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The Le Mans General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter arvin charles
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- Liverpool
- CARBOYXJR
I'd never say it has proved me wrong, because it hasn't. This is going well off topic now.
As I said this morning, whatever view somebody else has on what makes unreliable data will not overrule what I know is right.
No more arguments, please.
As I said this morning, whatever view somebody else has on what makes unreliable data will not overrule what I know is right.
No more arguments, please.
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- GTP_daan
Here we go again. No, you didn't. That's not what you said.
You made no such "one lap", "6 hour", distinction. You stated that the Audi was over 20km/h slower than the other low downforce cars.
If you are going to get into "heated discussions" over everything, make sure you type what you mean.
- 10,270
- Bonn
- GTAce
I can't remember RLM stating the low-drag car was 20kph slower, it was actually the opposite the whole time.
The Le Mans spec Audi had almost the same top speed as the Porsche and Toyota, but at the same time couldn't corner as good as the two. While the high downforce Audi was 20kph slower, but could catch up due to better cornering speed.
RLM constantly stated that, including talking about sector times.
Top speed itself isn't the issue when we look at Le Mans, but the Audis could lose a lot of time at Mulsanne, Indianapolis/Arnage and the Porsche Curves, which is crucial, especially in traffic.
By the way: The speed difference between the LM versions and the not-LM R18s was just as big as the difference between the same R18s and the Porsche GTE Pro. I never thought that the low-drag package would have such a huge impact.
The Le Mans spec Audi had almost the same top speed as the Porsche and Toyota, but at the same time couldn't corner as good as the two. While the high downforce Audi was 20kph slower, but could catch up due to better cornering speed.
RLM constantly stated that, including talking about sector times.
Top speed itself isn't the issue when we look at Le Mans, but the Audis could lose a lot of time at Mulsanne, Indianapolis/Arnage and the Porsche Curves, which is crucial, especially in traffic.
By the way: The speed difference between the LM versions and the not-LM R18s was just as big as the difference between the same R18s and the Porsche GTE Pro. I never thought that the low-drag package would have such a huge impact.
- 10,836
- Belgium
- bramturismo
Why are we even having such a hefty discussion about this?
It's obvious that Audi's biggest worry isn't topspeed with their Le Mans package, but the overall speed of the car. And even that is to a certain extent an unknown factor since they put their most inexperienced drivers in that car. Sure, they have still some work left to do yet, but we'll find everything to be very close at Le Mans.
In raw pace, all three manufacturers will be very closely matched at Le Mans. But Spa has made it clear that Porsche will probably have to make finishing the race their goal for this year.
Even if Audi might lack some topspeed, look at Le Mans 2009. The 908 topped out at a higher speed than the R15, but neither of these cars could quite get the speeds the Lola Aston Martins were reaching on the straights. And look how little success they had at Le Mans.
Top speed means relatively little at Le Mans to some extent. You can easily make up time in S3, then there is fuel economy, overall pitstop duration, and above all reliability. Right now both Toyota's are looking to be in perfect shape for Le Mans, but I'm keeping the Audis right up there with them.
It's obvious that Audi's biggest worry isn't topspeed with their Le Mans package, but the overall speed of the car. And even that is to a certain extent an unknown factor since they put their most inexperienced drivers in that car. Sure, they have still some work left to do yet, but we'll find everything to be very close at Le Mans.
In raw pace, all three manufacturers will be very closely matched at Le Mans. But Spa has made it clear that Porsche will probably have to make finishing the race their goal for this year.
Even if Audi might lack some topspeed, look at Le Mans 2009. The 908 topped out at a higher speed than the R15, but neither of these cars could quite get the speeds the Lola Aston Martins were reaching on the straights. And look how little success they had at Le Mans.
Top speed means relatively little at Le Mans to some extent. You can easily make up time in S3, then there is fuel economy, overall pitstop duration, and above all reliability. Right now both Toyota's are looking to be in perfect shape for Le Mans, but I'm keeping the Audis right up there with them.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
No one ever said you couldn't be educated, what was said and asked is how educated are you actually to be tossing your hat in the ring. Your rhetoric challenges that of basically the engineers that build these cars, and though others do this from time to time, they usually are not so gullible with their ego to say it with absolution. I ask again what background do you have that makes you so sure in what you've stated here, what actual scientific test have you carried out that lead you think that the evidence given over a race weekend is inadmissible to the conversation over all.
Using a quick video of footage that shows no telemetry of any sort doesn't prove the number you were giving nor does it prove that come Le Mans Audi are finished. It's more ideal to say that everyone has work to do from the looks of the past couple races, Audi truly hid their cards by running high downforce on the 1 and 2 and using the most inexperienced drivers for the number 3.
As for the age portion, in many cases younger people think they know more than others that are older sometimes when they really don't. It seems to be that you think without a shadow of a doubt no one else knows what they're saying, and thus it becomes apparent if the case that the inability to have an open mind shows your age. I've shown a few things that make your ideals invalid here and this is one of them whether you think so or not. You've continually dodged the questions given.
Also this isn't off topic this is the Le Mans discussion thread we are clearly talking about Le Mans and these cars go there so can you clarify as well what exactly is off topic?
The fact that he used eye witness data as some source of measurement over the data that has already been given to him which is solid measured data. Also he doesn't seem to use the same measuring stick for the other cars and even though he seems to have misheard the commentators he doesn't want to yield and swallow the pill by saying "you know what sorry guys I misheard them on RLM, forgive me".
- 12,122
- Liverpool
- CARBOYXJR
I'm not discussing it anymore.
For the sake of it, i'm sorry, I may have misheard them on RLM. The second piece of data posted, all from the race, gives a far better overview of the race top speeds than anything else. I completely agree with it, and it does show that one Audi was able to reach a fairly high speed at one point.
For the sake of it, i'm sorry, I may have misheard them on RLM. The second piece of data posted, all from the race, gives a far better overview of the race top speeds than anything else. I completely agree with it, and it does show that one Audi was able to reach a fairly high speed at one point.
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Actually it was more along the lines that he was showing how slow the #3 car was by posting a video and quoting a time that shows the #2 car
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- HamiltonMP427
Actually it was more along the lines that he was showing how slow the #3 car was by posting a video and quoting a time that shows the #2 car
Oh I saw that but I didn't want to outright embarrass him, now you have
- 7,177
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- FLAT_TWELVE
Move on I say ...
Fantastic race, can't wait for Le Mans. Porsche needs to last the distance, Toyota needs luck and speed to counter Audi's experience. Audi probably needs Porsche and Toyota to hit trouble, but maybe I'm wrong. It's bloody close and I'm as pumped up for this Clash of the Titans as any endurance fan should be.
Bring on Le Mans! 👍
Fantastic race, can't wait for Le Mans. Porsche needs to last the distance, Toyota needs luck and speed to counter Audi's experience. Audi probably needs Porsche and Toyota to hit trouble, but maybe I'm wrong. It's bloody close and I'm as pumped up for this Clash of the Titans as any endurance fan should be.
Bring on Le Mans! 👍
- 151
- NRW
Here are some pictures from Saturday, it was awesome 👍
FIA_WEC_328 von MarMirZ auf Flickr
DSC_0710 von MarMirZ auf Flickr
FIA_WEC_175 von MarMirZ auf Flickr
FIA_WEC_174 von MarMirZ auf Flickr
FIA_WEC_380 von MarMirZ auf Flickr
FIA_WEC_264 von MarMirZ auf Flickr
It is very hard to take pictures of the Audi LMP, you almost can´t hear it coming!
The car is ridiculous quiet.
FIA_WEC_328 von MarMirZ auf Flickr
DSC_0710 von MarMirZ auf Flickr
FIA_WEC_175 von MarMirZ auf Flickr
FIA_WEC_174 von MarMirZ auf Flickr
FIA_WEC_380 von MarMirZ auf Flickr
FIA_WEC_264 von MarMirZ auf Flickr
It is very hard to take pictures of the Audi LMP, you almost can´t hear it coming!
The car is ridiculous quiet.
Tired Tyres
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- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
Not very easy to take good pictures of racing cars at speed. Excellent work. 👍
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- GTP_daan
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- S. Shields
Busy watching the final hour of the 6hrs of Silverstone that was uploaded to YouTube in 3 parts (Radio Le Mans provides the commentary). I watched a lot of the last 3 hours of the Spa race on EurosportPlayer too. Though I will probably see all three parts of Spa over the coming days/weeks and I must say I am very impressed by what I saw in my first year properly following the WEC. I hope for more of the same in future events this year.
I like the Toyota Racing team (mainly for Anthony Davidson being a British driver) in LMP1 but support both AF Corse and Aston Martin Racing in the GT's which is my main focus since I also like the GT Open, Blancpain GT Series and British GT Championship.
I like the Toyota Racing team (mainly for Anthony Davidson being a British driver) in LMP1 but support both AF Corse and Aston Martin Racing in the GT's which is my main focus since I also like the GT Open, Blancpain GT Series and British GT Championship.
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- TRAPPIST-1g
- ProjectWHaT
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- FLAT_TWELVE
WHaT?
- 15,397
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username, daans post......
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I'm Holden onto the hope that he gets what daan meant.
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Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd the lightbulb turns on. 💡
- 5,551
- Controls set for heart of sun
- GTP_RogerTheHors
No more puns. More Le Mans discussion.
I'm worried by the Madoka's apparent lack of pace. I'll always support Rebellion as they're the underdog, but I sincerely hope that they have an upturn in form come June.
I'm worried by the Madoka's apparent lack of pace. I'll always support Rebellion as they're the underdog, but I sincerely hope that they have an upturn in form come June.
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I'm sure they will do, can't expect them to be running as they did with the lolas on their first outing
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Can't wait for Le Mans!!! My first as a proper fan of endurance racing. I also like the ELMS so I will be spoiled for choice.
I still think the Audi of di Grassi/Duval/Kristensen will win with one of the Toyota's 2nd and the Treluyer/Lotterers/Fassler in 3rd.
I still think the Audi of di Grassi/Duval/Kristensen will win with one of the Toyota's 2nd and the Treluyer/Lotterers/Fassler in 3rd.
Tired Tyres
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Really? I don't see an Audi finishing the race given how easily damaged they got at Silverstone. I don't trust their drivers not to throw it at the scenery at some point.
Also I think they have cocked up with a 2MJ choice and don't have the pace of the other two.
I suspect Porsche have built a car specifically for Le Mans rather than the WEC so they will be fast but if they keep breaking dampers when they ride kerbs then they won't win either.
That leaves Toyota. I think the Davidson, Lapierre and Buemi combination that has won the first two races will complete the hat trick at Le Mans.
Also I think they have cocked up with a 2MJ choice and don't have the pace of the other two.
I suspect Porsche have built a car specifically for Le Mans rather than the WEC so they will be fast but if they keep breaking dampers when they ride kerbs then they won't win either.
That leaves Toyota. I think the Davidson, Lapierre and Buemi combination that has won the first two races will complete the hat trick at Le Mans.
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- GTP_RogerTheHors
Eh... I feel Toyota are the favourites, and last year I would have been delighted had they came out on top; but now with Porsche racing I'm less inclined in their direction, however I have serious doubts about whether the Porsches can make it to the end. Audi are a bit harder to work out, they don't look like they'll be massively fast, but as long as they keep it out of the wall I have little reason to doubt that they can challenge for victory. Otherwise in LMP1 there's Lotus and Madoka, with one an unknown quantity and the other looking set to pick up any places lost by the manufacturers to whatever problems they may run into. Assuming they can finish themselves. Indeed, I expect the focus of the private teams to be on finishing more than it has been for the past few runnings.
LMP2 could go to anyone. If Dome deliver, Strakka, otherwise... There are honestly too many teams for me to really be able to support anyone
GTE is likely to produce high passions this year, and, while I would like to see Aston Martin win, I feel that 2014 will be a race between Porsche and Ferrari, but it's honestly hard to tell.
So. Close everywhere. Sounds good to me.
LMP2 could go to anyone. If Dome deliver, Strakka, otherwise... There are honestly too many teams for me to really be able to support anyone
GTE is likely to produce high passions this year, and, while I would like to see Aston Martin win, I feel that 2014 will be a race between Porsche and Ferrari, but it's honestly hard to tell.
So. Close everywhere. Sounds good to me.
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