The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

[Bo]

If you watch the #3 in the back section, the short tails start to pull away from it slightly. They're all hitting the limiter as well.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

It doesn't have a "broken" issue, it has an issue in the fact it's gutless. The whole package has been designed terribly.

How can you see a car that's been specifically designed to be faster in a straight line, and that alone, to be working correctly if it's actually worse in a straight line?

Maybe you should drop howard an email then and show them how to build a winning LM car.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It doesn't have a "broken" issue, it has an issue in the fact it's gutless. The whole package has been designed terribly.

How can you see a car that's been specifically designed to be faster in a straight line, and that alone, to be working correctly if it's actually worse in a straight line?

A similar question of knowledge can be posed to you. How the hell do you know the car is not working properly after a short outing? Gutless isn't an aerodynamic measurement I'm afraid... However sector times say differently, you seem a bit eager to cash your chips on an Audi defeat when you might want to be a bit patient.

 

[Ninners]

They aren't hitting the limiter, I'm pretty sure from the display we saw they still had some revs left to rev to.

Even in quali they were revving higher changing through the gears than they were at the end of the straights which should show they're not hitting the limiter. Audi aren't that stupid.

 

[Jawehawk]

It must be so insanely frustraiting to close in on the car in front of you, only to lose all that time once you get on the straights. Every single lap

 

[Ninners]

Again the Audi being left for dead on the straights there.

 

[Bo]

Maybe you should drop howard an email then and show them how to build a winning LM car.

You could take the attitude down a peg.

In this case, it needs more power? It's pretty flipping obvious it's never going to survive at Le Mans.

A similar question of knowledge can be posed to you. How the hell do you know the car is not working properly after a short outing? Gutless isn't an aerodynamic measurement I'm afraid... However sector times say differently, you seem a bit eager to cash your chips on an Audi defeat when you might want to be a bit patient.

Because when a car's one sole purpose is being faster, and it's working against it, then there's an issue.

The two issues are:

It has no straightline speed because of the power unit they've chosen. It makes up all the time in the corners, and that clearly isn't working.

The car that should have an advantage is doing worse. It's not showing what it should be.

They aren't hitting the limiter, I'm pretty sure from the display we saw they still had some revs left to rev to.

Even in quali they were revving higher changing through the gears than they were at the end of the straights which should show they're not hitting the limiter. Audi aren't that stupid.

The top speed should make them look very, very closely at the way they've gone in terms of design.

Toyota have played it safe this year, and it's paying off no end. I never thought i'd say this, but Audi have made a poor decision, and they seem to be getting nowhere.

 

[Ninners]

Probably due to their 2MJ Hybrid System.

 

[Bo]

Probably due to their 2MJ Hybrid System.

They must have had very good reason behind it, and huge confidence in their choices, but I don't see why they chose cornering pace over top speed. It seems very un-Audi like.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

You could take the attitude down a peg.

In this case, it needs more power? It's pretty flipping obvious it's never going to survive at Le Mans.


Because when a car's one sole purpose is being faster, and it's working against it, then there's an issue.

The two issues are:

It has no straightline speed because of the power unit they've chosen. It makes up all the time in the corners, and that clearly isn't working.

The car that should have an advantage is doing worse. It's not showing what it should be.


The top speed should make them look very, very closely at the way they've gone in terms of design.

Toyota have played it safe this year, and it's paying off no end. I never thought i'd say this, but Audi have made a poor decision, and they seem to be getting nowhere.

There's no attitude at all you clearly feel you know better than Audi but can't explain how it works. Top speed isn't all about power you also need to take into account gearing, drive ratios and most importantly aero dynamics which i think i'm pretty confident you really have no idea about. Happy to be proved wrong.

 

[Bo]

I clearly know that the car is crap in a straight line, because everybody knows it.

 

[Ninners]

Link please. Thanks.

PM sent.

 

[Jawehawk]

Everyone else having problems with the stream? Mine is just buffering.

 

[Bo]

Rebellion working their way up 👍

 

[Ninners]

FIAWEC Stream just buffering at the moment.

 

[Bo]

Audi's 1 and 2 haven't changed tyres, to jump Toyota.

Whilst the 3 could've slipped into the lead, they've decided to dive into the pits.

EDIT - Toyota monstering the Audi again. Must be hell as a driver.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Because when a car's one sole purpose is being faster, and it's working against it, then there's an issue.

No there isn't because you have no idea what the telemetry is and what their goal for today's race is, which could be numerous things. Knowing their program (which none of us do) is the only way you could know, and I'd say waiting until the end of the race is probably best before spouting off what is going on with such absolution.

The two issues are:

It has no straightline speed because of the power unit they've chosen. It makes up all the time in the corners, and that clearly isn't working.

It's making up all the time in the corner because it has better down force and mechanical grip there and so there is a trade off due to that when it comes to the straight line speed. I say this as a guess and a somewhat educated one.

The car that should have an advantage is doing worse. It's not showing what it should be.

To you it's not, that is a completely different aspect then what it is showing to the team. And thus such bias should be recognized by the maker of it (you) before making such declaration.

Also what is the second issue, I only see one and then you further expanding on it, not showing a second primary issue.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Please Mr. Camera Director, more on-board images of those TS040's and that glorious sounding V8!

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

I clearly know that the car is crap in a straight line, because everybody knows it.

I don't think its bad in a straight line so not everyone but i await to see your post with the trap speeds for it.

 

[Jawehawk]

So how did the Audi make it into 2nd? My stream was buffering for like 10 minutes...
Nvm. Glorious V8 power has put the Toyota into 2nd again.

 

[Ninners]

Audi didn't change tyres but Toyota and Porsche did.

 

[MHPALA]

Audi can always change the mapping on their engines. Just sayin'

 

[Ninners]

#3 did change tyres during their stop.

 

[Bo]

It's making up all the time in the corner because it has better down force and mechanical grip there and so there is a trade off due to that when it comes to the straight line speed. I say this as a guess and a somewhat educated one.

I'm sorry, do you really think i'm as big an idiot to not understand aerodynamics?

I'm going to give it a shot here and say the inside wheel arch cut outs are disrupting the #3's inside flow to the main plane from turbulent air, therefore the endplates are splitting held airflow from the longer tail, and the lower downforce rear wing is therefore giving no lateral grip. The disrupted inside flow and larger endplate fitments mean the air can't leave the car in as clean a way as it wants to, therefore meaning any supposed big top speed gain isn't showing as much as it should.

I don't think its bad in a straight line so not everyone but i await to see your post with the trap speeds for it.

The low downforce Toyotas are able to corner faster, and with more stability than the high downforce Audis. I that isn't a slow car, I await to see what is.

Anyway, here's some proof if you want it:

There is a considerable difference in maximum speeds between the LMP1 cars here at Spa. The No. 14 Porsche 919 Hybrid was fastest in the speed traps with a top speed of 311.2 km/h. The two Toyota TS040s and the second Porsche all topped at 308.6 km/h. The long-tail version of the Audi was fifth fastest with a top speed of 302.5; the two regular cars only managed 288.0 and 285.7 km/h. At Silverstone the two Audis were 30 km/h off the pace in the speed traps.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I'm not sure if it was worth it for Audi not to change tyres as they are dropping behind again. We'll have to wait and see, though. I'm so exited with Buemi in that #8. He's gotten so fast since his first Le Mans in 2012, just an all-round fantastic driver!

 

[Bo]

A Ferrari wants to try 3 wheeling.

EDIT -

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Top Speeds


3 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H Marco BONANOMI 293.5 28 Free Practice 1
14 Porsche Team Porsche 919 Hybrid LMP1 - H Neel JANI 288.8 33 Free Practice 1
7 Toyota Racing Toyota TS 040 - Hybrid LMP1 - H Kazuki NAKAJIMA 287.2 26 Free Practice 1
1 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H Loïc DUVAL 284.2 30 Free Practice 1
20 Porsche Team Porsche 919 Hybrid LMP1 - H Mark WEBBER 279.1 39 Free Practice 1
8 Toyota Racing Toyota TS 040 - Hybrid LMP1 - H Nicolas LAPIERRE 278.4 38 Free Practice 1
2 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H Marcel FÄSSLER 273.4 6 Free Practice 1
12 Rebellion Racing Rebellion R-One - Toyota LMP1 - L Nick HEIDFELD 273.4 7 Free Practice 1
37 SMP Racing Oreca 03 - Nissan LMP2 Kirill LADYGIN 259.0 5 Free Practice 1
27 SMP Racing Oreca 03 - Nissan LMP2 Nicolas MINASSIAN 257.8 5 Free Practice 1
47 KCMG Oreca 03 - Nissan LMP2 Alexandre IMPERATORI 256.5 28 Free Practice 1
38 Jota Sport Zytek Z11SN - Nissan LMP2 Marc GENÉ 254.7 24 Free Practice 1
26 G-Drive Racing Morgan - Nissan LMP2 Julien CANAL 252.3 23 Free Practice 1
95 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Am Richie STANAWAY 251.2 26 Free Practice 1
51 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Pro Gianmaria BRUNI 249.4 32 Free Practice 1
97 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Pro Darren TURNER 249.4 11 Free Practice 1
92 Porsche Team Manthey Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Pro Frédéric MAKOWIECKI 248.8 22 Free Practice 1
98 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Am Pedro LAMY 248.8 14 Free Practice 1
99 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Pro Fernando REES 248.3 23 Free Practice 1
90 8 Star Motorsports Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Vicente POTOLICCHIO 247.1 29 Free Practice 1
61 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Luis PEREZ-COMPANC 245.5 20 Free Practice 1

Practice 2
14 Porsche Team Porsche 919 Hybrid LMP1 - H Marc LIEB 311.2 26 Free Practice 2
7 Toyota Racing Toyota TS 040 - Hybrid LMP1 - H Kazuki NAKAJIMA 308.6 40 Free Practice 2
8 Toyota Racing Toyota TS 040 - Hybrid LMP1 - H Anthony DAVIDSON 308.6 44 Free Practice 2
20 Porsche Team Porsche 919 Hybrid LMP1 - H Mark WEBBER 308.6 5 Free Practice 2
3 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H Marco BONANOMI 302.5 5 Free Practice 2
12 Rebellion Racing Rebellion R-One - Toyota LMP1 - L Nick HEIDFELD 294.3 12 Free Practice 2
1 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H Loïc DUVAL 288.0 11 Free Practice 2
2 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H André LOTTERER 285.7 25 Free Practice 2
27 SMP Racing Oreca 03 - Nissan LMP2 Nicolas MINASSIAN 272.7 5 Free Practice 2
26 G-Drive Racing Morgan - Nissan LMP2 Olivier PLA 271.4 14 Free Practice 2
37 SMP Racing Oreca 03 - Nissan LMP2 Kirill LADYGIN 270.0 4 Free Practice 2
47 KCMG Oreca 03 - Nissan LMP2 Richard BRADLEY 268.7 37 Free Practice 2
38 Jota Sport Zytek Z11SN - Nissan LMP2 Marc GENÉ 264.7 4 Free Practice 2
61 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Marco CIOCI 263.4 9 Free Practice 2
71 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Pro Davide RIGON 263.4 30 Free Practice 2
90 8 Star Motorsports Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Paolo RUBERTI 262.8 37 Free Practice 2
97 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Pro Stefan MÜCKE 262.8 9 Free Practice 2
98 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Am Paul DALLA LANA 262.8 25 Free Practice 2
81 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Andrea BERTOLINI 261.5 24 Free Practice 2
99 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Pro Fernando REES 261.5 9 Free Practice 2
51 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Pro Gianmaria BRUNI 260.9 26 Free Practice 2
88 Proton Competition Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Am Klaus BACHLER 260.9 32 Free Practice 2
91 Porsche Team Manthey Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Pro Patrick PILET 260.9 10 Free Practice 2
92 Porsche Team Manthey Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Pro Frédéric MAKOWIECKI 260.9 25 Free Practice 2
60 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Raffaele GIAMMARIA 260.2 35 Free Practice 2
95 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Am David HEINEMEIR HANSSON 259.6 8 Free Practice 2
75 Prospeed Competition Porsche 911 GT3 RSR LMGTE Am Emmanuel COLLARD 257.1 5 Free Practice 2
13 Rebellion Racing Rebellion R-One - Toyota LMP1 - L Andrea BELICCHI 231.3 3 Free Practice 1

fastest in p1 and 5 mph difference in practice 2 doesn't look that "crap".

 

[Ninners]

Was going to point out the #3 isn't that slow but mind you their drivers are not as fast as the #1 and #2 drivers are, but the S2 for the #3 is an issue.

 

[Bo]

fastest in p1 and 5 mph difference in practice 2 doesn't look that "crap".

The others were turned way down in practice 1:

There is a considerable difference in maximum speeds between the LMP1 cars here at Spa. The No. 14 Porsche 919 Hybrid was fastest in the speed traps with a top speed of 311.2 km/h. The two Toyota TS040s and the second Porsche all topped at 308.6 km/h. The long-tail version of the Audi was fifth fastest with a top speed of 302.5; the two regular cars only managed 288.0 and 285.7 km/h. At Silverstone the two Audis were 30 km/h off the pace in the speed traps.

In the end, it's race pace that matters, not who's holding back in practice. It's in full trim that they are struggling badly. They have lots of work to do before Le Mans!

 

[Ninners]

But remember the #3 is a test bed, it will be further refined for Le Mans and Audi should make a small improvement too.