoms of gas to transfer much heat. A normal thermometer might be significantly below 0 °C (32 °F), at least at night, because the energy lost by thermal radiation would exceed the energy acquired from the atmospheric gas by direct contact. In the anacoustic zone above 160 kilometres (99 mi), the density is so low that molecular interactions are too infrequent to permit the transmission of sound.
The dynamics of the thermosphere are dominated by atmospheric tides, which are driven by the very significant diurnal heating. Atmospheric waves dissipate above this level because of collisions between the neutral gas and the ionospheric plasma.
The International Space Station orbits the Earth within the middle of the thermosphere, between 330 and 435 kilometres (205 and 270 mi) (decaying by 2 km/month and raised by periodic reboosts), whereas the Gravity Field and Steady-State Ocean Circulation Explorer satellite at 260 kilometres (160 mi) utilized winglets[2] and an innovative ion engine to maintain a stable orientation and orbit.[3]
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- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
So how on Earth can you ask
?
You failed to specify whether or not one was in relative orbit, standing on an Earth plane... all basic stuff. Might I be so rude as to ask what level you studied engineering at?
As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to Wiki but you can't make it understand.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
Some animal rights activists organize and do destructive acts. Perhaps they would like to change the world - reorganize it in their image to suit their beliefs? Perhaps there is a strain of such authoritarian do-gooderism in all progressive and liberal belief systems? But these are not likely the Illuminati. Aren't the Illuminati more associated with reactionary beliefs in riches, power, stability, order and control of society?
- 31,701
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
- 4,076
- Tallinn
I had a couple of discussions with FE-guys on YouTube. They asked me to build a model of Earth. (even gave me instructions on how to do that- get a tennis ball, dip in the water, then spin it 100.000+ km/h and see if the water will stay on it.) I agreed and said that the Earth makes a full turn in 24 hours, so my ball will make one turn in 24 hours. But sadly they didn't agree to build a working model of their Earth with me. And then asked me to send a camera in to space and shoot photos. It's all talk, no work for them it seems.
- 716
I actually think that if people do not think for them selves then they are just ignorant. They just repeat what they have learned in school without questioning anything. Flat earth thingy have at least given me a new way to look at things and it is refreshing. Like I said I am not a flat earther (not yet )because I like the universe model we have been thought but everyone needs just stop for a moment and realise that there is to much gaps in the theory and through mathematics they tell a fairy story to satisfy themselves. I read in a science paper they are unsure that big bang actually happened, ie from nothing that is, and that we may be living in a black hole and that is why the universe is expansing. To be fair we know nothing
Of course Flat earth is a conspiracy and maybe i am in the middle of going brain washed but it is fun as you are forced to look at it from a viewpoint I have never ever imagined before.
Flat earth seems simply, you live on a disc with a sun and moon circulating above like a clockwork, there is no gravity, it is density of a object that dictate if it will fall or rise up to the sky like gases. Space does not exist like space agencies want us to believe, we seem to not have real photographies of any planets, they are all composite/cgi. we have only two real pictures of earth form space ant it is one from 197x something and one that got taken a couple of years ago. and when those flat earther do investigate them they seems to be manipulated. The horizon thing is also a thing I found interesting as you can apparently see object farther away than what should be possible on a round sphere. And the thing I my self never thought about, why do I not see any curvature even though I fly with my friend a lot. A lot of movies from way back show flat horizon even waaaay up, even higher then the redbull jump and yet the redbull jump footage show extreme curvature but not the old clips. Makes you think, even if this is just bogus I cant say I dont enjoy myself
I think I already wrote what level from high school to collage/university. First I became industrial robot/cnc machine designer and then car designer. But what have this have to do about me? I simply saying that you should think for a moment and you say I am stupid? haha the old look down on every one that that share the same paradigm. By the way I have to repeat myself, I am a globe head still but this seems waaay more fun, especially when you combine this with myths/religion and such.
)because I like the universe model we have been thought but everyone needs just stop for a moment and realise that there is to much gaps in the theory and through mathematics they tell a fairy story to satisfy themselves. I read in a science paper they are unsure that big bang actually happened, ie from nothing that is, and that we may be living in a black hole and that is why the universe is expansing. To be fair we know nothing Of course Flat earth is a conspiracy and maybe i am in the middle of going brain washed but it is fun as you are forced to look at it from a viewpoint I have never ever imagined before.
Flat earth seems simply, you live on a disc with a sun and moon circulating above like a clockwork, there is no gravity, it is density of a object that dictate if it will fall or rise up to the sky like gases. Space does not exist like space agencies want us to believe, we seem to not have real photographies of any planets, they are all composite/cgi. we have only two real pictures of earth form space ant it is one from 197x something and one that got taken a couple of years ago. and when those flat earther do investigate them they seems to be manipulated. The horizon thing is also a thing I found interesting as you can apparently see object farther away than what should be possible on a round sphere. And the thing I my self never thought about, why do I not see any curvature even though I fly with my friend a lot. A lot of movies from way back show flat horizon even waaaay up, even higher then the redbull jump and yet the redbull jump footage show extreme curvature but not the old clips. Makes you think, even if this is just bogus I cant say I dont enjoy myself
I think I already wrote what level from high school to collage/university. First I became industrial robot/cnc machine designer and then car designer. But what have this have to do about me? I simply saying that you should think for a moment and you say I am stupid? haha the old look down on every one that that share the same paradigm. By the way I have to repeat myself, I am a globe head still but this seems waaay more fun, especially when you combine this with myths/religion and such.
- 31,701
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
- 4,076
- Tallinn
I actually think that if people do not think for them selves then they are just ignorant. They just repeat what they have learned in school without questioning anything. Flat earth thingy have at least given me a new way to look at things and it is refreshing. Like I said I am not a flat earther (not yet
Of course Flat earth is a conspiracy and maybe i am in the middle of going brain washed but it is fun as you are forced to look at it from a viewpoint I have never ever imagined before.
Flat earth seems simply, you live on a disc with a sun and moon circulating above like a clockwork, there is no gravity, it is density of a object that dictate if it will fall or rise up to the sky like gases. Space does not exist like space agencies want us to believe, we seem to not have real photographies of any planets, they are all composite/cgi. we have only two real pictures of earth form space ant it is one from 197x something and one that got taken a couple of years ago. and when those flat earther do investigate them they seems to be manipulated. The horizon thing is also a thing I found interesting as you can apparently see object farther away than what should be possible on a round sphere. And the thing I my self never thought about, why do I not see any curvature even though I fly with my friend a lot. A lot of movies from way back show flat horizon even waaaay up, even higher then the redbull jump and yet the redbull jump footage show extreme curvature but not the old clips. Makes you think, even if this is just bogus I cant say I dont enjoy myself
I think I already wrote what level from high school to collage/university. First I became industrial robot/cnc machine designer and then car designer. But what have this have to do about me? I simply saying that you should think for a moment and you say I am stupid? haha the old look down on every one that that share the same paradigm. By the way I have to repeat myself, I am a globe head still but this seems waaay more fun, especially when you combine this with myths/religion and such.
It may seem fun, but come on, there's just no facts that confirm the flat-Earth, it's just made up words. Some even go further and invent the cell-Earth: where a huge globe hosts cells (like a bee hive) and every cell is a flat-world. One of the cells is our world. They invent 3-7 suns to explain the seasons. They say that the sun is only 6500 kilometers above, but somehow it still sets below the horisont, even though they say the sun just disappears due to perspective. But the sun doesn't change in shape and size when it sets.
FE-guys seem to imagine our planet as a very small marble. But it's huge. That's why you won't see a decent curve even on a 30 km altitude. (Google earth is a good model by the way. You can rise your viewpoint and then tilt and look at the horisont.)
RedBull jump was filmed with a fish-eye lens. And no, the lens is not made to lie about the shape of the planet, it's made to capture much more stuff that will not be possible with a standard lens. It has a bigger view angle.
- 7,620
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
How do you know what people are doing though? Can certain answers only be copied from a text book? If so, which ones?
Flat earth thingy have at least given me a new way to look at things and it is refreshing. Like I said I am not a flat earther (not yet
If no one admitted to the gaps in science, research would stop completely. Everyone knows that their are gaps. That they exist doesn't mean that everything is uncertain though.
Of course Flat earth is a conspiracy and maybe i am in the middle of going brain washed but it is fun as you are forced to look at it from a viewpoint I have never ever imagined before.
Flat earth seems simply, you live on a disc with a sun and moon circulating above like a clockwork, there is no gravity, it is density of a object that dictate if it will fall or rise up to the sky like gases. Space does not exist like space agencies want us to believe, we seem to not have real photographies of any planets, they are all composite/cgi. we have only two real pictures of earth form space ant it is one from 197x something and one that got taken a couple of years ago. and when those flat earther do investigate them they seems to be manipulated. The horizon thing is also a thing I found interesting as you can apparently see object farther away than what should be possible on a round sphere. And the thing I my self never thought about, why do I not see any curvature even though I fly with my friend a lot. A lot of movies from way back show flat horizon even waaaay up, even higher then the redbull jump and yet the redbull jump footage show extreme curvature but not the old clips. Makes you think, even if this is just bogus I cant say I dont enjoy myself
What Flat Earth misses is providing a reason to believe it. You can come up with any kind of arrangement for the world, but if that arrangement doesn't fit reality, it's worthless. If FE wants to be taken seriously, they need to ditch the current understanding of physics and use their own models and then in addition to that, they need to succeed technologically.
If flat earthers can get around limitations in our understanding with their model, then they are on to something. However at the moment, they seem to focus on repeating pseudoscience.
When it comes to taking an open mind to things, keep in mind that you don't need a counter theory at all. Just a hypothesis to test.
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